Some radom thoughts/questions from weekend shoot

[CatchingUp]

Hi

I'd be interested in hearing some input/discussion from anyone that is willing.

Some friends asked me to shoot their daughters wedding this weekend and I was fine and comfortable doing so. As a former minister, it was interesting being on this side of the coin for a change, being the one taking the pictures instead of doing the ceremony. :-)

I used to do a lot of photography years ago and recently got back into it with much to learn about the digital revolution-hence my name: "catching up".

I've been reading here a lot and after my first full weekend of being Mr. Photographer for a wedding, I made note of various items and such regarding doing these. Kind of a mixed bag I suppose. But here are some of my observations/questions:

1- When do you NOT use a defuser for your flash?

2- Buildings where the ceremony is held vary, of course. But what do you do when you have really boring, blank white walls, like for the reception? I was disappointed with my cutting the cake and sipping champagne shots as the location of the treats left no other choice for poses.

3- When you page through a B&G magazine, or even on sites like this for 'ideas', I notice you see some great shots that were more than likley 'modeled' for such magazines. ---But given the time frame of a 'normal wedding' and the added stress on the couples and demands to be everywhere, how realistic is it to think you are going to get that 'special shot' of the B&G standing in that perfect location with perfect lighting and all...when people are waiting on them to eat and greet?

4- Fun part with digital is the number of shots you can take without "wasting film." But what is the realistic number of proofs to show the family/couple so they are not overwhelmed with hundreds of shots to choose from? For me, this was a 'special case favor in return' so I am going to provide them the disc to print what they want, but still...do I want to burden them with so many selections?

5- How often is the photographer in normal arrangements asked to show up at the salon and take random shots of the bridal party getting the hair and nails done? :confused:

Overall, I was happy with what I got and I think the couple/family will be more than pleased. But it certainly was a learning experience for sure and one that I think will obviously better prepre me if/when the next one comes around.

Thanks for any input.

[jillybean]

#1- I only diffuse my flash on close ups
#2- I hate reception shots-having said that you can only do the best with what enviroment is presented
#3- I can usually get the B&G to do pictures BEFORE the wedding- give more time for those creative moments
#4- I provide 150-200 proofs
#5- I personally do not do the 'salon' but my pricing is structured that way.
#5

[RachaelSilvers]

First off, hello and welcome back to photography!

1. I try and use natural light as much as possible. When I do use my flash I almost ALWAYS bounce and I ALWAYS use a diffuser. The only times I do not bounce are if I am outside and need a fill or if I am on a second story at a reception shooting down onto a dance floor with low lighting.
2. While venues do add a lot to the ambiance, having a blank or even boring canvas just inspires me to get more creative with my shots and angles. If the cake cutting doesn't have an interesting background, I get in tighter to the couple. I typically frame my shot so it's all about the couple and the cake anyways. A white wall would just encourage me to choose another angle, either crouch down low and shoot up at them with the cake closer to the foreground or climb on a chair and shoot down at them.
3. This is where you step in as a pro. It's up to you to suggest a timeframe for the day and build in some time to allow you to capture a few incredible moments with the bride and groom and their family and wedding party. Even when I have the ceremony and reception at the same location, I make sure when the client interviews me (and vice versa) that we allow for 15-20 minutes immediately after the ceremony for the more trad'l photos.
4. Very good question! I am leary of sending a client into sensory overload. I have seen an increase in my output b/c of my switch to digital. My associate shooters also are shooting digital and it's very easy for us to overshoot an event. We do edit as we go to cut down on duplicate shots. I am trying to keep the proofs at 800-1000 images after my edit. (I shot solo on Saturday and I have 1,494, eek!)
5. My style is primarily photojournalistic, yet I do a short list of formal photos as well b/c they still tell an important part of the story. I almost ALWAYS start with the bride during the getting ready phase, though the location varies from salon to hotel to brides home to church etc. Again this is where you can step in and help with the timeline of the day.

