Hot,hot from Japan

[Waldemar]

REPORT FROM JAPAN
continued


CANON GOES 24x36 SENSOR FOR PRO SLRS, APS FOR AMATEUR:
Canon identified better saturation, greater ISO range, easier use of wide-angle lenses, and less noise as some of the reasons for preferring 24x36mm CMOS sensors for pro cameras. Canon predicted the cost of such sensors might drop slightly, but would remain sufficiently high to put them out of amateur range, where APS-size sensors would continue to rule. Aside from some special wide-angle lenses, Canon doesn’t expect to field an entire range of APS-dedicated lenses. Instead, Canon thinks digital camera owners will continue to use the standard array of Canon lenses, present and future.
From Popular Photography & Imaging.

[defordphoto]

Interesting, but we need some linkage please.

[Tom W]

Interesting, but we need some linkage please.

Very interesting. So, are they going to go "full" and 1.6, or is there going to be a 1.3 or so in the middle? I really would like to have full, but that's not conceivable at its price point.

Oh yeah, here's a link: http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?article_id=766&section_id=5&page_numbe r=4

Not much more information there...

[defordphoto]

No, not much information, but it confirms it. I believe nothing I read on the Internet without confirmation.

So, does this mean we will see a full-frame sensor on the new 1D? Hmmmmmmmmm....

[CyberDyneSystems]

I thought we all knew this,. I know I read this a few weeks back,. thought it was posted here,. then again,. I subscribe to Pop photo,. (in which case I may have been remiss in not posting it here.. :( )

Anyway,. makes sense,. and if it's true,. as you say,.. the new 1D is full frame !

(and I bet that means more $$$ too )

[Tom W]

No, not much information, but it confirms it. I believe nothing I read on the Internet without confirmation.

So, does this mean we will see a full-frame sensor on the new 1D? Hmmmmmmmmm....

Now you've got me wondering. How about a full-sized sensor on the 1D, and a new 1Ds with even more capability. Digital photography is still in the racing stage, as the various contenders strive towards dominance. Markets at their best. We, the consumer, keep getting better stuff offered to us.

So what does this mean for the 10D?

[defordphoto]

I think the 10D will remain the upper-end pro-sumer camera and the Drebel serving the "standard" consumer of dSLRs. There is room for all these cameras. I see them really kicking the 10D replacement (fall 2004?) up in features and staying with the 'APS' sized sensor. This is the perfect combination. You can have your FF 1Dx and then use the 10Dx as a 1.6 backup.

Perfect!

[Tom W]

I think the 10D will remain the upper-end pro-sumer camera and the Drebel serving the "standard" consumer of dSLRs. There is room for all these cameras. I see them really kicking the 10D replacement (fall 2004?) up in features and staying with the 'APS' sized sensor. This is the perfect combination. You can have your FF 1Dx and then use the 10Dx as a 1.6 backup.

Perfect!

The only issues I 'might' have with the "aps" sized sensor would be the longer depth-of-field and the greater difficulty in getting wide angle lenses. I suspect that the wide angle problem will be cured (and already is for many with the 17-40L lens). The depth of field issue is a matter of optics. I like the ability to pick out a single object to focus on and blur the rest, and I'm not sure that the smaller sensor will be good enough.

Still, after all that talk, I cannot argue with the success that you and many others have had with the 10D - the results are simply phenominal. I don't know if it is exactly equal to 35 mm film, but with the capability to adjust images individually with software, I think it is better.

As for depth-of-field, perhaps the "aps" size will serve the purpose just fine. I don't know for certain, but I will find out soon.

I just remembered something else - the 1.6 can be a great addition to the pro bag, and not just as a backup. Where else can you get a quality 1.6X converter for the occasional long shot. You do a lot of long-range shooting and have to appreciate the benefit of the narrow angle-of-view when you want to reach out and touch someone. :)

[DaveG]

I think the 10D will remain the upper-end pro-sumer camera and the Drebel serving the "standard" consumer of dSLRs. There is room for all these cameras. I see them really kicking the 10D replacement (fall 2004?) up in features and staying with the 'APS' sized sensor. This is the perfect combination. You can have your FF 1Dx and then use the 10Dx as a 1.6 backup.

