Please help - camera with more optical zoom

[rhythmicdias]

Hi:

I searched this forum for threads which might have answered my questions in mind. One similar I got but not exact. So, I'm asking this, I need a canon camera (might consider other brands also if what I need is found in them too) which has the following:
1) Most important is optical zoom (at least 6+ higher is better), as I like outdoor animal photography (no indoor animals pls..;) ), flowers, bugs, etc.
2) Manual controls: Minimum manual controls like changing the shutter speed, ISO, manual focusing, etc., (like the ones in PowerShot A510, which I had earlier, unfortunately got stolen :cry: ).
3) IS: Stabilizer is must with longer zoom, right??
4) 3MP: Least 3 MP as I do not have plans for bigger prints.

MY KNOWLEDGE AND RESEARCH:
I looked at the PowerShotS1 IS and very much liked the features it has. But, my further search resulted that it has common problems of not being able to focus after some time of use (may be after 1 year, as I read it in most of the reviews), flash problem, and most commonly encountered CCD problem along with E8 errors. I have an offer on PowerShot S1 IS locally who is offering it with 1gb CF card for $295 (Rs. 13,900, as I'm in India). Is this a good camera for this price, is this a good deal. Would you pls throw some light on this model's pros and cons and tell me if it is worth investing on this so called out dated model?? or I should consider some other. (For anyone Indian: Please give me the price of PowerShotS2 in India).
Please give me some more options with the features as mentioned above. Any input in this regard will be helpful. And pls post replies at the earliest as within 2-3 days I need to buy a camera as I am going to my native place.

[SaNdMaN82]

the s1 was a great cam, but now, i'd not recommend to get an s1... there are newer models, and of course, improvements...

you could get an s2 or s3... the s2 is a year old, and the s3 only a few months... the s2 and s3 are basically the same, just sone minor changes (soft mainly), but overall, they both have the same spects...

both have 12x, IS, and full manual mode (manual focus, macro, super macro, iso, shutter, apperture, and more)...

i think you'll more than pleased with any of them ;)

[sonnyJ]

why not go SLR and pick any zoom len or lenses with the zoom you want

[Fureinku]

1st off a 12x zoom does not always have a further focal length of a 10x zoom

Long end / by Short end = Zoom factor

s2/s3 IS 12x zoom 6mm-72mm 72/6=12

Kodak v610 10x zoom 38mm-380mm 380/38=10

you want to look for the long end focal length, not zoom factor if what you want is a long fixed lens camera

[eccles]

@Fureinku, you're right but it's not that simple. The S3's sensor is much smaller than a DSLR therefore the 72mm focal length is actually quite high, equivalent to 432mm on a 35mm camera.

[DavidW]

As eccles notes, Fureinku seems to have compared full frame equivalent focal lengths for the Kodak against true focal lengths for the Canon.

The number of 'times' zoom is purely a marketing thing, as it's the focal length at the long end of the lens divided by the short end. My EF 16-35mm f/2.8L is a 2.25x zoom and my EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS is a 2.85x zoom. Neither of the "times" figures tells you anything about how to compare these lenses to each other, let alone other lenses and other cameras.

The usual way comparisons are done is to talk about "full frame equivalent" focal lengths - that's the focal length of lens that you'd need to get the same field of view on a 35mm SLR camera. It's not completely equivalent - many properties of the image relate to the true focal length of the lens, but the field of view is the same.

As eccles says, the S2 and S3 are 36-432mm full frame equivalent.


To the original poster - I'd also suggest steering clear of the S1 IS. It was a great camera in its day, but it has been overtaken in various ways. An S2 IS or S3 IS would be a better buy. The S3 IS was a relatively modest upgrade from the S2 IS, so if you can find an S2 IS in acceptable condition at a price you're happy with, that would be a great buy.



David

[Woogie]

+1 on the S2/S3 IS. I gave my mom the S2 IS and she loves it. I've tried other cameras with some power to reach, but they are all definitely begging for the Image Stablization.

[Canon Guy]

You probably won't find much in the 3mp range any more. You might want to consider an S3 IS (6mp, 12x zoom) or A710 IS (7.1mp, 6x zoom) both of which appear to fit your list.

