Advancement

[kahfluie]

I've been coming to these boards since I got my 10D back in June. Since then I have been able to read some valuable information and tips. Keep them coming! I have now come to a point where I find myself "looking" for subjects or things to take a picture of. Most of what I've done recently I find to be rather boring... perhaps taking the shot just to use the camera. So, now I come with a few questions that hopefully you all can help with... especially the pros.

I recently sent a letter to my local newspaper's chief photographer asking how/where to submit photos of potentially newsworthy photos. He graciously responded informing me that because I am an amateur. my photos would not be accepted. Of course I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of the response.

So, how do I get the experience needed to be able to get great photos. I've thought about going to a couple of photographers in the area and asking them if I could help them or shadow them so that I can learn more about photography, and how to approach subjects. Is this a good idea, or will I be turned away? I feel that my strong points come from concert photography. I'd like to learn and do different ideas. I've read where folks will aproach complete strangers about taking their photos either right there, or at a time convenieint for both parties. How do you all do that - what do you say, is there paperwork involved, etc.

I was also wondering if people here can share how they started and what level their at now. How can someone like me better myself with the camera... enough that I can begin doing "freelance" work - eventually working with another photographer in a studio, etc? Am I being off the wall here with my thoughts?

Bottom line... I want to get better at taking photos, and I want to learn what needs to be learned in order to do the right things.

Any help anyone can give me and others here would be greatly appreciated.

Lou

[Derek Smith]

On the rockwell scale I am at Level 6 - Whore , with touches of levels 5, 4 and 3.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

You want to become a pro photographer - first ask yourself why. If you still want to, then start by taking pictures - lots of them. compare them with those taken by people in the arena you want to inhabit.

Consider their photos, ask yourself how you would have created that shot. Go out and try to recreate it for yourself. When you fail, analyse why you failed and think about what you would have had to have done to have not failed. Then try again, ask lots of questions, copy other peoples techniques, and keep trying untill your photos are MUCH better than those you are trying to emulate.

Then stop.

Ask yourself again if you still want to become a Level 6 Whore or if you actually just want to enjoy your skills and go to levels 2 or even 7.

If you still want to sell your skills, take many more photos, this time ones your think are good, create an album and start hawking them to the people you want to work for. When you fail, consider selling your body for sex or perhaps stacking the shelves in Tesco's, they will be easier.

If you still want to go this way, remember to think ahead. What pictures sell, why did they sell, why is that not one of your pictures, what will you have to do for it to become one of your pictures.

You have to be driven to become to photographer especially at level 6. All the 'how to's are detailed on sites like this arround the web. Read a lot, practice more, and think - "I can do that" and just keep going for the place you want to be.

And then, when you get there, like in all the good story books - you die

The End

by Derek

[msnow]

Sort of off topic but this "rockewell" guy, after reading the info in the link you provided, has some serious self image and envy issues.

[RichardtheSane]

kahfluie, I think you sent your letter to the wrong person. The chief photographer for the local paper may not like the idea of a new photog stepping on his toes, so has given you the polite version.

Try contacting the editor of the paper instead, and have a few samples of your work available either online or by sending some prints. The editor is looking for the bes and most varied content for his/her paper so if you are able to offer a different style or something his current photo team don't have then you are onto a winner.

Good luck

[robertwgross]

Yes, the editor is one way to get attention. Shoot some local event that the real photographer does not care to shoot. Show the news people your work. It can't hurt, but be prepared to accept some initial rejection.

Each year on New Years Day, my outdoor club does a "Hangover Hike" beginning at 8 a.m. I've been out there to shoot the group starting off and along the way. Very few news photographers will cover that. Oddly enough, to my surprise, one year the newpaper sent a reporter and a photographer to cover the event. The photographer never made it out of the parking lot. He whipped out his Canon 1DS, snapped one, and then headed back to the shop.

Canon, naturally.

---Bob Gross---

[GenEOS]

The photogs that you will be competing with for income, will be very unwilling to help you out. I can offer a little advice.

Put together a portfolio. Try to include a shot or two of varying subject matter. Include some shots of people and kids. You want the portfolio to show you are competant, not to show an example of every type of photo. I would suggest about 12-20 very good images, in a simple folio that is easily flipped through. You could put a copy of these images on a cd, someone wants to keep a set to show someone else at the paper.

