Post Your Graduated Neutral Density Sample Shots Please

[amonline]

...been looking to get a GND filter setup for doing sunrises/susets... would like some examples of what they can do... Thanks! (please post manufacturer and gradient types with images)

[yitbos1]

Well, I don't think any sample photo will show you what a ND filter does. It will ideally yield the same image as without but by using a longer exposure while keeping everything else the same.

EDIT: Did you mean a GND or CP filter perhaps? If it's the latter, it will not help much if at all. If the former, there are some threads here that illustrate the use of a GND.

[amonline]

Sorry, yes I meant GND...

[damansidhu]

Ok, ill bite
All these with a Lee 3 stop GND

http://static.flickr.com/80/238922370_f02e27b3e4.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/80/238918826_a7c94ec94c.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/84/238918822_055efe5b8a.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/112/259413357_d6550778af.jpg

[Buggbairn]

Well the beauty of ND grads is that you can take shots that come out in almost exactly the way you saw the scene with your own eyes.

You'd most likely be better with some with/without test shots which I'm afraid I don't have.

ND grads help bring together the dinamic range ie the bright skies and not so bright foreground, sometimes without an ND grad detail in the sky can be washed out if your exposing for the land.

They're very helpfull when Scotlands not so sunny, which is most of the time :lol:

All these shots are with a Lee ND grad 0.6 (2 stop)

http://my-expressions.com/up_media/3649/pblog/4419/1152141564.jpg

http://my-expressions.com/up_media/3649/pblog/4419/1151967519.jpg

http://my-expressions.com/up_media/3649/pblog/4419/1151538601.jpg

http://my-expressions.com/up_media/3649/pblog/4419/1146048747.jpg

[Dimitri_V]

OK,i don`t think you will find many posts or tests here with before and after,what i have to offer is this...
No way you would get this sky in these images without a ND Grad , Lee 0.6 & 0.9
***************************

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Corsewall%20Point.jpg

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Corswall%20point%20lighthouse.jpg

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Under%20a%20black%20heavy%20sky.jpg

Sorry about the size of the images.:(

[Tsmith]

Actually this is an excellent request and great results so far.

Used a HiTech 0.6 soft edge Gradual Neutral Density Filter on these.

Canon EOS 30D Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

http://www.pbase.com/smith_xt/image/68076115/original.jpg

Canon EOS 30D Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

http://www.pbase.com/smith_xt/image/68076877/original.jpg

[Dorman]

Keep this post going, I've really been debating getting into the Cokin/Lee/Hi-tech setup for my 17-40 as I primarilly shoot landscapes. It's between the filters and getting a telephoto....ahhh what to do!?!

Do you guys use hard or soft? 2-3+ stops? Keep the feedback coming.

Cheers.

[Margie]

Great photos...to add to this question...is there one Grad. filter that would be used the most? Looks like 0.6 is used alot...also if a person had a 10-20mm and a 28-75mm...both with different size lens...would it make the most sense to get one for the 10-20 or the 28-75? Seems to me it would be the 10-20.

Thanks,

Margie

[Dorman]

Related question, Toney might now since he has both, for the 10-22 you need the wide angle filter holder, how about for the 17-40? Reason I ask is that if you have the regular P-series cokin holder you can stack multiple filters but you can use only on with the WA (I think I'm correct here)?

[PEACHMAN]

ND huh! Man, if I thought my work would ever be close to the shots you folks have presented in this thread I'd buy whatever younsaid...unfortunatly I'm sure it is more than just the lens/filters!...I have not used a ND lens ever...any good reading material on the subject?

[Margie]

ND huh! Man, if I thought my work would ever be close to the shots you folks have presented in this thread I'd buy whatever younsaid...unfortunatly I'm sure it is more than just the lens/filters!...I have not used a ND lens ever...any good reading material on the subject?

Peachman...We can DREAM, can't we???

[Tsmith]

First for those who don't know theres a difference in Neutral Density and Gradual Neutral Density. The ND is most beneficial when you can't achieve a slow enough shutter speed in bright lighting for slowing down motion, as in water flow. The Gradual is a split filter being only half in neutral density. They come in soft or hard edge with the later being most useful for even horizons, as in oceans scenes.

The Cokin 85P (single slot) wide angle adapter will work on the Canon EF-S 10-22mm down to 10mm but with my 30D there is very slight vignetting in the corners. On my 350D/XT the setup did not vignette. Its easily fixable in post processing. The other option is the Cokin Z-Pro series setup but very expensive as the the filters cost more than the 85P filters.

Here's my setup:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1216803&postcount=7

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1218656&postcount=18

[Dorman]

Thanks a bunch for the info Toney.

[J T]

ND Grad (Cokin) to control the lights from being too blown out on this 40 sec exp.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jimthias/Sky/PierSunset-3497no-pole.jpg

[J T]

ND Grad also used in this shot. The sky would have been much too bright, as you can tell by the reflection in the water.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jimthias/Nature/HouseReflection.jpg

[Stavhp]

I got mine todeya, it is definatly worth it!!
Havent got up y shots though but they look great allready on the camera
Ill upload them soon

[Margie]

Great information and photos here....I checked out the web-site Bluedog and it looks like they have a set that includes the holder, adaptor and one filter for $ 55. Then you can just add another. I think it comes out even cheaper than your list.

http://www.2filter.com/prices/htpackages.html

Would this be the right one for the 10-20mm lens?

Thank you, Margie

[J T]

And another using an ND grad to control the clouds from being blown out on this dismal day:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/jimthias/Structures/OldHouse-4349.jpg

[Tsmith]

Great information and photos here....I checked out the web-site Bluedog and it looks like they have a set that includes the holder, adapter and one filter for $ 55. Then you can just add another. I think it comes out even cheaper than your list.

http://www.2filter.com/prices/htpackages.html

Would this be the right one for the 10-20mm lens?