Perfect!

The only issues I 'might' have with the "aps" sized sensor would be the longer depth-of-field and the greater difficulty in getting wide angle lenses. I suspect that the wide angle problem will be cured (and already is for many with the 17-40L lens). The depth of field issue is a matter of optics. I like the ability to pick out a single object to focus on and blur the rest, and I'm not sure that the smaller sensor will be good enough.

Still, after all that talk, I cannot argue with the success that you and many others have had with the 10D - the results are simply phenominal. I don't know if it is exactly equal to 35 mm film, but with the capability to adjust images individually with software, I think it is better.

As for depth-of-field, perhaps the "aps" size will serve the purpose just fine. I don't know for certain, but I will find out soon.

I just remembered something else - the 1.6 can be a great addition to the pro bag, and not just as a backup. Where else can you get a quality 1.6X converter for the occasional long shot. You do a lot of long-range shooting and have to appreciate the benefit of the narrow angle-of-view when you want to reach out and touch someone. :)

I think that the danger is to forget that you could always get the 1.6 conversion with your Elan II by simply cropping the centre part of the frame. You can do this but it isn't good. A full frame DSLR may look like you've lost that telephoto bang for the buck, but assuming that it's a higher MP camera, you could go back to cropping. On the wide angle front it's take a 12-13 mm lens to get me back to what a 20 mmlens owould do for me with a 35 mm camera, so I'll have to take issue with your comment that a 17-40 (I have the the 16-35) will do the job.

[Tom W]

I think that the danger is to forget that you could always get the 1.6 conversion with your Elan II by simply cropping the centre part of the frame. You can do this but it isn't good. A full frame DSLR may look like you've lost that telephoto bang for the buck, but assuming that it's a higher MP camera, you could go back to cropping. On the wide angle front it's take a 12-13 mm lens to get me back to what a 20 mmlens owould do for me with a 35 mm camera, so I'll have to take issue with your comment that a 17-40 (I have the the 16-35) will do the job.

Yes, the larger sensor, if it has same pixel density of the 10D, affords the ability to crop down to the same angle-of-view as the 10D and still provide the same quality of the 10D. This is essentially digital zoom, whether done by the camera or on the computer. I agree, cropping 35's for the express purpose of gaining a telephoto view wouldn't produce the best results. I've done very little cropping on 35's.

I haven't had the pleasure of going to 20 mm with my Elan, but I've found 28 mm to be much more useful than I had thought it would be. I am going to be in a lens delemma again with the 10D, since I don't have anything wider than 28 mm. I almost envy the D-Reb's kit lens, if only for its very useful zoom range (makes a good walk-around lens).

I'll likely be purchasing wider lenses over time, but I won't replace all of my lenses at once - too expensive.

[GenEOS]

I could not find any date along with that article. Sounds like some good ideas though...

[Phil Hall]

T have been using a 1Ds for just over a month. The full size is great with wide angle lenses, for telephoto lenses I still like the crop on the 1D. Maybe the cure is a 600 mm lense.

[Tom W]

T have been using a 1Ds for just over a month. The full size is great with wide angle lenses, for telephoto lenses I still like the crop on the 1D. Maybe the cure is a 600 mm lense.

Phil - you've got just the right equipment to do an experimental comparison between a cropped picture from a full-sized sensor and the full picture of the 1D's sensor. I'd be curious as to the results of such a comparison.

[Moses]

T have been using a 1Ds for just over a month. The full size is great with wide angle lenses, for telephoto lenses I still like the crop on the 1D. Maybe the cure is a 600 mm lense.

Phil - you've got just the right equipment to do an experimental comparison between a cropped picture from a full-sized sensor and the full picture of the 1D's sensor. I'd be curious as to the results of such a comparison.

I would very much like to see this comparison too. Perhaps the same shot taken positioned the same on a tripod?

[Phil Hall]

I have been thinking of a number of comparison shots. At the moment I am in hawaii until the end of the month and do not have all my "stuff" with me. I will try some shots with the 1D and 1Ds when the weather improves..lotsarain.