how much to charge?

[bdj3]

A woman whom I just did a shoot for asked me if I would do her "family" shoot over the winter break. It's 27 people, 7 of which are children and the two grandparents...the rest are moms&dads of the seven kids. It's a 40 minute drive. They would get individual family shots and group shots and the edited cd of the pictures. Should I charge per family or as a group? thanks.

[SuzyView]

I'd charge for time per hour of shooting. Just to get me out, I could charge $50. It's really the right thing to do since you have to travel. I have a minimum charge. For friends $20, for new customers, more (can't say I charge the same everytime).

[PIXI_666]

I would do it this way...

Location fee $50, then $20 per sitting (eg. Seperate families, kids. grandies...etc etc) So all in all you might do 15 different setups which gives you $300 from that plus the $50 location fee. Then give them an hourly rate of $50 and anything over charge accordingly.

CD of prints i would ask for $200 and any copies $30 and charge accordingly for reprints.

So that's a total of...

$550 but if you break it down and tell them exactly what they are paying for - they aren't going to complain are they!?

Del :)

[LBaldwin]

Ok,

There are several ways to bill this BUT and I cannot stress this enuf, make sure that you deal with one and only one person within the group.

The best way today is to charge a creative fee (baseline charge) flat for the photography and post processing portions of the shoot, that is your primary source of income. As an additional line items on the invoice charge for travel, assistants and any extra equipment that a shoot of this size will require. Do not attempt to do this shoot without an assistant.

Now, no edited CD. The prints will be available on smugmug or other pay site for them to purchase from. A group of 27 is damn hard to complete correctly. A break down may look like this.

Females only with Senior lady center.
Males only with Senior male center
Sisters only
Brothers Only.
Sisters with Dad
Brothers with Mom
Brothers with Dad
Sisters with Mom
Kids With Mom
Kids With Dad
Family shots Then break down as above
Overall Group Shots (several to make sure that eyes are open and toward camera)

Each shot should have at least 4 exposures to ensure that you got it. A shot with closed eyes is going to require lots of PP and loss of profit.

You can see why now you don't want to give a CD. The 5x sales should be pretty darn good. Each family will want at least an 8x wall portrait too. Wallets and 4x for fridge magnets too. If you give away the CD then you give away money. A shoot like this could net around 3K when all is said and done if you do it right.

NOTES: Do not use an hourly figure, becuase you will never get enough to cover all the PP you will have to do, AND they will think you are gouging them. S0 present it like this. $750.00 to cover the creative fee. $100.00 to hire an experienced assistant. And of course any rental equipment or extra stuff. As far as travel is concerned 40 Miles is really only `2-3 gals of gas so to me that is a non issue. BUT use that as a bargaining chip if you need to. Tell them at first you may need to charge for it, but throw it in when and if she starts to balk at your pricing.

Do all of your PP up load the images collect your cash, send me my 10% :-P


Les

[dajomel]

As far as travel is concerned 40 Miles is really only `2-3 gals of gas so to me that is a non issue.

No advice I'm afraid, was reading out of curiousity but loved the above comment!!! I just love you Americans and your fuel efficient cars!!!:lol: 40 miles should be about 1Gal, 1.5 TOPS!!! 2-3 gals is not good, though you pay pennies for your 'gas' not like us Brits. :D As an additional note, he stated 40 min drive, not miles. :D Don't you love my attention to detail? :lol:

Good luck with the shoot though bdj!!! Hope it goes well and pockets you some good money and experience. :D

[LBaldwin]

No advice I'm afraid, was reading out of curiousity but loved the above comment!!! I just love you Americans and your fuel efficient cars!!!:lol: 40 miles should be about 1Gal, 1.5 TOPS!!! 2-3 gals is not good, though you pay pennies for your 'gas' not like us Brits. :D As an additional note, he stated 40 min drive, not miles. :D Don't you love my attention to detail? :lol:

Good luck with the shoot though bdj!!! Hope it goes well and pockets you some good money and experience. :D

Yup, you Brits do have more effecient cars, smaller more uncomfortable too. But here in the US the land of SUV's and still cheaper gas, the gas amount I quoted is about right. I drive a Toyota to go and get parts for my Triumph TR-7. Still want an Aston Martin though.

If it involves a freeway for more than 80% of the trip than 40 is roughly 40 miles too DOH.

Cheers

[Hellashot]

No advice I'm afraid, was reading out of curiousity but loved the above comment!!! I just love you Americans and your fuel efficient cars!!!:lol: 40 miles should be about 1Gal, 1.5 TOPS!!! 2-3 gals is not good, though you pay pennies for your 'gas' not like us Brits. :D As an additional note, he stated 40 min drive, not miles. :D Don't you love my attention to detail? :lol:

Good luck with the shoot though bdj!!! Hope it goes well and pockets you some good money and experience. :D

Most people where I live in the US, state how far you are from somewhere initially by driving time. You have to ask miles if you want miles.