Thank you, Margie

Margie that will only work down to around 14mm most likely. Thats a stacking adapter as it allows for using multiple filters at the same time. The single slot 85P wide angle adapter is what you need for your lens.

[Margie]

Thank you Bluedog...I am glad that I checked...what confused me is that they had a 77mm listed !

[ChrisBlaze]

my favorite:

http://my-expressions.com/up_media/3649/pblog/4419/1151967519.jpg

[ANIGAV inc.]

what would the main differences be between a neutral density filter and a circular polarizer on sunrises/sunsets?

[damansidhu]

what would the main differences be between a neutral density filter and a circular polarizer on sunrises/sunsets? ND filter is a different beast than Grad ND filter. We are talking about GND's here btw. ND filter's glass would be evenly dark all across, this would allow you to reduce the light in a bright scene e.g. you want to take the flowing waterfall but there's too much light to get that slow shutter speed. GND's are of 2 types- hard and soft. Both have one side of the filter dark and other clear and are called hard and soft depending on how abrupltly the dark part meets the clear part in the filter(hard for abrupt change and soft one gradually fades to clear).
Circular polarizers are completely different in this regard- they are used for as the name suggests - eliminating polarized light- so you can get bluer skies/remove reflections from water/glass etc with those. They work best at 90 degrees to the sun.

Ah and btw, ND or GND filter are normally rectangular piece's of glass and need to attach via a filter holder in front of your lens(i still hold mine by hand), whereas circular polarizers screw on to the front of your lens directly.

At sunset/sunrise if you are shooting into the sun the polarizer isnt gonna be of much use because it works best at 90 degrees to the sun. The ND would help reduce the overall light in the scene, but most effective in this type of scene would be a GND which would help reduce the difference between the bright sky and the dark foreground and help you get detail in the whole scene.
Hope this helps.

[amonline]

Awesome info and samples guys... thanks so much... I definately need to place my order... Bluedog - thanks for the links!

[russellsnr2]

Hi, I see in this thread some of you guys & girls use Lee & others use Cokin so 1st question what do you feel/think is the main diff between the two apart from price. I also see JT has used an ND for a night shot (a very good night shot) anyone else done this?:eek:

[tiziano]

OK,i don`t think you will find many posts or tests here with before and after,what i have to offer is this...
No way you would get this sky in these images without a ND Grad , Lee 0.6 & 0.9
***************************

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Corsewall%20Point.jpg

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Corswall%20point%20lighthouse.jpg

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Under%20a%20black%20heavy%20sky.jpg

Sorry about the size of the images.:(

Dimitri,

WOW!!!!!

[rudgej]

Here's a couple from me with 2-stop Cokin P-series filters:

http://www.johnrudge.f2s.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/buachaille2.jpg

http://www.johnrudge.f2s.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/bridgeoforchy.jpg

[Geoff_Shawcross]

Hmm.....I think I'll have to look into getting GND filter. Since I do alot of landscape photography, I think it would help me in getting the picture the way I saw it when I composed the shot with my eyes. I never considered using one until now, as I had never really known the proper use, and abillities. This is definatly a good thread. :)

[totalbeginner]

If you want to use a polarizer and ND together then forget the Cokin 'P' system. The polarizer slots in behind the grads which is less than ideal, and it's so stiff to turn it makes using it almost impossible.

However, if you're just going to use ND's or GND's then the Cokin system is fine, although if you have a full frame sensor then you may get some vignetting at wide angles.

[Dimitri_V]

Dimitri,

WOW!!!!!
Thanks pal.;)

[Dimitri_V]

Great photos...to add to this question...is there one Grad. filter that would be used the most? Looks like 0.6 is used alot...also if a person had a 10-20mm and a 28-75mm...both with different size lens...would it make the most sense to get one for the 10-20 or the 28-75? Seems to me it would be the 10-20.

Thanks,

Margie
I`ve been through alot of filters,the one i use constantly is the Lee 0.9 hard.
Now,if you have mountains on the sides of the frame,use the 0.9 soft,it blends better with the mountains.
In general i would say buy the two 0.9 (hard & soft) Lee filters.

[Dimitri_V]

ND huh! Man, if I thought my work would ever be close to the shots you folks have presented in this thread I'd buy whatever younsaid...unfortunatly I'm sure it is more than just the lens/filters!...I have not used a ND lens ever...any good reading material on the subject?
I don`t know if you made a typo peachman,we are talking about neutral density grad filters,no way anyone can shoot a good landscape without them.
Usually the difference between sky and ground (in light) is around 3 stops,a good ND grad filter can very easyly compensate for that and the sensor will capture a superb dynamic range.

Worth the money,i never leave home without them,and if i do...i simply don`t shoot.

[Dimitri_V]

Hi, I see in this thread some of you guys & girls use Lee & others use Cokin so 1st question what do you feel/think is the main diff between the two apart from price. I also see JT has used an ND for a night shot (a very good night shot) anyone else done this?:eek:
Quality of glass to start with and second,the Lee is compeletely neutral when the cokin is not,its grey and alters the image`s colour.
I have tried them both.

I have done quite a few night/low light shots,here is one of them...76 sec expossure.

http://www.dvattika.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Scattered%20stones.jpg

[Dimitri_V]

If you want to use a polarizer and ND together then forget the Cokin 'P' system. The polarizer slots in behind the grads which is less than ideal, and it's so stiff to turn it makes using it almost impossible.

However, if you're just going to use ND's or GND's then the Cokin system is fine, although if you have a full frame sensor then you may get some vignetting at wide angles.
Thats very true,it doesn`t work there,it has to be the last filter on the most outer part of the holder.

[Margie]

This question is alittle of the topic...but it looks like alot of these beautiful photos were made with wide to super wide lens...can you tell me how you focused to get the foreground so clear, plus the whole picture clear?