[Phil V]

1- When using fill outside, otherwise its diffused, bounced or both. Take this with a pinch of salt - I'm more an available light shooter.

2- The worst thing is when the cakes been positioned in a corner of an ugly venue. Try to get it moved to make life easier. Also, get in close and shoot from a different angle to try to eliminate the background. Also a time to forget dragging the shutter, see there sometimes is a point in not allowing that ambient light in for 'balance'.

3- If you're after shooting that type of shot YOU have to ensure that the time and venue are available. Personally it's not really my style, but I have been known to go off to shoot this type of thing.

4- This is entirely dependant on your style. But personally I never show duplicate images, it's asking for trouble. Also if I shoot a bunch of slight variations I'll only show them all only if I think that they'd make a set in the album, otherwise I pick my favourite.

5- I offer this as I like to do it, might not get too many shots but it helps the bride etc get comfortable with me being there ALL the time.

[Grace]

First off, hello and welcome back to photography!

1. I try and use natural light as much as possible. When I do use my flash I almost ALWAYS bounce and I ALWAYS use a diffuser. The only times I do not bounce are if I am outside and need a fill or if I am on a second story at a reception shooting down onto a dance floor with low lighting.
2. While venues do add a lot to the ambiance, having a blank or even boring canvas just inspires me to get more creative with my shots and angles. If the cake cutting doesn't have an interesting background, I get in tighter to the couple. I typically frame my shot so it's all about the couple and the cake anyways. A white wall would just encourage me to choose another angle, either crouch down low and shoot up at them with the cake closer to the foreground or climb on a chair and shoot down at them.
3. This is where you step in as a pro. It's up to you to suggest a timeframe for the day and build in some time to allow you to capture a few incredible moments with the bride and groom and their family and wedding party. Even when I have the ceremony and reception at the same location, I make sure when the client interviews me (and vice versa) that we allow for 15-20 minutes immediately after the ceremony for the more trad'l photos.
4. Very good question! I am leary of sending a client into sensory overload. I have seen an increase in my output b/c of my switch to digital. My associate shooters also are shooting digital and it's very easy for us to overshoot an event. We do edit as we go to cut down on duplicate shots. I am trying to keep the proofs at 800-1000 images after my edit. (I shot solo on Saturday and I have 1,494, eek!)
5. My style is primarily photojournalistic, yet I do a short list of formal photos as well b/c they still tell an important part of the story. I almost ALWAYS start with the bride during the getting ready phase, though the location varies from salon to hotel to brides home to church etc. Again this is where you can step in and help with the timeline of the day.

holy cow! that is a boat load of images! you edit THAT many................wow.
IMO that would be a little overwhelming to decide on. But good for you, that could just mean more sales :)

kathy

[RachaelSilvers]

holy cow! that is a boat load of images! you edit THAT many................wow.
IMO that would be a little overwhelming to decide on. But good for you, that could just mean more sales :)

kathy

Yeah it's a lot of editing but as for the PP, batch processing and not a lot of tweaks. My style is how I shoot it, clear, pure and simple. No special effects.

To clarify the 800-1000 are the proof images which I have my lab print one of each at a 4x6 size and I put into a set of proof albums, and all of them go online for web viewing and ordering.

if the clients want a final album they choose anywhere from 40-150 depending on the size/style of the album they select.

Clients hire me for my style, PJ, and I tend to document the day and 800-100 gives them a clear representation, imo.

Personally on the flip side, I would never be able to narrow it down to 200 :) There's too much going on and too much to show!

[Padawan Dad]

Yeah it's a lot of editing but as for the PP, batch processing and not a lot of tweaks. My style is how I shoot it, clear, pure and simple. No special effects.

To clarify the 800-1000 are the proof images which I have my lab print one of each at a 4x6 size and I put into a set of proof albums, and all of them go online for web viewing and ordering.

if the clients want a final album they choose anywhere from 40-150 depending on the size/style of the album they select.

