Cheaper camera kit is not always better and why...

[Canuck]

Hi all,
This is in regards to the deals (or lack thereof) on camera kit you will find on the 'net. First of all, shop with a known reputable dealer out there like B&H in NYC and few others. I buy from B&H. This is the worst case scenario...You go to Jim-Bob-Joe's Cameras on the 'net and you see he has a Canon EOS 10D for like $900. You thinking this is a deal that this is the deal of the century. Not so much, and here's why. First of all the Canon EOS 10D is about $1500 from B&H and others. This price would be a mega flag to me that there is something going on here that is really fishy. We all know identity theft is on the rise and what better way then to sell you (you think) a camera. They now have your name, cedit card #, expiration date. Some people out there have no consience and will run up your card with their stuff! Well, you wait and wait and wait and no camera. They mysteriously disappear of the 'net and the face of the Earth for that matter and you don't have the goods you ordered and they still have your card # and other info. So the end of the day, you're out the money with no recourse and all in the name of saving some money. Don't become a victim! Caveat emptor!

I also would like to mention that unless you know the person, buying lenses and cameras off E-Bay is not a good idea!

Please feel free to add reputable dealers out there and we will check to see that they are reputable!

I will start this one: B&H

B&H are definitely safe! I have spent thousands there and will continue in the future.

[figment]

Sorry the hear about your misfortune. May the thief live and interesting life.

[Canuck]

Sorry the hear about your misfortune. May the thief live and interesting life.

I have never had a problem, touch wood! I am trying to prevent everyone else from making a mistake, especially the newbies!

[Thierry]

I bought my 10D from butterflyphoto.com (Full US package w/ battery, USwarranty, CF card, manuals, software CDs for around 1,340.00 USD about 6 months ago). I had absolutely no problem.
It was my first order there and they called me back to check. They tried as usual to sell other stuff but not aggressive or pushy. And I received the camera just a few days later.

Thierry

[arthurb]

... So the end of the day, you're out the money with no recourse and all in the name of saving some money. Don't become a victim! Caveat emptor!

I deleted most of the text, since the story is most unlikely. Certainly, the advice, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is." applies much more on the internet. Although, there are lots of good deals to be found.

But as far as the money goes, maybe the rules and laws are different in England, but here in the states, your total liability would be $50, and in most cases the Credit Card companies will waive that.

The most important thing is to always use a Credit Card (or PayPal) on internet purchases. Using checks, or other payment options gives you no recourse, and can cause you to loose the money and the items.

I also would like to mention that unless you know the person, buying lenses and cameras off E-Bay is not a good idea!


Buying used equipment off of eBay is as risky as buying used off line. On some items eBay prices are higher than off line, but in other cases there are good bargains, such as batteries.

Digital Rebels are currently priced at retail on eBay, so it seems better to buy from a camera dealer, or Best Buy.

Its good advice to tell people to use caution when buying, but the original story in this thread seems like fear mongering, since Canuck later admits that it didn't happen to him.

[IanD]

If you are dealing in The Great White North (Canada) Simons Camera in Montreal (www.simonscamera.com) is heads above any other shop. 70 years of knowledge and they have based their reputation on the 3 S's
Service Service Service

[defordphoto]

Even if the scenario is unlikely, it is certainly not impossible. On the other side of the coin are the infamous seedy, nasty Brooklyn, New York stores that are just clamoring to snag your money and your order for that cheap camera deal. Then they call you and want you to order many hundreds of dollars worth of add-ons that you don't need. If you refuse to order the add-ons then your camera is suddenly back-ordered for weeks, maybe even months. That, my friends is reality and here are some links:

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,107855,pg,1,00.asp
http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/pictures/BrooklynStores/

As for Ebay, a story I know as fact, a purchase was made of a D60 kit for upwards of $2,000USD. The guy disappered. Phone number disconnected. *Poof* Gone. All you can do is file a police report and get in line.

I paid $1325 for my 10D back in May 2003 from CDW using a corporate account.

Yes, you can find some deals out there, but just be careful. How about the guy that logged on here asking about a 1Ds for sale for what was it? $1500 or something like that? Obviously that camera is stolen.

Anyway, put your trust in established online dealers such as B&H, Samys, Adorama and Canoga. Yes there are a few more, and there are many more stores to purchase CFs and other accessories. Remember that you're spending a lot of money and just because someone has a cool looking website, that does not make them a good place to send your personal information and money to.

[Ballen Photo]

I no longer use PayPal since they have been bought out by what I consider to be a company that lacks scruples and ethics.
Also after reading this post I found in another forum.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=4458505#post4458505
........Bruce

[Mikesht]

Resellerrating.com usually gives a pretty good idea about the seller. But certanly if it's so much cheaper, you should be carefull, that's for sure.
Here is my list where I had an excellent experience:

Willoughby.com - bought Oly E-20 camera
B&H - camera and lenses
Newegg.com - memory cards, batteries and charger
ShopHarmony.com - bought my 10D
digitalfotoclub.com - lens

All brand new, with USA warranty, no problems at all.

I hope this helps somebody.

[Cordell]

But as far as the money goes, maybe the rules and laws are different in England, but here in the states, your total liability would be $50, and in most cases the Credit Card companies will waive that.[/quote]

This is not always the case. Some credit card issuing banks are not applying the $50 minimum fee to customers if a purchase is made over the net, or from a catalog. This is a growing change within the industry. Go to the NY Times site and do a search and see. It's been published in other financial mags and papers too. Better yet, look over the terms of your own credit card company because they will make changes within the limitations and other places. Although they may (or may not) send you a notice with your statement, who reads all that small print stuff when you're only concerned with how much money on credit you have for the next L glass.

