Tips for first wedding shoot [Archive] - Canon Digital Photography Forums

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blackshadow

30th of October 2006 (Mon), 21:51

coreypolis

30th of October 2006 (Mon), 21:57

if you aren't the pro, stay out of his way. look to get things that he misses or from different angles. Don't be in the shot, whether in the background or foreground.

Don't distract teh couple from him, that the most annoying thing there is.

Be a PJ, silent and watchful.

coreypolis

30th of October 2006 (Mon), 21:58

some tips in this PDF
http://polisphotography.com/Documents/Imagesforweb/WEDDING.pdf

DaveG

30th of October 2006 (Mon), 23:41

I'm an experienced photographer - my bread and butter is live music and band promo shots with plenty of events as well.

On Saturday I have been asked to shoot my cousin's wedding; first time covering a wedding. There is an "official" photographer covering the service and taking some other shots but I will be covering the reception as well as the service and be there while set shots are being done.

I haven't seen either the church or the reception venue and won't get the chance until I arrive there on Saturday.

Any tips old hands at this wedding game might have would be appreciated. I'm more of a natural light shooter than a flash user, so any flash tips are especially welcome (ISO, mode and flash settings - tips on using the card/diffuser that are part of the 580EX).

The kit I will be using is:

1D Mark IIN
24-70 f2.8L (I imagine this will be the main lens I will use)
70-200 f2.8L
50mm f1.4
Sigma 30mm f1.4
EOS 630 35mm body (backup)

TIA
Panasonic Lumix FZ5 (point and shoot backup)

It's hard enough to shoot a wedding without there being ANY doubt about who is actually shooting it. I mean do I wait while you take your shots? If I want to use THAT spot do I have to ask for your permission. What if you are set up there already? Will the bride be happy if a shot is missed? Will she accept the excuse from me "Oh I thought he got that." Or "Sorry he was in the way."? Well I doubt it. In any case I would never book a wedding under those conditions. If the bride said, "Yeah we'll pay you but our cousin is going to shoot it too.", then I'd just ask her to tell me how it turned out.

If the pro has a contract with the bride then there's a 100% chance that somewhere in there is a line that says something like, "... the pro ... shall be ... the exclusive photographer..." so he'd have the right to gather up his toys and go home. Many photographers have already received their total fee before they show up on the wedding day and if that's the case here then the bride and you might be setting this up to give him the day off! And with pay!

My experience is that brides and grooms have a much better transmit than receive so I doubt that she realizes that she's in fundamental breach of contract by having you there. "I didn't know that I was supposed to READ the contract!" So don't be surprised if you get to shoot the whole wedding.

If I was you I'd call your cousin right now and find out if the pro knows what she has planned. If the pro doesn't know, tell her that you won't shoot it until the he/she says that it's OK with them.

tim

30th of October 2006 (Mon), 23:46

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75678

Rachellebee27

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 00:05

Just call the official and ask if you can shoot second, chances are he'd be glad to let you.

blackshadow

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 07:45

I was planning on getting in touch with the official 'tog once I got up there - I certainly don't want to step on their toes and would much rather work in concert with someone than be a hindrance.

blackshadow

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 07:51

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75678

Thanks Tim - from your list there are quite a few similarities with the normal shooting I do; of course there are some differences.

Banbert

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 08:30

It's hard enough to shoot a wedding without there being ANY doubt about who is actually shooting it. I mean do I wait while you take your shots? If I want to use THAT spot do I have to ask for your permission. What if you are set up there already? Will the bride be happy if a shot is missed? Will she accept the excuse from me "Oh I thought he got that." Or "Sorry he was in the way."? Well I doubt it. In any case I would never book a wedding under those conditions. If the bride said, "Yeah we'll pay you but our cousin is going to shoot it too.", then I'd just ask her to tell me how it turned out.