I just got a 10-20 and need help! Badly!!! :(

Thanks, Margie

[Margie]

I`ve been through alot of filters,the one i use constantly is the Lee 0.9 hard.
Now,if you have mountains on the sides of the frame,use the 0.9 soft,it blends better with the mountains.
In general i would say buy the two 0.9 (hard & soft) Lee filters.

Thank you for your reply...I will look into the 0.9 (hard and soft) Lee filters...

[Mike Bell]

What a coincidence! Having made several mistakes only recently with my collection of Lee filters I decided today to do a quick comparison and took these four shots of this tree at Queen's view in Perthshire.

All taken on a tripod with my EF-S 10-22 at 14mm on my 350D. The sky was about 2 stops brighter than the foreground. All were taken in Av mode with aperture f11 and exposure compensation at -0.67 stops (it is usual for me to need to underexpose slightly with my 350D). No PP apart from resizing and a touch of USM.

The only difference is the filters (and obviously the longer shutter times as you add filters especially the polariser):

1. No filters
http://static.flickr.com/115/263321194_a3a625ffd8_o.jpg

2. 0.6 soft edged Lee grad ND
http://static.flickr.com/122/263321198_296a414a9c_o.jpg

3. Lee circular polariser
http://static.flickr.com/92/263321200_516adfaf35_o.jpg

4. Both 0.6 grad ND and polariser
http://static.flickr.com/112/263321201_fc4fa70f66_o.jpg

Hope this helps.

[cosworth]

This thread has gotten me stoked on actually USING my Cokin filter system. Amazing shots that inspire me to shoot more landscape.

since tomorrow is my day off...maybe I can conjure up a shot for this thread.

[Tsmith]

Thank you for your reply...I will look into the 0.9 (hard and soft) Lee filters...

Most reviews I've read suggest starting with a 2 stop 0.6 type.

Just so people that are interested in these filters need to know that theres a little effort involved using them also. Its not just a matter of attaching the setup and composing the shot. You have to slide the filter in its holder trying for the desired affect, often requiring you to take several shots at various positions in the holder bettering you odds of getting a photo that'll be the perfect one.

[Margie]

Thank you Bluedog...I will start with a 2 stop...and practice with that first...leaving for Pismo tomorrow, so I will have to wait until I get back to order it!
My Christmas for myself keeps getting longer and longer! :cool:

Margie

[cfpackerfan]

Gorgeous shots everyone!!!

[J T]

If you want to use a polarizer and ND together then forget the Cokin 'P' system. The polarizer slots in behind the grads which is less than ideal, and it's so stiff to turn it makes using it almost impossible.

I have the Cokin system for both my lenses and I have no problems using the CP filter with either.

[rudgej]

I have the Cokin system for both my lenses and I have no problems using the CP filter with either.
I'm the same JT. I've heard that the CP should be the first filter that the light hits (i.e. the ND is closer to the lens), but have not seen any problems using the Cokin P-series when the CP has to be closest to the lens due to the design of the filter holder. Perhaps the detrimental effects of having the filters in this order are not observed in a typical photo that doesn't get blown up to mega proportions.

[gsewell]

Im amazed at the shots, I have a EOS 300D and looking at a sigma 17-70, would a GND be any use to me? Im shooting landscapes (not very succefully) also Iv looked at my local jessops store and not sure which filter is best, I have a link if its allowed if not feel free to delete.

http://www.jessops.com/Store/c194/1-132-194/Home/Accessories/Digital-Camera-Accessories/Filters/details.aspx

[rudgej]

An ND grad would definitely be useful for you. Your link however just tells me that "nothing was found matching your search criteria". You could try some like Speed Graphic for the Cokin P-series ND kit (http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/prod.asp?i=3376&1=Cokin+P+ND+Graduated+Kit) which is only 33GBP and a cheaper way than the more expensive/better Lee filters.

[alexwise]

Wow the results you guys are getting is amazing! Loving the seascapes! I just ordered the Z series! Was expensive but I'm sure it will pay itself off :)

This guy has kindly posted how he has positioned the cokin filter and the results are amazing!

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=129112&highlight=sunset+shot+in+2+hours

[russellsnr2]

Im amazed at the shots, I have a EOS 300D and looking at a sigma 17-70, would a GND be any use to me? Im shooting landscapes (not very succefully) also Iv looked at my local jessops store and not sure which filter is best, I have a link if its allowed if not feel free to delete.

http://www.jessops.com/Store/c194/1-132-194/Home/Accessories/Digital-Camera-Accessories/Filters/details.aspx

Have a look at www.Karlu.com (http://www.Karlu.com)
or
www.photo-scotland.co.uk (http://www.photo-scotland.co.uk)

[rudgej]

Wow the results you guys are getting is amazing! Loving the seascapes! I just ordered the Z series! Was expensive but I'm sure it will pay itself off :)

This guy has kindly posted how he has positioned the cokin filter and the results are amazing!

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=129112&highlight=sunset+shot+in+2+hours
That's a good thread to point to as the guys sketches were really informative.

[ChrisBlaze]

what are the best ND stops for sunsets that include beaches?

[Dimitri_V]

That's a good thread to point to as the guys sketches were really informative.
Wherever there was a Lee advert,in any magazine,they always had a sketch like this John,thats not a new thing and the guy definitely didn`t invent it.:lol::lol:
Very nice of him of cours to show it to the people who didn`t know.

[Dimitri_V]

what are the best ND stops for sunsets that include beaches?
That depends on the light,it could be from 3 - 6 stops.
You need to meter for every case.

[Stavhp]

well, heres something new
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Stav13/IMG_0007.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Stav13/IMG_0006.jpg

[Tsmith]

Good example Stav.