[rhythmicdias]

Thanks to you all for helping me decide. Here is what I'm planning now: For this immediate need, I'm going for Fuji FinePix S3500 (2004 release) with 4MP and 6x optical, and I have enquired the price (street) for S3 IS which I'm hoping to buy during year end (where I might get some Christmas discount). I guess this sounds better.

Regards
______________
A510 (once upon a time)..

[RadAL]

Canon G series, same as the A series (more or less) but with a bigger Optical zoom

[rhythmicdias]

Due to budget constraints, I went for a Fuji FinePix S3500 which my uncle had to offer me, which he had not been using for months. I noticed to problems with the camera, very poor focussing in daylight while taking indoor photos and once the focus is locked the frame gets fozen on the display and shows object in the state it was focus locked but does not show the current state of the object. I have returned it to him asking him to service it and return to me. Now, is there anyone who knows of this kind of problem. This camera was supposed to be good as I read the reviews all grading this with positive grades.

Any help is highly appreciated.

Thanks

regards

[ib2loud]

I have a S1 IS, have used it for a few years now and over 300k shots, and it works great for me still. I upgraded to the S3 IS but I still keep the S1 sitting on the desk for quick shots of the cats or something

[rhythmicdias]

Hi:

I know that (s1 IS) is a great camera. I had an offer here, but the price was rather high for that (so called outdated model). Do you have plans to offer it to me (or gift me!!, as I'm out of my budget!!)??? Where do you live? I'm in India.

I heard that after year or two, S1 IS performs poorer with lack of ability to focus. Is this info I have is true or just worng. How does you S1 IS perform right now? Is it the same as it used to be on the first shot?

Regards
Steve

[ssd]

My opinion is to go for S3 (price today Rs. 19500). Few weeks back S2 was at Rs. 17200 but it may not be available currently.

[ib2loud]

Hi:

I know that (s1 IS) is a great camera. I had an offer here, but the price was rather high for that (so called outdated model). Do you have plans to offer it to me (or gift me!!, as I'm out of my budget!!)??? Where do you live? I'm in India.

I heard that after year or two, S1 IS performs poorer with lack of ability to focus. Is this info I have is true or just worng. How does you S1 IS perform right now? Is it the same as it used to be on the first shot?

Regards
Steve


my S1 works just like it did when i got it, other than sometimes the flash won't pop up without a little tug. I actually got it on ebay refurbished not long after they debuted. I probably won't sell it because my father-in-law keeps eyeballing it and I may make a trade on it for his blazer (it's a very old blazer)

[rhythmicdias]

@ssd: I guess that must be stree price, right??

@ib2loud: that sounds good. But most of the reviews I have read point me out that over a period of time, focussing becomes a problem. That may be in some cameras>>??? maybe???

[ib2loud]

i'm sure it is a problem, probably more-so with cameras that haven't been well taken care of

I like the S3 a lot more because it is faster and the photos have a more "slr" like feel to them (seems to work the aperture better than the S1)

if you really want a good camera, i would save up and buy something newer unless you're just getting a flat out bargain on an older model

[rhythmicdias]

Exactly... so, untill I have a built a stable budget, I'm gonna go with FinePix S3500 for now if the problems resolves. If you konw of any of your friends using this model pls confirm if this camera has such problems i mentioned in this thread...

Regards

[Bob_A]

Fuji make some excellent P&S cameras. If you're looking for reviews go to dpreview.com. You can even do side by side comparisons of all of the point and shoots in your price range.

[rhythmicdias]

Hi Bob:

I'm already a quite old fan of dpreview.com and I read all the opinions about this S3500 among which 97% was positive. My uncle (a pro) had to offer me this camera at a reasonable price so I considered this due to my budget. But within a day or 2 I noted the problems and (what seems to me is) shutter lag problem. I do not know how to explain it. I will try to explain here so you get a clear idea of this problem and help me out if at all possible.

