Paypal reversed transaction?

[Crashoran]

What does this mean? I had a buyer for a teleconverter and he sent me the payment, I shipped it off to him, and today it said the payment was reversed, and now i have a negative balance.

[Bill Roberts]

This happened to me with a 10-22 I sold a few months ago. In my case the buyer was fine and I had no problems at all with his honesty. It turned out that someone was fraudulently trying to claim money from his paypal account and paypal locked his account, then my account (as the money he'd sent me *could* have been dodgy) until it was all sorted out. It took them a couple of weeks and lots pf phone calls from me before I got the money refunded to my paypal account. Of course your case may be entirely different circumstances. I'd ring paypal and email the buyer as well just to find out what's going on, then take it from there. But I've got to admit that I wasn't impressed by paypal at all in the way that they handled it. Oh... and be careful if you use paypal to pay for anything until they refund it because they'll claw back the negative amount as well ! I find paypal useful but not really to be trusted.

[Crashoran]

He sent the money back to me, but this time like $8 in fees were taken off and im still -$8 on my balance.

[Woolburr]

If you are only out $8....chalk it up to experience. That beats getting stiffed for the whole amount.

[deadpass]

yeah no doubt, check out paypalsucks.com to understand a few reasons why this could have happened.

[rhys]

I would advise not using paypal. Cheques are better than paypal - more tracable and of course they can be produced in court.

[steved110]

The reason you lost the $8 was because he just re-sent the money - so paypal took its fees all over again!

To avoid this you have to 'refund' the cash - there is a button to do this. if you email Paypal and explain the situation, ask your buyer to do the same - they may well give you the 8 bucks back.

[Anthony J Howe]

Many sellers insist as a first choice for Pay-pal and in a lot of instances the only option and this really gets up my goat, for I have had four bad experiences with Pay-pal and I have closed my account. This is another typical example in your case Crashoran of pay-pal allowing this to happen and the victim is short changed without proper explanation.

[rhys]

Many sellers insist as a first choice for Pay-pal and in a lot of instances the only option and this really gets up my goat, for I have had four bad experiences with Pay-pal and I have closed my account. This is another typical example in your case Crashoran of pay-pal allowing this to happen and the victim is short changed without proper explanation.

I won't deal with PayPal. If somebody wants to be paid via PayPal then unless they take credit cards they're out of luck. Similarly if somebody wants to pay me via Paypal (I had one twit refuse to pay via any other method so I told him that it sounded like he was running a fiddle and that I would do no further business with him) then I refuse.

Paypal is outside all the known banking laws and changes its HQ to the place where they can get away without obeying more stringent laws every time the law changes, as far as I can see.

[Skip Souza]

I won't deal with PayPal. If somebody wants to be paid via PayPal then unless they take credit cards they're out of luck. Similarly if somebody wants to pay me via Paypal then I refuse.

Paypal is outside all the known banking laws and changes its HQ to the place where they can get away without obeying more stringent laws every time the law changes, as far as I can see.

Exactly.
If a private party can't wait for snail mail to deliver a U.S.P.S. money order or similar then I don't need what they are selling. I can wait until they are satisfied that they have the $$$ in hand.

[NCOOMBER1961]

What does this mean? I had a buyer for a teleconverter and he sent me the payment, I shipped it off to him, and today it said the payment was reversed, and now i have a negative balance.
HI,
Unless you sold to a verified Paypal account user you have lost your money and will not recover it. (this is what paypal told me grrrrrrr) I had the same thing happen to me when I sold a mobile phone.

Good luck

[cdifoto]

PayPal is the way I accept credit cards. I do not do the volume that is pretty much essential for a standard merchant account, so if you're dishonest enough to be scared of PayPal, then I won't want your business in the first place.

PayPal can screw buyer or seller if one or the other is dishonest. It's not PayPal being scammers.

That said I will get away from it once volume does pick up enough to do the merchant thing.

[PhotosGuy]

Paypal is outside all the known banking laws & IM experience, they are never wrong. Last time they tried to double debit me, but they couldn't as I gave them an account that only had the right amount in it. After much talk, they're still right, & I don't use them.

[rhys]

HI,
Unless you sold to a verified Paypal account user you have lost your money and will not recover it. (this is what paypal told me grrrrrrr) I had the same thing happen to me when I sold a mobile phone.

Good luck


My wife was out $300 because of PayPal. I can't understand why she still uses PayPal.