[Mike Bell]

Good example Stav.

..... except that he should really be holding that filter by its edges! :p ;)

[Stavhp]

..... except that he should really be holding that filter by its edges! :p ;)
Yep, good time cleaning that once i had taken the picture:oops: :p

[galjoe]

great shots everyone,please excuse this if it is a silly question but i am new to photography.do you meter with the ndg on or off.

[bachscuttler]

ND Grads are quite handy for shooting into the sun too!

http://www.bachs.shutterschool.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_1357.jpg

[rudgej]

great shots everyone,please excuse this if it is a silly question but i am new to photography.do you meter with the ndg on or off.
To take a typical Scottish landscape scene as an example, you might have a dull and overcast sky. If you compose the shot to meter on the sky so that the detail is not blown out, then you will end up with a very dark area of land. Alternatively, if you meter for the land, then you blow out the sky. The purpose of an ND grad is to provide a neutral filter that blocks e.g. 2-stops of light, and by fitting that over the lens in a way that covers the sky in the example above, then the sky metering becomes similar to the land metering which results in correctly exposed land, and correctly exposed sky too.

[J T]

I'm the same JT. I've heard that the CP should be the first filter that the light hits (i.e. the ND is closer to the lens), but have not seen any problems using the Cokin P-series when the CP has to be closest to the lens due to the design of the filter holder. Perhaps the detrimental effects of having the filters in this order are not observed in a typical photo that doesn't get blown up to mega proportions.

I hadn't heard that about the CP filter being the first the light hits. I guess I'll have to research that to understand the benefits. I simply screw the Cokin adapter into the CP filter that's already mounted on the lens, put on the holder and then rotate the CP filter to where I want it. I make sure to see where the white line is on the CP filter, so if I happen to rotate it while putting the ND grad filter into the holder, I can put it back exactly where it was.

[Dimitri_V]

I hadn't heard that about the CP filter being the first the light hits. I guess I'll have to research that to understand the benefits. I simply screw the Cokin adapter into the CP filter that's already mounted on the lens, put on the holder and then rotate the CP filter to where I want it. I make sure to see where the white line is on the CP filter, so if I happen to rotate it while putting the ND grad filter into the holder, I can put it back exactly where it was.
Jim,from what they say,the filter polarises the solar rays,if its behind an other filter then the rays are already filtered and the CP doesn`t work properly.

[Dimitri_V]

great shots everyone,please excuse this if it is a silly question but i am new to photography.do you meter with the ndg on or off.
With the ndg on.

[J T]

Jim,from what they say,the filter polarises the solar rays,if its behind an other filter then the rays are already filtered and the CP doesn`t work properly.

Hmm...I would have noticed that for sure. I haven't noticed any de-filtering of the CP filter with the Cokin filter out front. I'll have to test it the next time I'm out. If the ND Grad is just a filter...ie, tinted glass with no polarizing feature, how can it have any effect? Are "they" implying that a tinted piece of glass without any polarizing features actually DOES effect polarization?

[rudgej]

Hmm...I would have noticed that for sure. I haven't noticed any de-filtering of the CP filter with the Cokin filter out front. I'll have to test it the next time I'm out. If the ND Grad is just a filter...ie, tinted glass with no polarizing feature, how can it have any effect? Are "they" implying that a tinted piece of glass without any polarizing features actually DOES effect polarization?
That's my thoughts JT. I would have said that the ND would just cut down some of the light passing through, but the light that did pass through would be just as unpolarised as before, so the CP would still do the job just as well.

[Dimitri_V]

That's my thoughts JT. I would have said that the ND would just cut down some of the light passing through, but the light that did pass through would be just as unpolarised as before, so the CP would still do the job just as well.
Right guys , read this...here (http://www.karlu.com/index.php?cPath=114_409_416_432)

[rudgej]

Dimitri, I presume that you meant the bit on the page:
polarising filters have the effect of saturating colours and deepening blue skies. They can also be used in conjunction with other filters (although the polariser should always be placed in front of polyester filters to ensure it functions correctly).
It unfortunately doesn't give a technical explanation of why this is the case, so the (ex-)scientist in me still needs more proof. ;)

[Dimitri_V]

Dimitri, I presume that you meant the bit on the page:

It unfortunately doesn't give a technical explanation of why this is the case, so the (ex-)scientist in me still needs more proof. ;)
But thats the reason i said....they say.;)

[Dorman]

Best informative gear thread I've had the pleasure of reading in ages. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order a system, now to just decide on the grads, .6 and .9 soft vs. .9 soft and .9 hard.... any thoughts?

[amonline]

I agree... I'm glad I started this... I am definately placing an order soon... I've blown a lot of great images not having this simple little filter...

[Mike Bell]

Best informative gear thread I've had the pleasure of reading in ages. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order a system, now to just decide on the grads, .6 and .9 soft vs. .9 soft and .9 hard.... any thoughts?

I use a 0.6 soft more than any other - it works for most typical mountain landscape vistas. Next common is a 0.9 hard for seascapes with a clear horizon - the sky always seems a bit brighter at the coast. After that a 0.6 hard and 0.3 soft - these I use occasionally. With my setup I can stack 2 grads - I recently needed a 0.9 hard and a 0.6 soft together to get the desired effect.

[totalbeginner]

Ok, here are some before and after samples from the Cokin "P" system. Both images were taken using evaluative metering and -1/3 stop exposure compensation. The first is with no filters, and the second was shot with a 3 stop grad...

[totalbeginner]

You can see the difference from the histograms!


Just out of interest, does anyone know if it's possible to get glass filters that are of neutral density that will fit the Cokin P holder?

[Skychurch]

well, heres something new
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Stav13/IMG_0007.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Stav13/IMG_0006.jpg

Stavhp,

What kind of filter is that ... brand, 2, 3 stop, soft/hard edge?

