420 ex for G3 questions!!!

[roanjohn]

I've been thinking of buying this thing as my indoor group shots w/ the onboard falsh is really disappointing.

Here are a few questions:

What is the battery supply and how long does it last?

Is it cumbersome to hold?

Aside from the reach, what are the other advantages?

What is "bounce"? And how is it acheived? Some people say bounce to the wall or the ceiling...what do they mean?

What is a diffuser and what are its advantages?

And last........if you can..........I want to see some example........And even more helpful is a pic w/ the onboard flash and one w/ the 420 ex.

I know its a lot of questions and I thank you in advance for even taking the time to read this post.

Ro1

[cityboy_ca]

I'm on my way out so I can't post any pic's right now.. I'll try to get to this tomorrow.

As for your questions:

It takes 4 AA batteries. How long they last depends on the type of shots you're taking. Fill flash doesn't use much juice, night shots at a distance take a lot. I put batteries in mine about 3 weeks ago and it's still going strong. I use the flash for almost every picture I take.

Yes - it IS cumbersome. Your camera will be top heavy and will tip over if you wear it around your neck. Get used to giving up one hand to hold onto the flash. There are some solutions (special straps that hold everything in place) and you can search this forum for details. But although it's cumbersome, it's totally worth the effort. Your pictures will improve immediately.

The reach is huge but the other major advantage is NO MORE RED-EYE. Also, by bouncing the flash you get much more pleasing images.

The 420 tilts up and swivels from side to side. Bounce flash simply means that the light from the flash is bounced off something else before it reaches the subject. Your camera will read the light that falls on the subject (normally) and provide the correct exposure. For normal shots at home I just tilt the flash up and bouce the light off the white ceiling - this gives a softer light on my subject(s) and no harsh shadows. There are lots of articles on the Web and in magazines that discuss the best bounce methods (bouncing off walls, corners, reflectors, etc) and, since it's digital and easy to experiment, you can play around and come up with something you like.

A diffuser simply softens the light coming off the flash, spreading it out. The light will be more even over a wider area. If there's nothing to bounce your flash off or you want a soft light source, this offers a good solution. I didn't buy one when I got my flash and haven't found the need to get one yet, though that may change.


Hope this helps.

[s00pcan]

What's the cheapest place to buy one?

[bobdf]

The manual says 200 to 1400 flashes and cityboy is correct in that the variation depends on the flash duration (fill light gives the higher number, full flash the lower).

The big advantage is that only Canon's EX series fully work with the E-TTL flash metering system in the G3. The brand-x flashes that come close are only TTL as far as I've read. The G3 and the 420EX work together in other ways.

The 420EX also has a zooming flash that matches the distance to the subject (or approximately near the focal length you've zoomed to), or it at least attempts to do so. There seems to be one problem with the range determination. The 420EX uses a ranging light on the red side, and the G3 has problems focusing on red things. I haven't noticed the problem but it might be that I still think in terms of guide numbers and such and often shift to manual everything when I suspect I'll have a problem. But I did read about the problem somewhere.

cityboy is right in that it makes the camera a little top heavy, but nearly all the weight is in those four AA batteries. It doesn't help that the flash is about as big as the tiny G3. But I really do like the 420EX with the G3. I'd gotten away from using flash because of all the thinking and calculations required in film days, but this 420 is really easy to use and most of the time you can remain auto with not bad results. And I never have to use that built-in flash that's guaranteed to give red-eye, shadows on the wall, and washed out tones.

I have a diffuser, but rarely use it. I only find it helpful when I would otherwise use bounce flash but the ceiling is not white enough.

Best price seems to be around $199 from Penn Camera and some others. I've seen it at $179 from an online vendor I've never heard of before.