Clients hire me for my style, PJ, and I tend to document the day and 800-100 gives them a clear representation, imo.

Personally on the flip side, I would never be able to narrow it down to 200 :) There's too much going on and too much to show!

Although, I do keep my final proofs down to about 300-400 4x6's, I tend to agree with Rachael regarding "There's too much going on" to keep it at a low number. I do see alot of photographers offering under 200 proofs to clients, and wonder how they got a good representation of the wedding for the couple.

I tend to think that wedding photographers are leaning far too much towards the art (for the photographers sake,) rather than capturing the day for the B&G's sake... thus, less images.

This is just a humble observation. No offense is meant by it to anyone.

[Grace]

Oh, I definitly think to each their own, and if that many works for you great! I wasn't at all trying to judge, nor did I give what "I" thought was the correct number of proofs...:)
just making an observation.

Happy shooting, and I missed the posts amount earlier..... Welcome to POTN, I really am the sweetest person here :)

[Grace]

back to original post:

I think you have several opinions on how many proofs.
I always bounce or difuse flash also.
I have been asked to show up for the getting ready for every wedding. In fact, i like to be there! Thats when the girls are cuttin loose and havin fun!

and welcome back to you too! Digital is way more fun :) I think ;)

kp

[tim]

1 - I rarely bother, I bounce more, often off walls.
2 - They choose the location, I shoot it.
3 - Some people want to spend the time, others don't. You go with what the customer wants.
4 - I shoot about 100 images per hour, and show around 30-50 of them, depending on the couple. 400 absolute max, 250-300 is better for me.
5 - Ask the customer. I do those shots maybe 60% of the time.

[CatchingUp]

I tend to think that wedding photographers are leaning far too much towards the art (for the photographers sake,) rather than capturing the day for the B&G's sake... thus, less images.
This is just a humble observation. No offense is meant by it to anyone.

Wow!

Bill...that is one of the more candidly refreshingly statements I have read on this site. Thank you for expressing that. :-) It really, really, really helps put some things back in perspective for me. BIG SMILE

I love the artistic shots. I strive to capture them myself in various settings. But having just got off that merry-go-round-whirlwind-of-a-weekend, I am able to see how the couple/family aren't really looking for magazine cover shots. They want all the traditional shots with family and friends. And anything beyond that is icing on the cake.

Granted, After only one wedding (as a photographer) I can certainly see why you'd want to try different things. Those ceremonies/celebrations can get redundant quickly. :-)

[Padawan Dad]

1. 99% of the time I DO NOT diffuse. I bounce as much as possible.

2. I work with where I am asked to be. I work hard to make a shot as interesting as possible. The couple picks the facility, they are aware that I can't do much to make the atmosphere "more appealing." It is what it is.

3. Bridal magazine shots take hours of preperation! They have seen your portfolio, they know what you are capable of shooting... do they (can they) want to invest the time? It's their choice.

4. I shoot approximately 900-1000 shots. I narrow it down to 250-450 shots for the couple, depending on the package and length of the wedding. Takes me about 2 hours to sift through 1000 shots and select the proofs.

5. I have never been asked to show up at a salon. However, I have shot the wedding party getting their hair done at the brides/brides mothers home. Most salons in my area regularly do house calls for wedding parties.

[CatchingUp]

Ooops...sorry...had "jim'' on my mind when I posted that earlier. Bill is the correct name, I see. :-)

[Scott_Quier]

1 - I rarely bother, I bounce more, often off walls.
Tim,

How do you handle places where the walls are either beige or some off green color?

I was the secondary at one reception where neither the walls nor the ceiling was anthing close to white and they weren't the same color. I managed, but ...

My first where I was primary had some off white ceilings, but the walls were even worse.

Any advice you would care to give will be greatly appreciated.

TIA

[Phil V]

I tend to think that wedding photographers are leaning far too much towards the art (for the photographers sake,) rather than capturing the day for the B&G's sake... thus, less images.

