Seconik L-358 Help!!!!

[Galileos]

Hello everybody,
I just bought the Sekonic L-358, i bought it because i read the posts here that is very good choice for mesuring the light, right? but the question i have is could this light meter be used with 2x 580EX flashes?

[Galileos]

nobody knows if this lightmeter works with 2x 580EX?

[gkas]

To get the Sekonic to correctly read the 580, the flashes have to be in manual mode, and they have to be fired with the TEST button on the flash. ETTL or test firing via the camera shutter will not provide a correct result.

[In2Photos]

I don't know much about light meters but it should be able to work with any number of lights/flashes. From what I do know, you should setup your flashes to obtain the ratio you are after, use M mode the flashes, and use the light meter to determine your exposure. Then plug that into your camera in M mode and fire away.

[nanko]

There is a mode on sekonic which will wait up to 90 or 60 seconds (see manual.. there is ambient mode, flash mode, flash cord mode i think) for the flash burst. You set that and then have someone hold it for you. Then you trigger both the flashes at a time or just take a picture with flashes on.

[Lotto]

gkas is right, use the test button to measure the speedlites.

If the camera is used to fire the 580s: in ETTL mode, you will get like f1.2 (preflash), and of course there's not point of using a light meter for automatic flash. In master/slave manual mode, camera triggered flash will give "Eu" on the L358 (command flash).

[Wilt]

Any mode which has a PRE-FLASH from the 580EX will cause any handheld meter to NOT READ PROPERLY because it will be triggered by the first output of light, and so it does not read the second output of light.

[Dante King]

Any mode which has a PRE-FLASH from the 580EX will cause any handheld meter to NOT READ PROPERLY because it will be triggered by the first output of light, and so it does not read the second output of light.

this is incorrect. nanko is correct. I have done this 100000 times.

[Sam]

this is incorrect. nanko is correct. I have done this 100000 times.

That's a lot of times.

[Wilt]

this is incorrect. nanko is correct. I have done this 100000 times.

I have a Minolta flashmeter, and it has Corded and Cordless modes for flashmetering, like the Sekonic. The cordless mode waits for flash to go off and senses the burst of light to trigger itself. I would be quite surprised if you could put your ETTL flash into ETTL mode, and have the preflash not be registered by the meter when it is triggeredby the camera shutter press halfway before the main burst of light.

If the 580EX flash was in Manual mode, there is no preflash. So only the single main burst of light triggers a meter set in cordless mode.

Can someone tell me a Canon flash in ETTL mode will NOT trigger a flashmeter set in Cordless single flash mode?

There is a multi-flash mode, that will accumulate multiple bursts of light. But in that case, accumulation of the preflash plus the added accumulation of the main flash would result in some degree UNDER exposure because when the shutter opens on the main flash is in the exposure but the preflash contributes nothing to the exposure. Only the fact that the preflash is relatively weak would permit the meter to accumulate both the preflash plus main burst while in multi-burst mode without it getting fooled into underexposure. But that would be serendipity, not by-design.

[SkipD]

It makes absolutely no sense to meter a flash such as the 580EX if the camera and flash are controlling the exposure. You couldn't do anything with the reading anyhow. The only time that it makes sense to meter the flash is when the camera and the flash unit are both in fully manual modes. Then you can set the camera's aperture to what the meter reads and you will get a properly exposed image.

[Galileos]

Thank you guys all of you, you really made my day and happy finaly having bought this little toy!!!! :)

SkipD, yes it is for sure that i will use the lightmeter with 580EX and my camera 30D both of them in manual mode (otherwise it makes no sense as you said, you are right)

but can you tell me guys how i am supposed to put the flashes? i mean the position to take the portrait.
thank you, you're really great!!!!

[SkipD]

You will have to trigger the flash unit(s) by "taking a picture" with the camera. There's no way to directly trigger the Speedlite flash units with the meter. This will probably require a helper or a long shutter release cable (a modified one - I have only seen two-foot models being sold commercially) to hold the meter where you want it and trip the shutter at the camera.

You will probably want to use the meter in "incident" mode (with the white half-ball in place). That means holding the meter at the subject's location and, generally, pointing the meter toward the camera when you trigger the lights.

Like has been said above, the "cordless" metering method is what you want to select at the meter. It will give you a timed interval between pressing the button on the meter and manually triggering the flash output.

[Wilt]

It makes absolutely no sense to meter a flash such as the 580EX if the camera and flash are controlling the exposure. You couldn't do anything with the reading anyhow. The only time that it makes sense to meter the flash is when the camera and the flash unit are both in fully manual modes. Then you can set the camera's aperture to what the meter reads and you will get a properly exposed image.


Skip, it would make sense to use an external meter to corroborate what will happen under ETTL control...let the camera meter its light output from the flash while also getting a Cordless reading from the meter...as a means of determining precisely how much FEC to dial in to get ETTL to output flash as main source of light. Way too many people experiencing 'underexposure' with ETTL to have everyone histogram peeping only, an independent measurement would be useful. Unfortunately the preflash gets in the way of trying to do this!

It would also make sense for using ETTL wireless, with some ratio'ing of the two 580EX and also verify the overall exposure

[Galileos]

You will have to trigger the flash unit(s) by "taking a picture" with the camera. There's no way to directly trigger the Speedlite flash units with the meter. This will probably require a helper or a long shutter release cable (a modified one - I have only seen two-foot models being sold commercially) to hold the meter where you want it and trip the shutter at the camera.

You will probably want to use the meter in "incident" mode (with the white half-ball in place). That means holding the meter at the subject's location and, generally, pointing the meter toward the camera when you trigger the lights.