Next, gather a list of all the papers in your area. Including weekly papers and in some cases monthly papers. If there are any magazines in the local area, get info on them too.

Contact the "editor" or in some cases the "owner" of these papers. You will probably have to sell yourself on the phone to them. Be honest. Tell them you are a photographer looking to gain some experience in news photography. Ask if they need any "stringers" (freelance photogs) for news or sports assignemts. Tell them you are willing to shoot anything.

With a little luck, a good attitude and sales pitch, you will get a taker. Your best luck is going to be with a local weekly paper, but if you approach the right person at the right time, you may fall into a better opportunity.

The key is letting them know you are willing to take ANY assignment. Every paper has a problem getting someone to photograph something. Don't be surprised if that is the job you get first.

In weekly papers you most likely will not be working for a "chief" phtographer or photo department. You will be working for the editor to get art for specific stories or games they need photos for. This is a good thing.

I guess the most important thing is to be professional and honest with them. The most valuable thing you will get from them is experience. You will find, quickly, that you are not going to get rich, but making a small income on your photos is fun.

The work I do for the local papers is what I like to call paid volunteering. I do not rely on photography as a main income, thank God. I enjoy taking assignments and the pressure of getting the shots they need. Assignements will challenge you.

Pay: More than likely you will ave to sign a contract as an "independent contractor", in most cases, you will be paid either per assignment, or per photo they run. You want to retain your copyright, so don't sign it away. You will, however be granting a release to the paper to run and in a lot of cases re-sell your work, you shot for them & turn in.. Depends on the contract.

Ask up front about accepted file types and sizes. Ask how many shots they want submitted per shoot.

You will learn a lot about the business by getting in with a small paper. You will also get some perks from the job also. Most papers get passes to events, plays, concerts, etc.. etc.. that's worth something.

Let us know what happens.

[GenEOS]

robertwgross wrote:
Yes, the editor is one way to get attention. Shoot some local event that the real photographer does not care to shoot. Show the news people your work. It can't hurt, but be prepared to accept some initial rejection.

Each year on New Years Day, my outdoor club does a "Hangover Hike" beginning at 8 a.m. I've been out there to shoot the group starting off and along the way. Very few news photographers will cover that. Oddly enough, to my surprise, one year the newpaper sent a reporter and a photographer to cover the event. The photographer never made it out of the parking lot. He whipped out his Canon 1DS, snapped one, and then headed back to the shop.

Canon, naturally.

---Bob Gross---

I work with a few photogs like that. Most the time they are just lazy bums that don't enjoy what they do and put no effort into it. They are probably shooting per assignment and the editors don't press for quality. I can't do that. I have to stay until I get a shot I am happy with.

[GenEOS]

robertwgross wrote:
Yes, the editor is one way to get attention. Shoot some local event that the real photographer does not care to shoot. Show the news people your work. It can't hurt, but be prepared to accept some initial rejection.

Each year on New Years Day, my outdoor club does a "Hangover Hike" beginning at 8 a.m. I've been out there to shoot the group starting off and along the way. Very few news photographers will cover that. Oddly enough, to my surprise, one year the newpaper sent a reporter and a photographer to cover the event. The photographer never made it out of the parking lot. He whipped out his Canon 1DS, snapped one, and then headed back to the shop.

Canon, naturally.

---Bob Gross---

I work with a few photogs like that. Most the time they are just lazy bums that don't enjoy what they do and put no effort into it. They are probably shooting per assignment and the editors don't press for quality. I can't do that. I have to stay until I get a shot I am happy with.

[GenEOS]

robertwgross wrote:
Yes, the editor is one way to get attention. Shoot some local event that the real photographer does not care to shoot. Show the news people your work. It can't hurt, but be prepared to accept some initial rejection.

Each year on New Years Day, my outdoor club does a "Hangover Hike" beginning at 8 a.m. I've been out there to shoot the group starting off and along the way. Very few news photographers will cover that. Oddly enough, to my surprise, one year the newpaper sent a reporter and a photographer to cover the event. The photographer never made it out of the parking lot. He whipped out his Canon 1DS, snapped one, and then headed back to the shop.

Canon, naturally.

---Bob Gross---

I work with a few photogs like that. Most the time they are just lazy bums that don't enjoy what they do and put no effort into it. They are probably shooting per assignment and the editors don't press for quality. I can't do that. I have to stay until I get a shot I am happy with.

