DNG Converter/Photoshop CS question

[TMR Design]

First off, I use Photoshop CS but do not have CS2.
I am trying to establish a work flow that makes sense and give me flexibility.
One aspect I am trying is to convert all the RAW files to DNG and then open them in Photoshop CS using the ACR plugin.

1. Once files are converted to DNG is there a reason to hold on to the RAW files?
2. Unless I am missing something it would seem that once you make adjustments to the DNG file and click OK the file is open in Photoshop and can be manipulated as any other PS image can. But (and here is the question)...Is there a way to go back to the ACR window to do further or better adjustment? It appears the only way to get back there is to close the file without saving changes and reopen it. Is this correct?

[Mcary]

Robert,

All RAW processor including ACR don't actually make any changes to the RAW file, including DNG which is a type of RAW file all the do is assign a set of instructions to the file. When you export the file to Photoshop for further editing its actually a PSD or Tiff file. So any changes or edits are being applied to that not the RAW/DNG file so even if you save and close this file you can go back and the DNG file will exactly as you left it.

BTW Camera Raw win Adobe CS by Bruce Frasher is an excellent box on subject.

Mike

[tim]

1. No (delete the CR2). The RAW data is copied from the CR2 to the DNG, with meta data added to the DNG to tell it how to decode it.
2. What Mike said. You can't modify a RAW/DNG, you save as PSD/TIFF.

[TMR Design]

Ok. Maybe I am not explaining this correctly but no one is actually answering this one aspect.

If I make changes to the DNG file and click OK it then opens the file as it would any document in PS and I understand that I can save it off as anything I want from that point. The issue is that whe the DNG is originally opended it opens Camera RAW and lets me make adjustments to exposure, WB, sharpening, etc.. BUT once I click the OK button and it leaves Camera RAW and the file is opened in PS there is no going back to the original, even using Revert. unless you close the file without saving and then reopening it. By doing this you are back to square one. I was hoping that there was a way to go back into ACR to make additional adjustments without starting over.
Is this only because I am using CS? Does it allow for this is I had CS2 or another editor?

[tim]

Maybe my answer wasn't quite complete enough. You CAN NOT change the RAW data, all you can change it the metadata. The metadata is things like exposure +1, white ballance 3200K, etc. Revert the metadata back to defaults and it'll be like it was never edited. I believe DNG metadata is saved in the file, whereas CS2 saves metadata in xmp files.

You should read this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321334094/qid=1123058474/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3047575-5896047?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) if you want to understand RAW, i'd probably suggest the CS2 version even if you use CS1.

[Mcary]

Ok. Maybe I am not explaining this correctly but no one is actually answering this one aspect.

If I make changes to the DNG file and click OK it then opens the file as it would any document in PS and I understand that I can save it off as anything I want from that point. The issue is that whe the DNG is originally opended it opens Camera RAW and lets me make adjustments to exposure, WB, sharpening, etc.. BUT once I click the OK button and it leaves Camera RAW and the file is opened in PS there is no going back to the original, even using Revert. unless you close the file without saving and then reopening it. By doing this you are back to square one. I was hoping that there was a way to go back into ACR to make additional adjustments without starting over.
Is this only because I am using CS? Does it allow for this is I had CS2 or another editor?

Robert,

Yes in CS-2 there is a way to go back to ACR and make further adjustments by Using what's called smart objects. Basicially you start in CS-2 by creating and new document then go to ACR make your adjustments and then place choose "Place in to PhotoShop" This will place your ACR into the new document that you create previously. You can then add Level. Curves and other types of layers to the document and make adjustment to them. At any point that you want to make future adjustment to the Smartobject/ACR/RAW layer just click on it in the layers pallet and ACR will start. When you're finished making the changes and the Smartobject layer will be updated with the changes you've made.

Also if you have an image that say one areas needs to be lighter or darker but you already like how the rest of the document looks you can create muliple RAW/ACR Smart Layers each of which can be adjusted independent of the others VIA Layer-Smart Objects-New Smart Object via Copy. You can then use the different blending modes and or layer mask as needed to blend the layers to get the desired results.

As long as you don't flatten the file before saving it as a PSD you can re-open it and update the ACR setting of each of the RAW/Smart Object Layers.

Google search for RAW and SmartObjects, ACR and Smart Objects should produce so tutoriels that explain the process much better then I can.

Mike

PS I actually forgot about Smart Objects when I wrote my early post. Its like Adobe put this great powerful feature into CS-2 and only lets a few people know about it!

[TMR Design]

Mike,

Thanks for explaining. I understand now that what I want to do can be done in CS2 and not in CS. So the next question is....if I am not going to purchase CS2 what is the alternative? Is there one? or do I just return to the original RAW file if I need to? Should I use something like DPP which will hold on to settings as well as let me return to the original 'Shot' setting?

I am just trying to streamline the process using as few programs as possible but also maintaining the features I like from particular programs.

Is there one program that lets you do everything? Even photoshop's browser is not great otherwise I would view, categorize, etc from there.
I tried BreezeBrowser Pro and I am not all that crazy about it. I like Downloader Pro as a means of transferring, placing and renaming files but I still need a program that I can view and edit, process RAW and ultimately transfer to Photoshop for final cropping and resize and save as JPG.

I want to eliminate having RAW, TIFF and JPG's. It seems so redundant and a complete storage hog.

I keep looking at the work flow from other people and there are so many options but none seem to be working for me.
I tried using DPP for all of this and I could get used to some thing but then I noticed that after I have JPG's or if I shoot JPG and view in DPP, for whatever reason those images are blurred in thumbnail and are only clear once I open the image in the editor. So that seems to be silly to have to open just to know what it looks like and to see it clearly.

Another day of research and playing with applications to sort this out. UGH!

[rhys]

I would love a universal file format. DNG sounds good but it's still a bit proprietry and only supported by Adobe at the moment.

[TMR Design]

I would love a universal file format. DNG sounds good but it's still a bit proprietry and only supported by Adobe at the moment.

Wouldn't that be great?
So rhys....what programs are you using to accomplish this process of RAW to final image?

[Mcary]

Robert,

Personnel I have no reason to keep jpeg files around if I'm going to post something to the web or sent it out for printing I just select the Tiff file9s) and run the appropriate action or script to create the JPEG(s) and once it been posted or uploaded to the printer I just delete the JPEG file(s). I don't need to have mulple different copies for each print size and or crop as I just asign them to the master Tiff file as additional channels, IE 9x12, 8x10, 4x6, 11x14 and when I want a JPEG to sendout for printing I just select the images and run the appropriate action.

Also I've found that in fact I don't go back and re-edit that many images and when I do I usaully start from scatch with the RAW/DNG file in Lightroom so these days I mostly convert my files to 8bit Tiff after editing to save room. Since I do temporily keep some images as 16bit muliple layer tiffs I've create a simple action that flatten them and saves them as 8bit TIffs when it time to move them from my HDS to DVDS for long term storage.

I think the key is to just take a few steps here from one person's work flow and a few from some other people work flows make a few tweaks here and there until after a while you have the work flow that works best for you.


Mike

[rhys]

Wouldn't that be great?
So rhys....what programs are you using to accomplish this process of RAW to final image?

At the moment DPP. My PhotoShop is PSE2 which doesn't do RAW or DNG.