If the pro has a contract with the bride then there's a 100% chance that somewhere in there is a line that says something like, "... the pro ... shall be ... the exclusive photographer..." so he'd have the right to gather up his toys and go home. Many photographers have already received their total fee before they show up on the wedding day and if that's the case here then the bride and you might be setting this up to give him the day off! And with pay!

I dont think its realistic to expect guests not to take photographs at a wedding and any photographer that walked off a wedding job because someone else was taking photographs deserves to be strung up by his danglies, if they are that insecure they should go seek employment elsewhere imo. Obviously is different if they are getting in the way of the offical photographer but surely controlling guests with cameras is just one of the challenges and arts of a pro photographer ?

Ive been to 2 very memorable weddings as a guest this year and counted at least 4 or 5 other guests with SLR's, none of which got in the way of the photgrapher or hindered him in any way and he just got on with the job at hand.

DaveG

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 16:53

I dont think its realistic to expect guests not to take photographs at a wedding and any photographer that walked off a wedding job because someone else was taking photographs deserves to be strung up by his danglies, if they are that insecure they should go seek employment elsewhere imo. Obviously is different if they are getting in the way of the offical photographer but surely controlling guests with cameras is just one of the challenges and arts of a pro photographer ?

Ive been to 2 very memorable weddings as a guest this year and counted at least 4 or 5 other guests with SLR's, none of which got in the way of the photgrapher or hindered him in any way and he just got on with the job at hand.

If you read the original post you will discover that he is not shooting this like a guest but in fact will have specific professional tasks. This is a second pro shooter and the difference is huge. This isn't letting the guests click away, it's sharing the shoot with someone else.

When I shoot a wedding I tell the bride and groom that their guests are welcome to take photos except for three different phases of the wedding. The first is the bridal portrait where I ask that I be alone with the bride. She's nervous and when everyone clears out it gets much quieter and I don't have Aunt Gertude chirping at her.The second is at the groups where, with the bride and grooms permission, I ask that the guests NOT take pictures of the groups until I get my three frames off. I leave the group set up and then they can fill their boots. The final situation is when I'm doing the portraits of the B&G in the park. I've asked the B&G to invite their guests to go to the reception which leaves us in the park alone. Getting rid of the groomsmen is vital since they'll just tease the groom and he'll want to rush through the most important photographs of the day. Having said that getting rid of everyone usually means that - without spending an extra penny - the park shots are 100% better.

Now my B&G's get everything that I proof as a full size file on CD's. There is NO economic advantage that comes to me with the guest restrictions above. So why do I do it? It's because I'm completely convinced that I will provide better images to the B&G.

So that's what I say about guests taking photos, but I just wouldn't stand for another pro shooting at the same time I am, as my photographs are NOT going to be as good. I also have not signed up to shoot their wedding under this or any kind of handicap. I do NOT want to wait while he does anything. I don't want his tripod in the way, I don't want him instructing anyone on what to do, and I don't want him there for the bride's portrait or the B&G in the park shots. He would be intrusive as any other guest and that's a problem.

When I do wedding presentations I explain to the bride and groom that it's extremely important that we have a contract. Not the money/piece of paper contract but a REAL contract which is a meeting of minds. I promise them that I will provide goods and services of the quality that they see in my portfolio. They promise me back that if I do so then they will like their wedding. I have not made those promises based on sharing the shoot of the wedding, and it wouldn't occur to me to do so. I would not accept their wedding if they told me that (say) I had only 30 minutes to do all of the groups and the park portraits. I don't accept weddings where the B&G say "We like you. We like your price. But don't do this and this and this. [Which they see in my portfolio.] But do that and that and that." [Which they have NOT seen in my portfolio]. They have changed the contract and I won't accept the responsibility.

Now if I didn't care about the resulting images, or the bride and groom, then I'd have no restrictions on anyone and the pix would turn out the way that they turn out.

sierra_nova

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 20:00

There is an "official" photographer covering the service and taking some other shots but I will be covering the reception as well as the service and be there while set shots are being done.