This is just a humble observation. No offense is meant by it to anyone.

I'm sorry Bill, that's a gross generalisation. 1stly Photographers that are leaning towards the art have portfolio's full of the stuff, so presumably that's why the B&G pick them?

2ndly There are loads of shooters out there who's aim is not the same as yours and mine 'to capture the story of their day'. They may wish to create anything from a few formal portraits (a record of the attendees) to a full blown fantasy photo shoot (fashion / studio extravaganza), or anything in between (or to the left or right of). The style of the shoot will dictate the number of acceptable images.

[xandria]

1- When do you NOT use a defuser for your flash?
I usually always use a diffuser when I have to use flash. I prefer natural light.

2- Buildings where the ceremony is held vary, of course. But what do you do when you have really boring, blank white walls, like for the reception? I was disappointed with my cutting the cake and sipping champagne shots as the location of the treats left no other choice for poses.
I treat it like a studio shot - - I view the background as just that - a background/backdrop. Focus on the main subject and challenge yourself to make it look like a product shot.....

3- When you page through a B&G magazine, or even on sites like this for 'ideas', I notice you see some great shots that were more than likley 'modeled' for such magazines. ---But given the time frame of a 'normal wedding' and the added stress on the couples and demands to be everywhere, how realistic is it to think you are going to get that 'special shot' of the B&G standing in that perfect location with perfect lighting and all...when people are waiting on them to eat and greet?
You would be surprised at how little time it takes to create a great "candid pose" that might look as if it could be featured in a magazine ad. Even though things may seem like they are insane and rushed - - remember that this is it, you have this one chance to get that shot. Take the 15-30 minutes you need to get it. EVERYone will be pulling the B&G away, but if it's important for them to have a few posed/candid posed shots, then make sure you get them. In most cases the B&G won't mind doing this and often the rest of the wedding party will wait at the venue for them to finish.

4- Fun part with digital is the number of shots you can take without "wasting film." But what is the realistic number of proofs to show the family/couple so they are not overwhelmed with hundreds of shots to choose from? For me, this was a 'special case favor in return' so I am going to provide them the disc to print what they want, but still...do I want to burden them with so many selections?
Don't include duplicate shots - there may be very slight differences, but choose the best of the bunch and get rid of the others. Look at the shots with these criteria: 1) Is it a great photo on it's own, 2) Would it have sentimental value to the B&G/family, 3) Would you want it if you were the B&G/family? 1,000 pictures can be overwhelming - - have you ever seen a stack of 1,000 prints? Almost 8" high - - that is too many, imho. Give them a nice representation of the day/event and the special little moments you were able to capture. 40-80 shots per hour is my guideline.

5- How often is the photographer in normal arrangements asked to show up at the salon and take random shots of the bridal party getting the hair and nails done? :confused:
Depends on what the bride wants. It's becoming more popular & I personally like doing it. You'll have to ask the bride if she wants you there.

[CatchingUp]

Don't include duplicate shots - there may be very slight differences, but choose the best of the bunch and get rid of the others. Look at the shots with these criteria: 1) Is it a great photo on it's own, 2) Would it have sentimental value to the B&G/family, 3) Would you want it if you were the B&G/family? 1,000 pictures can be overwhelming - - have you ever seen a stack of 1,000 prints? Almost 8" high - - that is too many, imho. Give them a nice representation of the day/event and the special little moments you were able to capture

Good points...well taken.

I appreciate the feedback. Very insightful for sure.

[RachaelSilvers]

Keep in mind this forum had participants from different regions and countries. You should check with you market and you competition before you decide ultimately how many photos to include.

I know some folks are overwhelmed that I end up with 800-1000, but that's the market I am in that's akin to what my competition delivers.

It wouldn't seem fair for you to pare them down to 250 images when you comepetition delivers 600 or vice versa, you offering 1000 when your comeptition only offers 500.

HTH!