The shutter lag problem that I'm facing is that: I compose a frame of a dog whose face is turned to the right and I half-press the shutter button, focus is done. My LCD displays the image with the dog's face to the right and then I fully press the shutter button, and still my display shows the dog's face to the right... click.... photo taken....but image caputered is different than what I have framed. The dog had moved its face to the left and the output shows the dog facing left. What I'm tying to explain is, the LCD shows the state of the object when it was focussed and it does not show even it has actually moved from that position to a different and this becomes evident only after I had taken the shot....

Guess I could convey you what I meant.... so, if you understood that this means, please let me know what this problem is and any solution for this...

Regards

[Bob_A]

Most P&S cameras have a lot of shutter lag compared to a DSLR where there is essentially none at all. Unfortunately I noticed on dpreview the side by side comparison doesn't show the half press/full press lag, which is probably what you are looking for.

One question though. Are you half pressing to lock exposure and focus first, then experiencing a long lag from half press to full press ... or are you jamming the shutter button and just seeing a long lag during a full press of the button? I've played around with some of the more compact Fuji's but don't know anything about the S3500, so I'm just curious.

[rhythmicdias]

Thanks for tying to help me out. I think i did not convey you what I exactly meant or ?? Let me give it a try again. I was shooting a bird that is just about to take off and I half pressed the shutter button to focus. A green square showed on my display meaning the camera has focused. Then, I pressed down the shutter button completely to take the shot of the bird that was about to take off. My camera took the photo and the playback showed everthing in the frame but no bird. What had happened in the due course of pressing the shutter down was that the bird had taken off, but the display had shown me a frozen image of when the camera had focussed on the bird and not the actual state of the bird(change in the position). Image captured was the current state. I have created this scenario in MS Paint to help better understand this problem, pls see below:
http://www.freewebs.com/videodias/s3500_problem.JPG

[Pixel9ine]

rhythmicdias, I truly admire your resourcefulness in clearly describing your problem. I, too, have had to "MS Paint" my point across on occaision..

Now, on to your problem. What you're experiencing is "shutter lag". Essentially, it is the period of latency between the time you press the shutter and the time the photo is taken. Although there are ways to decrease shutter lag, it is a part of using a compact digital camera (such as any PowerShot camera, including the S1/S2/S3)... there is no way around it. However, there are things you can do to minimize the effects.

Shutter lag is due to several factors, working together against you: (1) a compact digital relies on a continuously-exposed CCD image sensor to give you a "live" preview. However, this image suffers from lag due to the camera's throughput limitations. Hence, the image that you see on the viewfinder is delayed by several fractions of a second. (2) When you half-press the shutter button, the camera also selects the focus point based on the CCD sensor, a process which is neither precise nor fast. (3) Finally, the camera evaluates the scene and the focus point, again using the CCD, and meters for the aperture and shutter speed to be used.

So, as you press the shutter button expecting an image to be recorded, the camera has to complete steps (2) and (3) before an image can be captured. This often takes too long, and as you experienced, the shot is lost. You can alleviate the situation by either focusing manually (or locking AF beforehand by switching to manual), and also by using a Manual shooting mode. Setting the focus, aperture and shutter speed yourself allows the camera to react more quickly to the shutter button, since there is less "thinking" for the camera to do.

That being said, I have to say from experience that the S3IS' viewfinder has a faster refresh rate and a phenominally quicker shutter response time than my A95 does. It might just be quick enough for you to comfortably use.

However, the only "true" solution to shutter lag is to use a digital SLR, where you are not relying on a continuously-exposed CCD for composition, metering, and autofocus. The light meter is independant as are the AF sensors.. and composition is done directly Through The Lens, were there is absolutely no lag.

The only downside is, of course, the financiaL expense involved.

Hope this helps

[rhythmicdias]

Thanks a lot for explaining what it is that I'm facing. I was familiar to shutter lag, but when I compare the shutter lag between this S3500 and canon A510 (which I had earlier), the S3500 is a super master in shutter lag. I mean the shutter lag on S3500 is 10 times greater than A510. I really wonder this camera was released with such a horrible shutter lag time... I think S3500 is not worth having. I'm considering S3 IS, but of course, finance is a problem for me... better start saving..

regards