The Official PMA Rumor Thread

[defordphoto]

Love PMA rumors? Post them here. In an attempt to keep the PMA rumors corralled into one area, and rumor threads to a minimum, here's your rumor-sandbox. Should you buy now or wait?

Have fun! This is an open discussion area. Feel free and post rumor links in this thread. Be aware nothing has been confirmed by Canon.

Please be advised that at the time of this writing that there still have been no official word from Canon on what is going to be released at PMA 2004. Almost assured is a new 1D, which is Canon's professional workhorse. Rumors have it going to 8 megapixels, 8 FPS and a 40-frame buffer.

Rumors fly about the 10D. Will there be an upgrade? Will there be a 8 megapixel 10D? Most point to a fall release of a new 10D.

Rumors also have the 1Ds going to 16 megapixels. One thing is apparent is that if all these rumors are true we have moved from the 6.5 factor up to the 8 factor for sensor resolution.

Disclaimer: This site does not confirm or deny the existence of any rumors and suggests that you wait until Canon makes the official announcement before deciding what is true or untrue. As soon as an official announcement is made available, it will be posted on this forum.

[khkohl]

WOW... I get slashed by you and called a NEWBIE and worse yet a NEWB for just contributing to a thread in progress. I contributed information coming from a Brazillian website.

And now it's okay to start this topic again, because it's being started by YOU.

Anyway, I would like to reiterate, it is a worthy topic!

:wink:

[Dans_D60]

A reliable measure it to look where companies spend their marketing/advertising money. These programs can cost millions and attempt to create product demand for at least 3-6 months. February issues of several photo mags have Canon displaying double full page ADS for the D-Rebel, 1Ds, and 10D. Nothing on the 1D. I would estimate this month’s advertisements from Canon for the 10D and 1Ds are well into the $200K+. Assume from this investment only the 1D is on the chopping block for PMA.

Dan
www.carlsbad-photography.com

[tpinchback]

I heard that the Nikon D70is 10x better than the Drebel. Cannot find the specs of the D70yet, so I cannot confirm. Anybody heard or seen anything else let us know. thanks

[Andy_T]

Well, it's also 5 times more expensive...

Regards,
Andy

[CyberDyneSystems]

I heard that the Nikon D2H is 10x better than the Drebel. Cannot find the specs of the D2H yet, so I cannot confirm. Anybody heard or seen anything else let us know. thanks

The D2H has been avaible for months?

Check it's review at dpreview. It is a $4,000.00 camera that is designed fro high speed sports etc... It is very similar in specs to the Canon 1D and no the Drebel does nt compare. I have no idea how anyone would quantify the "10X" claim however?

[tpinchback]

Sorry I was mistaken, it was the D70.

[GenEOS]

Disclaimer: This site does not confirm or deny the existence of any rumors and suggests that you wait until Canon makes the official announcement before deciding what is true or untrue. As soon as an official announcement is made available, it will be posted on this forum.

PMA rumors are flying even on the sacred dpreview site. Why should this one be any different. Why a disclaimer? Kinda goofy. This site is a Forum, when people look for official announcements, they look towards manufacturers or to vendors. Forum sites are basically just that, forums. I won't going into the meaning of "is", but come on....
I commend the effort to corral everything into one thread, should clean up the posts.

[Andy Somnifac]

PMA rumors are flying even on the sacred dpreview site.

Sacred? I'd have to argue against calling those forums sacred. They're always full of rumor mongering, trolling, flaming, complaining, measurbating, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are some people over there who are truly looking to help, but they're not the majority.

Andy
www.somnifacient.us

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sorry I was mistaken, it was the D70.

Ah,. that makes more sense,. still, I don't see the D70 being 10X better! :)

As I recall the specs I was aware of made it seem pretty equal to the DRebel.

I'd like the D2H.... if it would mount my Canon lenses :wink: :)

[defordphoto]

WOW... I get slashed by you and called a NEWBIE and worse yet a NEWB for just contributing to a thread in progress. I contributed information coming from a Brazillian website.

And now it's okay to start this topic again, because it's being started by YOU.

Anyway, I would like to reiterate, it is a worthy topic!

:wink:

Yes, I agree that it is a worthy topic and that's why I asked Pekka if it was alright that I started this, so this thread does have his blessing with is much more valuable than mine. Post that link again if you want. Have fun with this! :)

[defordphoto]

From another thread here: http://www.muhlenbock.com/122.pdf

The 1D II

(Let's keep the rumors/and whatever else you find) in this thread please.

Anyway, it's in French, but this looks like the real thing.

8 megapixels, 5FPS for 40 frames

Yeah baby! Now we just need a price. I have a feeling this baby's going to be expensive. $4K at least on the street. :(

[defordphoto]

Actually 8.2 megapixels.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Rumours no more!

Links to the new gear PDFs

1D-MkII (http://www.dphoto.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=111)
28-300mm L IS (http://www.dphoto.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=112)
70-300mm DO (http://www.dphoto.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113)

Right click and "Save as" or just clisk

[CyberDyneSystems]

DOH! lol,. too fast Jim :shock:

[Tom W]

http://melba.student.utwente.nl/stephan/temp/canon/

Link to PDF files on the Camera and two new lenses. All in French, which makes them very hard for me to understand. There are but a handful of words that I can read there.

[Tom W]

Here's a list of what I can understand from the pdf file (I cannot speak French)

8.5 mpx, 8.2 effective
28.7X19.1 mm sensor
1.3X crop multiplier
100% viewfinder image
21 zone AF eval, 8.5% selective AF, and 2.4% spot metering.
something about multispot metering
Auto white balance, plus manual from 2800 to 10,000 K
30 sec to 1/8000 + bulb
AE, Tv, Av, DEP, manual, +/-3 bracketing
8.5 images/sec - 40 image buffer in large JPG, 20 in RAW
10 or 2 second shutter delay
100-1600 ISO, plus 50 and 3200 Extended
E-TTL II and flash bracketing
230,000 pixel LCD
CF type I and II, and microdrive
JPEG, RAW, RAW+JPEG
RAW 3504x2336 8.2 mpix
Large 3504x2336 8.2 mpix
Med 1 3104x2072 6.4 mpix
Med 2 2544x1696 4.3 mpix
small 1728x1152 2 mpix
Something about a 30 second WAVE file (movie mode?)
Firewire, USB 1.1, Video
Direct print, Exif pring, pictbridge, DPOF 1.1
magnesium, aluminum, polycarbonate constriction
21 functions
3 groups of functions personizable
27 personal functions ??
Due April, 2004.

That's about all I could make out. :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Actually 8.2 megapixels.

And,.. adjustable! Either 5fps or 8.5fps!!!! :mrgreen:

This is looking really sweet.

It seems the only downside is that the flash synch has dropped from the 1D 1/500th down to 1/250th ???

A truly odd choice for a sports camera? But the Nikon D2H is only 1/250th as well...

[PacAce]

If the 1D II specs in the PDF is for real and if my French hasn't deserted me (and that's a BIG IF), it looks like the 1D II is one impressive camera. It beats the D2H with 8.5 MP CMOS vs D2H's 4.26 MP JFET sensor. Frames/sec-wise, they're almost on par with 3 and 8.5 fps for 40 frames in JPEG and 20 frames in RAW for the 1D II vs. 1 to 7 and 8 fps for 40 frames JPEG and 25 RAW. But I think if we factor in the bigger CMOS size of the 1D II, it's fps is really impressive!

As far as metering goes, it looks like the usual Evaluative, Partial and Center weighted with an addition of a 2.4 degree spotmeter.

And it even has a sound recorder (30 seconds worth).

I think I've just about exhaust my French 101 at this point :mrgreen:

[Tom W]

Leo, I'm glad you've had French 101 - I've had none. I just recognized the numbers and a couple of words and assigned them as such. Looks impressive.

Keeping Nikon on their toes (or on their heels).

[ilya]

Holy Cow!! I want one. From what I can tell about the 1D II (if of course this isn't a hoax)

- continuous drive of 8.5 FPS for max of 40 (compared to old 1D with 8 fps for max of 21). Sports shooters will rejoice everywhere. RFM, polish that card.
- They went to CMOS. Interesting. A while back I wrote somewhere that CCD will be replaced by CMOS in a few years time, after reading a pretty good analysis on Digital Photo Pro comparing the two. Looks like Canon just did. (this is a speculation thread, still..)
- 8.2 megapixels. Very nice.
- New improved DIGIC processor. Interesting what they improved
- TWO flashcard slots
- ISO from 50 to 3200
- new ETTL system.
- 230,000 pxl LCD screen
- more precise White Balance system

Downside - this can't be less then $4k.

[PacAce]

Leo, I'm glad you've had French 101 - I've had none. I just recognized the numbers and a couple of words and assigned them as such. Looks impressive.

Keeping Nikon on their toes (or on their heels).