Thanks

[Stavhp]

its a cokin ND8 and it has a soft edge

[Gujustud]

Wow, these shots are amazing. I thought my polarizer was good, but looks like i'm in the market again.

[sando]

Great work everyone... I was in the market for some ND and GND and this has helped heaps. :)

[Skychurch]

its a cokin ND8 and it has a soft edge

Interesting, the top one looks darker than the bottom one. I'm still trying to decide which one I should start out with ... 2 or 3 stop. I think I've decided that soft edge is the way to go for now.

Thanks

[Stavhp]

Interesting, the top one looks darker than the bottom one. I'm still trying to decide which one I should start out with ... 2 or 3 stop. I think I've decided that soft edge is the way to go for now.

Thanks
Yeah, top one is darker because i under-exposed everything:oops:

[alexwise]

http://alexwise.dreamhosters.com/ocau/ndtest.jpg

So I just got my filters! Sadly my 10-22 is being repaired so I just put this in front of the lens as a tester!! Woo I'm going to have some fun with these!!

[dawnrogers]

First of all....WOW what stunning photo's...........I've just bought a Cokin filter folder and a ND grad filter....havne't had a chance to get out and use it yet though...but certainly inspired by you guys......thanks

[AdamJL]

To take a typical Scottish landscape scene as an example, you might have a dull and overcast sky. If you compose the shot to meter on the sky so that the detail is not blown out, then you will end up with a very dark area of land. Alternatively, if you meter for the land, then you blow out the sky. The purpose of an ND grad is to provide a neutral filter that blocks e.g. 2-stops of light, and by fitting that over the lens in a way that covers the sky in the example above, then the sky metering becomes similar to the land metering which results in correctly exposed land, and correctly exposed sky too.

With the ndg on.

That's interesting.
I guess it's user preference though right, because there's nothing wrong with metering with the GND off? Just compensate using bracket exposure of about 1/3 I suppose for the eventual loss of light?
Is this correct as well?

[theague]

Great information and photos here....I checked out the web-site Bluedog and it looks like they have a set that includes the holder, adaptor and one filter for $ 55. Then you can just add another. I think it comes out even cheaper than your list.

http://www.2filter.com/prices/htpackages.html

Would this be the right one for the 10-20mm lens?

Thank you, Margie


I've been wanting to get a GND setup for awhile now.

My question, after reading this whole thread is:

Does the above package (in the quote) afford the use of both a GND and CP at the same time? I'm still confused on how to use them both together. I understand that it is more effective to have the CP in front of the GND but how do I accomplish this? I am not quite understanding what all the components are that would need to be purchased in order to have a CP/GND setup.

[Mike Bell]

I've been wanting to get a GND setup for awhile now.

My question, after reading this whole thread is:

Does the above package (in the quote) afford the use of both a GND and CP at the same time? I'm still confused on how to use them both together. I understand that it is more effective to have the CP in front of the GND but how do I accomplish this? I am not quite understanding what all the components are that would need to be purchased in order to have a CP/GND setup.

I can only tell you about Lee options. First you buy one of their standard filter holders. That has slots for up to 4 filters. You will also need an adaptor ring of the filter size of your lens - go for the wide angle type of adaptor ring as they vignette less. The filter holder just clips onto the adaptor ring. Then you buy one of their 105mm circular polarisers and a 105mm adaptor ring which screws onto the front of the standard filter holder. The CPL screws onto the 105mm ring. You may have to remove one or more filter slots to avoid vignetting. (It is all held together by 4 screws). I found I had to go down to just one filter slot to avoid serious vignetting on my 10-22 lens at its wide end. So I can have one ND grad plus a CPL. Alternatively I now have another filter holder (in the shape of the Lee Universal Bellows Hood) which has slots for 2 filters and shields the lens from side light but cannot take the CPL. When you have bought all that and a set of Lee NDgrads you volunteer for lots of overtime or rob a bank! :lol:

[J T]

Question...Mike, maybe you can answer this. Will a Lee filter fit into my Cokin holder? (77mm) Are they compatible at all?

[theague]

Thanks for all the detail. Unfortunately, as you point out, Lee seems to be an expensive way to go. I don't have the capital at this time to do that. lol

I can only tell you about Lee options. First you buy one of their standard filter holders. That has slots for up to 4 filters. You will also need an adaptor ring of the filter size of your lens - go for the wide angle type of adaptor ring as they vignette less. The filter holder just clips onto the adaptor ring. Then you buy one of their 105mm circular polarisers and a 105mm adaptor ring which screws onto the front of the standard filter holder. The CPL screws onto the 105mm ring. You may have to remove one or more filter slots to avoid vignetting. (It is all held together by 4 screws). I found I had to go down to just one filter slot to avoid serious vignetting on my 10-22 lens at its wide end. So I can have one ND grad plus a CPL. Alternatively I now have another filter holder (in the shape of the Lee Universal Bellows Hood) which has slots for 2 filters and shields the lens from side light but cannot take the CPL. When you have bought all that and a set of Lee NDgrads you volunteer for lots of overtime or rob a bank! :lol:

[rudgej]

Question...Mike, maybe you can answer this. Will a Lee filter fit into my Cokin holder? (77mm) Are they compatible at all?
JT, I presume that you have the Cokin P-series, and if so, I think that the filter sizes are 84mm wide whereas the Lee filters are 100mm wide, so they wouldn't fit on the Cokin holder. On the other hand, if you have the Z-pro range, then that holder should take the Lee filters (as it takes 100mm filters) - unless the thickness of the Lee filters causes problems...

[J T]

Thanks, John. I have the P-series so no go.

[Mike Bell]

Question...Mike, maybe you can answer this. Will a Lee filter fit into my Cokin holder? (77mm) Are they compatible at all?