Like has been said above, the "cordless" metering method is what you want to select at the meter. It will give you a timed interval between pressing the button on the meter and manually triggering the flash output.


Sorry because i am novice to this what do you mean by triggering the flash unit(s), what do i have to du? and how can i shot before metering the light? you mean i have to shot like i have done till now? having the lightmeter in front of the subject?
thank you so much

[Wilt]

Galileos, ordinarily with a studio flash, you connect the PC cable from the flash directly to the meter in Corded mode, so when you press the button on the meter it triggers the flash and takes a reading. Since you are trying to trigger a flash mounted on the hotshoe of the camera, you cannot accomplish this 'Corded' mode of measurement.

Instead, you put the meter in Cordless mode. You press the button on the meter to get it ready for the actual flash, then you hurry over to the camera (before too much time has elapsed and the meter quits waiting for the flash!) and press the shutter button, which triggers the flash, which causes the meter to take the reading.

As a couple of us have said, the flash unit needs to be on Manual so as to avoid the preflash confusing the meter, or the meter needs to be in multi-flash mode and you realize it has summed two flashes (pre-flash + main flash) into the reading!

[SkipD]

Skip, it would make sense to use an external meter to corroborate what will happen under ETTL control...let the camera meter its light output from the flash while also getting a Cordless reading from the meter...as a means of determining precisely how much FEC to dial in to get ETTL to output flash as main source of light. Way too many people experiencing 'underexposure' with ETTL to have everyone histogram peeping only, an independent measurement would be useful. Unfortunately the preflash gets in the way of trying to do this!Your last line is what I was going to say about your idea. You just beat me to it.

I don't know of any way that it would be possible to truly measure the output of a flash in ETTL (or its variations) mode unless you had a flash meter that could record successive rapid pulses with amplitude readings for each.

[Lotto]

OK, here's how I use the L358 meter for 2 Speedlites in wireless mode. I use this procedure all the time, and just ran a test to make sure my story is straight.

I put the the flashes into master/slave and MANUAL mode (read page 42 of the 580 EX User Manual on how to do this), in my case, the 580 master on camera as fill, the 430 as slave on a stand, the classsic 45 degrees off to the side position. All straight flash, no diffusion.

Test #1, fire the 580 only with 1/8 power. With the L358 about 5 ft in front of the lens, in Auto-reset cordless flash mode. I press the camera shutter to fire the 580; the L358 read f2.2. Then I push the test button only on the 580, L358 says f5.6. I set the camera to 1/125, f5.6, and that was the correct exposure.

Test #2, add the 430 slave with 1/4 power to the mix. Camera fires master/slave, L358 reads f2.2; push test button on 580 to fire both flashes, L358 gives f11. Again set the camera to f11, and gets the proper exposure.

Basically this method, fire the flashes by pressing the test button to get the meter read, gives me about 2:1 fill ratio, and combine flash output of f11.

Normally with speedlites only, I would use ETTL auto with ratio +/- FEC. But I have added couple optical slaves to my setup, and going manual is the only way to get consistant results.

[Galileos]

Ok guys i tried the manual setting, but when i use two flashes as i said the flash on the camera (i mean one of 580EX) i can put that one in manual mode as my camera is set to manual, but the second 580EX i can't put it to manual because it is as a slave. What should i do to meter those flashes with that Sekonic L-358? How can i do that?
is there anyone telling me in step by step instructions? just in few words,
please i am so confused using my 2 580EX with the lightmeter!!!!!:(
let say that you meter the light for example the shutter and the f/stops OK? what about the power light on the speedlights? Does the meter will say me how much power i have to put on my speedlights? and how far way i should be to shot the photograph?
please let me know if you know something of that i am asking.
Thank you all so very much

[MDJAK]

this is incorrect. nanko is correct. I have done this 100000 times.

Sheesh, no wonder you dumped the 1DsMKII on poor calikocat. I'll bet he's got no idea you had a hundred thousand shutter clicks on that antique. :lol:

mark

[gkas]

Ok guys i tried the manual setting, but when i use two flashes as i said the flash on the camera (i mean one of 580EX) i can put that one in manual mode as my camera is set to manual, but the second 580EX i can't put it to manual because it is as a slave. What should i do to meter those flashes with that Sekonic L-358? How can i do that?


The slave can be put into manual mode. Just hold down the MODE button until it changes to manual. It takes a couple of seconds.

[Lotto]

"Ok guys i tried the manual setting, but when i use two flashes as i said the flash on the camera (i mean one of 580EX) i can put that one in manual mode as my camera is set to manual, but the second 580EX i can't put it to manual because it is as a slave. "

---Leav the second 580 in ETTL slave mode, now on the master unit (on camera), turn on the ratio, then press the "Mode" button, you will notice the Ratio area change from "A:B" to "A:B", also you will see the normal ratio bar at the button of the master 580 LCD disappears, and a new number like "M 1/8 or 1/2+0.3" shows up in the middle of the screen.

The underline A is the manual output of master flash.

---press the "SET" button (middle of the wheel), the A and 1/8 will be blinking, turn the wheel will adjust the manual output of the master 580, in 1/3 stop.

---press SET again, the ratio area will shows A:B, with the B is blinking, and that indicates the manual ouput of the SLAVE 580. Turn the wheel again will adjust B group slave output.

The picture below shows what the master 580 LCD looks like when in manual mode. From there, just press the SET button to change between the blinking A and B, and turn the wheel to set the power to your needs.

[Galileos]

Lotto thank you soooooooo much i really tried that and find out what happens, really appreciate your advice.
thank you so much