Condensation in cold weather

[maderito]

Although I usually live by the motto - "winter is a good time for indoor activities" - I'm tempted to take out the 10D into the cold. I've read often about condensation upon returning to a warmer place.

Where does the condensation occur: on the front-most lens surface; within the lens; on other parts of the camera?

If condensation develops, can re-exposing the camera to freezing temps cause problems or, God forbid, damage?

Any advice on what to do once you have condensation . . . other than just wait.

I've already read the tips on how to avoid the problem ... but just in case :?

[robertwgross]

I just returned from cross country skiing and photography in the Central Sierra Nevada Range of California. Each morning, the air temperature was between 0 and +6 F. That's moderately cold in my book.

Although I have skied with my camera around my neck and dangling within my parka, for this trip I opted to keep the camera inside a padded holster and inside the top of my backpack. I would ski ahead of the group, then stop and set up for somebody to move into the frame.

As long as you keep the camera parts cold, there is no problem keeping them that way. Similarly, if you keep everything warm, but it is more difficult to keep a camera consistently warm. So, I would lug it all around during the course of a day. When I returned to a warm cabin, condensation would be a problem, especially on the front of the lens, since that is where the air temperature hits first. The inside is moderately sealed and air temperature does not fluctuate so badly. If I had to take a shot and the lens still had condensation, then I would clean it off with a soft cloth for a minute or two before shooting.

If all else fails and you capture a good image, but the haziness shows, then just goose up the contrast a bit afterward.

Remember to overexpose for snow.

---Bob Gross---

[timmyquest]

Warmer air can hold more water then cooler air...when warm air is cooled a cloud will form (you can do a nifty little trick with a plastic bottle by twisting it up and releasing the pressure by letting go and allowing it to untwist thus rapidly cooling hte air, a cloud forms inside the bottle).

Condensation is kind of like the oposite, condensation forms when a warm body is put in cold air, thus warming the air right next to that body (in this case your lens). Since the source of the cold air is outside of the lens the only condensation that should from is on the outside of the lens, not the internals.

**This post is based on my knoweldge of air/humidity etc and not my experience with camera equipment

[iwatkins]

As a meteorologist, I just had to comment... :)

Tim, I think you have condensation the wrong way around.

Condensation (in this case) occurs when a cold object is placed in a warm and damp atmosphere. Moisture in the warm damp air cools rapidly around the cool object. So much so in some cases the moisture condenses into droplets on the cold surface itself (cold beer glass on a hot day).

In theory, moisture will be condensing on every surface (external and internally) that comes in contact with the warm moist air.

As the cold object warms up to the temperature of the warm air the condensation will then evaporate.

Your best bet when it comes to cameras is to bring the camera into the warm and just place it somewhere safe so it naturally comes up to the same temperature as the indoors. By this time all condensation will disappear.

I don't think it really matters if a little moisture condenses on the outside surfaces, e.g. body, front lens element.

However, I wouldn't want condensation on the interior of the camera. But if you don't remove the lens from the body while it is coming up to temperature you shouldn't get any internal condensation as the air inside the camera will not be mixing with the external warm damp air.

Going the other way isn't a problem. A warm camera going out into freezing temperatures will actually dry out as cold air will have a much lower amount of moisture than any warm air around the camera.

But I would agree that taking a camera from -15°C into a warm damp room at say +25°C would cause some condensation. I certainly wouldn't then take it straight back outside into -15°C air again as the condensation will probably freeze before it can evaporate as the camera itself will probably only have warmed slightly in the short time it was indoors.

Although not enviromentally sealed, I'm sure the 10D wouldn't suffer too much in most cases. But extremes of temperature and moisture will give any electronics problems, so common sense here really.

Cheers

Ian

[maderito]

I just returned

Bob,

Hadn't heard from you in a few days and was worried you might have wandered off and gotten lost :cry:

Welcome back ... and thanks for the tips :D

[robertwgross]

I don't get lost much in the snowy mountains.

For photography, I carry my Canon D60.
For navigation, I carry my Garmin GPS12XL.
For avalanche danger, I carry a Pieps avalanche beacon and a shovel.
For general purpose communications within a group, I carry GMRS radios for short distance.

Now, where it gets tricky is when my Sigma wildlife lens has to go along. It gets too bloody hard to tow that lens trailer around all the time, especially with icy roads and all. I'm going to have to get something self-propelled. Maybe a tracked vehicle. Maybe a Bradley without the gun on top. Licensing might be a problem, but I wouldn't have to worry about anybody else getting in my way when I want to line up the camera.

---Bob Gross---

[Morden]

For photography, I carry my Canon D60.
For navigation, I carry my Garmin GPS12XL.
For avalanche danger, I carry a Pieps avalanche beacon and a shovel.
For general purpose communications within a group, I carry GMRS radios for short distance.
...For defense - and keeping of the peace - I carry my lightsaber. :D

[iwatkins]

Bob,

Maybe this would help ?

Cheers

Ian

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~statefor/snowcat.jpg

[robertwgross]

I don't know. I think that looks a little top-heavy.

---Bob Gross---

[IanD]

I think I'm going to pass on taking my 10D outside tomorrow. AM temp is going to be around -27C and toss in the expected windchill it should be -37C. I think my USM might just be a little stiff.
It would however be interesting to know the effects on a digital camera at those temps. Has anyone ever shot out in that type of extreme weather?
I know that a long time ago Nat Geo used to "winter proof" their cameras but have not done so in a while.
Seems to me that tomorrow is going to be a fine day for many mugs of coffee and a good book.
Ian

[Jim_T]

I think I'm going to pass on taking my 10D outside tomorrow. AM temp is going to be around -27C and toss in the expected windchill it should be -37C. I think my USM might just be a little stiff.
It would however be interesting to know the effects on a digital camera at those temps. Has anyone ever shot out in that type of extreme weather?

Yes.. I had my 10D outside on a tripod for about 1/2 hr at -33C (-27F)... That was without the windchill.. I was taking time exposures by moonlight..

It got so cold, the camera body actually hurt my bare hands when I held it after taking it off the tripod.. I was using the RS80-N3 remote cable release and the rubber insulation on the wire got so cold it would have snapped if I bent it.

The camera worked OK..

One thing about condensation in these temperatures.. Heating air this cold leaves very little relative humidity in cars and houses (unless you have a humidifier). The air is usually so dry, condensation isn't a problem

When I took my camera back into my heated car, there was no condensation to speak of..
.

[timmyquest]

As a meteorologist, I just had to comment... :)

Tim, I think you have condensation the wrong way around.



Funny thing is that i came back to change my thread after i thought about what i said :lol:

[IanD]

Jim,
Thanks for the info. The camera might work OK at those temps, but I doubt if I would. :)
I'm staying in the house where it is nice and warm. -37C with the wind chill right now............where did I put that book?
Ian

[Anders Östberg]

First, thanks to iwatkins for sorting it out!

This is what I do: going out into the cold is no problem. Coming back in is, so I wrap the camera up tightly in a plastic bag (after removing the CF card) and let it warm up in the bag. The theory is there's at least less moisture inside the bag to condense on the camera. After an hour or so the camera will have warmed up and can be taken out of the bag. This often coincides with when I have finished looking over the shots from the outing, gotten into some indoor clothes, and had a cup of coffee or two to warm up. :)

-Anders