JT, I presume that you have the Cokin P-series, and if so, I think that the filter sizes are 84mm wide whereas the Lee filters are 100mm wide, so they wouldn't fit on the Cokin holder. On the other hand, if you have the Z-pro range, then that holder should take the Lee filters (as it takes 100mm filters) - unless the thickness of the Lee filters causes problems...

As John says Lee filters are 100mm wide. I don't have a micrometer gauge but squinting at one of my NDgrads against a ruler I would say they are 2mm thick. Hope this helps.

[rudgej]

As John says Lee filters are 100mm wide. I don't have a micrometer gauge but squinting at one of my NDgrads against a ruler I would say they are 2mm thick. Hope this helps.
That's interesting as the Z-pro holder is designed for filters of 4mm, so perhaps the risk of using Lees in the Cokin holder is that they might slide out if they are not gripped too tightly. :shock:

[sjafari]

I have been continuously experimenting on how to get the sky properly exposed in high dynamic range situations, and usually end up making an HDR image to get everything properly exposed... but after reading up on how GND's work, I now have a whole new set of pricey goods to add to my equipment bag. Thanks for all the advice everybody!

[amonline]

I would think that the combination of HDR and GND would produce amazing results.

[Stephen Martin]

Question for JT,

What circular polarizer do you use with your Cokin P holder? Do you find you have serious vignetting with the polarizer and Cokin holder?

The slim polarizers I've seen on the market (Hoya's for example) don't have front threads. So I wonder how that works for you...

[rudgej]

Question for JT,

What circular polarizer do you use with your Cokin P holder? Do you find you have serious vignetting with the polarizer and Cokin holder?

The slim polarizers I've seen on the market (Hoya's for example) don't have front threads. So I wonder how that works for you...
I've got the P-series filters and use the Cokin P164 Circular Polarizer (http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/prod.asp?i=3275&1=Cokin+P164+Circular+Polarising) which fits into the holder, so you can effectively use this on different lenses if you have the correct holder adapter. I've used it on my 17-40 lens at 17 mm without problem (e.g. see my photo examples early in this thread, or my recent on Preston Mill (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=228299)).

[michael_]

wow what a thread and links within, without a doubt the most informative and usefull thread to me on POTN awesome and now i can buy a filter system with confidence.

/me clicks submit on B&H :P

/me receives phone call from bank

/me collapses :P

[Stephen Martin]

John,
That is helpful information. It sounds like you are pretty happy with that setup...I may have to give that a try.

(Love the photo examples, by the way...)

Can other brands of polarizers work in the Cokin holder, or is Cokin the best fit?

[Dimitri_V]

That's interesting.
I guess it's user preference though right, because there's nothing wrong with metering with the GND off? Just compensate using bracket exposure of about 1/3 I suppose for the eventual loss of light?
Is this correct as well?
Thats very correct,you can meter the fg without the filter on or the whole scene (evaluative) with the filter on.

[rudgej]

John,
That is helpful information. It sounds like you are pretty happy with that setup...I may have to give that a try.

(Love the photo examples, by the way...)

Can other brands of polarizers work in the Cokin holder, or is Cokin the best fit?
I've no idea. One thing you'll probably find is that the CP is quite stiff to turn when you first fit it in the holder, but it does loosen off, and if you get the wide-angle holder, it is even easier to use. A word of warning about the wide-angle holder is that if the CP is fitted, there is no space left for a filter!

[RichardtheSane]

Just another sample

The sky would and entire left frame would have been destroyed in this one without an angled Lee 0.9 Hard

http://www.richardlindley.co.uk/galleries/holidays/lakes_2006/scenes/060915_img_46901.jpg

Great thread!

[Dorman]

Whoa, awesome shot Richard!

[queenbee288]

Dimitri: Love that lighthouse shot.

[HrcRacing]

The slim polarizers I've seen on the market (Hoya's for example) don't have front threads. So I wonder how that works for you...

The Hoya Pro1's are slim and are dual threaded. You might also look at the Kenko Pro1 which is much less expensive and, from what I've read, basically the same glass.

[AdamJL]

How was your GND angled there Richard? Terrific shot.

[red hot sheep]

Great thread!

[Geoff_Shawcross]

Richard, all I have to say is WOW!!! :shock:

This thread has been a great help to me in the sense I never realized how useful a GND filter could be. Until this thread, I never realized what this filter was capable of alowing you to do. As a result of this thread, I'll be purchasing a filter holder and a few different GND filters. Probably just from Cokin as it the only one that is in my price range at the moment (I think). :)

All the pictures on this thread have just been amazing and inspiring as to what I may be capable as well.

[J T]

Question for JT,

What circular polarizer do you use with your Cokin P holder? Do you find you have serious vignetting with the polarizer and Cokin holder?

The slim polarizers I've seen on the market (Hoya's for example) don't have front threads. So I wonder how that works for you...

I don't notice any more vignetting with the filter on than I would with JUST the CP filter. And speaking of my CP filter and the Cokin system...the damn adapter ring is JAMMED on my filter! I can't screw it off...somehow when I was screwing it on, it jumped a thread on one side and is screwed on crooked. No amount of twisting can loosen it. I might have to take it to the local camera store and have them try to get it off. http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/4.gif

[samsen]

Once I thought digital area and post processing will obsout special effects filters completely.
I now realize how wrong I was.

[J T]

Once I thought digital area and post processing will obsout special effects filters completely.
I now realize how wrong I was.

I can't imagine digital effects and post processing will ever make filters obsolete, especially CD filters. Who knows, though...

[angryhampster]

Perhaps I should have gone with a less dense filter :lol:

This was with my 1.2 GND from hiTech with my cokin P system.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/angryhampster/artistic/sunset2.jpg

[slacker]

Great thread... I've been looking into these filters for a while now and think I'm ready to finally pull the trigger and buy a set with all of the useful info and examples presented here, thanks a bunch!!

