In-camera sharpening

[tarves57]

When working in raw mode, does in-camera sharpening work? (on the 10D). Or is it just for jpegs?

A competition I came across recently wants raw, unmanipulated files sent, but I find photos from my 10D ALWAYS need sharpening.

And....... does anyone actually recommend sharpening photos in-camera?

Susan :?:

[ilya]

When working in raw mode, does in-camera sharpening work? (on the 10D). Or is it just for jpegs?

A competition I came across recently wants raw, unmanipulated files sent, but I find photos from my 10D ALWAYS need sharpening.

And....... does anyone actually recommend sharpening photos in-camera?

Susan :?:

Susan:

Yes, some amount of sharpening is always applied in-camera to both raw and jpeg files, even if you set the parameters for sharpening to -2 ...this is a long and involved discussion actually. On the 1D and 1Ds you have the ability to apply zero sharpening to raw files.

Whether or not you sharpen in-camera depends on your workflow. Play around and see what works. I do +1, and do more in post-processing. Some folks try to have as unadulterated raw files as possible with -2 and then do it all in software.

[Jim Larson]

This is an interesting question.

Do they expect you to sent *.crw files? Or Jpegs?

If you shoot raw and sent them JPEG's, you may have technically manipulated the file by compressing it. If you shoot as JPEG, you technically are not using the camera to its full potential.

If you shoot with +1 Saturation and +1 Contrast, are you manipulating the image? Isn't desataturating by setting -2 saturation the same type of manipulation? What if you shoot +1 Saturation and +1 Contrast, but using the Canon raw converter you develop with +2 Saturation and +2 Contrast?

I think you should contact the judging panel and request clarification. I perceive several levels of modification
Format: Large JPEG? TIFF? Small JPEG? The format affects the quality of the image. But I would not expect the judges to care what you do.
Use of camera settings: Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast. . .Do they require you to use one camera setting vs another? ie, +2 sharpness vs -2 sharpness? What about white balance? Do you have to use auto white balance, or must you dial in your own color temperature?
More controversially do they allow post shot changing of the in-camera settings? RAW converters are *designed* for post camera (vs in camera) application of the camera settings. A side benefit is adjusment of "as shot" settings.
Photoshop adjustment of levels. Cropping. Cloning.


IMHO, I would allow you to change camera settings, but not adjust things in the RAW converter. This could easily be enforced by submitting RAW files. I think you need to clarify with the judges.

[Jim Larson]

I may not have been clear enough on an important point in the last post:

For RAW files, Contrast, Sharpness, Saturation, (forgotten parameter), and white balance are not applied by the camera. White balance in particular is *critical* for shot quality.

The camera settings are only really applied to the JPEG, and NOTED in the RAW file. When you process raw images, the parameters are only applied if you apply "As shot" settings. You can change these parameters at will. The only things you can't chance are the lens, ISO, Aperture, shutter speed and flash output.

So the whole question of "unmanipulated" photo takes a bit of a spin, doesn't it? As I said above, ethically I think you are ok as long as you process with "as shot".

Note: The above poster is correct, in that some minimal sharpening is applied to the RAW file above and beyond the -2/+2 sharpening parameters of the camera.

[tarves57]

Hi Jim and Ilya, thanks for the very informative replies. I have re-read the rules which state:

"Entries must be color transparencies, 35mm or larger, or digitally captured images 5 megapixels or higher. Each participant may submit a total of no more than 20 transparencies or digital files. Prints will not be accepted. Send all entries together in protective plastic sheets specially made for transparencies or a CD with scanned images (JPEG format no larger than 4 megabytes.) Digitally captured images may be sent on CD in their raw, non-manipulated form. "

If the minimum digital file size is 5MP, then surely they cannot be JPEGs? This is for the "Nature's Best" magazine competition which you can read about here:

http://www.naturesbestmagazine.com/

Anyway, if I understood your replies correctly, then raws are not subject to "processing parameters", but simply contain the coding for them, to be used when being "developed". In which case it would be extremely important to have all the right settings when taking the photograph to get the best results. (Or at least competition class photos!).

Of interest, I read in one of the EOS magazines today that the 300D has +1 contrast, +1 sharpness and +1 saturation to give a "punchier" picture, as 300D users were considered less likely to play about with these settings. This could be useful for beginners like me! I think I will experiment anyway.

Susan

[PacAce]

When working in raw mode, does in-camera sharpening work? (on the 10D). Or is it just for jpegs?

A competition I came across recently wants raw, unmanipulated files sent, but I find photos from my 10D ALWAYS need sharpening.

And....... does anyone actually recommend sharpening photos in-camera?

Susan :?:

Susan, according to the rules you posted, you don't HAVE to submit your entry as raw, unmanipulated files. It say you MAY submit such a file.

And, from how I understand it, when they say raw, unmainpulated files, I infer it to mean a JPG file coming out of the camera as is. I doubt they mean the RAW (CRW) file that needs to be converted. In any case, based on what I read in the rules, you should be ok with doing out of camera sharpening. However, I do admit that the statement is a little ambiguous, so you may do well to inquire about it (from the organizers)
just to be sure.

Also, when they refer to a 5 megapixel minimum image, they are refering to the resolution, not the actual file size. For example, the 10D and the 300D shoots 3072x2048 resolution images. That's a 6.3 megapixel image. If you own one of these cameras, you would have to shoot in RAW mode or Large JPG mode to be compliant.