Tom, I didn't! :) I was, well, not home-schooled, but car-schooled in French....just listened to those French CDs just for the heck of it. Figured it may come in handy one of these day and wouldn't you know it....it did for a little bit, at least! :mrgreen:

[PacAce]

Hey, here's something interesting. Remember how we've been complaining about the useless embedded JPG files in the RAW image? Well, it looks like the 1D II may give you the option of NOT having the JPG data embedded in the RAW. :D

[defordphoto]

Thanks for the translation TomW. Man, I want this so bad I can hardly breathe. I know I am going to be disappointed in the price. This is really an awesome camera.

Anyone need a kidney? A lung maybe? :shock:

[Tom W]

Its going to be interesting to see if Canon has anything else up their sleeve. :wink:

[Tom W]

Thanks for the translation TomW. Man, I want this so bad I can hardly breathe. I know I am going to be disappointed in the price. This is really an awesome camera.

Anyone need a kidney? A lung maybe? :shock:

I need a 70-200 f/2.8 L lense. :)

[Thierry]

Here comes the French...
I went through all 3 pdf's and here maybe some new stuff:

First of all, the French is pretty good and they could very well be official Canon flyers.

About the EOS1D-II:
Factor 1.3 X
Start: April 2004

About the 70-300 DO:
New 3 layer DO lens (the 400 DO had a 2 layer one)
Availability: May 2004

If there is a special part of any flyer that you would like to get translated, let me know !

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks for the translation TomW. Man, I want this so bad I can hardly breathe. I know I am going to be disappointed in the price. This is really an awesome camera.

Anyone need a kidney? A lung maybe? :shock:

I need a 70-200 f/2.8 L lense. :)

Are you sure you don't want to buy my 70-200mm f/2.8 Sigma :mrgreen: :roll:

[Tom W]

maybe... tell me more.

[Mikesht]

Holy Cow!! I want one. From what I can tell about the 1D II (if of course this isn't a hoax)

- continuous drive of 8.5 FPS for max of 40 (compared to old 1D with 8 fps for max of 21). Sports shooters will rejoice everywhere. RFM, polish that card.
- They went to CMOS. Interesting. A while back I wrote somewhere that CCD will be replaced by CMOS in a few years time, after reading a pretty good analysis on Digital Photo Pro comparing the two. Looks like Canon just did. (this is a speculation thread, still..)
- 8.2 megapixels. Very nice.
- New improved DIGIC processor. Interesting what they improved
- TWO flashcard slots
- ISO from 50 to 3200
- new ETTL system.
- 230,000 pxl LCD screen
- more precise White Balance system

Downside - this can't be less then $4k.



It sounds pretty nice, but I am failing to see that significant something that should cost 3 times more than 10D as far as I am concerned. I am keeping my 10D :-)

[Tom W]

It sounds pretty nice, but I am failing to see that significant something that should cost 3 times more than 10D as far as I am concerned. I am keeping my 10D :-)

I'm with you on keeping the 10D (especially since I just got it), but if I were a pro with an older 1D, I'd be seriously considering this version. And, if I were still a film hold-out pro with a Canon outfit, this might sway me. It depends on pricing point. This camera rocks (if it is real, and I think it is).

My guess is that Canon will price it very close to Nikon's new model.

Sometimes, competition is very cool...

[ilya]

Misha,

The 1D when it came out was about $3,200. The 1Ds was about $7500. This new 1D has many of the features that the 1Ds has, plus the FPS speed and buffer. In otherwords, this is now somewhere in between, and better in lots of instances then the 1Ds, again, namely the FPS, and doubling the megapixels. In fact, this thing could be around $5k easily.

One step backwards, presumably because it went to CMOS from CCD is taking the shutter speed from 1/16000 (old 1D) to 1/8000, which is also the max for 1Ds.

The ISO rating went from 200 min to 50 min. That's interesting because the 1D is a sports camera, and therefore, no sports purist cared about having 50 or even 100 ISO. Now, this thing is squarely positioned as both a high performance sports camera, AND a professional studio cam. As I write this, I'm thinking it will be $6k (and the 16mb 1Ds II will be $10k).

Then there are the little things. The LCD resolution is doubled. Dual memory slots that take SD cards now. Custom functions like the 1Ds.

Anyway, this to me is compelling. Will I buy it - probably not, as its more cam then I need. But it sure is nice.

Ilya

[CoolToolGuy]

It looks like it accepts Secure Digital as well as CompactFlash. Interesting.

Now, as long as it is for real...

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[khkohl]

EOS 1D MARK II

Directly inspired of the EOS-1D, the EOS-1D II becomes the new reference pro: Sensor CMOS 8,2 Megapixels, motorization up to 8,5 i/sec up to 40 images JPEG in sequences, new processor DIGIC, 2 residences memory board, news measures E-TTL with the flash.


More The chart To print the card To send to a friend

Use recommended:
Professional, for an intensive use under all the conditions of catch of sights.


The technical synthesis:


Sensor resolution Optical zoom Provided memory Obturator Video mode

8,5 mégapixels (8,2 manpower) Carbon and super-duralumin

The most produced:

• Sensor CMOS 8,2 Megapixels • Motorization up to 8,5 images/sec • Buffer high capacity 40 Images in JPEG • New processor DIGIC • Balance white ultra-precise • 2 residences memory board CF and SD • Sensitivity from 50 to 3200 ISO • New measurement flash E-TTL • Screen LCD high resolution 230 000 pixels • Compatible PictBridge and PTP


Description:

Again, Canon confirms with an effectiveness and a speed of innovation, its total engagement in the development of its system numerical reflex camera EOS. After the advent of the EOS-300D, the numerical accessible one to general public, after the very general-purpose EOS-10D, and the EOS-1DS with sensor full format, Canon reconsiders the front of the scene with a new occupational numerical reflex camera which comes logically in the place from the EOS-1D. the EOS-1D II is not satisfied to be a simple substitute but on the contrary, is affirmed within this numerical range EOS by a marked personality and by many innovations which will allure the most demanding professionals the EOS-1D II is a esthète smoothness of image thanks to a sensor CMOS of 8,2 million effective pixels for a quality of image very high It is also affirmed like the tool of infernal rates on many plans: give rhythm of catch of sight carried uninterrupted to 8,5 im/s (8 im/s for the EOS-1D) with a number of maximum sights per sequence of 40 sights in broad JPEG (21 for the EOS-1D), an exceptional endurance of the obturator: 200 000 releases minimum (150.000 for the EOS-1D), a port IEEE 1394 to 4 pins allowing a transfer at the speed of 100 Mo/s. It adds to it from now on a remarkable speed of image processing thanks to its processor DIGIC of new generation and an increased speed as regards writing on the memory board. In the field of storage, not only the EOS-1D II accepts the supports of recordings of more than 2 Go but it in addition has 2 residences to use 2 types of memory boards (1 CF and 1 SD) whose recording can be simultaneous or selective. The total control of returned colors is ensured by 5 matrices with clear identification of their specificity (Standard, Portrait, High saturation, Espace Adobe RVB, weak saturation) more 2 matrices personnalisables and a histogram RVB which makes it possible to control the distribution of the primary colors in the image. The EOS-1DII allows a new approach as regards adjustment of balance of the white by the integration of a numerical filter color which makes it possible to apply effects of corrections equivalent to those obtained with filters DC (9 levels of correction in bleu/ambre and magenta/vert). A new measurement flash E-TTL even more precise, with analysis of the distance from the subject via optics. It offers also a comfort increased in the phases of visualization of the recorded images: a display screen of 230.000 pixels for an optimal resolution in posting of the images recorded, rotation of the vertical sights automatic or manual, possibility of enlarging of 1,5x with 10x on 15 levels, video exit. Compatible Pictbridge a simple connection USB with a printer makes it possible to immediately print after the catch of sights the photographs carried out. Software side File Viewer Utility profits from a new development which increases its performances and the possibilities offered to the user: speed of treatment of files RAW, faster posting of the images, pallets separated for adjustments RAW and the adjustments from tonal curves, posting of infos IPTC (infos of telecommunications) and new function of enlarging of a zone of the image for an accurate check of the development.
Technical specifications:



. CASE Numerical reflex camera with interchangeable objectives (mounting EF) except EF-S


. SENSOR CMOS with primary filter color (RVB)

. PROCESSOR DIGIC II

. CUT SENSOR 28,7 X 19,1 mm

. DEFINITION 8,5 mégapixels (8,2 manpower)

. CUT PIXELS 8,2 X 8,2µ

. RATIO IMAGE 2: 3

. FOCAL DISTANCES Coefficient 1,3x


. AUTOFOCUS • TTL-AREA-SIR with sensor CMOS • 45, 11ou 9 automatically activated collimators AF or sélectionnables individually manually • Possible memorizing of only one collimator • Mode One-shot and Servo Have predictive • Beach of development from 0 to 18 EV for 100 ISO



. SIGHT • Cover image 100 % • Enlargement 0,72 X • Dioptric corrector integrated of - 3 into + 1D • Hide ocular integrated • 9 interchangeable glasses of aiming



. MEASURE LIGHT • Evaluative 21 zones coupled with collimators AF • Selective 8,5 % • Spot centered 2,4 % • Spot 2,4 % coupled to 11 or 9 collimators AF • Multispot on 8 points • Integral with central prevalence