[BobOh]

I've read the whole thread and I can definitely see the advantage to these filters. But please forgive a dumb question or two. You need to be able to rotate them depending on the orientation of the line between light and dark, right? Are they designed like CP's to allow that to be done? If not, can you just loosen the filter to orient it the right way, or might that cause vignetting? What is (are) the various physical designs to allow this rotation? I looked on B&H's website but there are no good pictures of them.

[J T]

Bob, you can slide them freely in the holder and rotate the holder as well, allowing you to put the horizon line of the filter any where you choose.

[BobOh]

So if I buy a set of Hoya's for example, they would come with the holder? And that would fit various diameter lenses?

[rudgej]

So if I buy a set of Hoya's for example, they would come with the holder? And that would fit various diameter lenses?
I'm not familiar with the Hoya stuff, but in the case of Lee or Cokin filters, you have to buy an adaptor ring for the correct diameter of each lens that you want to use, and the holder will then fit onto the adapter. I've got Cokin P-series filters, and I bought an ND grad filter kit consisting of 1, 2, and 3-stop filters, and a holder. I also bought an adapter for each of my lenses. Perhaps Hoya do similar kits.

[Seaboarder]

A most interesting and helpful thread.
Some great shots.
Paul

[Tareq]

I ordered GND system filters and i will post here some shots taken by GND in the future when i will travel and use it.
Good luck.

[britt777]

Great thread, just another ?. Most threads are about landscape shots with a wide angle lens. Does anyone use the filters with Telephoto lenses?

[britt777]

Best GND filter for the 20D. I here Cokin is cheap. From my understanding of Lee, you have to buy holders and everything. So whats better? Circular screw on lens or rectangular in front of lens with holder. Suggestions please

[AdamJL]

Rectangular Filters for sure. More flexibilty, greater coverage.
I've got both the Cokin system and a Lee system now. Cokin are good in that they give you quick access. Lee takes a bit of forethought, but the quality of the filters is far superior than Cokin's P series!

[TMR Design]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Cokin system allowed you to adjust the gradient up or down, whereas the screw in filter has the gradient happening in a specific part of the filter and it either works or does not.

Any thoughts or experience? I want to get some of these filters as well. The pictures shown in the other threads referenced are simply beautiful.

[rudgej]

Great thread, just another ?. Most threads are about landscape shots with a wide angle lens. Does anyone use the filters with Telephoto lenses?
I've done so. All I had to do was use a 67mm adapter for my 70-200 lens.

Best GND filter for the 20D. I here Cokin is cheap. From my understanding of Lee, you have to buy holders and everything. So whats better? Circular screw on lens or rectangular in front of lens with holder. Suggestions please
Both Cokin and Lee need an adapter ring for your lens, the holder, and the filter. The Lee ones are higher quality, but more expensive.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Cokin system allowed you to adjust the gradient up or down, whereas the screw in filter has the gradient happening in a specific part of the filter and it either works or does not.

Any thoughts or experience? I want to get some of these filters as well. The pictures shown in the other threads referenced are simply beautiful.
Both Cokin and Lee are rectangular filter systems which means that you can slight the filter up and down to suit the scene you are shooting. The filter holder also rotates to allow you to have the filters at whatever angle you want.

[Dorman]

Ok I've got all my items sitting in my cart, the filters, adapters, holders... (darn this thread all to heck! ;) ), I just had one last thought, I know UWA lenses like the 10-22 you need the Cokin Wide Angle holder which holds one filter, with my 17-40 on a crop body do I need the WA holder or can I use the regular P series holder that will accomodate several filters?

[J T]

with my 17-40 on a crop body do I need the WA holder...

Yes.

[rudgej]

Ok I've got all my items sitting in my cart, the filters, adapters, holders... (darn this thread all to heck! ;) ), I just had one last thought, I know UWA lenses like the 10-22 you need the Cokin Wide Angle holder which holds one filter, with my 17-40 on a crop body do I need the WA holder or can I use the regular P series holder that will accomodate several filters?

Yes.
Yes and No. I've got the standard and WA holder, and can take photos at 17mm without vignetting. :p The WA holder will only allow one filter or one CP, but not both at the same time, so if you want both, then you must use the normal filter. You could always stick to e.g. 20mm if you want to avoid vignetting.

[Dorman]

Thanks JT, that answers it plain and simple. :)

[Dorman]

D'oh! So I may or may not get vignetting with the regular holder Rudgej? I suppose the holders are inexpensive and I could pick up both to see... for what it's worth, using multiples I'd probably be using just GND or ND's, not the ND's + CPL, if that makes a difference

[rudgej]

I routinely use the default holder with CP and filter (or even two filters), and not noticed a problem. On the odd occasion I might see a slight darkening, but could easily attribute that to the issues of using a CP on a wide angle lens due to the polarising effect changing over the range of the photo.

[Dorman]

And one last question, I'm looking at buying the Hi-Tech brand filters, they are 85mm filters but the Cokin holders state 83mm, will they fit? In the specs it says "This filter measures 85 x 107mm and fits the Cokin P series holder", I'm assuming I should be good to go.

[Dorman]

Thanks Rudgej, for 7.99 I think I'll pick up both and see what works for me.

[J T]

That makes sense, John. I was just going by what I was advised to purchase for my 17-40. :-)

However, I'm scratching my head over this statement:

he WA holder will only allow one filter or one CP, but not both at the same time,

I use both my WA holder AND the CP filter at the same time (in fact, the adapter ring for the holder is jammed in the outer threads of my CP filter and I can't get it off!!>:( )

[rudgej]

And one last question, I'm looking at buying the Hi-Tech brand filters, they are 85mm filters but the Cokin holders state 83mm, will they fit? In the specs it says "This filter measures 85 x 107mm and fits the Cokin P series holder", I'm assuming I should be good to go.

