how much to charge

[jim monroe]

I know this is somewhat related to a couple of old threads back in Oct. 03. In those posts there was some discussion about what to charge for things such as photos of kids playing soccer or photos from a home coming dance, etc. My situation is I think a little different and being new would appreciate anyone's advice.
I often stop in a locally owned coffee and pastry shop. The place opens at 6 a.m. here and is a bright and cheerful place this early in the generally gloomy mornings of western PA this time of year. I took an exterior photo at about this time (6 a.m. basically at night) which shows the place with its christmas lights decorating it and the shot, I think, reflects the cheerfulness and hospitality of the place.
I showed the owner who liked the shot a lot and liked my idea of perhaps using it in some promotional respects such as a christmas/business card or calenders for next year, to be sent to suppliers, regular custormers, etc.
So any suggestions as to how I should go about being fairly compensated in a case like this where I am not selling say an 8 by 10 copy?

[Scottes]

Was the intent of a sale known to the owner when you showed the pic, or at least is it now? If not, can you take the chance of upsetting the owner, considering that you're a regular customer? If so, what's it worth in continued service, "unadvertised specials" and the like? And more importantly does it have value as a referral item?

My fear is that you showed him a nice pic, and when he likes it you mention money, and suddenly he doesn't like you or the pic any more. Does the pic have value in some other way?

[iwatkins]

Is the coffee good ?

If so I would suggest he can use the image anyway he likes for as long as he likes for free coffee for a month. 8)

Cheers

Ian

[jim monroe]

For some clarification,
When I showed the picture to the owner she mentioned purchasing it. But by "it" I don't know if that meant the copy I was showing her or something more general like the copyright so she would have complete free use for whatever she felt appropriate. If someone purchases an 8 by 10 my understanding is that they aren't free to go and reproduce it however they want. Purchasing a single copy is the kind of thing I have seen discussed here before but purchasing something that then might be reproduce for 300 christmas cards seems different.
I think I have seen discussions here where people have said to never sell the negative which is what I believe I would be doing at least digitally in this case of giving someone unlimited rights to reproduce, but I can't see a problem with that in this case. Actually I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why there would be such a statement of not selling the negative in many cases but in some I guess I could.

Yes the coffee is good so I had already thought of an exchange along the lines of a swap in this manner.

[bugs]

Hi Jim,

I'd definitely go for the coffee option - sounds like a sweet deal as these coffee shops can be quite pricy, at least here in Denmark.

/ Johnny

[Scottes]

Yes the coffee is good so I had already thought of an exchange along the lines of a swap in this manner.

Take the coffee, ask if they can put your name on anything they produce with the photo, and run with it. Sounds like a good deal and it sounds like you're already thinking this way.

[new girl on the bloc]

i think the idea of it being a promotional tool will pay you a lot more in the long run than a few bucks in your pocket now.

what about an exchange of her displaying some of your photos in the coffee shop to get some exposure and possibly sales?

[hickory]

jim,

are you ready to go into the business at least part time? getting your name on a promotional item might be a start for you. and if you have photos in stock already to hang at the coffee shop this could be your big break :shock: either way go for the coffee and donuts, I also live in western Pa and this time of year there is little to get excited about, especially with the crappy weather :wink:

tom in mercer co.

[Fotochik_CA]

Selling a print and selling the copyright so to speak are two very different things. First of you dont have to sell the copyright...meaning you can sell a limited usage print to the coffee shop. That way you can still maintain ownership and yet the coffe house can use it in advertising. This just requires a simple written agreement stating what you give permission for. BY Keeping your name on the photo you also get advertising in every ad they put up. Try to give a fair price as they are small and it sounds like you are new to this. The added exposure of your work has value alone. I am afraid that I cannot give you a figure as it really depends on a) where you are B) what your market will allow and C) your experience.
Dont go for the coffee thing if you are serious about commercial photography....Your skill and product are worth some cash.

SO ...I am not a commercial photographer I am a portrait and fine art photographer so this is just a guess.... When I sell a fine art print in 8x10 size I sell it for $45 Canadian if I was to include a limited waiver of my copyright I would probably double that anyway..... Many commercial photogs when hired charge $100 an hour plus costs. I would probably lower my cost a bit if I could get more work from the coffee shop again or if they would allow me some promotional space. In fact if I was given promotional space and it was a busy coffee shop I might waive the extra feee for the copyright waiver. Promotion can be costly so if you can get it take it.

But charge some money otherwise you devalue your work.

[jim monroe]

Thanks for all the advice. Many people mentioned the promotioncal aspects and that is probably most important. As it happens the owner does have presently some old historical photos up now and had planned for periodic turnover but never got around to it. I mentioned even before taking the photo of her place that I had a number of photos which might be appropriate and be a positive for her place and without saying it, positive for me as well.
I need to follow up on this.
Thanks again for the advice.

[scout]

Jim, I do not post often... tend to lurk. However, yesterday I ran across this link that discusses the difference between; copyright, license, etc. lots of info.

http://www.apanational.com/value/

Scout out

[GenEOS]

:shock:
Damn, I wish Starbucks would present this problem to me.
I would let an image go to their usage for free coffee for life.

[defordphoto]

Also here is a stock photo price calculator. It's help give you some guidelines. http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm
You need to charge the maximum your particular market can afford and that is the trick. Figuring out what your client can afford. Once price might work for one client, and then the next client can handle it. Always make your prices negotiable. It's tough to figure out, and many people will say: "That much? It's just a picture!" Sometimes it's hard getting around that mentality.

And here are my prices for some raceboat photos I have on my site for limited licensing. They are a bit low, but that's due to this market I am target is not in the rich category. Even at that I may have difficulty seelling these rights, but I am certainly not going to give them away. I work too hard for these photos and you need to remember that your camera equipment didn't drop from the heavens. But, in your particular case it was a casual kind of thing so sometimes you have to give a little too, but make absolutely sure you get credits.

Is this coffee shop setup for maybe displaying some of your work (for sale)? Maybe this photo can buy you some wall space.

Anyway, my prices for the boat stuff:

Limited use photo pricing

There are five tiers of limited use and purchasers are required to sign a contract before use.

The pricing below is for production of material NOT FOR SALE. For sale material requires an entirely different pricing structure.

1. $125.00: One use, one time, limited use. The use of one photo for the creation of one product for one time only.
2. $250.00: Multiple use, one time, limited use. The use of one photo for the creation of multiple products (up to three) for one time only.
3. $375.00: One use, multiple time, limited use. The use of one photo for the creation of one product, multiple times (three).
4. $500.00: Multiple use, multiple time, limited use. The use of one photo for the creation of multiple products (up to three), multiple times (three).
5. $1,000.00: One year, unlimited use, unlimited time, limited use. The use of one photo for the creation of unlimited products for an unlimited number of times.

[JABACo]

I would do the "barter" thing. Print her a nice copy with or without your name or logo and maybe some shots inside with the regulars and patrons. She could have those framed and mounted inside as well. I'd trade this for coffee for life or until the New Orleans Saints win the Super Bowl.

Bradley

[IndyJeff]

Jim what you could do is talk to her and tell her you want to make some money with your camera, just not all of it off her. Get with a local press, i.e.printing house, and get a price on a 8x10 picture 12 month calender for a 500 and 1000 run production. Dont forget about setup costs either.
Add 20% for the 500 and 15% for the 1000 run and then add $125 for your photo.
Take her a proposal for each run and have it broken down with a per cost basis. As far as your image cost for her the 500 run would be 25 cents, 12.5 for 1000. You still make 125 for each. Be sure to ask her how many she thinks she can give away. You don't want her sitting there with a box of 750 calenders in July that nobody wants.
Also tell her you can do this and give her this good of a price because you will have your name and contact info on each page, if she agrees.

Photo by Jim
555-555-5555
Your town, State

Without the contact info the price would just about double. By adding the 15-20% you still give some room for negotiation on price. Maybe you could drop the % add on if at the bottom you could run a small ad about your services. It won't cost you anything out of pocket and she will be providing the money and handing it out the product with your ad on it.

Good luck and don't give up on the idea.