. BALANCE WHITE • Automatic with sensor CMOS + disengageable manually (6 modes) • 9 levels of corrections of the balance of the white: bleu/ambre and 9 magenta/vert • Bracketing car ± 3 IT by 1 value • Manual adjustment of the temperature of color of 2800 K to 10 000 K • 3 balances of the memorable white via software



. STAMP COLOR • 5 Matrices to select the colour, the chrominance, the beach of color + 2 personnalisables



. OBTURATOR • Carbon and super-duralumin. From 30 dryness with 1/8000 2nd + poses B • Synchro flash 1/250 2nd



. MODES • Program décalable, Tv, AV, EPD, Manuel • Bracketing car ± 3 IT by 1/3 of value • Correction of exposure ± 3 IT by 1/3 or 1/2 of value • Memorizing of exposure • Control depth of field • Adjustment of the parameters of clearness, curves of tonalities, contrasts



. MOTORIZATION • Sight by sight, 3 im, 8,5 im/sec up to 40 sights in broad JPEG and 20 in RAW in sequences • Retarder 10 secondes/2 seconds



. SENSITIVITY From 100 to 1600 ISO with function of personalization from 50 to 3200 ISO



. MEASURE FLASH • New E-TTL II compatible Speedlite EX • Correction of exposure + 3 values by 1/3 of value • Bracketing with the flash • Catch synchro flash



. AFFICHAGE • Ecran LCD 2" 230 000 pixels avec 5 niveaux de luminosité via menu • Grossissement de l’image en lecture de 1,5x Ã* 10x • Rotation automatique et manuelle de l’image • Histogramme lumière, histogramme RVB



. ENREGISTREMENT • Carte CompactFlash type I, II et Microdrive IBM • Carte SD • Commutation automatique FAT 16 ou 32 • Formats d'enregistrement: JPEG, RAW, RAW + JPEG • Modes d'enregistrement : RAW (3504 x 2336) 8,2 Mo, Large (3504 x 2336) 8,2 Mo, Medium 1 (3104 x 2072) 6,4 Mo, Medium 2 (2544 x 1696) 4,3 Mo, Small (1728 x 1152) 2Mo • Enregistrement sonore via micro intégré en fichier WAVE. 30 secondes maximum par image


. CONNEXION Interface IEEE 1394, USB 1.1 (PTP), Vidéo (PAL/NTSC)


. IMPRESSION Compatible Direct print, DCF 2.0, Exif print version 2.21 et DPOF version 1.1, PictBridge



. ERGONOMIE • 21 fonctions de personnalisation du boîtier • 3 groupes de fonctions de personnalisation mémorisables. • 27 fonctions personnelles. • Enregistrement automatique des données de prise de vue



. FINITION • Capot et façade en alliage magnésium, chambre réflexe et platine en aluminium, • châssis en aluminium moulé, polycarbonate et fibre de verre



. ÉTANCHÉITÉ 70 points d’étanchéité Ã* la poussière et Ã* l’eau via joints et cloison de silicone


. ALIMENTATION Batterie NP-E3 12V 1650 mAh (1200 vues environ Ã* 20°)

. DIMENSIONS 156 x 158 x 80 mm

. POIDS 1220 g (sans alimentation)


Contenu du carton :

Batterie NP-E3, chargeur NC-E2, coupleur DCK-E1, courroie L5, câble d'interface IFC-400 PCU, IFC-200D4, câble vidéo VC-100, pilotes TWAIN, logiciel EOS Viewer Utility / EOS Capture PhotoStich, Digital Photo Professional livrés en série

[ilya]

Gotta love autotranslators. Specially the "It is also affirmed like the tool of infernal rates on many plans: give rhythm of catch of sight carried uninterrupted". :lol:

Note the upgrade to the FVU...

[Mikesht]

Misha,

The 1D when it came out was about $3,200. The 1Ds was about $7500. This new 1D has many of the features that the 1Ds has, plus the FPS speed and buffer. In otherwords, this is now somewhere in between, and better in lots of instances then the 1Ds, again, namely the FPS, and doubling the megapixels. In fact, this thing could be around $5k easily.

One step backwards, presumably because it went to CMOS from CCD is taking the shutter speed from 1/16000 (old 1D) to 1/8000, which is also the max for 1Ds.

The ISO rating went from 200 min to 50 min. That's interesting because the 1D is a sports camera, and therefore, no sports purist cared about having 50 or even 100 ISO. Now, this thing is squarely positioned as both a high performance sports camera, AND a professional studio cam. As I write this, I'm thinking it will be $6k (and the 16mb 1Ds II will be $10k).

Then there are the little things. The LCD resolution is doubled. Dual memory slots that take SD cards now. Custom functions like the 1Ds.

Anyway, this to me is compelling. Will I buy it - probably not, as its more cam then I need. But it sure is nice.

Ilya

There are no questions, it's cool. You got to love the technologies! And since it's a pro oriented camera, I am sure that those sport events reporters will make use out of a huge buffer it has, as well as speed.
8 megapixels versus 6 is not a huge thing in my eyes, it will only let you print larger sizes (well, and crop larger too, but Ansel Adams cropped in camera, so can we, right?). Again, for reporter it is great. Portrait photographer? I don't know.
I actually do not think that this camera will bring the price of 10D down, it is not a replacement for it, neither a competition. The other one, (1Ds is the name?) is out of my reach anyway (and 95% of a population of US) :-))
I am just trying to keep cool here :-))

[Tapeman]

Be still my heart. Now the big anticipation is price. I wonder if I'll be able to afford the occasional can of Alpo with my kibble.

[defordphoto]

Be still my heart. Now the big anticipation is price. I wonder if I'll be able to afford the occasional can of Alpo with my kibble.

Yeah. I don't even think my grubworm plan will work with this one. That baby's going to be expensive.

That's fine. I see a 17-40L and some others toys for my awesome 10D on the horizon.

[CyberDyneSystems]

$3,200.00 or less,. I think I can swing it...

I just passed uo the lens of my dreams,. I mint condition 200mm f/1.8 L

...if you don't know about this lens,. there's not much I can say other than it's one of the three best lenses Canon ever made,. and they stopped making it :(

The asking price was .. you guessed it,. $3,200.00


...which would have completely taken me out of the 1DMkII market for a LOnnnnnnnnng time coming....

Fortunately,. on my drive home from work,. the owner put it up on E-bay,. and it is allready priced over it's original asking price.

[Jim Larson]

:shock: Why does everyone think this camera would be $4000+?

Do any of you realize how precedent breaking that would be?

Has any company yet released a digital camera that was more expensive than the model it replaced? My bet is $2500-$3000 for a camera that matches these specs.

Also: Do you any of you remember the news of the D40 and D80 of a year ago? This could easily be an official hoax.

The only things that make me think this is a hoax is the "dual memory card" (who would use that?) and 1.3 FOV crop (all indications were abandonment of the 1.3 step).

[PaulB]

Jim,
I had information about the 1D MkII some while back and I can assure you that the dual (CF& SD) card fitting is NOT a hoax. This is the very thing that convinces me that the French web page WAS genuine - no-one could have thought that one up unless it was true.......and the 1.3x was retained 'because sports shooters love it'.
All the rest of the info. squares with what I was told, the Digic 2, frame rates, sensor size and type etc.
If you want to see approx. when Iknew of the update look for a post on dpreview by Paul Pope when he said that he had had his hands on a new camera which would blow the Nikon D2H away (or suchlike). I posted saying that I knew what he had tried out and 'I wanted one!'
Confidentiality has kept me quiet about this until the French made le cock-up with what I believe was a trial web page in preperation for the real announcement which somehow went live.

[mvrekum]

Just a repost from the MKII thread of why I think the story about the MKII is bogus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I think this is totaly crap. Why?

First of all the PDF that everybody is so full about is amateur work. Please compare this yourself with the PDFs of other Canon cameras.

Secondly the PDF is supposed found on the site of Canon France. This can not be true, because all european websites link for brochures to the site of Canon europe (www.canon-europe.com)

Third Canon announced they would publish 20 new digital cameras this year. That is an average of about 2 cameras a month. So why does somebody who finds Canons new "top" model doesn't find any other cameras, he finds only that what everybody is waiting for.

There are to many signs that this is a made up story. So I hope you do not fall for this.

Martin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How to set up a scam like this:

1. Find a heavily used forum for digital Canon cameras

2. Register yourself on that forum several times under different IDs

3. Design a PDF with the required information

4. Search Canon France for a link that does not work. They use a numeric ID for their pages wich is not sequential, so you can easy find some numbers that do not work.

5. Publish your found link(s) on the forum. Everybody will look for the page, but nobody will find anything, since the pages do not exist.

6. Log on the forum with your second ID and post an "I have seen it to" message.

7. Log on with your third ID and post some information of this new camera.

8. Now log on with you last ID and publish a link to your home made PDF (which does not follow Canons corporate Identity guidelines => mistake).

9. Now nobody has seen it but everybody believes it. We are having a big laugh now

Fall for it if you want to

[PaulB]

I SAW the Canon France web page a couple of minutes prior to it being taken down, and it WAS (as far as I could make out) a legitimate Canon France web address. The PDFs which have been posted are a cut and paste job from translations of the web page I saw.

