Shooting motor sport...

[Cadwell]

Hi, it's my first post on here so please be gentle with me :wink:

I spend most of my free time going to motor sport events and over recent years taking photos has become a more and more important part of the experience for me. I've finally got fed up with the limitations of my compact digicam (although I have had some reasonable results) and have decided to dip my toe into the world of digital SLRs...

I've read a large number of reviews and scoured forums like this and I've come to some conclusions about what I should buy. Would you guys care to cast your eyes over my list of bits'n'bobs and offer any advice? Of course my budget is not limitless (I don't mind my children going hungry, but them starving is right out :wink: ) so please bear that in mind.

. Canon EOS 10D with battery grip
. Canon EF 17-40mm f4.0L USM (for the paddock and motor shows)
. Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM (as a general purpose lens)
. Sigma 120-300mm f2.8 with 1.4x TC (for the long range stuff)
. Speedlite 420EX

Does this lot make sense? Is it plain daft? Am I likely to get pictures of just tarmac (now that's happened often enough).


p.s. Before anyone calls the child protection services, I have no children, it was a joke....

[defordphoto]

Heheh...Starve the children! Anything for an L-class lens!

If you can afford it, I'd go with the Canon 100-400L IS. It's the perfect range for out on the track and its sharpness and color rendition is outstanding. 300mm is just too short for those longer shots and you'll miss those eyes-in-the-helmet shots that I love. Otherwise your selection is looking pretty good.

Note: Time to toss the kids another crumb. :)

[PaulB]

I know Jim shoots Motorsport as I do, and that he uses the 100-400mm to good effect so is better qualified than I on its' merits.
I have handled the 120-300/2.8 Sigma and was not overly impressed, although no doubt Canuck will come and offer his thoughts on it (he raves over his).
Personally I like to use prime lenses for the long stuff - 300/2.8L and Extenders etc. - but from the spectator areas you are likely to need a bit more reach. The 100-400mm looks like a good bet.
From your Sig. I assume that you tend to inhabit a certain Lincolnshire circuit a fair bit?
All the best from Yorkshire.

[iwatkins]

Cadwell,

Welcome to the forums. By that name I'm guessing you are a UK resident and are maybe a big fan of Cadwell Park ? My favorite track for track days. Spent many an hour trying to get airbourne over the mountain :lol:

Anyway, by motorsport, are we mainly talking track stuff here or also rallying ?

If mainly track I would go with Jim's recommendation for the Canon 100-400L IS. In the UK, for most tracks you really do need the reach of the 400mm. Obviously, also look at other lenses as well, but at least 400mm is a good start. Some tracks you can get away with less and maybe you might want the reach of a 500mm for Silverstone (depending on your position and what event is on). Much cheaper of course is to get press accreditation and then you can get much closer to the track and hance a cheaper shorter lens. :D

For paddock and motorshow shots get as wide as you can. With the 1.6 crop factor of the 10D a 17-40mm lens actually works out as a field of view of a 27-64mm in 35mm film terms. Therefore it isn't as wide as it sounds. I have the Sigma 17-35mm and I do struggle to get cars fully in shot without taking some large steps backwards. This is especially true trying to get side shots of say a GT car. You end up quite a way away which also limits your chances of keeping everyone else behind you and out of shot. This is especially true at motorshows where everyone just bimbles about and doesn't pay attention to the fact you are trying to get a shot.

I've recently bought the Sigma 12-24mm which should be perfect for capturing whole cars in shot. OK, they will be distorted but I'll get it all in :D

Also budget for any software you might want to use. In addition, you may consider a monopod for all day events/help with panning.

Add to that, you will want some batteries and probably quite a bit of memory.

Cheers

Ian

[KennyG]

As far as camera choice is concerned, you will do OK with a 10D and grip. For something like the BTCC you will need a second pair of batteries as you can easily take 500-1,000 shots.

For lenses, the 28-135 will do OK in the pit lane but you should consider the 100-400L for track work. It outclasses the Sigma and the extra reach is really worth having.

Paul, another Yorkshireman trackside? I'm often spotted at Croft, Oulton and Donnington (amongst others), sometimes on track, but generally behind the Armco.

Another one for the doubters about the 100-400L being soft at 400mm. Oulton Park, BTCC, 10D, 100-400L @ 400mm, 1/400, ISO400, F5.6

http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/op-bmw.jpg

[Tom W]

Man, I love these racing photos. I can see the right front grabbing just a little air, the left front is turned in just a bit, but you just know that its drifting based on how the tire is flexing (and if he weren't, he'd be in the infield in short order). He's clipping the apex as tight as he dare to lengthen the radius of the turn. You can even see the driver looking beyond the curve to the place he wants to go.

This picture tells a bit about driving technique as well as being a great photo. :)

[defordphoto]

It doesn't get much better than that. Great shot, Kenny. The extreme camber on the front wheels. The right off the ground and the left grabbing all the track it can as it flexes to max extremes.

Sweet!

Here's a comparable ChampCar shot at 400mm an F8 at 1/500 and no post-processing:

http://racefamily.racinglines.com/Galleries/2003/CART/Portland/Friday/pir_friday2003_0121_std.jpg

[Tom W]

Stop it, you two. I'm drooling. By the time this thread dies out, I'll have every "L" lens that Canon makes. :D

[timmyquest]

It doesn't get much better than that. Great shot, Kenny. The extreme camber on the front wheels. The right off the ground and the left grabbing all the track it can as it flexes to max extremes.

Sweet!

Here's a comparable ChampCar shot at 400mm an F8 at 1/500 and no post-processing:

http://racefamily.racinglines.com/Galleries/2003/CART/Portland/Friday/pir_friday2003_0121_std.jpg

Looks like the old guy in the backround likes the 100-400 too :-D

[defordphoto]

Heh yeah. The final copy of this was cropped. I think that's actually a 70-200 though.

[RichardtheSane]

Some great shots here, definitly very impressive stuff.
I know that I couldn't achieve the same sort of consistently good results but I would love to try my hand at motorsports photography. I've been meaning to get over to Donnington for ages (I live very nearby!).
I think my main question is what do you have to do to get close enough to the barriers to have a chance of getting some good shots? I have dona a few days shooting off-roading and at those events you just find a good (safe) spot, set up and enjoy. I would imagine it is very different at donnington though, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. :)

[defordphoto]

The closer the better. Media credentials or access to media shooting areas are a must at most tracks. Some of the lesser professional forms of motorsports aren't as restrictive as F1, CART, ALMS, etc., but you can't get these kind of shots from the stands.

[chris.bailey]

Some great shots here, definitly very impressive stuff.
I know that I couldn't achieve the same sort of consistently good results but I would love to try my hand at motorsports photography. I've been meaning to get over to Donnington for ages (I live very nearby!).
I think my main question is what do you have to do to get close enough to the barriers to have a chance of getting some good shots? I have dona a few days shooting off-roading and at those events you just find a good (safe) spot, set up and enjoy. I would imagine it is very different at donnington though, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. :)

Try some of the lesser tracks and lesser events. At Snetterton you can still get very near trackside and I'm sure some of the others are similar. Having tried, and failed miserably, a couple of times in the past, some of the shots these guys are getting are awesome.

[iwatkins]

I would imagine it is very different at donnington though, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. :)

Richard,

Dono is one of the better tracks for shooting. This is mainly due to the fact that quite a bit of the circuit has raised banking on the outside of the track. In addition you can also walk most of the exterior and some of the infield. The stands on the start/finish actually afford good views, especially of cars spinning out coming through the Esses :shock: .

Best thing to do if you are local is to get down during a track day rather than a motorsport event. Everything is less hectic and access is easier. Scoot about finding the best locations for shots and practise your panning shots.

Then when there is a race event on you can go down and already know where you want to be and what sort of angles you can cover.

I think Dono is currently closed for resurfacing work at the moment, you would have to check with the track.

Cheers

Ian

[ssim]

Thought that I would jump into this one. I have had the 100-400 L IS since last summer and it is a great lens. A little on the heavy side and you will certainly know it after a day of shooting.

I took this shot at the Montreal CART racing this summer. I had only got this lens the day before and was well before I knew much about photoshop. It certainly isn't the caliber of RFM'S or KennyG's but I was pleased with the results.

http://www.pbase.com/image/20561728.jpg

[chris.bailey]

Thought that I would jump into this one. I have had the 100-400 L IS since last summer and it is a great lens. A little on the heavy side and you will certainly know it after a day of shooting.


I would be quite pleased with that. In respect of the 100-400, do any of you guys use a monopod?

[defordphoto]

ssim: Nothing wrong with that shot. Is that from the stands? It sure shows that I still need to process my shots and punch the color some.

[ssim]

ssim: Nothing wrong with that shot. Is that from the stands? It sure shows that I still need to process my shots and punch the color some.

Yup, that was from the stands. I had actually bought myself gold level tickets and they were pretty good if you wanted to be just a spectator but for someone like me who wanted to shoot, they weren't that great. God how I would have loved to had better access to the track.

I've already purchased my tickets for the 2004 Montreal Grand Prix and am hoping for better results.

About the only thing that I did to this shot was boost the saturation. This was a point in time in my photoshop experience when I knew next to nothing.

Thank for your kind words.
Sheldon

[KennyG]

Some great shots here, definitly very impressive stuff. I know that I couldn't achieve the same sort of consistently good results but I would love to try my hand at motorsports photography. I've been meaning to get over to Donnington for ages (I live very nearby!).

Hmm, Donnington. It is one of those tracks where they have gone mad with wire fencing, nearly as bad as Silverstone. You have to hunt about a bit to get a good spot.

If you can get close enough to the fence and get the aperture right you can make the fence magically disappear as it falls OOF. However, if I were you Richard, I would make the trip over to Oulton Park where it is really photographer friendly. I'm one of the lucky ones with credentials, but all that does is make it easier for me to get a clear shot. Give it a go, you will have fun.

I like the odd rally shoot, but only if the weather is good. I'm getting too long in the tooth to stand around for hours in the cold and wet. A good tip for cold weather - buy a pair of Sparco karting gloves. They are thick enough to keep most of the chill away but are just perfect as photographer's gloves, with a lot of feel and grip.

Tom, I have raced on that particular circuit and the bend where he is exiting is key to get a good run up a short climb that follows. You are looking 'through' quite a way. It is my favourite circuit to race on and take pictures at. Being low down helps give a feel for the car dynamics in the shot. I have been known to shoot through the grass just to get that different angle. What we do in the name of sport.........

This is what can happen when the pack following have more exit speed than you do out of that bend. A bit of a sandwich!


http://www.ken.grey.dsl.pipex.com/images/btcc2003/btcc-o-mhm.jpg

[neil_r]

Oh yes we love Donington and really Lurrve the 100-400 L

btw only 3 n's in Donington :?


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.rice1/forum/don1.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.rice1/forum/don2.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.rice1/forum/don3.jpg

Neil

[Tom W]

This thread is excellent, though its getting a little slow. :P

I'm very impressed by all the race photos, cars and bikes alike. Fantastic work, all y'all.

[Cadwell]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice :) I guess I'd best order some bits and see if I can emulate some of these excellent pictures. My first meeting of the season is some Rallycross down at Lydden on the 14th of Feb so it would be good to have everything in place by then. I'll let you know how things turn out.

[RichardtheSane]

Sorry I hijacked the thread a bit, but thanks to those who gave me some advice. I really appreciate it and I look forward to getting over to Oulton Park to see what I can do.

KennyG, how close to the track can you get without any credentials at Oulton? It is quite a journey for me and I an going to try and get as much info as possible before I pick an event and make a day of it.
Probably a daft question, but how do you get credentials? What are they based on?
Me proving I know nothing about motorsport photography (but want to learn, even if it takes years, which I know it will :) )

[PacAce]

Oh yes we love Donington and really Lurrve the 100-400 L

btw only 3 n's in Donington :?

Neil

Neil, great motorcycle shots!!!! Makes me want to get on my Honda CBR600 and take it out for a spin. :? Oops. Forgot... I sold it last year to pay for my 10D and lenses. :oops:

[neil_r]

Neil, great motorcycle shots!!!! Makes me want to get on my Honda CBR600 and take it out for a spin. :? Oops. Forgot... I sold it last year to pay for my 10D and lenses. :oops:

Off topic I know but what the hec.....

PacAce my "Other toy"

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.rice1/forum/daytona-1.jpg

If i had to get rid of either the camera or the bike I would get rid of the wife

Neil

[PacAce]

Off topic I know but what the hec.....

PacAce my "Other toy"

...

If i had to get rid of either the camera or the bike I would get rid of the wife

Neil

Neil, you just HAD to rub it in, didn't you? :cry:

Yeah, I didn't want to give up my bike but I got married a few years ago and ended up riding less and less often to the point that the bike was just sitting in the garage most of the time. :( <sigh>

[KennyG]

KennyG, how close to the track can you get without any credentials at Oulton? It is quite a journey for me and I an going to try and get as much info as possible before I pick an event and make a day of it.
Probably a daft question, but how do you get credentials? What are they based on?

At Oulton you can get really close. If you look at the circuit map ( http://www.thisischeshire.com/cheshire/oultonpark/ ) you will see the hairpin at Knickerbrook - now that's a really good spot and is awash with photographers at the bigger events. At Cascades you are almost close enough to shake hands with the driver as he/she passes. Oulton has lots of opportunities for the photographer to get some really great shots.

The biggest events are the BTCC, F3/GT and the Gold Cup. Tons of parking, but get there early. Go along for one of the bigger club events run by the BRSCC or BARC to "get your eye in".

You have to apply for credentials with a valid reason for having them and they are not given out easily. I'll chat it through with you off-line if you are really interested.

[RichardtheSane]

Kenny, thank you for your reply and that really helpful info. I will definitly get myself over to one of the bigger club events at Oulton to see how I get on with it. I have also realised that Mallory Park is not that far from me, once they open for the new season I may pop over there to practice - from their website the track seems fairly accessible for spectators and photographers.

Also thankyou for your kind offer to talk about credentials. I may take you up on that offer later in the year if I find I am getting on with fairly well, if that is OK. I am definitly very interested but before I consider taking it any further I would like to see if I what it takes to learn motorsports photography :)

Before I do anything, from what I have read in the past, I think i would be wise to invest in some more CF cards and a couple more batteries. Probably a car charger too, more because of the peace of mind I would want after travelling quite a way to get the shots!