[msvadi]

buy it from B&H (grey market model). They are reliable and prices are reasonable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

examples. I'm sure if you search the web you'll find lots of test pictures. just look for bounce - no bounce, that's what make the difference. You want to buy that particular model (420EX or 550EX) because TTL won't work with other models.

diffuser. it's useful in some situations. if you shooting a party, for example, and want to illuminate the whole room, then you need a diffuser. for close-up, portrait shots it's useless (at least, I did not find a way to make it useful). for portrait shots you want the flash to be in the bounce position. I find the best lighting is when the flash is pointed into the direction opposite to the subject and slightly to the side (of course you'll need something to boucnce the flash from, like a wall, for example).

here is a couple of snapshots I took this way:
http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/302031226_006.jpg?6635


http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/302031221_025.jpg?7554

I don't have any shots with the flash pointed directly, but it's not difficult to imagine how pictures above would look like, it's really not different from the in-camera flash except for the red-eye.

[msvadi]

one last advice: shoot RAW for easy white balance adjustment. With bouncing flash the WB can be a problem if the bouncing surface is not exactly white.

[s00pcan]

msvadi wrote:
buy it from B&H (grey market model). They are reliable and prices are reasonable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

You mean the imported second one? What's the difference?

edit: oh. no us warranty right?

[msvadi]

this means that in the case you need warranty service you'll be sending it to B&H instead of sending it to Canon. If you search this forum you'll find that many recommend them and they are reliable.

I was in their store in NY a couple of days ago. it's huge, very impressive ;)

[PFlor]

msvadi wrote:
I find the best lighting is when the flash is pointed into the direction opposite to the subject and slightly to the side (of course you'll need something to boucnce the flash from, like a wall, for example).

msvadi,

Great lighting in those portrait shots. Can you elaborate a little on your statement above? Do you mean bouncing the flash into a white wall behind you? I haven't had the chance to try this technique yet, but now that I've seen your samples...

[pradeep1]

If you are shooting a party and using the bounce flash to fill up the room with light or light up a somewhat distant subject, then the 420EX will eat through batteries pretty quickly. I was able to get about 180 shots with 100% flash usage with 100% bounce before the cycle time between flashes became too long. Just load it up with some good 2100 mAH rechargeable batteries and you will be good to go.

Here is an example of an indoor shot with the flash head bounced. I was about 8 ft. from the subjects. Notice the pleasing, shadowless lighting.

http://sprakash.home.att.net/photos/bounceflash.jpg

[roanjohn]

Thanks guys!!!

So here's what I've learned:

Best place to buy it is at B&H......the grey goose market kind.

Buy NiMH batteries to best power it up :-)

Bouncing is angling the flash head so its not perpendicular to the subject, either to a wall or a ceiling...but mostly ceiling (and it has to be white). Red eye is gone!!!

A diffuser distributes the flash equally on group shots. Now here is a question, does the diffuser strengthen the flash or does it lessen it? And why not have it on all the time??

In any case.........the pictures are proof enough....Once I save up some cash I'll get one.

I'll have to experiment while I get it I guess and see what develops.

Thanks again!!!

Ro1

[msvadi]

PFlor wrote:
msvadi wrote:
I find the best lighting is when the flash is pointed into the direction opposite to the subject and slightly to the side (of course you'll need something to boucnce the flash from, like a wall, for example).

msvadi,

Can you elaborate a little on your statement above? Do you mean bouncing the flash into a white wall behind you?

exactly. i used to bounce it from the ceiling, but it was too obvious that the light was coming from above. i think that the wall behind the photographer works better. also, sit your subject so that one side of the face will be brighter.

[msvadi]

roanjohn wrote:
Bouncing is angling the flash head so its not perpendicular to the subject, either to a wall or a ceiling...but mostly ceiling (and it has to be white).


it does not have to be white, but if it's not it will give blue/yellow tint to your pictures. some people may like it, but if you don't then you can correct the white balance during postprocessing. and it's easy with photoshop CS, just shoot RAW.

roanjohn wrote:

A diffuser distributes the flash equally on group shots. Now here is a question, does the diffuser strengthen the flash or does it lessen it? And why not have it on all the time??



it's the beauty of TTL: you don't have to worry, the flash compensates automatically. or you can take a test shot, check the histogram and adjust flash compensation. I practically stopped using the diffuser, it does not help much. just play with bouncing.