Jim,
Further to my earlier reply Ithe Paul Pope/me post was on dpreview in the Canon 1D/1Ds forum on the 8th. November 2003

[iwatkins]

Hoax or not, that is a nice camera.

Alarm bells are ringing though on certain aspects.

1. USB 1.1 ? Why ? No one in their right mind produces an item that can only transfer images over USB 1.1. Yes, it might be an oversight by Canon, but I can't see it somehow. Anyway, not a great problem if you have a card reader or can use FireWire.

2. No mention at all about Compact Flash writing abilities. I.e. no mention of WA or which high speed cards it will be able to use. As for SD, why would you want to use SD when you have invested in Compact Flash assuming you are upgrading.

3. The way the whole lot of information was available. Something smells there. Now whether it was a Canon smoke and mirrors trick to whip up interest or simply a hoax I don't know.

Cheers

Ian

[PaulB]

USB 1.1 -
for direct printer connection

SD cards -
SD slots built into most PDAs which are connectable to cellphones. (CF is only available as a (bulky) add-on.). Useful to PJs and Sports Photographers - no need for a laptop!
SD cards are newer than CF, fast writing, 512Mb (and growing), designed for DRM compatibility. Future proofing going on here.
Precedent for different cards set by Olympus E10 & 20 which have CF and SM.

[ilya]

:shock: Why does everyone think this camera would be $4000+?

Do any of you realize how precedent breaking that would be?

Has any company yet released a digital camera that was more expensive than the model it replaced? My bet is $2500-$3000 for a camera that matches these specs.

Also: Do you any of you remember the news of the D40 and D80 of a year ago? This could easily be an official hoax.

The only things that make me think this is a hoax is the "dual memory card" (who would use that?) and 1.3 FOV crop (all indications were abandonment of the 1.3 step).

This is a speculation thread. If we were to qualify everything with "tho it could be a hoax", it would look silly.

About the price - there are 20 new cameras. I'm thinking there will be deflation on the low end, and inflation on the high. The 1D is not for the average joe. that's assuming its not a hoax 8) Time will tell, i'm sure that we will all be wrong on some level.

[mvrekum]

It seams like Nikon has broken the silence, see dpreview -> news

Lets hope Canon will follow today.

[Tom W]

Nah, I think they will let people hype about the Nikon, then Canon will blow them out of the water at PMA with better specs and better prices. Canon would only pre-announce if the nikon cameras were actually on sale before PMA

I believe you're right - Canon may have "leaked" a teaser out there to pre-empt Nikon's already-announced 1D competitor. Kind of like saying "Wait a month or two and we'll best their newest offer".

[it's all a dream] The other reason it smells of hoax to me is the lenses - A green stripped prosumer 75-300IS-DO? What would that sell for? Would this be a direct competitor to the 70-200/4L?

I suspect that the 75-300 will be the midrange upgrade to the 75-300. I also suspect a price range around $400-450 US. Its a much-needed step between the 75-300 and the 70-200 f/4.0L lens.

Also, no EF-S lenses? Is that line dead already? Canon really needs a 12-24 EF-S lens to compete with competitors on the low end. (12-24 non-EF-s would be nice, but doubtful).

I'm not sure where they might be going with the S series. I think it just provided a low-cost lens alternative for entry-level DSLR cameras. If anything comes out on the wide end (and I hope it does), it would be something in the normal lens mount so that those of us with 10D's and 1D's can enjoy that end of the field-of-view spectrum. Perhaps a 12-24L and a wider-range replacement for the 20-35 f/3.5-4.5 for the midrange buyer.

Where is the 24-70/4L?

Good question. There's always the mid-range 24-85 f/3.5-4.5, but there is a gap between that lens and the 24-70 f/2.8 L right now. Personally, I'd be more interested in the f/2.8 lens in that range.


I read the post above about dual card capabilities. I dunno. It just doesn't make sense on a camera at this level. This is a camera, not a card reader. It's not a prosumer camera. Logically, you would pick one format or the other and be done with it. Can't be for space/weight issues - camera is heavy and many would still need a flash. [/it's all a dream]

I don't know enough about the card issue, but if there's an up-and-coming new media out there, it might be wise to offer both the old and the new capabilities.

[laugh of the day] SD on cell phone? Ok. I can see it: Here, I will upload 256mb of critical pictures over a cell phone. . .oops! Tunnel coming up in 10 miles. . .oops! [/laugh of the day]

Good! improved E-TTL! Maybe that will quiet down all the whiners!

heh heh - I'm not in a position to whine about E-TTL yet. I'll let you know after my sister's wedding. :D

(and you can bet that I'll have good film in the FT just in case!)

[Tom W]

Weird- Pekka!!! How did my reply to Jim Larson end up ahead of his post?

[PacAce]

Weird- Pekka!!! How did my reply to Jim Larson end up ahead of his post?

Possible answers:

1. You stepped into a worm-hole;

2. You passed through a time-warp;

3. You entered the world of the Twilight Zone.

4. You took the "Back to the Future" train by mistake.

[scottbergerphoto]

I'm glad I have a birthday coming up!!!!!!!! :wink:

[Pekka]

Weird- Pekka!!! How did my reply to Jim Larson end up ahead of his post?

See http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24105

[Belmondo]

It sounds pretty nice, but I am failing to see that significant something that should cost 3 times more than 10D as far as I am concerned. I am keeping my 10D :-)

I agree. I plan to buy one as a backup to the 10D. :wink:

[CyberDyneSystems]

The SD card had me worried too...

It is just not viable as a pro level card. CF offers up to 4 gigs, SD only 512?

The Fuji Olympus consortium has there XD which though just as lame as everything else out there that is NOT CF is in fact a bit better than SD as far as specs go, and I think it can scale farther in the long run.

Where SD does make sense is its adoption... why it has become the darling of the PDAs and Cell phones is anyones guess,. but is has,. and thus it has an installed base that continues to grow.

It would be nice to do away with all the other formats, and leave behind two seperated by intended performnce (ie: CF for pro cameras and something like SD for the smaller consumer needs) with Canon now backing SD things may change.

My problem with SD is it is inherently designed to enable copy protection regardless of the OWNER of the cards wishes.

How this affects a photographer is open to debate, but it does leave some of us with certain feelings concerneing privacy completely boycotting SD and any product that uses it. :(

[PaulB]

Jim,
You have obviously not had to send images back to the office before press deadline time from an evening football (soccer) match. All the Pros have laptops connected to a mobile (cell) phone and use that to send off the first two or three action shots of the night as 'bankers' to get in well ahead of deadline. Well with a mobile phone enabled PDA with SD card slot you won't need the laptop........
As for EF-S lenses - they only fit the 300D and are only those owners wanting 12-24mm EF-S lens? No of course not; the 10D/1D/1D MkII & 1Ds users would like one too but would be locked out. I'm sure Canon have better things to spend R&D funds on than very small selling ultra-wide ranges! The Sigma 12-24mm is £500+ in the UK (the Canon presumably wouldn't be that much cheaper to produce) whilst the 300D kit 18-55mm is around a £100 - big market there then.

[CyberDyneSystems]

More on SD
from CNET;

Secure Digital includes software that complies with Secure Digital Music Initiative standards protecting against unauthorized replication of copyrighted content. As a result, digital-audio files downloaded from music services, such as Napster, cannot be played on devices that use Secure Digital cards.

In the past, related attempts to prevent piracy have been unpopular with consumers and some manufacturers. In late February, for example, IBM withdrew a proposed method of digitally tagging content to prevent the unauthorized duplication of copyrighted material.

Possible backlash
"In the short term, there is likely to be a backlash from early adopters that could hinder growth" for Secure Digital, said Alan Niebel, chief executive of Web-Feet Research, which closely follows the flash memory market.

Niebel added that other flash formats are likely to face similar issues as they try to balance copyright protection with useful features for consumers.

Such a balancing act is even more difficult in a market known for its instability.

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-269939.html

[CyberDyneSystems]

Remember this;

Orin Hatch, John Ashcroft and the RIAA ARE the DEVIL :twisted:

These three entities have done more in the last 3 years to eat away at your civil liberties than you may imagine.

[PacAce]

Remember this;

Orin Hatch, John Ashcroft and the RIAA ARE the DEVIL :twisted:

These three entities have done more in the last 3 years to eat away at your civil liberties than you may imagine.

CDS, I'm just speculating here but what if the SD slot is NOT for a memory card but a card like a BlueTooth device? Like I said, I'm just speculating but where would that take us if we thought along that line instead of the SD memory card line?

[GenEOS]

I can conceive the theory of the SD card. Not for writing to while shooting, but tranfering a photo to the SD card from the CF card. You could conceivably shoot with a 4GB CF card and have a 512 SD card loaded in the camera. When you get your money shots on the CF, tranfer them to the SD card, pull that card and throw it into your PDA and transmit to the office or ftp site.

This whole thread is wigging me out. I need to buy something!

[KennyG]

Well guys, it isn't a hoax. The NDA has been lifted (apart from images) for those that were testing the pre-production models. The info on the French site is 100% correct. There is even more to the MK II than has been listed above.