You should be fine judging by the width of the Hi-Tech filters, and I'm sure that I've heard of people on here using them in Cokin holders in the past.

That makes sense, John. I was just going by what I was advised to purchase for my 17-40. :-)

However, I'm scratching my head over this statement:



I use both my WA holder AND the CP filter at the same time (in fact, the adapter ring for the holder is jammed in the outer threads of my CP filter and I can't get it off!!>:( )
Interesting Jim. Do you have the CP, circular in shape, that fits into the slot nearest to the lens? This is what I have, and the outer end of the CP extends past the filter slot which is why I can't get both in my WA holder.

[J T]

Wait, John...I think I was a little confused by your statement. I meant that I use my CP filter WITH the holder screwed into it via the adapter ring. The WA holder I have only has a slot for one filter. Sorry, I thought you were saying you couldn't screw the holder/adapter ring into the CP filter and use them at the same time. http://bestsmileys.com/hitting/14.gif

[rudgej]

No problem. :) Is your CP a "normal" one that screws onto your lens? The CP I got was the Cokin P164 CP that fits into a slot in the holder and means that I can use it in the holder on any of my lenses (as long as I have the correct holder adapter).

[J T]

No problem. :) Is your CP a "normal" one that screws onto your lens? The CP I got was the Cokin P164 CP that fits into a slot in the holder and means that I can use it in the holder on any of my lenses (as long as I have the correct holder adapter).

yes, it's a Hoya screw-in type with threads in front as well.

[britt777]

Are lee P series GND filters Glass? I had someone say they are Resin? Just wondering. Thought they were glass.

[AdamJL]

Lee P series?

[britt777]

Yes, I guess they are Resin. I thought what made lee so great was that they were glass. Guess not

[Margie]

yes, it's a Hoya screw-in type with threads in front as well.

I just got a Hoya filter...but there are no threads on the front...is that going to be a problem for me?

[rudgej]

Are lee P series GND filters Glass? I had someone say they are Resin? Just wondering. Thought they were glass.
Both the Cokin P-Series and Lee filters are resin-based.

[rudgej]

I just got a Hoya filter...but there are no threads on the front...is that going to be a problem for me?
Could be! ;) The filter holder fits onto an screw-on adapter ring of the same diameter as your lens. You could always hand-hold the filter in front of the lens though, but this would be less than ideal.

[samsen]

Cokin time.

[Margie]

Could be! ;) The filter holder fits onto an screw-on adapter ring of the same diameter as your lens. You could always hand-hold the filter in front of the lens though, but this would be less than ideal.

I guess the only time I would have a problem is if and when I wanted to use both the CP and the cokin holder for the GNDfilter at the same time, which doesn't seem like would be that often.

Margie

[rudgej]

I guess the only time I would have a problem is if and when I wanted to use both the CP and the cokin holder for the GNDfilter at the same time, which doesn't seem like would be that often.

Margie
Margie, I actually find that it is pretty common for me to use both CP and filter at the same time... For example, in a landscape shot with water, I would use the CP to get the best out of the water, and the grad to stop down the sky.

[Shoehorn O' Plenty]

seems like everyone likes lee and hitech more than the cokin GND filters, but i want to give the cokin a try. can someone explain the difference in the cokin filters? there is 121M (medium), 121F (full), 121L (light), and 121 S (soft). i know what the soft is, but light full and medium?

i hitech filters are so much easier to understand, there is only soft or hard...

many thanks in advanced.
:D

[rudgej]

They are just different densities with F being most dense: 121L is 1-stop, 121M is 2-stops, and 121F is 3-stops.

[Shoehorn O' Plenty]

thanks rudgej. i took a look at the bh site to see if they were able to tell a difference, but they showed 121S and 121F both at 3 stop, and 121L and 121M at 1.75 stop.

# Cokin 121S - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Soft)
# Cokin 121F - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Full)
# Cokin 121L - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Light)
# Cokin 121M - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Medium)

[MAH]

thanks rudgej. i took a look at the bh site to see if they were able to tell a difference, but they showed 121S and 121F both at 3 stop, and 121L and 121M at 1.75 stop.

# Cokin 121S - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Soft)
# Cokin 121F - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Full)
# Cokin 121L - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Light)
# Cokin 121M - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Medium)

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pdf/COKIN%20ND%20Chart.pdf

I think the 121S is down at the bottom without a number.

[Shoehorn O' Plenty]

awesome! thanks MAH!

[rudgej]

thanks rudgej. i took a look at the bh site to see if they were able to tell a difference, but they showed 121S and 121F both at 3 stop, and 121L and 121M at 1.75 stop.

# Cokin 121S - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Soft)
# Cokin 121F - 3 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Full)
# Cokin 121L - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Light)
# Cokin 121M - 1.75 stop Graduated Neutral Density (Medium)
It looks like the B&H site is not quite right then. ;)

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pdf/COKIN%20ND%20Chart.pdf

I think the 121S is down at the bottom without a number.
Thanks to Mark for the official clarification. :)

[Tareq]

My order of GND was the following:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=COFHWAP+&image.x=9&image.y=6
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=COARP77+&image.x=10&image.y=10
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=HIGND.3SCP&image.x=4&image.y=7
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=HIGND.6SCP&image.x=11&image.y=10
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=HIGND.9SCP&image.x=6&image.y=8
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=HIGND1.2SCP&image.x=5&image.y=6

I think this is good setup, but my question is: is there more i need? All these are soft, so should i get hard one too?

[rudgej]

Looks like a good range Tareq - 1-4 stops. I generally use my 2-stop soft filter, and have never felt the need for a hard one as the landscape scenes I take are usually bumpy (as opposed to perfectly flat) anyway ;) :lol: