Concert Photography Tips: A FAQ Perhaps

[DwightMcCann]

Many of the other forums seem to have threads devoted to the most often asked questions very similar to a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) so I thought it might be useful here. I see the same questions asked and answered over and over which is time consuming and boring and hope we can circumvent some of that. I don't really know the best format so I thought I'd just lay out some musings and see where it goes. Please, do not post questions into this thread ... it is for answers! :-)

If you really want to maximize your learning then just start reading the concert related posts cover to cover starting almost anywhere and proceeding through the forum. For newbies to concert photography it is likely that you will find your own questions or questions that you will soon ponder have been answered repeatedly. Many of the posts will give references to other material including websites and Photoshop actions and tutorials. Please Note: some threads get tedious and can be ignored and some threads get contentious and should be avoided. If you run into someone who seems to always be an irritant or always finds some fault or insult or issue where none is intended please note that there is an "Ignore List" feature at POTN ... just go to the UserCP area and block that person's userid. It is amazing how just two or three ids in your Ignore List can brighten your whole POTN experience. :-)

If you really want to maximize feedback and critique then start by using a meaningful title. Titles like "My First Concert" or "My First Submission" or "Newbie: C&C Please" are pretty off putting and useless. Try something like "Butterfingers & Twinkletoes @ Wrinkleford on Thames: Critique Please". In general having the artist/band/performer and the venue in the title is optimal. It also makes it easier for others who may have or will soon shoot the same act or place to find information.

For best feedback post five to eight images. You can embed two hosted at POTN but you would be better to link (meaning they are at your own website somewhere) the whole eight. Provide links to websites with additional images. Just posting a link to a webpage with a zillion almost identical images and saying, "I wanted to show everything" tends to get a cool response, too. Explain what is going on. Also go to the UserCP page and turn Image Editing OK so that others can edit your images and repost to show you how they would do something.

To increase the amount of feedback/comments you get, do at least two things: (1) Make commenters feel welcome ... acknowledge criticism as valuable even if you disagree with it and don't whine that you wanted some other type of advice ... no one here is paid to be your therapist! :-) If someone comments on your thread in a way that offends you, take responsibility for your half ... perhaps you were whining that there were 3333 views and no comments and they felt sorry for you, but don't just attack them. It does no good to say, "Only 13% of your words addressed the issues I wanted you to comment on and 63% were just drivel." If you want comments then you have to accept that they are not all going to be exactly what you want. Don't be so OCD! Relax! People here are trying to be helpful but we all have bad days. (2) Go out of your way to comment in as many other threads as possible. It is lame to say, "I am not expert enough to make a comment" or "I'm only here to learn, not offer advice." It comes across as sounding like you feel entitled to mentoring just because you showed up ... and you aren't. And you can always just say how you like the images someone else has slaved over to produce.

Ask specific questions. Questions like, "How could I do better?" tend to generate thoughts like, "By not posting!" But something like, "Are there tricks for dealing with stage smoke?" or "What lens do most use for this type of concert?" will bring out the most experienced to offer suggestions, particularly if you make it clear you have already gone looking through posts using the search facilities provided. Or better yet, find posts with images/techniques you like and ask specific questions about how they were done, what equipment, what post processing, what the lighting was like ... anything that you would like to emulate.

Don't whine about not getting any comments! I posted a picture of my wife yesterday in the G&N forum. There have been 1,293 views and ZERO comments. I did get one indirect comment from a guy because I posted in another guy's thread that I didn't think his portrait was glamor to yet another person and this guy felt utterly compelled to comment on my comment because my picture wasn't glamor ... even though I had explained why I had posted it. Please don't be a thread monitor, at least not until you have a lot of experience with the people involved ... we have moderators who are the only authorized "Hall Monitors" and you'll look like an idiot defending someone who hasn't asked for you to be their white knight. [Note: I often get PMs asking me to look at a particular thread and comment when I have time ... if you have made friends here at POTN you might try that tactic until you run out of friends because you keep nagging them! :-) ]

Try not to be a Wuss: It serves no useful purpose for you to take any comment as a personal attack ... really, chest butting in a thread or sending PMs to people about how they hurt your feelings or how you think they ought to act reflects more on your issues than on whatever insult you think they have committed. 99.99% of the time you don't know the offender personally or have a sense of their background or style but even if they are BAD PEOPLE it really doesn't matter. This is the Internet and you should just let these little upsets go ... they are really infantile on your part regardless of what was done! If someone does something bad, contact a moderator or sue them, but keep it off the threads.

Where are you? It often helps to know where you are: Chicago or Liverpool or Vuulputtenfarber? [Sorry Olli, Kalle and Rene!] There are big cultural differences and it helps to know them.

What equipment do you have? It would do no good for me to say, "Use your 300mm f/2.8L IS in this situation" if you don't have one. EXIF metadata is optimal. If you don't know what this is then do a Google search or read my Q&A ... you need to know about it.

By now you probably want some specific suggestions so here we go:
In low light shoot with fastest ISO you have. You need to know what your camera can do. We have forums that can help immensely with this.
If you shoot in low light a lot and only have the kit lens then you need to consider getting the 50mm f/1.8 for around $75USD.
Don't cut off the guitar heads.
Use a tripod or monopod with bigger lenses.
FACES, Faces, faces. People are about faces.
Minimize flash, but if you have to use it, learn all the fancy techiques from bouncing off the back wall or your white shirt to "Shutter Drag" techniques.
Sharpen after resizing.
Learn how to do Custom White Balance even if you shoot RAW.
Learn about RAW.
To others interested in this idea I have no sense of ownership. I would be happy to have this thread deleted and a newer and more organized one started. I would be happy to have anyone add their own tips, trick, suggestions. I would be unhappy to have religious arguments about "Legends", "RAW", Canon vs Nikon or other chest butting.

[tommykjensen]

Good idea Dwight. I will stick this thread for You. And if the thread needs cleaning up to keep it as informative as possible just PM any moderator.



EDIT: I have deleted the off topic posts that served no purpose in this thread. If you don't can or don't want to contribute to this effort then don't post.

[René Damkot]

Some more thoughts:
- When posting multiple images: Number them. Makes giving critique a little easier.
- Don't be to worried about noise. Try shooting Tmax 3200 once. Really puts things in perspective ;)
- Crop images. Get the subject out of the center of the frame.
- It might be nice to put in a link to the bands website (if any) for those curious for their music. (When you would like to know weather they sound as good (or bad :p) as they look)

[kmb]

Okay, let's see if I can give any helpufl advice...

These all are from a Finnish perspective (not that it matters for most of the advice).

1. Getting credentials/photo pass/permissions
- Ask from the band. Where I live, nobody pays for web-size pictures in gallery form (perhaps web advertising would be another case). It just does not happen. So I usually just give away the web gallery sized pictures to the artist (it is of course one way of advertising my services) in exchange of a photo pass.
- Ask from the festival/concert organizer
- Think of yourself as a professional, even if you are not. What words would a professional use when trying to get the credentials? If you come out as a fan-hobbyist, the person at the other end might think that you're perhaps more interested in other things than photogrpahy
- As soon as possible create a (good) web portfolio. Pay attention to presentation, post processing and sharpening. Link this porfolio forward. Before you have this, you should practice with small bands
- Mention that you're not going to use flash, that you'll pay special attention to not to annoy the artist or audience (if these are true)
- DO NOT give away full size professional pictures for "any usage" for free. You'd be eating somebody else's bread. You should get fair compensation.

2. (Mental) perparation
- Think what the band is about. What's their thing? What are they good at? Then think how to capture that. For instance, if it's heavy metal, you definitely want to get some intensive ("angry") expressions, energy, sweat. If it's a girl band with beautiful girls, you might want to watch for smiles, sweet or tender moments.
http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/albums/userpics/10002/thumb_5D_2006-07-28_22-38-10_6397.jpg (http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/displayimage.php?pos=-13) http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/albums/userpics/10002/thumb__MG_9815.jpg (http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/displayimage.php?pos=-69)
- If you can, take a look at the band's live performances on videos before the gig. See if you can find any interesting moments, mannerisms or some such that you'll want to photograph. You might encounter a Déjà vu moment in the concert!

3. Minding the performer and audience
- Don't be on the artists face
- Wear black. It's the least distracting color. If it's an indoors gig, you'll blend into the darkness
- Don't use flash, unless absolutely necessary (99,5% of the cases it isn't), or unless you've gotten a permission from the band for that
- Be friendly to the security personell. Help them in simple matters.
- Remember that the concert is not for you. It's for the paid audience who are there to enjoy the gig. They're the kings. Of coures, if you have a job to do, you have to make sure you get the shots.

4. General guidelines for choosing angles, compositions & such
- Don't take close-ups of the performers' faces from a steep angle below them. All you'll see is nostrills
- Don't take wide angle shots of women performers. It often doesn't look wery flattering
- Mind the background! unwanted clutter in the background will result to medicore pictures at best. Wach for smoke. When it starts to approach the performer from behind, It'll provide a very clean backdrop.
http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/albums/userpics/10002/thumb__MG_2734.jpg (http://kuvat.huumakuva.net/displayimage.php?pos=-459)

To Be Continued.

[René Damkot]

Some good tips.
Another one: Set your camera to Tungsten for WB. This is the main light source after all. Don't be to worried about skin tones being of; those color gels are there for a reason ;)
Alternatively, use K and set color temp to 2800 to 3400K depending on taste and front light color. (use 2800 when dominent 'warm' and 3400 when dominant 'cool' lighting is used.)
In some instances a CWB might be the way to go.
Shooting RAW can be usefull as well.

Some thoughts on post processing:
For resizing images for web use: Take a look at this Photoshop action (http://news.deviantart.com/article/20250/). I find it to be very nice (with a little modification)
Take care of your channels. In concert photography very often colored lighting is used, and it's *very* easy to blow out a single channel.
A remedy can be found here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/restore-clipped.shtml), or you can use photoshops 'channel mixer'. Take a look here (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1503167&postcount=8) for an example.
Also: A USM of about 15%; radius 150; threshold 0 can be a nice way to 'cut through haze'.

[gcobb]

If you really want to maximize your learning then just start reading the concert related posts cover to cover starting almost anywhere and proceeding through the forum. For newbies to concert photography it is likely that you will find your own questions or questions that you will soon ponder have been answered repeatedly. Many of the posts will give references to other material including websites and Photoshop actions and tutorials.

My computer career began partly because I read what others had to offer. In the same aspect, I've read in here since April. I've picked up a lot of good info, did trial and error and I think I have improved greatly as a result.

If you see conflicting opinions, remember that part of it may just be preference. Try both and see what works for you.

[johnstoy]

A simple method to help Critique posted photos:

I find it is convenient to view the photos side by side, while writing (typing) the actual critique...Therefore:

Open a second and identical web page, side by side...

Fit it to half the screen size vertically for the convenience of viewing the pictures...the second identical web page, should also be sized to half the screen size vertically and positioned side by side...

Now you can scroll the pictures down and up for review and re-review...while typing the critique side by side...

This will produce a lot more of a comparative opinion... hopefully in a complimentary, constructive and positive way.

John

[DwightMcCann]

It is pretty clear that image excellence is half or less of the key to success. As important or more important are connections. You need to get to know people: band members, management, record label people, promoters, venues, lighting directors, audio directors, DJs from radio stations or other radio personalities, bar managers, program managers, talent buyers and anyone associated with the type of shooting you want to do. Network!

Whenever I am in a shooting situation where I may interact or be introduced to people I keep a small stack of my business cards (yes, get some business cards and a website) in my front left pocket. When I reach out to shake hands (I always reach out to shake hands) with my right hand I pull a business card out of my left pocket and pass it over. I am fortunate in that I am not looking for work, so I always say, "I am not looking for work but I have a lot of great images on my website." These two things really seem to make people happy and relaxed. If I get a chance I say that I am "as good as it gets." After all, I am not asking them for anything and they can look at my images and decide for themselves. And to cut you off early, no, I am not better than a lot of folks here on POTN or elsewhere, but I can deliver stunning images over and over and over without a lot of excuses ... I may have to ask Rene, or Kalle, or Richard, or someone else for help but I can deliver. Work hard until you can deliver every time.

When I am shooting a concert I look for the most intensely dedicated fans. When I find them I walk over, introduce myself (which gets them my business card that I pull out of my left front pocket as I shake hands with them) and say, "In a week or two my images from this concert will be on my website and you are welcome to take them for personal use." This promotes both the talent and me. People love it! The guy with the big lenses sees that they are special and wants to share with them. Making people feel special is always a good thing. It is good for your karma and good for your reputation. Build a great reputation and they will come! Often these fans will be the ones who are running websites ... this can lead to opportunities to peddle images!

[DwightMcCann]

The question of pricing often arises and can be tricky to try to answer, so I judge it best to refer folks to online pricing guides for freelance photography. Since I noted one for the UK for ShesGotThePic I thought I'd start a post in here for them. If others have URLs we can always consolidate if you will add a post.

UK: http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/photo.html
USA:http://www.d-65.com/photographersonly/pricing.html

Thanks to POTN member Dansumption I am also adding a link to an explanation of how freelance rates are calculated. It is UK based, as is the first link above, but the conversion is simple and the rationale provided quite clear and concise.

UK: http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/phdaytxt.html

And since I am subscribed to the following thread I should also mention an ongoing discussion of pricing located at http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61210 that is long but well worth the read.

[DwightMcCann]

Since I removed the link to my 'Talking About Photography' Q&A about what I do from my signature block I am going to post it here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81761 ... read it until you get bored.

[DwightMcCann]

Links Mentioned by Rene:

Sharpening:
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/techniques/usm/better_than_usm.htm
http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs9/f/2006/044/e/8/Manyk_Web_Sharpening_Action.pdf

Clipped Channels
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/restore-clipped.shtml

Resizing
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/29038461/

Digital Watermark Branding and a Slew of Other Amazing PS Tips and Tricks
http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html

[narlus]

i'd add this one as well, very good advice for blending exposures:

http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/...dExposures.mov

[blackshadow]

hi- bringing my canon digital rebel to an outdoor live concert tomorrow (starting at about noon) with many bands (Bamboozle)
i know some basics but want advice from experienced photographers on how to get some good shots!
ANY TIPS ARE APPRECIATED-
composing the shot, camera settings, etc
i'll post any pictures that turn out next week after the show...

It's a little hard to give advice on camera settings without knowing the conditions you are shooting in, the lenses you are using etc.

I don't know how large the venue is you are shooting; if you have pit access or not etc.

Generally when I shoot outdoor gigs they are pretty big events so I generally whack the 70-200 f2.8 on and don't change it. If it is a smaller event I usually use a 24-70 f2.8. I adjust aperture and ISO accordingly and try to keep my shutter speed above 1/125 or 1/160 for outdoor gigs.

If you are shooting from the crowd you will probably need a longer lens to make the most of it.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your results posted in the forum.

[DwightMcCann]

Jerry Klein just pointed out that we don't have a link for the Opanda browser plug-in that allows you to see EXIF and IPTC data in your browser, so here it is: http://opanda.com/! This is a MUST HAVE for photographers and is FREE!

[DwightMcCann]

Multiple Camera Time Synchronization: if you shoot with two or more bodies (I often use four these days and soon to be five) and put all images together, say in a folder, and would like to have them sorted into the order in which they were taken; or, if you shoot the same event with several photographers and merge the images and wish to see them in chronological order, here's a tip I got from Chris Fritchie: hook each camera up to the same computer and set the time using the 'use computer time' feature of the EOS Utility. You can then sort the images (in most programs) by the times they were shot. I now do this before renaming so that the sequence numbers are in chronological order. [Note: I have discovered that there is substantial clock skew in my bodies so I have to resync them about every week.]

Prior to using this clever tip I would have all the 300mm f/2.8 images, then all the 70-200mm f/2.8 images and then all the fisheye images clumped together. If I saw something in a 70mm frame that I wanted to see if I had something with the 300mm I had to hunt through images to find it ... now they are all grouped together and it is pretty simple. And it is a much more logical way to do culling.

I know not a lot of us have multiple bodies, but more and more of us are shooting the same events and as we all get richer and more famous because we are learning so much from POTN we will have more bodies.

Edit: I have learned that camera clocks slip a lot. Since I trade bodies back and forth pretty intensely for ten or fifteen minutes even a few seconds can screw up the order so I urge doing the time sync thing before each event.

[Posidon324]

Jerry Klein just pointed out that we don't have a link for the Opanda browser plug-in that allows you to see EXIF and IPTC data in your browser, so here it is: http://opanda.com/! This is a MUST HAVE for photographers and is FREE!

There is also a Firefox add-on that allows you to pull EXIF info (both locally and remote).

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3905

Enjoy.

[René Damkot]

Anbd off course, there is Jeffry's Exif Viewer (http://regex.info/blog/other-writings/online-exif-image-data-viewer/). About the only option when using Safari.
(I really wish Firefox would color manage...)

[DwightMcCann]

Model Release Links:

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

[DwightMcCann]

Sharpen After Resizing: Over and over again people need to be reminded that resizing an image, particularly smaller, usually requires sharpening/re-sharpening, AFTER the resizing. Resizing merges pixels and loses edge contrast which makes the images look soft. When you resize for the web you almost always need to resharpen. BUT be aware that resizing/sharpening should only be once per size. Don't take your original image, resize to one size, sharpen, then take that image and resize, sharpen again, and then again. Always go back to the original size to each new size.

[gcobb]

On Topic: Opera is a good browser that not only eliminates the vulnerabilities with Internet Explorer, but will show you exif data when right clicking on any image that contains that information. It also supports native tabbed browsing.

[René Damkot]

Try this rticle: Click (http://news.deviantart.com/article/20250/)
Here is a direct link to the zipped action: Click (http://www.kevinthom.com/Manyk_SRS_PSAction.zip)

[FugiTive]

Try this rticle: Click (http://news.deviantart.com/article/20250/)
Here is a direct link to the zipped action: Click (http://www.kevinthom.com/Manyk_SRS_PSAction.zip)
Yeah, that's where I was trying to download the action from but it kept timing out. It works now - guess the website must have been having DNS issues.

I've attached the action to this post so at least if it happens again there will be a copy stored here =)

[DwightMcCann]

Registering Copyright: I am slowly being forced to investigate some aspects of Copyright. I am very open to being corrected but I believe the Readers' Digest Condensed Version is, "Your work (photographs) are copyrighted at the instant they are created in the camera unless you have contracted them to someone else in writing. You may be able to recover actual damages if your copyright is violated, but this may not even cover your legal costs. If you register your images with the Library of Congress, you may also be entitled to punitive damages which can be substantial." Without going further into this morass, sfaust provided these links as a starting point for learning about registering your copyrighted images:

http://www.peterkrogh.com/copyright/main.html
http://www.sethresnick.com/photograp...tregister.html
http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2001/66fr37142.html
http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/copyright/

If anyone else has better information or perhaps step-by-step instructions on registering hundreds (for most of us) or tens of thousands (at least me) of images please either add your post to this thread or send me the information to replace this post. As I work my way through this I will try to make notes and/or update the URLs above. One of the items in which I am interested is how much "punitive damages" really are.

The reason this has suddenly become important, at least to me, is due to a very, very clever observation by sfaust that one may need to protect the interests of ones clients with respect to images in which one retains copyright. In plainer language, I shoot for the Chumash Casino Resort (among others). Many of those images are posted for public viewing. If someone uses one of those images in a way defamatory to my client, the Chumash Casino Resort, or to its owners, the Santa Ynez Band of the Chumash Indians, we will want to sue such abusers into the stone age for the copyright violations without having prove any other intent. This is only possible with registered copyright.

[DwightMcCann]

Rene's RAW Blending Tutorial:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=362356

[René Damkot]

A thread on how to keep on shooting if you've managed to break a lever in your 1D2: Click (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=386058).

Might come in handy some day...

[René Damkot]

Sharpening in LR: How does it work (http://lightroom-news.com/lightroom-11-update/sharpening/).

[DwightMcCann]

IPTC & Google Alerts: letting Google keep an eye out for stuff.
I exhibit a lot of my work online at DwightMcCann.com. It is all copyright by me and I have clear notices that it is not to be copied (or downloaded but of course you can't look at it if you don't download it ... sometimes we have to say weird things to cover ourselves) but sometimes folks copy it anyway. That's mostly OK with me if they use it just for themselves. But sometimes they do other, infringing activities. One guy was selling my Taylor Swift images via eBay and I had to ask him to stop because Taylor's Mom objected to the language he was using to advertise. There have been a few other instances. But this week I was asked by Luis Miguel to remove my images of him from the web which I did immediately. Today I got a Google Alert that my images of Luis Miguel were on Flickr in someone's gallery and were public. Google Alerts allow you to request an email whenever keywords you specify are discovered by the Google search engines. I've been doing this for several years and it is amazing! But the reason Google knew the images were mine was that I put IPTC data in all my images and try to ensure that it remains when I upload to my galleries. Flickr exposes IPTC data in some of its image display formats and was where it caught Jezabell Suad with her hand in my cookie jar. I currently only do Google Alerts for my name. Anyway, I recommend Google Alerts for everyone who posts on the web: http://www.google.com/alerts and hardily encourage adding and preserving IPTC data in your images.

So here we are, three weeks later and Flickr has continued to ignore my Notice of Infringement for these nine images. I will finally make the time over the Thanksgiving holiday to register the images and then turn the case over to an IP attorney, sigh.

[DwightMcCann]

Whats the best way to do this as stage lighting changes in brightness and colour?

Cheers

It's not the concerts with the big deal Atomic lights and spotlights, etc., where this is valuable, but the smaller venues with consistently poor lighting where it is useful. You do have to get to the stage and use a gray card or one of those amazingly expensive ExpoDisc's. Anyway, if you don't know how to set white balance for your camera you should read the instructions or go to the equipment forums. Learn to do it in ten seconds or less so that when it would be useful you won't hesitate ... it is really trivial and vastly improves the look of images shot in ugly fluorescent or incandescent lighting. If you shoot in RAW it can save time in post processing plus it may give better results than hand adjusting since it sets temperature and hue both.

[narlus]

but dwight, if you do set a custom white balance using stage lighting before the band gets on, doesn't that just suit that one lighting condition? when the lights change (colors), doesn't that custom white balance no longer apply?

[BOUNCINGNRG]

Dwight,

Sorry, i ment what narlus is talking about, as the lighting changes when the bands come on.

Cheers

[René Damkot]

I'd say that a CWB has it's place, but not with a band onstage with colored lights, burning at different levels all the time. The lights get more warm (color temp) as they are dimmed. Different color gels further screw up things.

It can be useful if lighting is consistent.

[DwightMcCann]

but dwight, if you do set a custom white balance using stage lighting before the band gets on, doesn't that just suit that one lighting condition? when the lights change (colors), doesn't that custom white balance no longer apply?

I'd say that a CWB has it's place, but not with a band onstage with colored lights, burning at different levels all the time. The lights get more warm (color temp) as they are dimmed. Different color gels further screw up things.

It can be useful if lighting is consistent.

I think you guys need to go back and read my comment again ... doesn't "fluorescent & incandescent" give you a clue? :-) :confused: C'mon, I have a little experience. I have always said that if there is an LD you should just AWB because they work hard to get the effects they want ... even if they aren't always good. Now, if we were talking boxing I'd say CWB was ESSENTIAL and may be why Showtime hired me Friday night! :lol::lol::lol:

[narlus]

I think you guys need to go back read my comment again ... doesn't "fluorescent & incandescent" give you a clue? :-) :confused: C'mon, I have a little experience.

but to rené's point, different gels of incandescent lighting would give different WB results. if you just set one when the stage is lit w/ say red and yellow gels, it'll totally be different under green and blue lighting, right? and the comment about different intensities also stands.

anyway, can you set a custom white balance in RAW?

i usually just use either 'auto' or 'tungsten' in ACR as a start, and then tweak temp and tint as needed, if at all. if i am working on various photos w/ the same lighting, i'll set one, and then use the 'synchronize' option on the others which are common. however, this doesn't work for the entire batch if varying light conditions are seen throughout.

[René Damkot]

I think you guys need to go back read my comment again ... doesn't "fluorescent & incandescent" give you a clue?

That's why I said "It can be useful if lighting is consistent."
I was trying to clarify, but apparently not very good at it :D

Boxing would be an example, a theatre show or classical concert maybe as well.

Narlus: Yes, CWB is possible when shooting Raw. I use it in the studio all the time.

[narlus]

warning - acronym overload!

does the CWB when shooting RAW only get applied if you are using DPP? how can you get it to work if you use ACR?

[DwightMcCann]

I believe that most converters have an option for WB called "as shot" that uses whatever white balance settings were in the camera. I have found, based mostly on boxing images, that it is superior to finding a neutral color in the image after the fact or adjusting by eye.

When I said "incandescent" I didn't say "incandescent with gels" ... and was really talking about those three bare-bulb joints such where I started shooting bands ... well, actually they only had one bulb in a three bulb fixture, sigh. Anyway, I'm not irritated at all ... this is exactly the kind of issue that is very hard to discuss on the 'net. Yes, Rene, whenever the lighting is very consistent it is an opportunity to use CWB and if you shoot RAW and don't like it you can always shift it around ... as you can with jpg's although you will lose a lot more detail.

As a side note, you damn RAW zealots have pushed me so hard I am shooting boxing in RAW now ... a huge PITA ... oh, wait, yes, Showtime hired me AFTER I started shooting RAW. [Disclaimer: Showtime licensed my images from one weigh-in and fight card. I have no contract with them beyond a handshake due to the rushness of the arrangement but I trust them implicitly. Anyway, they may never want my work again and I don't mean to suggest that I am somehow on their staff.]

[DwightMcCann]

Please note that new rules allowing images up to 1024 x 1024 pixels have been posted by Pekka starting for 2008 ... now that I have totally altered my workflow to accommodate 800 x 800 pixel images, sigh.

[DwightMcCann]

Warming or otherwise changing the color cast of your flash can be desirable so as to make it less obvious. Adding gels is one way to do this and is particularly useful when one particular channel seems to get blown, usually magenta. Bacchanal provided a couple of B&H links of interest.

I've seen several interesting ways to mount the gel samples on the flash, but I just stick one inside a Stofen Omnibounce.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45189-REG/Rosco_950SBLUX0103_Roscolux_Swatchbook.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407175-REG/Sto_Fen_OM_EW_OM_EW_Omni_Bounce_for_Canon.html

Generally the idea is to use a CTO warming gel to match the flash color to the ambient light color, but there are many possibilities.

[DwightMcCann]

Ah, we have a thread for Club Questions! Go to to http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=363560 and see what you can learn.

[Paul Tinworth]

Dwight or someone else would be more qualified to answer your questions, but I'll have a go!

BOUNCINGNRG: Always approach the band management, even if it is a courtesy! Mention the fact you'd like to use your shots for commercial use, but be prepared for a bit of a fight; they may want compensation if they're a big-label band. Always be up-front and honest. I can't answer your second question, but good luck!

UmphreyBogart: Fast primes (f/1.4+) and fast zooms (f/2.8, but nothing below f/4)! Your 50mm will serve you well if you can nail the exposure and not let it hunt around in low-light. Depending on your budget you may want to rent something in the 70-200 range (your 75-300 will have difficulty), and perhaps something wider. Contact the band regarding flash; if you are allowed to use it on the odd occasion (never over-do it for fear of pissing off the band or losing nice coloured lighting), then perhaps it'd be worth renting one too.

I hope I'm not far off. Good luck!

[BOUNCINGNRG]

BOUNCINGNRG: Always approach the band management, even if it is a courtesy! Mention the fact you'd like to use your shots for commercial use, but be prepared for a bit of a fight; they may want compensation if they're a big-label band. Always be up-front and honest. I can't answer your second question, but good luck!


Cheers Paul, i've sort of answered my own 2nd question, i've just contacted loades of band management and now got 3 gigs to shoot next week, yay!!

I just really need to get my head arounf the business of freelance photography, how i sell the photos to that sort of thing


Mention the fact you'd like to use your shots for commercial use
When i contact the bands/management, i say they can have the webshots and i keep the full size images for my use.

Cheers

[DwightMcCann]

I wanted to mention (at the possibility of repeating myself) that I am currently reviewing my equipment, including how I pack/haul it with me, what I have in each Pelican case, a short explanation of most items and how I use them on my blog linked from my .sig. When I have gone through the equipment I will talk about how I use it at concerts and fights. If I am still alive when this is done, I will be working my way through my little studio complete with 'behind the scenes' images. And by that time I should also have a little "Strobist" style equipment set and will discuss it. My current goal is two posts per week and they include images of the items. My blog is not my primary gallery so you generally won't see just another copy of the images I post here or there in my blog. When I get to the concert specific posts I will mention it in my posts here. I hope this self promotion is of enough general interest to warrant an inclusion here.

[narlus]

here's a thread on best shooting positioning if there's no pit:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=499190

[letsmakeart]

bouncing flash on the "back wall" if that back wall happens to be behind you, where the crowd is, makes you a twat.

Do not go bouncing light if its going to stun members of the audience.

[PhotosGuy]

Late to the party, but here's a good thread with a lot of advice on shooting as well as:
EveryMilesAMemory on Acquiring Press Credentials (http://www.patbonishphotography.com/aquiring_press_credentials.htm)

[DwightMcCann]

For concert photographers there is an excellent website, The Music Press Report, where you can sign up for a weekly e-newsletter (free) as well as buy an e-book entitled "Guide to the Music Press, 2008". I have both bought the download and am in the download, although I have not reviewed it yet. If you are trying to break into the professional concert photography business I strongly urge you to take advantage of these materials.

[René Damkot]

Beautiful thread! Thanks for all the advice. Is there a dedicated concert photo thread on here?

Not a dedicated thread. There is (this) dedicated sharing section.

For technical questions (what camera, what settings, etc) you're best off in the "Sharing Knowhow" sections of POTN.

[René Damkot]

Okay. I've cleaned this thread up a bit.
Some general questions were removed.
If you have a tech question (what lens etc.), don't post it here. Go to the appropriate "Sharing Knowhow" section of the forum, and have a look there.

[DwightMcCann]

Bracketing: I have just reread this thread and didn't see where bracketing was mentioned. Since Rene and I have argued about this a few times I thought I'd mention that even though I shoot RAW I also bracket +/- one stop on each exposure. The bodies I have owned are clever enough such that if you set them on multidrive (You know, that 3fps thing ... mine at 10fps) and bracketing, you need only press and hold the shutter release and they will fire off one set of brackets. [Please note that if you invoke mirror lock-up, neither this special bracketing function nor multidrive work.]

In our discussion, Rene pointed out that one could lose the desired image even in the 1/10th second between the first image and the second when bracketing (assuming that the first image would be incorrectly exposed such as -1 compensation) was used, so I pointed out that my bodies allow me to set the 'correctly exposed' image to be first and the minus and plus images to be later. And I have noticed that 95% of the time that first correctly timed and correctly exposed image is the winner. But sometimes, even with 'recovery' and 'fill light', one of the other two images is vastly superior. So, I am just suggesting that you might want to try bracketing .... it won't make light and it won't guarantee timing of the capture but it will give you that slight edge that separates you from the pack.

[PhotosGuy]

Bracketing with film. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24269) Post #27

Help with manual flash + ambient exposure here: See post #3
Tips for Xmas Ball Please (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=419399)

That being said, I've never (yet) used a flash for concert type photography as I'd rather see the interesting colors that the lighting guy comes up with. Some of mine:
A few "posters" of bands from the last year. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=631210)

But if I did use one, I'd try to get a touch under "normal" fill light, & might even put a colored gell on it.

[DwightMcCann]

Sharpen After Resizing: Over and over again people need to be reminded that resizing an image, particularly smaller, usually requires sharpening/re-sharpening, AFTER the resizing. Resizing merges pixels and loses edge contrast which makes the images look soft. When you resize for the web you almost always need to resharpen. BUT be aware that resizing/sharpening should only be once per size. Don't take your original image, resize to one size, sharpen, then take that image and resize, sharpen again, and then again. Always go back to the original size to each new size.
The question has been raised, offline, as to whether resizing, sharpening, resizing, sharpening, resizing, sharpening actually does degrade image quality. That is, if you have a large image and resize it for print, then sharpen it and saving it, and without reloading, simply resize for web usage and resharpen, will the image degrade? I don't know. It depends on how the program being used works. I am not privy to the innards of Photoshop, so I must speculate.

I will speculate that under optimal algorithms by the editing software and care by the user that it may make little to no difference, if every resize is a downsize and the compression (assuming we are talking jpegs) is applied only to a separate saved copy and not the in-memory working version of the image. I think, under ideal conditions, that the information lost in resizing (the merging of pixels) and the information lost in sharpening (the altering of pixels at contrast boundaries) becomes unnoticeable because the smaller size masks the lost of detail and color discreteness.

So, let me back up and say more clearly, that regardless of sharpening, you should not load an already compressed image, resize (and resharpen) and save (again recompressing.) Sharpening really isn't the issue here and I didn't mean to mislead anyone. What you want to avoid is loading and resaving an already compressed image. I would guess that even resaving a compressed image back again at the same size and compression factor will cause degradation. So, I apologize for mixing resizing and sharpening in with my image degradation discussion. And I would urge anyone with a compulsion to go beyond this discussion to wander over to the Post Processing Forum where the pixel peepers are sure to have exact and specific answers as well as much disagreement and frothing! :-)

[René Damkot]

I would guess that even resaving a compressed image back again at the same size and compression factor will cause degradation
You would guess right ;)

Then again, for web images, I don't bother too much: If it looks okay on screen, it's okay.

Then again again, I do find I might need to rethink my workflow, since I get sub optimal results. Thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8408860#post8408860).
Or maybe I just need to lay off on the caffeine intake ;)