[flowe]

roanjohn wrote:
So here's what I've learned:
...
Buy NiMH batteries to best power it up :-)
...

It is not that simple. You may want to read the thread about this we had just recently:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21552#124828

Rechargeable batteries only make sense if you consume the power within a few weeks, because of self discharge - and a lot of work too. Alkalines work fine, but you keep worrying about the remaining power and spares. Many people - me included - believe that the AA non-rechargeable Energizer lithium batteries make a lot of sense - for the arguments see the above thread.

HTH

[drisley]

Doesn't the 420ex manual show that Alkaline batteries give the longest life for this flash, even better than nimh? Has something to do with the way a flash works as opposed to say a digicam.

I personally use rechargeable ALKALINES.
They are cheap, and last a long time in flashes.

[Doug in Alaska]

That's what my 420 ex manual says.

[flowe]

Hi drisley, hi Doug

The batteries question appears as a very severe and ever lasting battle. I definitely don't want to pour any more oil in the fire. The following therefore is meant as a very cool and unemotional statement :wink: on behalf of innocent newcomers - ok with you?

Canon's 2 cents:
Provided the 420EX manual is the same the world over - as customary with Canon - then the following holds true:
p.10: Alkalines and NiCds can be used.
p.11, last but two remark: Lithium mignon cells and rechargeable NiMHs can be used as well.
There is no further reference to batteries or even a recommendation, apart from the table on p.50, roughly comparing Alkaline and NiCd performance

My 2 cents:
- disposable Alkalines are technically ok and middle of the road
- rechargeable Alkalines hold a very small market share
- rechargeable NiCds are old technology and cadmium is one of the worst environemental agents - about time Canon would drop them.
- "Lithium mignon cells" can only mean disposable AA Energizer L91 Lithium batteries - because this is the only brand on the market. Superior performance - and price too.
- rechargeable NiMHs only make sense for hard use, because of fast self discharge - broad consent on that one.

I have absolutely no commercial interest in Energizer (too big), but I'm impressed by the technical feat of the L91. As an amateur photographer with widely varying use of the 420EX, I'm glad I have one worry less - more than plenty of other things to keep in mind...

Apart from my earlyer posting linked in my above posting, where I listed all the IMHO favorable aspects of the L91, please refer to http://www.cliffshade.com/dpfwiw/batteries.htm. The author Jeremy McCreary puts the word please in italics - "please do consider the disposable Lithium L91 cells" - rather remarkable and funny. Judged by his profound photographic knowledge, I think he deserves some credit in the batteries question as well. He too quotes objective evidence and graphs pertaining to the superior performance of the L91. It boils down to "how much is in there - how much do you get out of it - and for how long and over what temperature range".

Take your choice - I like the L91s and am prepared to pay the extra charge (BTW: the same applies to the Canon gear... :wink: )

Enjoy photography!

[4walls]

I got a kick out of this...

http://www.juergenspecht.com/truestories/flashhelmet/

...hope you enjoy it too.

[Moses]

msvadi wrote:
buy it from B&H (grey market model). They are reliable and prices are reasonable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

You mean the imported second one? What's the difference?

edit: oh. no us warranty right?

The "imported" version not only doesn't come with a warranty, it's got a non-english manual and no rebate.

B&H is charging $159.95 for the "Imported" (grey market) 420EX with no rebate, and $164.95 (after the $15 rebate) for the USA version. $5.00 difference for a USA warranty and an English manual seems very reasonable to me.

I just bought the 550EX from B&H and bought the USA version which was also only five dollars difference between the grey and the USA versions..

[stoneylonesome]

msvadi wrote:
buy it from B&H (grey market model). They are reliable and prices are reasonable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

You mean the imported second one? What's the difference?

edit: oh. no us warranty right?

The "imported" version not only doesn't come with a warranty, it's got a non-english manual and no rebate.