[levine2]

I got into the newspaper business by accident three years ago. I shot some photos of police making an arrest in a parking lot. The next one was of a fire in which a local politician lost his home. I brought the pics to the editor and he ran them. In the past year I have had photos published overseas and various national publications. The bottom line is you have to be aggressive. Get to know the local fire and police departments so they will give you access to major breaking stories in your region. Hope this helps. It doesn't hurt to live near a major military post which spearheaded the attack on Iraq.

[fotog]

I have shot for newspapers for about 10-12 years. I gotta admit anybody can take a shot of a news event and have something. I.E. car crash, someone jumping of a bridge, etc. Now if you can create an interesting image of something mundane, your good. I have been flown out to aircraft carriers, assigned to cover the president, just about any kind of pro sport, etc. Looking back I'm most impressed with some yawner of an assignment where I came up with something quite interesting and told the story well.
Now as for getting work. Get something news worthy and take it to the editor. Ask to be put on their stringer list. Their photographer has to be sick, on vacation, move to another city sometime. Go back once a week. Show them you WANT the work.
Large papers want to see you have a degree in photography. Small ones want to see you are good and work cheep.
Bill

[arthurb]

fotog wrote:
I have shot for newspapers for about 10-12 years. I gotta admit anybody can take a shot of a news event and have something. ...


This is one of the reasons why it is hard to become a photojournalist. Editors only want a picture, they really don't care if the person who took it had "L" glass and a fancy camera, or a disposable, the picture only has to be printable.

I think it is interesting, that the local paper has several phototographers who have no "Vision" at all. The paper prints their "Human interest" photos, and some are useless without a caption, while others are a story all their own. I find it interesting that I can tell which of their photogs took the shot, just by the fact that I have to read the caption to get something out of it.

[DaveG]

kahfluie wrote:
I've been coming to these boards since I got my 10D back in June. Since then I have been able to read some valuable information and tips. Keep them coming! I have now come to a point where I find myself "looking" for subjects or things to take a picture of. Most of what I've done recently I find to be rather boring... perhaps taking the shot just to use the camera. So, now I come with a few questions that hopefully you all can help with... especially the pros.

I recently sent a letter to my local newspaper's chief photographer asking how/where to submit photos of potentially newsworthy photos. He graciously responded informing me that because I am an amateur. my photos would not be accepted. Of course I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of the response.

So, how do I get the experience needed to be able to get great photos. I've thought about going to a couple of photographers in the area and asking them if I could help them or shadow them so that I can learn more about photography, and how to approach subjects. Is this a good idea, or will I be turned away? I feel that my strong points come from concert photography. I'd like to learn and do different ideas. I've read where folks will aproach complete strangers about taking their photos either right there, or at a time convenieint for both parties. How do you all do that - what do you say, is there paperwork involved, etc.

I was also wondering if people here can share how they started and what level their at now. How can someone like me better myself with the camera... enough that I can begin doing "freelance" work - eventually working with another photographer in a studio, etc? Am I being off the wall here with my thoughts?

Bottom line... I want to get better at taking photos, and I want to learn what needs to be learned in order to do the right things.

Any help anyone can give me and others here would be greatly appreciated.

Lou

The first thing to do is to look at other photojournalist's work. See what is being published and ask yourself if you are doing work that's that good. If it isn't (and why would it be?) start to figure out what the shooter was doing.

If you are at a basketball game watch where the shooter is stitting. Why there? What kind of lens does it look like she's using. If it's possible look in the paper the next day to see what they used.

Now no papers are going to buy anything from a freelancer if they have perfectly good staff photographers laying around. If they want a good picture of the New Year's Eve fireworks they'll staff it out. Buut if you come across something unusual and it looks like there is no newspaper presence there shoot it and call the newspaper.

I was coming home from delivering a commercial job last summer and found myself in the middle of a car chase. I followed it to the end and got a couple of shots of the bad guy being pounced on by the mounties (Canada, eh?) and subsequently arrested. The first paper I called told me, and I quote: "We have enough pictures.", yet the second paper used it on the front of all three of their editions.

Y'know, you never know, y'know?

As for careers in photography, think about going to school. I'm sure that there are photo schools in your area and a little research should help you tell the good ones from the bad.