I think it's great that you are there to cover things like the reception, when the official tog wont be there. For those moments when you become the official, go for your life and have a ball! I don't see any issue with you shooting the parts where the official tog will be there, so long as you stay out of their way and aim for mostly candids. They have a job to do, so respect that. Please don't stand over their shoulder, or behind them - i've tripped over guests shooting behind me and it isn't fun. Respect any clause in the professionals contract - and if the pro asks you to not take a shot, or to stop shooting, listen to them. On saying this, I am sure that the B&G don't want you to replicate the pro's shots, but to get them from your view and the way you see the day.

Now - you didn't ask to be lectured... so..

I'm an experienced photographer - my bread and butter is live music and band promo shots with plenty of events as well.
Any tips old hands at this wedding game might have would be appreciated. I'm more of a natural light shooter than a flash user, so any flash tips are especially welcome (ISO, mode and flash settings - tips on using the card/diffuser that are part of the 580EX).

If you have shot live music and events, you shuld have no issues what so ever with your lighting. You prefer natural light? So do I. Even at receptions indoors my use of flash is minimal. You know what you can do with minimal light - use it to your advantage. The B&G have probably asked you knowing what you do with bands - so are probably after a less tradtional outlook for their day anyway.

Try not to second guess yourself. You are, at the end of the day, a guest who has been asked to take some shots. If the B&G want absolute perfection they should pay someone to work the whole day.

Don't forget to have fun - wedding photography is a blast!

(hope this rant was of some help)
Naomi

blackshadow

31st of October 2006 (Tue), 20:01

Thanks for the tips (feel free to add more).

I just had a long conversation with the main photographer and it sounds like we will work very well together - the church is very small which makes having a photographer move around very difficult so having 2 will make for different angles.

The only part he doesn't like other cameras about is when he takes the bride and groom away for the private shots as he finds more than one camera (or even an assistant) distracts the couple too much.

sirsloop

7th of November 2006 (Tue), 10:51

GertS

7th of November 2006 (Tue), 11:30

lol... id be pissed if I was hired to be the photographer for an event and there was some friend of the family there with a 1D. You're gonna end up butting heads with the pro there, without a doubt. First time you two are shooting the same subject, and their attention goes to you - instant ticked off pro. Its hard enough to get the shots without having to battle with "some dude" thats there.

I was at the wedding of friends in New Zealand. The hired pro, he is really dammed good and you have to book him minimum 15 months ahead, shot the wedding with a 20D, while I used my 1D Mark II with the 24-70L / 28-300LIS.
Competition? No, we both were relaxed. I didn't disturb him with flash or in the way as I shot from a distance. The couple got from both sides great shots as we supplemented us.

Banbert

7th of November 2006 (Tue), 11:50

If you read the original post you will discover that he is not shooting this like a guest but in fact will have specific professional tasks. This is a second pro shooter and the difference is huge. This isn't letting the guests click away, it's sharing the shoot with someone else.

When I shoot a wedding I tell the bride and groom that their guests are welcome to take photos except for three different phases of the wedding. The first is the bridal portrait where I ask that I be alone with the bride. She's nervous and when everyone clears out it gets much quieter and I don't have Aunt Gertude chirping at her.The second is at the groups where, with the bride and grooms permission, I ask that the guests NOT take pictures of the groups until I get my three frames off. I leave the group set up and then they can fill their boots. The final situation is when I'm doing the portraits of the B&G in the park. I've asked the B&G to invite their guests to go to the reception which leaves us in the park alone. Getting rid of the groomsmen is vital since they'll just tease the groom and he'll want to rush through the most important photographs of the day. Having said that getting rid of everyone usually means that - without spending an extra penny - the park shots are 100% better.

Now my B&G's get everything that I proof as a full size file on CD's. There is NO economic advantage that comes to me with the guest restrictions above. So why do I do it? It's because I'm completely convinced that I will provide better images to the B&G.