Oh, Canon's Korean site has posted the information today so the cat is well and truly out of the bag. One testers comments on the images - "Wow"!

[PaulB]

According to The Register Sandisk have announced a 1Gb SD card at $500 - Canon obviously keep in touch with what's going on in the wider world.

Edited after I saw Kennys' post.

Of course it wasn't a hoax, I knew what it was going to be - the SD card slot clinched the French leak as being correct - and I couldn't tell you all back in November!

[Jim Larson]

Nah, I think they will let people hype about the Nikon, then Canon will blow them out of the water at PMA with better specs and better prices. Canon would only pre-announce if the nikon cameras were actually on sale before PMA

[it's all a dream] The other reason it smells of hoax to me is the lenses - A green stripped prosumer 75-300IS-DO? What would that sell for? Would this be a direct competitor to the 70-200/4L?

Also, no EF-S lenses? Is that line dead already? Canon really needs a 12-24 EF-S lens to compete with competitors on the low end. (12-24 non-EF-s would be nice, but doubtful).

Where is the 24-70/4L?

I read the post above about dual card capabilities. I dunno. It just doesn't make sense on a camera at this level. This is a camera, not a card reader. It's not a prosumer camera. Logically, you would pick one format or the other and be done with it. Can't be for space/weight issues - camera is heavy and many would still need a flash. [/it's all a dream]

[laugh of the day] SD on cell phone? Ok. I can see it: Here, I will upload 256mb of critical pictures over a cell phone. . .oops! Tunnel coming up in 10 miles. . .oops! [/laugh of the day]

Good! improved E-TTL! Maybe that will quiet down all the whiners!

[CoolToolGuy]

Just a couple of observations;
I went to the Canon Korea Web site, and the Mark II is there, big as life, with front, back, and top views. Text is all Korean, but the pictures are there. Google Canon Korea and you'll get there.
This is not the first Canon with an SD slot. The SD10 is a 4MP ELPH (IXUS?) with an SD slot.
Accident or leak? Hmmm.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Tom W]

Just a couple of observations;
I went to the Canon Korea Web site, and the Mark II is there, big as life, with front, back, and top views. Text is all Korean, but the pictures are there. Google Canon Korea and you'll get there.
This is not the first Canon with an SD slot. The SD10 is a 4MP ELPH (IXUS?) with an SD slot.
Accident or leak? Hmmm.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

Leak. Marketing is partly a game of "me first". Nikon tried to steal the thunder with the D2H, knowing full well that Canon was probably going to be replacing the 1D soon. This was Canon's way of saying "keep your L glass, gang, we're bringing out a new tool (or toy)".

I'm not too sure about the purpose behind the two lens "leaks", other than the fact that Canon may want to let people know that they're bringing out a new mid-priced tele-zoom. Perhaps they're pre-empting something that Sigma or Tamron is about to announce (or has already - I haven't followed the issue). It would be good to see something fall in between the present 75-300 and L glass.

[iwatkins]

From Canon Korea:

Image Link to: 1D MkII - Front (http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/pds/product/camera/EOS1DMII_front_l1.jpg)
Image Link to: 1D MkII - Back (http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/pds/product/camera/EOS1DMII_back_l.jpg)
Image Link to: 1D MkII - Top (http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/pds/product/camera/EOS1DMII_side_l.jpg)
Image Link to: 1D MkII - Kit (http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/pds/product/camera/EOS1DMII_kit_l.jpg)

Cheers

Ian

[CyberDyneSystems]

For the full Korean page,

Go here;

http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/global/notice/ann_view.jsp?seq=1868


Any semi confirmed price yet? Or is that a thing we will have to wait for PMA for?

[khkohl]

Did any of the NDA participants get a Price for this bad boy?

[CoolToolGuy]

Did any of the NDA participants get a Price for this bad boy?

Or, for that matter, do any of the NDA participants have any info about other items that are no longer subject to an NDA?

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Mikesht]

It sounds pretty nice, but I am failing to see that significant something that should cost 3 times more than 10D as far as I am concerned. I am keeping my 10D :-)

I agree. I plan to buy one as a backup to the 10D. :wink:

:D :D :D

[GenEOS]

For the full Korean page,

Go here;

http://www.lgcamera.co.kr/global/notice/ann_view.jsp?seq=1868



Does anyone read Korean? This is killin' a poor old redneck, first french, now Korean......

[CoolToolGuy]

Does anyone read Korean? This is killin' a poor old redneck, first french, now Korean......

I think the translation is: 'This thing is way cool. You gotta buy one' :wink: :lol:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[SWPhotoImaging]

It's those "27 personal functions" that sold me! I can see some long winter nights ahead, just me and my DII . . .

Oh! did I say that out loud?

[Tapeman]

I went to the forum on DP this afternoon & read a posting by Steven Anderson. He said he had two prototypes to test. He loved the camera. One of the things he talked about was the 2 memory cards. He said you can shoot with the sd card while the cf card is still writing. and shoot with the door open to change cards etc. I went back to the site a little later and his first posting was gone & he posted another basiclly saying he had to shut up. Apparantly Canon will make the anouncment Tomorrow (Thursday).
There sure is a lot of buzz about this.

[Tapeman]

Correction: Steven Eastwood

[Jim Larson]

[it's all a dream] Maybe it is not a dream :twisted: [/it's all a dream]

[GenEOS]

How do you get on the "a" list to tesat pre-production Canon Gear?
What a j--o--b.

[daaaveman]

Just checked dpreview. It's there, it's official. It's $4499!!! WOOHOO!! Everybody with $4499 laying around be very happy!!

From dpreview:

Pre-PMA 2004: Canon today announced the impressively specified EOS-1D Mark II which features a new 8.2 megapixel CMOS sensor, it can shoot at just over eight frames per second and has a 40 frame JPEG image buffer (20 frames in RAW mode). This means that shooting at full resolution at full speed the camera is buffering 69 megapixels per second (or 100 MB/sec). Other changes include the addition of a USB port, an SD slot, the removal of the external white balance sensor as well as some subtle body styling changes. The cost? $4,499 to you Sir...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0401/04012904canoneos1dmkii.asp


And this on the lenses we saw earlier:

Pre-PMA 2004: Canon has today announced the new EF 70 - 300 mm F4.5 - F5.6 DO IS USM zoom lens, the first zoom lens ever to use Diffractive Optical (DO) elements. These new elements, seen previously only in the 400 mm F4.0 DO lens enable this 4.2x telephoto zoom lens to measure less than 10 cm long at the 70 mm position. On a digital SLR with an 1.6x FOV crop such as the EOS 10D this lens has an effective field of view of 112 to 480 mm, on the new EOS-1D Mark II the lens has an effective field of view of 91 to 390 mm. The lens will be priced at $1,299 (US) / €1,299 (EU). (04:00 GMT)
Canon EF 28-300 mm F3.5-F5.6 L IS USM



Pre-PMA 2004: Canon today announced the new EF 28 - 300 mm F3.5 - F5.6 L IS USM lens. This new lens provides almost eleven times push-pull zoom from a wide angle 28 mm and also adds Image Stabilisation (IS). On a digital SLR with an 1.6x FOV crop such as the EOS 10D this lens has an effective field of view of 45 to 480 mm, on the new EOS-1D Mark II the lens has an effective field of view of 36 to 390 mm. The lens will be priced at $2,499 (US) / €2,499 (EU). (04:00 GMT)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Official EOS 1D MkII Page on Canon Japan (WHIT ENGLISH)


http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos1dm2/index.html

[Belmondo]

Is the $4499 the MSRP, or is that the 'street price?' Big difference.

[eric1]

hi Tom,
$4499 is MSRP. to much 4 me. i guess i'll wait for the 10DII. til' then i'm stuck with a silver cam. ha ha

thanks,
eric1

[mvrekum]

I have to apologize to PaulB. Sorry Paul, you were right after all. :oops:

Martin

[PaulB]

Martin,
No need to apologise - after all the hype on some of the forums and posts it became difficult to distinguish fact from fancy from fiction if you didn't have any real information to go on. Some people were spinning (we should be used to this in the UK!) stories for their own ends undoubtably - it was SO frustrating not being able to put things straight. However given all the hype and spin I think I could have posted the full details that I had back in November AND NO-ONE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED A WORD! But keeping confidences is something I believe has to be done.

Have you seen the real reason for the choice of SD card as the second slot? This was something I was not aware of but Canon have released a Data Verification Kit which verifies that images - on an SD card presumably (that DRM again) - have not been tampered with. Useful for legal/medical and forensic work, as well as for PJs who can now prove that their image of President/PM/Minister X and another woman are genuine and not a figment of an idle Photoshop operative.........

[daaaveman]

Paulb - It is obvious that you have been "in the know" for awhile now. Just curious - where does this "inside" info come from? Can you share?

[PaulB]

I wasn't in the know like Paul Pope over on dpreview and certainly never had my hands on a pre-production sample as he did - lucky fellow!
If I did have a inside line to Canon I wouldn't jeopordise it by broadcasting it and betraying a confidence or breaking a NDA - would I?.