I would think that the 27 person family would freak out if they had to pay $550 for pictures. They would probably be happy with someone using a tripod and a P&S digital camera.

[LBaldwin]

I would think that the 27 person family would freak out if they had to pay $550 for pictures. They would probably be happy with someone using a tripod and a P&S digital camera.[/quote]

In away i agree. Thats where salesmanship comes in. If you compare yourself to the local *mart, then that is the price structure you will stay in.

You need to make known how GOOD yor images are, how thoughtful, personalized and "professional" your image creation skills are.

If you can't do that in the initial meeting then you are going to be lumped in with all of the "button pushers" that work in the mall, and at *mart. Before anyone getson their high horse I used to be that guy. Great training ground.

This is a trade that is learned, not neatly boxed inside a shiney new camera.

If you can't get a customer average for a large group over $550 (roughly $20 per head) then perhaps you are in the wrong market or in over your head.

Anyone who has shot school groups, or large weddings will probably agree.
When you also consider the number of images that will need PP, the hours involved and storage space, resizeing etc you are talking about at least 4 or five hours of drive time. A 3-5 hour shoot, and at least 30 hours of computer time. If you do all this work and get what amounts to minimum wage why bother.

You need to consider all of the possibilities that can occur with a shoot of this magnitude. My MINIMUM to start would be $1000-1200. If they don't like my images (remember sell your skills?) that much let them hire a button pusher and see what they get. As tough as it is to get families togeather today, can they afford to be cheap?

My target market is always greater than I can afford.

Les

[Kristy]

YIKES! 27 people... will you be there all day long? Sounds like a mini-wedding if you ask me... come up with a 4-hour fee and throw in a credit towards their print order to ensure they will order after you spend hours editing.

[SuzyView]

We had over 75 people at our reunion in UT this summer. I used my 24-70L to do all the shots because I couldn't think of anything else to use. Anyway, it was easy, just put everyone as tight as possible and as low and high as feasible. Did the large group first, took around 20 shots, then took each family aside to do single families. Then Grandma with her children. It was great fun. Took about 30 minutes because there were 2 semi-pros there and we moved everyone around quickly. Otherwise, it would have been a disaster. Didn't charge anyone, though. My husband's family.

[SuzyView]

You think you have problems. Look at the size of my family! :o

118502

I'm not in it. I'm taking the picture. It took 20 shots just go get this one.

The organizer of this little gathering asked each family to wear a specific color. It worked out very well. But I think I like the B&W version better.

118503

[LBaldwin]

My best friend does Jr High and high school dances and proms for many of the schools here in San Jose. I have shot for him dozens of times and one of the best things he ever did was make a set of nesting risers to use on the group shots. We have had some group shots go 30 ft wide and twenty tall. Groups of kids from 2-3 to 75+. We always use a step ladder to get up off the ground so that we can keep the DOF as sharp as possible from front to back. He usually does the large groups while myself and three other photograpghers do the couples and small groups. The photogs he hires usually get anywhere from 100 for a 3 hour Jr Hi Dance to 300 for a Prom. he also pays extra for setup and tear down. During a typical Prom we will each shoot at least 10 rolls of 220 on Hassy. We use fairly common standard poses, and sometimes let the kids design their own as long as they are tasteful. There was a big hoopla a few years back when Charlies Angels came out, lots of girls wanted to do the back to back pose with the fingers as guns. The school admin went balistic.

If you can get two sturdy picnic tables to use as risers it will help loads, just cover them with black cloth. Don't use standard folding chairs outside they sink. My guess many of you just starting out are not insured. I would strongly suggest that you get insureance. One little kid falling off a posing table will get you into some serious financial trouble.

If you do ANY photography for pay, the court sees you as a business and the liability is on you. If anyone has any questions and I can help just hollar, I 'd be happy too.

Les Baldwin

[DocFrankenstein]

I would think that the 27 person family would freak out if they had to pay $550 for pictures. They would probably be happy with someone using a tripod and a P&S digital camera.
They can freak out all you want, but in reality the whole thing is gonna take you the better part of the day.

You have equipment costs, gas, car, your time, PP and then mailing the CDs.

If you count the opportunity cost for working in an office somewhere for 15 bucks an hour... how much would you charge?

[johnlo]

$550 is a bargain. 40 minutes drive.. then you have to deal with not one person, but 27 people. then you have kids and adults.. you are going to have a field day on this one. good luck!!!