B&H is charging $159.95 for the "Imported" (grey market) 420EX with no rebate, and $164.95 (after the $15 rebate) for the USA version. $5.00 difference for a USA warranty and an English manual seems very reasonable to me.

I just bought the 550EX from B&H and bought the USA version which was also only five dollars difference between the grey and the USA versions..

Funny I bought the grey market one from B&H photo and it's manual was in English. And from what I've heard they will stand behind the grey market one. Love the flash....

[msvadi]

msvadi wrote:
buy it from B&H (grey market model). They are reliable and prices are reasonable.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com

You mean the imported second one? What's the difference?

edit: oh. no us warranty right?

The "imported" version not only doesn't come with a warranty, it's got a non-english manual and no rebate.

B&H is charging $159.95 for the "Imported" (grey market) 420EX with no rebate, and $164.95 (after the $15 rebate) for the USA version. $5.00 difference for a USA warranty and an English manual seems very reasonable to me.

I just bought the 550EX from B&H and bought the USA version which was also only five dollars difference between the grey and the USA versions..

My grey market has an English manual, and I do trust B&H. But, of course, if you can get a rebate then it's a different story.

[Deckyon]

I got a kick out of this...

http://www.juergenspecht.com/truestories/flashhelmet/

...hope you enjoy it too.

Awesome... What a flashy way to get attention on the street...

[Deckyon]

A note on the Difuser.

I bought one of the LumniQuest pocket versions that velcro onto the flash. I use it and bounce at the same time. I get good fill-light as well as softer, not so blindingly whte. Rarely do I not have the difuser on the flash. The only time is at my own house, since I have 14' vaulted ceilings, making the bounce w/ difuser too weak.

Just my thoughts...

[Moses]

I stand corrected then. I have read several places that the grey market items will usually receive the manual intended for the country they were originally bound for. Either way, Canon will not warranty them, will they?

[msvadi]

I stand corrected then. I have read several places that the grey market items will usually receive the manual intended for the country they were originally bound for. Either way, Canon will not warranty them, will they?

Some places sell grey units with non-English manual, but not B&H. From B&H you'll get exactly the same flash, same package. Canon will not warranty them, but B&H will.

[roanjohn]

Im going to B&H...........Grey Market?? If it works the same and is cheaper........why not?? Thats what I'm getting. Why can't B&H just charge the same price?? Are they profiting from doing this?? Isn't this practice techincally illegal?? Or am I mistaken??

Ro1

[msvadi]

Im going to B&H...........Grey Market?? If it works the same and is cheaper........why not?? Thats what I'm getting. Why can't B&H just charge the same price?? Are they profiting from doing this?? Isn't this practice techincally illegal?? Or am I mistaken??

Ro1

it's legal:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=11WZjAJtsE!1014569784?O=productlis t.jsp&A=getpage&Q=GreyMarketStatic.jsp

Grey market = direct import. This means that a product was not imported by a manufacturer authorized agent. That's why it's cheaper, they just skipped some steps, but that's exactly why Canon won't warranty such units. In general, it's a good reason to avoid such a product, unless you buy it from a reputable seller that stands behind what he sells.

[mookiemeister]

Alright. I'm getting confused with some people saying the imported version has an English manual and some say no. I bought mine at amazon.com and it comes with BOTH English and French manuals. It also come with a warranty card. This means the purchase is qualified for the $15 rebate, right?

[PaulD]

I bought mine at amazon.com and it comes with BOTH English and French manuals. It also come with a warranty card. This means the purchase is qualified for the $15 rebate, right?

The rebate expired on January 31. If you purchased between October 1 , 2003 and January 31, 2004, you are elligble for the rebate. The rebate form must be received by Canon by February 28, 2004.

Paul

[GenEOS]

The 420 and a g-series can be a little cumbersome. I used a strobaframe and an off camera cord with my G1. It made the combo a lot easier to use.

The 420 takes 4 AA's. I have started using 2100mA NiMh batteries. They seam to cycle the flash a whole lot faster. I just keep a few sets on hand if I am shooting a lot.