But what I can tell you is that amidst all the hype there seemed to be very few people who were really able to make the connection between, 'what I would like', and 'what is possible and likely' in the update.
I did try and get people to extrapolate from where we are (were now!) with the 1D into the next model in the line - now the MkII, but I did seem to be a voice in the wilderness most of the time

[CoolToolGuy]

Have you seen the real reason for the choice of SD card as the second slot? This was something I was not aware of but Canon have released a Data Verification Kit which verifies that images - on an SD card presumably (that DRM again) - have not been tampered with. Useful for legal/medical and forensic work, as well as for PJs who can now prove that their image of President/PM/Minister X and another woman are genuine and not a figment of an idle Photoshop operative.........

I looked at the press release on DPREVIEW.COM, and what I thought I saw was that the verification program is contained on a card that fits in the SD card slot. But it is early yet. We shall see.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Tom W]

I wasn't in the know like Paul Pope over on dpreview and certainly never had my hands on a pre-production sample as he did - lucky fellow!
If I did have a inside line to Canon I wouldn't jeopordise it by broadcasting it and betraying a confidence or breaking a NDA - would I?.

But what I can tell you is that amidst all the hype there seemed to be very few people who were really able to make the connection between, 'what I would like', and 'what is possible and likely' in the update.
I did try and get people to extrapolate from where we are (were now!) with the 1D into the next model in the line - now the MkII, but I did seem to be a voice in the wilderness most of the time

Well, you were spot on, but the speculation was enjoyable for those of us that had no clue. My speculation started as a wish list, then I toned it down when an act of God broke the film door on my Elan II and forced me to buy the 10D. :D

<begin speculation mode>I personally still think that Canon still has a trick or two up their sleeve for this show. They're certainly not going to let the D70 steal the consumer end of the spectrum. I'm expecting 3 things - a price change at the consumer end (and maybe some minor updates), 1 or 2 more lens announcements (please make them wide), and something big at the top. </speculation mode>

[daaaveman]

If I did have a inside line to Canon I wouldn't jeopordise it by broadcasting it and betraying a confidence or breaking a NDA - would I?.


Thanks Paul. I was just curious. Hope I wasn't putting you on the spot. I work with a lot of NDAs too. I understand.

[Jim Larson]

There is egg on my face: I could not image that the 1D-II could possibly cost this much. And I posted my steadfast opinion.

No way I can get this camera. I am really happy today I bought my 10D on day one of commerical release.

Although I may well buy a 300/4L-IS soon, the new lenses have no appeal to me at all. => the 70-3004.5-5.6 DO-IS at $1300 strikes no interest.

[Tom W]

There is egg on my face: I could not image that the 1D-II could possibly cost this much. And I posted my steadfast opinion.

No way I can get this camera. I am really happy today I bought my 10D on day one of commerical release.

Although I may well buy a 300/4L-IS soon, the new lenses have no appeal to me at all. => the 70-3004.5-5.6 DO-IS at $1300 strikes no interest.

I'm guessing a street price around $800 or so for that new 70-300 DO lens, based on other "retail" prices that Canon uses. For example, the Canon 15 mm f/2.8 fisheye has a list price of $970, but the street price is $579.95 at B&H. Still, I was hoping for something in the $400-500 range as an improvement to the present 75-300 lens.

[PaulB]

Jim,
I agree wholeheartedly about the lenses. I think Canon have missed a trick or two here - the 28-300L is a great idea, but push/pull and such a limited aperture, perhaps they are really trying to create a lotsamoney 'walkabout' market, but at least it has IS which the 35-350L hadn't.
And putting DO technology into the other one? Size I suppose.
Am now trying to scrape together all my pennies for the 1DMkII - £3500 over here......................but just the body I need (camera anyway) to top off the 10D.

[Morden]

Am now trying to scrape together all my pennies for the 1DMkII - £3500 over here.
That's the RRP I believe, so a 'good' initial street price might (I sincerely hope) be nearer the £3000 mark.

[PaulB]

That was the price I was quoted by Park Cameras this afternoon - includes 2x 1Gb Ultra CF cards.

[Morden]

That was the price I was quoted by Park Cameras this afternoon - includes 2x 1Gb Ultra CF cards.
I see. :) That package is not yet listed on their web site, just the £3499 RRP of the body, plus an invite to make a £50 deposit (tempted I am!).

[CoolToolGuy]

Canon USA has chimed in. www.canoneos.com
I haven't looked at it all yet - they link to some Canon Japan sites, but it is all in English. Enjoy :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Tom W]

Canon USA has chimed in. www.canoneos.com
I haven't looked at it all yet - they link to some Canon Japan sites, but it is all in English. Enjoy :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

I saw that - no changes on the lens page... yet. ;)

[Jim Larson]

$4500 is "expected street price" from the Canon "white paper".

(Sorry: don't have the link handy. Chuck Westfall has been posting on the Rob Galbraith 1D/1DS forum).

Other news: Canon is releasing new RAW processing software with camera. Not yet compatible with other models.

[CoolToolGuy]

Canon USA has chimed in. www.canoneos.com
I haven't looked at it all yet - they link to some Canon Japan sites, but it is all in English. Enjoy :!:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

I saw that - no changes on the lens page... yet. ;)

It is 13:15 EST, and the changes to the lens page are happening right now. When I went there at 13:00, the page was the same as last week - the EF-S and the 55-200 were the 'new' items. I went back and looked at the BeBit page (same .JP page as Canon USA), and went back to the lens page, and it was updated. The lens chart had not been updated yet. And the EOS system chart had not yet been updated. :roll: Stay tuned, folks, and you'll get up-to-the-minute updates. :roll: Golly, this Internet stuff sure is some cool stuff, eh :?:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Tom W]

It is 13:15 EST, and the changes to the lens page are happening right now. When I went there at 13:00, the page was the same as last week - the EF-S and the 55-200 were the 'new' items. I went back and looked at the BeBit page (same .JP page as Canon USA), and went back to the lens page, and it was updated. The lens chart had not been updated yet. And the EOS system chart had not yet been updated. :roll: Stay tuned, folks, and you'll get up-to-the-minute updates. :roll: Golly, this Internet stuff sure is some cool stuff, eh :?:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

I see that now - watching the new camera world unfold before our very eyes. :)

Anyway, I'm still hoping to see something on the wide-normal end. :D

[barbwire]

http://canonusapressroom.com/images/1DMarkIIWhitePaper.doc

Read chapter III: and part 5 Value

This part is very interesting.

[Jim Larson]

http://canonusapressroom.com/images/1DMarkIIWhitePaper.doc

Read chapter III: and part 5 Value

This part is very interesting.

Well, they can dream. :)

Ultimately, the market place will decide.

[CyberDyneSystems]

....Have you seen the real reason for the choice of SD card as the second slot? This was something I was not aware of but Canon have released a Data Verification Kit which verifies that images - on an SD card presumably (that DRM again) - have not been tampered with. Useful for legal/medical and forensic work, as well as for PJs who can now prove that their image of President/PM/Minister X and another woman are genuine and not a figment of an idle Photoshop operative.........

Paul,. this IS huge!!!!

I had no idea the RIAA's Big Brother technology could be used to anyones advantage!!!

Well I am red faced now,. what an inspired Idea.. It isn't even something I had ever dreamed of.. awesome!

[Jim Larson]

To follow up my previous post:

The canon statements on value makes one thing clear:

If Nikon and other dSLR makers don't get their act together, we are all going to pay an awful lot for our dSLR cameras.

The whole premise of a decreasing price curve over time assumes that there is competion. Concepts like value pricing the 1D-II at $6000 only survive in an arena where there is little competion and heavy demand. The cameras do *not* cost this much to produce.

If you take alook at the Rob Galibraith forums, you will see the "heavy demand" portion of the market. they are *drooling* over there.

If nikon and other dSLR makers don't get their act together, the eventual 8mp 10D replacement will retail for $1999.

In the case of the 300D, the $899 price is probably more indicative of the production cost (since competion in this arena is more fierce).

[2new]

I saw this on an internet board techbargains.com

Onecall is now taking pre-orders

Canon EOS1D MKII 8.2 Megapixel Digital SLR $4499

http://www.onecall.com/PID_22754.htm?BCPID=119

Disclaimer:
I don't know anything about One Call.com

[Canuck]

I saw this on an internet board techbargains.com

Onecall is now taking pre-orders

Canon EOS1D MKII 8.2 Megapixel Digital SLR $4499

http://www.onecall.com/PID_22754.htm?BCPID=119

Disclaimer:
I don't know anything about One Call.com

Hmmm...
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1873.html
It has a 9.39 rating over the last 6 months and 9.28 lifetime. Interesting. This is purely from the website alone, I have no experience dealing with them either.

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[defordphoto]

$4499. That is WAAAAAY overpriced. That seems to actually be the street price. Sorry folks, as cool as that camera is, I am not paying that much for that camera. It should be closer to $3K. Canon is obviously holding the sports shooters and pros hostage to their new MKII.

I am not going to play that game. I'll wait for a 10D successor and get some more glass instead of going into hock over the MKII.

That's very, very disappointing as I was prepared to spend up to $3500 for this new gem and it looks like half the current 1D clan is also turning their noses up to Canon and not buying it.

Neither am I. As cool as that camera is, it is not $4499 worth of cool.

[Pekka]

More markII photos found: http://www.pbase.com/piranha/eos1dmkii

[Jim Larson]

$4499. That is WAAAAAY overpriced. That seems to actually be the street price. Sorry folks, as cool as that camera is, I am not paying that much for that camera. It should be closer to $3K. Canon is obviously holding the sports shooters and pros hostage to their new MKII.

I am not going to play that game. I'll wait for a 10D successor and get some more glass instead of going into hock over the MKII.

That's very, very disappointing as I was prepared to spend up to $3500 for this new gem and it looks like half the current 1D clan is also turning their noses up to Canon and not buying it.

Neither am I. As cool as that camera is, it is not $4499 worth of cool.

Actually, Canon hopes it will sell for more than $4499. Check out the white paper, section "5. Value". The white paper can be found at the upper right corner of the the "Canon Press room". http://canonusapressroom.com/html/EOS_ID_MARK_II.asp

From my reading, the many are drooling over this camera, and are asking where to send money. I think us "cheapskates" :shock: are in the minority. This is what happens when competition disappears. We should buy stock in Canon.

With a new $4500 camera, I think a 10D replacement is more likely than before. Unfortuntely, a 10D-II could easily be priced at $1999. On the plus side, the camera could easily sport significant improvements to "justify" the price

[completely unfounded specualtion] With a $3000 gap between the 10D and the 1D-II, plus the statement of "20 new digital cameras", there is room for a $3000 prosumer camera in the lineup. Something with the 45pt AF system, but a small sensor.[/completely unfounded speculation]

[GenEOS]

[quote=ilya]Holy Cow!! I want one. From what I can tell about the 1D II (if of course this isn't a hoax)

It sounds pretty nice, but I am failing to see that significant something that should cost 3 times more than 10D as far as I am concerned. I am keeping my 10D :-)

Uhh, I know you can't be serious? Are you? Build quality, speed, ISO usablity, and most of all AF system..predictive AF...etc.etc.

(I know I am going to get flamed for this comment but here it goes..)

It is kind of like comparing a Hummer H2 to a Hummer H1. The lower priced H2 is nicer looking than the H1, it does most all that the H1 does, just not as great. The H1 has some older technology, but is a work horse, while the H2 is pretty and is marketed to two different kinds of owners.
Now when the H1 Mark II comes out, it will be more refined, with whistles and bells from the H2, but yet a super workhorse, built for war.

As explained in the white paper on the Canon site, the EOS 1 body takes more money to produce, its not plastic and composites. It is a finely machined tool. The extra build quality cost money and that gets passed down the line to the consumer. Add to that, the electronic technology upgrades from the 1D to the 1DmkII, I can see the added cost.

[GenEOS]

What's a $1000 more amoung friends,,,,,live a little....

$4499. That is WAAAAAY overpriced. That seems to actually be the street price. Sorry folks, as cool as that camera is, I am not paying that much for that camera. It should be closer to $3K. Canon is obviously holding the sports shooters and pros hostage to their new MKII.

I am not going to play that game. I'll wait for a 10D successor and get some more glass instead of going into hock over the MKII.

That's very, very disappointing as I was prepared to spend up to $3500 for this new gem and it looks like half the current 1D clan is also turning their noses up to Canon and not buying it.

Neither am I. As cool as that camera is, it is not $4499 worth of cool.

[Tom W]

I have to put my $.02 (or is it $.04) in here. This "pre-production" price is not where the street price will settle down at. When a great new product comes out, there's always a handful of people that absolutely want to have the newest, best available. These are the people that will pay whatever price to be the first on their block to have the new product, regardless of cost.

Once that group has their "toy", then the price will begin to drop. I suspect that within a few months, the difference between street and "suggested" retail price will mimic the proportions of other high-end Canon products.

[Jesper]

OK, so now we've got:

- Digital Rebel / 300D at about $900
- 10D at about $1400
- 1D Mark II at about $4500
- 1Ds at about $7000

What do you think will be the next DSLR Canon will come out with? I think the 10D will be upgraded next - and I guess the "10D Mark II" will be more like a digital EOS 3, and it will be priced between $2000 and $3000.

Many people think $4500 is too much for the 1D Mark II. It's too much for my wallet, but I don't think it's too much to ask for such a monster camera that the 1D Mark II is... looking at the specs, it's way better than the old 1D, so no wonder it's a little more expensive.

[Tom W]

OK, so now we've got:

- Digital Rebel / 300D at about $900
- 10D at about $1400
- 1D Mark II at about $4500
- 1Ds at about $7000

What do you think will be the next DSLR Canon will come out with? I think the 10D will be upgraded next - and I guess the "10D Mark II" will be more like a digital EOS 3, and it will be priced between $2000 and $3000.

Many people think $4500 is too much for the 1D Mark II. It's too much for my wallet, but I don't think it's too much to ask for such a monster camera that the 1D Mark II is... looking at the specs, it's way better than the old 1D, so no wonder it's a little more expensive.

There's a hole in the lineup - the DigiReb and the 10D have their spot in the lineup, but there's a big gap before you get to the 1D II. Maybe this is where Canon's second trick will appear - not a replacement for the 10D but a couple of modest changes to the 10D and Digireb along with a price cut. Then, add a new 8 Mpix model in that $2000-2500 range. Perhaps the EOS 3D. 10D body, 1D sensor, and some electronics that fit in between. :D

how's this sound:

DigiReb - $700 ($800 with lens)
10D - $1200-1300
3D - $2000-2500
1D II - $3500-4000 street
1Ds II (surprise #2) - $7500

Speculation is fun!!!!

[GenEOS]

NOW WE ARE STARTING FOR A TEAM....

[quote=Jesper]OK, so now we've got:

how's this sound:

DigiReb - $700 ($800 with lens)
10D - $1200-1300
3D - $2000-2500
1D II - $3500-4000 street
1Ds II (surprise #2) - $7500

Speculation is fun!!!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

It is a lot more than I was prepared to shell out,..

The 1D is allways an option,. used for about $2,400.00 currently,... I assume the price wil go down,. though some are specualting the 1D used price may even go up???

Anyway,. I'll see where I stand when it hits the shelves for real,..
The bummer is that with the D2H only just released,. it is true,. this DSLR will NOT have a near competitor for at least a year.....

//can't imagine Minolta's impending return to DSLRs is likely to have an impact :roll:

[CyberDyneSystems]

On the other hand,..


.. I am almost compelled by GNU law to get this camera based soley on the "Geek Factor" which os in fact.. HUGE! 8)

It's been a while since I've maintained a Dual CPU system... The MKII Has onboard DUAL 32 Bit RISC processors!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Thats like having a circa 1998 Silicon Graphics workstation in your camera!

They claim it means it can perform DOUBLE the amount of autofocus operation per second as compared to the 1D and 1Ds :shock:

And of course the boatlaods of DDR SDRAM though commonplace these days in PCs is a first in a Camera,. and we have no idea how much RAM is in there? I think it HAS to be at least 256 MB but maybe as much as 512MB

[msnow]

$4499. That is WAAAAAY overpriced. That seems to actually be the street price. Sorry folks, as cool as that camera is, I am not paying that much for that camera. It should be closer to $3K. Canon is obviously holding the sports shooters and pros hostage to their new MKII.

I am not going to play that game. I'll wait for a 10D successor and get some more glass instead of going into hock over the MKII.

That's very, very disappointing as I was prepared to spend up to $3500 for this new gem and it looks like half the current 1D clan is also turning their noses up to Canon and not buying it.

Neither am I. As cool as that camera is, it is not $4499 worth of cool.

I totally agree with Jim on this. As nice as this looks on paper it's not worth it. Think of it this way....for $1550+- more you can get a 1Ds. I'm not a marketing guru but it looks like they missed the price point on this one. It's going to hurt 1D MKII and 1Ds sales.

[GenEOS]

I totally agree with Jim on this. As nice as this looks on paper it's not worth it. Think of it this way....for $1550+- more you can get a 1Ds. I'm not a marketing guru but it looks like they missed the price point on this one. It's going to hurt 1D MKII and 1Ds sales.

You have to remember that most of the targeted sales are going to agencies, and large media outlets..deep pockets. The ones that fall into freelancers and average super hobbyiest are bought with blood sweat and tears. Most large papers will snap up 10 or 12 of these babies at the msrp and never look back.

It makes one appreciate it a little more.

[msnow]

I totally agree with Jim on this. As nice as this looks on paper it's not worth it. Think of it this way....for $1550+- more you can get a 1Ds. I'm not a marketing guru but it looks like they missed the price point on this one. It's going to hurt 1D MKII and 1Ds sales.

You have to remember that most of the targeted sales are going to agencies, and large media outlets..deep pockets. The ones that fall into freelancers and average super hobbyiest are bought with blood sweat and tears. Most large papers will snap up 10 or 12 of these babies at the msrp and never look back.

It makes one appreciate it a little more.