So that's what I say about guests taking photos, but I just wouldn't stand for another pro shooting at the same time I am, as my photographs are NOT going to be as good. I also have not signed up to shoot their wedding under this or any kind of handicap. I do NOT want to wait while he does anything. I don't want his tripod in the way, I don't want him instructing anyone on what to do, and I don't want him there for the bride's portrait or the B&G in the park shots. He would be intrusive as any other guest and that's a problem.

When I do wedding presentations I explain to the bride and groom that it's extremely important that we have a contract. Not the money/piece of paper contract but a REAL contract which is a meeting of minds. I promise them that I will provide goods and services of the quality that they see in my portfolio. They promise me back that if I do so then they will like their wedding. I have not made those promises based on sharing the shoot of the wedding, and it wouldn't occur to me to do so. I would not accept their wedding if they told me that (say) I had only 30 minutes to do all of the groups and the park portraits. I don't accept weddings where the B&G say "We like you. We like your price. But don't do this and this and this. [Which they see in my portfolio.] But do that and that and that." [Which they have NOT seen in my portfolio]. They have changed the contract and I won't accept the responsibility.

Now if I didn't care about the resulting images, or the bride and groom, then I'd have no restrictions on anyone and the pix would turn out the way that they turn out.

That reads a lot better than what you originally wrote and I dont really disgaree with any of that, thanks for the tips.

blackshadow

8th of November 2006 (Wed), 10:48

The wedding was great - I had the chance to speak to the photographer before hand and things worked out very well together. I didn't impede him at all and at a couple of points as we were walking past each other he whispered a couple of tips to me.

The only part of the day I didn't shoot were the wedding party shots between the Church and Reception - they were done on the Bride's family farm and I shot the reception as the other photographer was there.

I got some great photos - will post some in the next few days. I also learned a lot and know a few more things to look out for in the future.

Thanks to all who shared their knowledge.

sierra_nova

8th of November 2006 (Wed), 19:47

Hey Richard

I'm glad to hear it went so well! Can't wait to see some of your shots!

Naomi

blackshadow

9th of November 2006 (Thu), 06:44

OK - here are a few of my shots from the wedding - more can be seen at http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/
C&C encouraged.
Part 1 - beforehand - The Boys

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre27.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre26.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre18.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre16.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre14.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre10.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/pre34.jpg

blackshadow

9th of November 2006 (Thu), 06:55

Part 1 of 2 - The Church

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu77.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu78.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu71.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu67.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu59.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu51.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu50.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu49.jpg

blackshadow

9th of November 2006 (Thu), 06:55

Part 2/2 - The Church

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu45.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu30.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu90.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu21.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu18.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu13.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/chu08.jpg

blackshadow

9th of November 2006 (Thu), 07:34

Part 3 - The Reception

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec105.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec103.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec85.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec82.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec72.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec48.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec44.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/spindoctor66/Chris%20and%20Kylie/rec117.jpg

blackshadow

11th of November 2006 (Sat), 19:29

Any feedback?

kampphoto

11th of November 2006 (Sat), 19:50

Good work for a first try. There are some white balance issues in a few of the shots, a little to blue, or a little to orange (mind you i'm viewing on a crappy CRT so that might be the problem)

Some of the shots would be great if there was a little fill flash used. Not to much but enough to light the faces and give them some "pop"

Speaking of "pop" a lot of the shots are missing it. A lot of this comes down to the lack fill flash, it's leaving the colors very muted. If the day was sunny then there would be that color, but you'll find on cloudy days that you definatly need the fill to bring out color. If you shot RAW you could definatly bring out more in these shots.

All in all nice work for your first go at a wedding. Nice sharp in focus shots, composition is generally pretty good. Keep it upm you're on the right track =)

blackshadow

13th of November 2006 (Mon), 17:25

Thanks for the comments.

I might try a little more PP to get a bit more "pop" on this lot but I agree about the fill flash on some of them.