[harleygirl239]

Guess I'll join the paypal abused club......I mailed a 24-105 to a buyer in Canada, sent it insured. The buyer went to paypal and said he didn't receive it so I got my shipping receipt and went to the post office, they printed off their proof of shipping & DELIVERY. I faxed all this to paypal and they said it wasn't proof enough so they gave the guy back his money and he also has my lens. I'm trying to open an appeal but so far they aren't allowing me to soI'm out over 900.00 & a lens. Paypal in my opinion sucks, I've decided to have my attorney write them a letter.
I won't use them anymore, I'm seeing so many horror stories about honest people getting ripped off.
I'm gonna spread the word
Thanks for letting me rant

[IMARLOW]

Well looks like i will have to be the one who is the opposisite then.
Never had a problem with paypal; i got my money back when ripped off by a seller with no real problem at all.
I only accept paypal for anything i sell on Ebay, stops the scrotes ripping me off.
If i buy anything will only use paypal as it will cover me for the dodgy sellers.
It isnt the cheapest way to go about life, but it works for me.

[LucyRoberts]

Well looks like i will have to be the one who is the opposisite then.
Never had a problem with paypal; i got my money back when ripped off by a seller with no real problem at all.
I only accept paypal for anything i sell on Ebay, stops the scrotes ripping me off.
If i buy anything will only use paypal as it will cover me for the dodgy sellers.
It isnt the cheapest way to go about life, but it works for me.

Dodgy sellers isn't my beef with them, it's dodgy buyers who can manipulate the messed up system.

[Jonathan H]

I detest paypal. I've more or less stopped selling on ebay... even after having it as my sole source of income while in college.

I was selling a case of vert. grips for the D70/D70s. I had about 250 of them, selling for $39.99 - every single transaction went flawlessly until the very last one. Grrrr. They were being sold on close-out, no returns period. Nonetheless, I still happily took a couple back when they were DOA. Then this last one, the woman didn't read and realize it was off-brand, despite being stated THREE times in the auction, and demanded a return and was very nasty about it so I declined. She opened a dispute and we went back and forth in paypal's dispute console about how she wasn't happy with the grip and wanted to return it. I declined again. She finally escalated to a claim under "Item never received."

F*&^!&g paypal sided in HER favor and locked my account. Despite the fact we had been talking for a week about the item that was in her hands. It took over 6 months, 11 phone calls, and 14 e-mails to get everything rectified. Since then, I only accept paypal from established members here or on FM who I know to be honest.

Paypal sucks.

[Village_Idiot]

Paypal blantantly favors the buyers and leaves the sellers in the dust. I've stopped using then since a seller bought an item and within 2 days complained of no receipt of item, even after I shipped it out.

I called several times and gave them proof of delivery and they said it would be taken care of. I ended up with a charge of like $250 on a credit card because they charged my card to bring the account to a positive balance. I called them back and they said they had no record of any previous phone calls and that it was basically too late for them to do anything.

Fortunately I called the credit card company, got the charge reversed, then closed the account.

[robryan]

paypal is a scam, period. as previously mentioned, they're completely outside of standard banking law and you have absolutely no recourse if they screw you.

sad that i've been lurking around here for the better part of a year and this is my first post, haha, but after the experience we had when we tried to start our business still has me dead in the water with it -- my wife and i tried to start a small, web audio/video business (friend at the time worked at a distributor that would drop ship) so we went through the motions, dropped several hundred on a decent secure shopping cart program/domain/ssl cert and due to the anticipation that we wouldn't be doing a whole lot of business right off the bat, signed up with paypal for a business account to accept visa/mc - which not only had no monthly fees (like a traditional merchant account) but an acceptable transaction fee - and integrated with the shopping cart were using (x-cart)

the kicker is, that when you sign up with a business account with them, and get verified and junk, you have to specify what type of business (we did) and about what your avg expected transaction amount was (we also did) and so on.. after about our fourth sale they froze our account and demanded all sorts of documentation -- mind you not as a result of a complaint, as our whopping 4 customers all got their product and even were satisfied with their transactions, but purely because someone at paypal got a wild hair up somewhere and decided that the transactions were suspicious .. ignoring the ups delivery info, shipping info, fact that no one complained, etc, etc..

we were lucky in that we managed to get our money out before they killed our ability to do so, but we were stuck as far as trying to accept payment anymore - and since the verification process links it to your bank account, and there's no way to close your paypal account or 'unverify' it - we couldn't open a new one.. what was meant to be a quick side business ended up sitting in cybermothballs (still, to be honest, because after several months it got to the point where i'd have to do some recoding and just never had time..) -- i have been looking recently into Google Checkout though, which deposits directly into your account (none of the proxy BS like paypal does) but the third kid kinda takes up that stuff formerly known as 'spare' time :D

ahem </rant>

there are some other options out there for ccards if you look, i did find one that had no monthly fees if you weren't actually doing business, and costco has a relatively high rated service they've partnered with (but it's a more traditional merchant account)...

