High School Football @ Night

[ewilli150]

This is my first (and sad) attempt at high school football game at night. I would love some input on what I can do to improve. I won't be able to use a flash. I used a Canon Rebel XT with Canon 70-200mm 2.8 IS lens. The camera was set on the "Av" setting, 2.8 aperture, 1600 ISO and saved using JPEG.

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2459/img3116ey3.th.jpg (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3116ey3.jpg)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/251/img3126lg7.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3126lg7.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3347/img3180ba2.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3180ba2.jpg)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9467/img3182fw7.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img3182fw7.jpg)

I'm pretty new to this but I'm having a lot of fun learning. TIA

[cubano100pct]

I would not use AV, I would set it to Manual. It looks like is picking a real slow speed. Use 2.8 and 1/125 with IS on. If you do not use IS your speed should not be lower than the focal length. For example at 200mm you would dont want the shutter speed to be lower than 1/200th. With IS you can at least go a couple of steps down.

Here is some info on camera shutter speed.
http://www.basic-digital-photography.com/fundamentals-of-camera-shutter-speed.html

[4x4rock]

Even at ISO 3200, your speed would probably be in the 200 which is not enough to stop the action. I was shooting HS football for the first time last week and was in almost exact condition, too dark even for f2.8 iso 3200. I left before the 1st quater was over because it was only getting darker.

You can also shoot raw and push it 1 stop to get the extra speed and bring it back in post processing.

I'd get some flash to see if you can use it but beside getting the 200/1.8 or tell the school to turn on more lights, there's not much to do.

[MazerRakhm]

IMHO...

For some reason the larger pictures won't load for me, but from what I see of the small pictures and the other reactions it looks like your pictures are a little blurry.

Personally, I think AV is fine, as long as you keep paying attention to your shutter speed. You need to keep it at least 1/250, anything above is a lot better.

I don't know if IS is going to be a lot of help or not, I've heard/read mixed reviews at best, but I've not personally tried it both ways.

If it's dark shoot at ISO 3200! Again, with sports at night it's all about shutter speed. I like my shutter to be around 1/400 if I can. I think it's better to have a good shot with a bit of noise than a blurry shot because your shutter speed isn't fast enough for stop action. If you want get a noise cleaner like Neat Image or Noise Ninja to touch up your pics with, both will also help your pics at 1600 as well.

Like 4x4rock said, if you're hurting for shutter speed at f2.8 even at ISO 3200 (Which is not an uncommon occurrence at some HS fields) you can under expose a little for some extra shutter speed. I end up doing this a lot actually. You can always brighten it a bit in post processing. This method does not have to be RAW only, like I said I do it and I shoot 100% .jpg. I usually keep my underexposing to as little as I can 3/4 to a stop maximum.

Most schools here in IL seem to be fine with some flash from photographers, I have seen them get upset by it though so you will need to check. Or at least look around, if I see others using flash I allways know it's okay. Be warned though that there will be a limit to hof far your flash will go from the sideline. You will need to use High Speed Synch, and at best you will get a little bit of light to mid field, the flash will barely register across the field. I have heard some people get better results with the Better Beamer attachement added onto the flash.

[Sledhed]

I looked at the EXIF and you were around 1/50th @2.8 and ISO 1600. That's just way to slow to stop action. That must have been one dark field because even at 3200 you would not have had enough speed to stop the action. I do the same thing Kevin does and under expose a little to get a faster shutter speed if needed. Under exposing will bring out more noise especially if you have to brighten it up in PS. To help with noise at high ISO your are best to have the SS as close to perfect as possible, that's just not always possible. This was shot at 1/200 @f4 and ISO 3200. It was slightly underexposed to get a little faster SS.

http://static.flickr.com/102/265045753_8b320ff9a6_o.jpg

[ewilli150]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have another game this Friday so we'll see how I do. Hopefully better.