Understood, but why wouldn't these same deep pocket agencies opt for the 1Ds as they have in the past? Even with the introduction of the 1D MKII, the IDs is still Canon's premiere DSLR isn't it?

[GenEOS]

The 1Ds is a different beast. It is slow. For sports it stinks. It's fps rate is a lot slower, 3fps, 10 or so in the buffer. The 1DmkII shoots 8fps up to 40...

For media and sports photogs, that will buy you THE shot, vs. A shot. I would give up my D60 for either a 1D or a 1DmkII. I finally decided to get the tool I needed for sports. I could post an example of 3 images taken at a high school FB game. It was the best the D60 could do, 3fps. But if I was shooting at 5fps or wow 8.5fps. I would have been able to choose from 2 awesome shots.

[scsmith10D]

Canon Pro Services Europe has a nice intro / overview of the Mk II.

http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/articles/article.jsp?articleId=80000&pageId=1

[msnow]

Canon Pro Services Europe has a nice intro / overview of the Mk II.

http://www.cps.canon-europe.com/articles/article.jsp?articleId=80000&pageId=1

Very nice link. I want one. One of the cool features I like is being able ot save your personalized settings to the CF card.

[Tom W]

Its been two days and no new rumours. I want embellishment! I want fabrications. I want dirty little lies about the PMA show!!!! :twisted:

[khkohl]

I sold my 10D on Ebay last week ($1325) in anticipation of the rumored New 10D being announced at PMA. So far there have been no indications of any prosumer SLR news. It looks like I will be buying a new 10D at provantage.com ($1396). I suppose I should wait for all the official announcements from Canon.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Its been two days and no new rumours. I want embellishment! I want fabrications. I want dirty little lies about the PMA show!!!! :twisted:

O-kay,. I've had my hands on one for a few hours last night while working with the New England Patriots.

Some undocumented features I noticed;

1. Despite the built in vertical battery grip as opposed to the handy removable one we are used to on the 10D, there is still room in the battery compartment of the vertical grip handle to store your crack pipe. :shock:

2. In addition to the normal neck strap rings,. there is a single large brass ring that extends from the back just below the viewfinder. This is a "Saddle Ring" that makes it easier to use with any pack animals you may have. (Gitzo will be pleased)

3. In addition to the standard CF card slot and the admittedly odd SD card slot there was a third very thin very large slot that I initially thought was the correct size for a slot loaded CD-R ??? But the CD was just slightly too THICK???? It took some doing before I finally found out what media this "mystery slot" would accept. Yep,. you guessed it,. the 1D MkII comes fully equipped to read your old Viewmaster disks!!!!! 8)

It's been ages since I've been able to check out the action stills of Charleton Heston in the old Planet of the Apes Viewmaster series! And they make for incredible 8.2 megapixel prints! Beat that Nikon! "..take your hands off me you filthy ape!!"


The Bad news,.

At one point the 1D MkII refused to open what it refers to as the "Pod Bay Door" ...so I could but in a new flash card.... :( The Camera kept calling me "Commander Bowman"

..Oh ,. did I mention it talks?

Anyway,. it forced me to repeat 3 times "Open the pod bay door please Hal" and then I was finally able to insert the new flash.

Anyone know who "Hal" is?

[Canuck]

Anyone know who "Hal" is?

You must be referring to the Computer from 2001: A Space Oddisey. HAL as it is know was made as a spoof to IBM. It is the previous letter in each case. Just thought you might be interested. Incidentally, it was directed by the now late Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick also did A Clockwork Orange, and Full Metal Jacket and others.
More trivia, I know.

That ability to watch Viewmaster bit may raise the bar for Nikon to come up with their Own Viewmaster clone.

Please let up know if Gitzo is appeased!

[ilya]

Anyone know who "Hal" is?

You must be referring to the Computer from 2001: A Space Oddisey. HAL as it is know was made as a spoof to IBM. It is the previous letter in each case. Just thought you might be interested. Incidentally, it was directed by the now late Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick also did A Clockwork Orange, and Full Metal Jacket and others.
More trivia, I know.



I did not know that ... previous letters :shock: ... pretty interesting. Also a Stanley fan.

[Belmondo]

What are you doing, Dave?

Daisy, Daisy........

DOH! I forgot to charge the battery.

Good new about the Viewmaster slot.

[Tom W]

It is obvious that this thread is in serious need of a new rumor. As the official rumor monger of the forum (self-designated), I hereby submit the following:

Several retailers are out of stock on the standard Canon 50 mm F/1.8 Mk II lens. Speculation dictates that we should be expecting a replacement lens soon. BS indicates that we should expect a metal mount and updated USM focus motor which will resolve the occasionally erratic (and infrequently erotic) focusing manners of the present lens.

[Belmondo]

It is obvious that this thread is in serious need of a new rumor. As the official rumor monger of the forum (self-designated), I hereby submit the following:

Several retailers are out of stock on the standard Canon 50 mm F/1.8 Mk II lens. Speculation dictates that we should be expecting a replacement lens soon. BS indicates that we should expect a metal mount and updated USM focus motor which will resolve the occasionally erratic (and infrequently erotic) focusing manners of the present lens.

I haven't had a lens that focused erotically since my old Pentax screw mounts.

[Tom W]

I haven't had a lens that focused erotically since my old Pentax screw mounts.

That's not what Gitzo says... :D

[Belmondo]

Can't believe him anyway.

BTW, Tom, did you see Gitzo's cousin in the Budweiser Clydesdale ad yesterday?

[Tom W]

Yes i did. Loved the leg warmers. :D

[Canuck]

Does it come with your very own plush Gitzo?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have not set down my "plush gitzo" since receiving it.... :roll:

[Tom W]

Will they introduce the "plush Gitzos" at PMA? Has anything been leaked from Gitzo? :)

[GenEOS]

9 more days till Canon shocks us all with another bombshell of an announcement. I bet it does not have a silver body. 8) :lol: :wink: :twisted:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Canon Introduces the D-2000SUX :D

[Canuck]

Will they introduce the "plush Gitzos" at PMA? Has anything been leaked from Gitzo? :)

Idunno...we need to ask Gitzo and get it straight from the horse's mouth! LOL!!! So it is to you Gitzo, or your duely appointed representive.

Gitzo...what have you to say? "Neigh!" says Gitzo, I can see the trend, just as tight lipped as Canon. Sheesh!

[Canuck]

Canon Introduces the D-2000SUX :D

Already been done...it was called Nikon, NOT Canon!

[Belmondo]

Canon Introduces the D-2000SUX :D

Already been done...it was called Nikon, NOT Canon!

The actual Nikon model is calld the 'Digital, Over-Hyped.' The shortened name is the DOH! :roll: :wink: :roll:

[Canuck]

CDS,
I am thinking the plush Gitzo was a nice addition. You must have him with you all the time???? Is it a sorta good luck charm? :lol: :lol:

Any more wise words from Gitzo? Please keep me posted...
I know he will tell all after PMA, I see where this is going.

[iwatkins]

NEWS FLASH !!!

I've got some real information that came direct from a source at PMA.

1. Canon, Nikon and all the other major makers are all going to introduce new digital cameras at PMA.

2. 3rd Party accessory makers are also going to announce many new and varied items at PMA.

But keep it to yourself.

Cheers

Ian :twisted:

[pradeep1]

Damn Gearheads!

[Canuck]

NEWS FLASH !!!

I've got some real information that came direct from a source at PMA.

1. Canon, Nikon and all the other major makers are all going to introduce new digital cameras at PMA.

2. 3rd Party accessory makers are also going to announce many new and varied items at PMA.

But keep it to yourself.

Cheers

Ian :twisted:

Ian,
Well I think 2 thinks right now. One of them is no duh! The other is you're a fair bbit behind the power curve...this msg was brought to you by Mr Obvious, an automated response that was generated for humour. This message will...well Idunno what it will do?

[MMardis]

Stoking the fire-

Any Canon "insiders" here to confirm or deny the following:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=7535945

...or the author's later comment that SD, not CF, cards represent the future of canon media?

[Jim Larson]

T
R
O
L
L

[CyberDyneSystems]

It's amazing how that forum gets so stirred up by one anonymous meaningless post.

[Belmondo]

It's amazing how that forum gets so stirred up by one anonymous meaningless post.

That's why they're there, and we're here. Besides, we have adult supervision---Pekka.

[MMardis]

Well, perhaps the poster was trolling, perhaps he wasn't, but if the deletion of the thread and further discussion is any indication, it appears he reeled one in...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=7545263

No info on any slr leaked, but those in the market for point and shoot might want to have quick read through that thread.

[ilya]

There will have to be a 1Ds replacement, so I'm thinking this is what it will have to have at the minimum:

Full-frame 20 megapixel CMOS sensor
Continuous shooting down to 8 fps, max 40 images (like the MkII)
ISO range 50 - 3200, but with much better noise handling then even the MkII
In short, all the stuff MkII has, but more megapixels.

So I'm a little stumped. It can't be just about more megapixels. They'll have to show something else to keep up in the high end....something big. Any guesses at what nifty new technology to justify what will likely be an $8-9,000 camera?