-rob ryan
-http://photography.robryan.com (cause i should at least pretend i've got a reason to lurk :D )

[mkuriger]

damn, I feel sorry for all you guys who have had issues with papal. I've been using ebay and paypal for many thousands of transactions, and never have I ever had an issue. There was one time when I bought an item and it was never shipped - so I simply reversed the charge through my credit card and that fixed that. I got a letter from paypal that explained the "correct" method of handling the situation, but I'd rather paypal eat the cost than me. At any rate, I think one slight issue (not paypal's fault by the way) out of tens of thousands of flawless transactions has kept my opinion of paypal quite high. I too only use paypal for online transactions. Waiting for a check to get to an impatient buyer is never fun.

[Lightstream]

Exactly.
If a private party can't wait for snail mail to deliver a U.S.P.S. money order or similar then I don't need what they are selling. I can wait until they are satisfied that they have the $$$ in hand.

I'd love to sell to you and Mo one of these days if the opportunity does come up, but there's just no way your USPS money orders are valid outside of the US. :)

Many of us are international users and sometimes have to live with the limitations. Recently, I had a scammer who was after my 30D. Yes, I did receive a cleared payment by Paypal, and yes, I had to protect myself. If I did not spot just ONE tiny discrepancy I would have been out of pocket $900.

It's not a perfect solution and I wish they would offer sellers a bit more protection but it's the best option we have.

[Riverlander]

As a buyer using Paypal for stuff from Honk Konk I am very pleased with them I have not had experience with them for purchases from individuals, or as a seller, but I am quite intrigued by this discussion.
As a buyer I am always wary of sending my cash to another individual and risking the "chance" he will send the item. I have paid extra fees and received stuff C.O.D. - a great option.

[Village_Idiot]

As a buyer using Paypal for stuff from Honk Konk I am very pleased with them I have not had experience with them for purchases from individuals, or as a seller, but I am quite intrigued by this discussion.
As a buyer I am always wary of sending my cash to another individual and risking the "chance" he will send the item. I have paid extra fees and received stuff C.O.D. - a great option.

As stated above, buyer's are usually the people that paypal side with. Start selling, and the moment you get a dishonest person on the other end and it can become a nightmare.

www.paypalsucks.com (http://www.paypalsucks.com) has a ton of stories/lawsuits/former employess on the forums with nothing but bad things to say about it.

It was even determined that being a seller and doing multiple transactions with the same person can flag you as fraudulent because that's what their software looks out for, and once your account is locked as fraudulent, they usually seize the money in the account and rarely unlock it, even if the correct information is sent or proof of non fraudulent activities is provided.

One lawsuit happened when they froze an account and seized $2000. The guy that they did that too is a paralegal and they caused him to lose two contracts, I think from another business, because they sent letters to those that sent the money stating that the person sending the money was creating fraudulent activities. The first part in the case is scheduled for Oct. 18th.

A manager also spoke up that said once they freeze your account, it will never be unlocked...at least there's a 90% chance. They unlock a rare few just to show that they do it on occasion. There's also stories of paypal employees stealing loads of money because they have access to a person's information and there's really no way to track them. They don't screen their employees and the only thing they care about is making money and not losing it.

[NickSimcheck]

I hate PayPal, but Google checkout has to improve a little before I switch.

[Lightstream]

Someone PM'ed me about my experience selling my camera. This site gives a very good explanation of what WOULD have happened to me if I did not spot the discrepancies.

http://darkmagess.livejournal.com/243133.html

Notice the payment *DOES* clear.....but is reversed. And you've shipped the item that you're never going to get back.

I later ended up selling the camera to a fellow POTN'er who I've known for a while. We quibble a lot over the 24-70 and 24-105 ;) but I know but he's a great guy and I am glad to have a happy ending to this whole saga. :)

[harleygirl239]

No the buyer was on ebay, good feedback and everything. I'm still trying to get my money back or my lens.
I filed a complaint with the BBB & FTC and there is an Internet Crime Complaint I can file if they don't see things my way. I'm not sure how much more proof they want than a signature showing it delivered. I'm sick of paypal, they send me a form to evaluate my experience with them.......waiting till I cool down a bit to be very objective about it.
I haven't had any trouble here on POTN everyone has been great, I've done some trades even and they've gone great.
I won't use paypal anymore not if they treat people this way. They wanted proof I provided it, I had to call Canada Post to get the copy of the signature faxed but I got it.
I have the man's name & address in Kitchener Ontario in case someone is close. His ebay name is webers711. I don't want to post his actual name, probably not a good idea unless we get a thread for scammers.
Paypal does suck, they back the guilty no matter what. I'm keeping them busy with appeals though.
If they don't agree with me this time I'll get an attorney to send them a letter. It's now the principal of the thing, not only is the buyer a liar & thief so is paypal in my opinion.
Ok enough ranting can ya tell I'm sick of paypal and their holier than though attitude.
Google has some flaws but they stood up and did the right thing when I bought a high dollar item and didn't receive it. I did all the leg work with UPS and the seller was scamming me. their fee's will be less than paypal and I think they'll get their act together. I'm only using them or money orders or cold hard cash is always good.