[cecilc]

IMHO...Most schools here in IL seem to be fine with some flash from photographers, I have seen them get upset by it though so you will need to check. Or at least look around, if I see others using flash I allways know it's okay. Be warned though that there will be a limit to hof far your flash will go from the sideline. You will need to use High Speed Synch, and at best you will get a little bit of light to mid field, the flash will barely register across the field. I have heard some people get better results with the Better Beamer attachement added onto the flash.

Yea, I'd take Kevin's advice and see if you can use a flash ... I've never been to a high school football game where flash was not allowed - in fact, all the newspaper shooters use flash at these high school games ..... so I would feel cheated if I couldn't follow suit ..... ;)

Personally, I would stay away from high speed sync ... it actually uses more battery power (which will slow your re-cycle times and limit your ability to maybe trigger 3 or 4 shot bursts) and it's not all that good for your flash, too. Again, personally, I feel that to use flash effectively, you have to shoot very tightly. I've tried the Better Beamer - maybe I wasn't using it correctly (that's always a possiblilty with me!) but I just wasn't happy with the results ... although, as Kevin pointed out, some people get good results using it (they probably know how to use it!).

The following are from last Friday night. Settings were: camera in AV mode at anywhere between f2.8-f4.0; flash on ETTL with no compensation dialed in; shutter speed synch-ed at 1/250; ISO 1250 (I think):

http://www.awesomehouse.com/photos/IMG_1147a.jpg

http://www.awesomehouse.com/photos/IMG_1267a.jpg

http://www.awesomehouse.com/photos/IMG_1301a.jpg

[johnstoy]

# 1 looks out of focus, as the leg of the player further, toward the center of the field, is more in focus...

it does look like a darkened field...

[MDJAK]

My high school recently redid the entire field; turf, stands, press box, and high power lights all around.

Even so, without flash it would be impossible to get any shots.

I shot there this past Friday, from the sidelines, and got pretty good results with my 70-200 f2.8 at 2.8. Shutter speed kept at 200-250, on manual; flash stopped down 1/3-2/3 which allows for faster recycle time. ISO between 1600-3200. Just repurchased Noise Ninja for my MAC. I had it for windoze. It is a great program.

Good luck.

mark

[MDJAK]

My high school recently redid the entire field; turf, stands, press box, and high power lights all around.

Even so, without flash it would be impossible to get any shots.

I shot there this past Friday, from the sidelines, and got pretty good results with my 70-200 f2.8 at 2.8. Shutter speed kept at 200-250, on manual; flash stopped down 1/3-2/3 which allows for faster recycle time.

Good luck.

mark

This is at 250, 2.8, ISO 1600, no Noise Ninja used.
http://i.pbase.com/o5/12/533712/1/68355518.Ha00RYYZ.JOHNJAY2.jpg

[cecilc]

This is at 250, 2.8, ISO 1600, no Noise Ninja used.

I don't know that Mark meant to make a point, but he did anyway ...

And the point is this: if your exposure is a good one (and by that I mean that your histogram is leaning to the right slightly) then noise becomes less of an issue. In the shots I posted above, there was no Noise Ninja used in processing those, either.

[MDJAK]

Cecil,
Apologies. No, I was not referring to your shots which are clearly better. I was not implying that you used a noise reducing program and I didn't. Only reason I said that was in my post above, I recommended Noise Ninja, said I just bought it, but wanted to point out that I didn't run this particular shot through it.
mark

[cecilc]

Cecil,
Apologies. No, I was not referring to your shots which are clearly better. I was not implying that you used a noise reducing program and I didn't. Only reason I said that was in my post above, I recommended Noise Ninja, said I just bought it, but wanted to point out that I didn't run this particular shot through it.
mark

Hey, ... chill Mark .... ;)

I didn't for one minute think you were referring to my shots ... :lol:

The point that I was crediting to you was the fact that if you get your exposures correct - even in low light situations like night football - that noise issues become less of a concern. You proved that with your shot .... your exposure was good, and no noise removal was necessary because of it .....

You did good, man .... but no apologies necessary to me .... I just gave you credit for making that point even if you didn't intend to make the point ....