[Canuck]

Even if the scenario is unlikely, it is certainly not impossible. On the other side of the coin are the infamous seedy, nasty Brooklyn, New York stores that are just clamoring to snag your money and your order for that cheap camera deal. Then they call you and want you to order many hundreds of dollars worth of add-ons that you don't need. If you refuse to order the add-ons then your camera is suddenly back-ordered for weeks, maybe even months. That, my friends is reality

I put on the original post worse case scenario. I was saying that it happens, need I remind you of the store in Crooklyn?

As for Ebay, a story I know as fact, a purchase was made of a D60 kit for upwards of $2,000USD. The guy disappered. Phone number disconnected. *Poof* Gone. All you can do is file a police report and get in line.

This was another possible scenario that actually happened. I rest my case there.

I paid $1325 for my 10D back in May 2003 from CDW using a corporate account.

Yes, you can find some deals out there, but just be careful. How about the guy that logged on here asking about a 1Ds for sale for what was it? $1500 or something like that? Obviously that camera is stolen.

I was merely trying to warn all of you and that the possibility exists!! The story about the 1Ds for $1500 was another story that popped into my head. Just be aware!

Anyway, put your trust in established online dealers such as B&H, Samys, Adorama and Canoga. Yes there are a few more, and there are many more stores to purchase CFs and other accessories. Remember that you're spending a lot of money and just because someone has a cool looking website, that does not make them a good place to send your personal information and money to.

This was the main point I was trying to get across that just because a no-name place has unreal cheap prices doesn't mean much. Think before you spend that serious amout of cash. I would hate to see anyone get taken for a ride to the tune of several grand.

[MarkH]

Read through the comments about A&M Photo World:
http://resellerratings.com/seller1988.html
(Note the likelyhood of buying from them again: 0.26 out of 10)

A pretty good illustration of why you should be careful of who you buy from.

Trying to save money can get expensive.

[Canuck]

Read through the comments about A&M Photo World:
http://resellerratings.com/seller1988.html
(Note the likelyhood of buying from them again: 0.26 out of 10)

A pretty good illustration of why you should be careful of who you buy from.

Trying to save money can get expensive.

Now that is what I am talking about too, the other side of the coin!!! There is bait and switch or grey market or outrageously priced accessories and so on. Thank you Mark!

[arthurb]

Now that is what I am talking about too, the other side of the coin!!! There is bait and switch or grey market or outrageously priced accessories and so on. Thank you Mark!

Yes! And had your original post talked about those real happening things , rather than a hypothetical dealer who just collects Credit Cards for identity theft, my post would have agreed with you.

There are a lot of stories about on-line fraud, but common sense will protect you from a lot of them.

I personally don't trust ANY NYC camera dealers, since every time I have called for a quote or to order, I get guys who can barely speak english, and they try to get you to order "Extra" stuff, which is actually included if you buy from an honest dealer...

[Belmondo]

I personally don't trust ANY NYC camera dealers, since every time I have called for a quote or to order, I get guys who can barely speak english, and they try to get you to order "Extra" stuff, which is actually included if you buy from an honest dealer...

I don't think you should paint with so broad a brush. B&H, Adorama, 17th Street, and several others are all perfectly reputable, and they generally speak English (or what passes in New York as English :D )

[chris.bailey]

BEst advice I have is to only deal with someone from whom you have some form of recommendation. In the UK I have dealt a lot with Warehouse Express and found them superb. They may not always be the cheapest but as an Internet vendor their service is superb with most things arriving by courier the next day, once, I ordered in the morning and it was there in the afternoon!

[Canuck]

Now that is what I am talking about too, the other side of the coin!!! There is bait and switch or grey market or outrageously priced accessories and so on. Thank you Mark!

Yes! And had your original post talked about those real happening things , rather than a hypothetical dealer who just collects Credit Cards for identity theft, my post would have agreed with you.

There are a lot of stories about on-line fraud, but common sense will protect you from a lot of them.

I personally don't trust ANY NYC camera dealers, since every time I have called for a quote or to order, I get guys who can barely speak english, and they try to get you to order "Extra" stuff, which is actually included if you buy from an honest dealer...

arthurb,
Remember, I put specifically, "This is the worst case scenario..." in the original post. The other bit is yes there are dealers out there that are definitly dodgy at best in NYC, mostly Crooklyn as I call it. There is
B&H in Manhattan and last I checked that was one of the 5 boroughs of NYC as of writing this post, so you can find reputable dealers in NYC, but they can be hard to find. I think you should have a look at this site: http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/pictures/ and at almost the bottom are "Brooklyn Store Fronts" and "Manhattan Store Fronts". Under Manhatttan Store fronts, there is this one of B&H where I shop: http://www.donwiss.com/pictures/ManhattanStores/h0002.htm
I have people that I know have been there and they say it is massive! They have also been around for 30 years! Their website is www.bhphotovideo.com and I can't begin to tell you how much money I have spent there in camera kit. Believe me it is a lot! I got both lenses with UV/CPL filters I use and the FlashTrax drive and more minor stuff. The lenses are for the thousandth time the Canon 16-35 F2.8L and Sigma 120-300mm F2.8EX. I would definitley shop with them (B&H) again.