A new competitor to 300D: Nikon D70 is out of the bag

[Cadenza]

FYI:

The Nikon D70 has been officially announced.
See details at dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond70/

Canon better have something up its sleeves; the
D70 has variable flash output, a very sophisticated
metering system, and a handsome black body!
The $1299 kit comes with with a 18-70 zoom lens.
They also announced a 8MP coolpix model.

Regards, Cadenza

[evilenglishman]

--

[EXA1a]

i dont like the fact that the lowest ISO is 200 though.
why? if the noise was as low as 300D's ISO 100, I could live with ISO 1600.
--Jens--

[Nolz]

will certainly be interesting to read the different reviews and opinions...cant wait to see some sample pics too!

competition can only make it better for the consumer right?... :)

[billh101]

Give it a chance. I am anxiously awaiting some tests and sample images before I make judgement. I'm one of those people who haven't gone DSLR yet and wanted to see what the D70 would be like. I've been shooting Nikon film equipment for years, but like the looks of Canon digital equipment. It will have to match the image quality and low noise of the Canon for me to consider it though. Sure, I'd like to be able to use all my lenses, but I'm not excited about what effective focal lengths they will be on digital anyway, so I won't hesitate to jump ship and go Canon. The D70 looks like it's going to have some great features, so it'll all come down to the image quality. People get so defensive about what brand you prefer. If Nikon digitals were bad, there wouldn't be so many pros shooting with them. I didn't think the cover story pics in the Dec. National Geographic looked bad, did you? The camera is just a tool, you know.

[CoolToolGuy]

It's interesting that in the official press release from the Nikon USA Web site, the Coolpix 8700 and the D70 are announced in the same press release, and it says that the Coolpix will be available in February, but the D70 will be available in 'Spring 2004'. Is it possible that Nikon is still backpedaling trying to get the D70 ready for production? Here's the link:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=141413&TICK=NIKON4&STORY=/www/story/01-28-2004/0002097699&EDATE=Jan+28,+2004

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Andy_T]

The specs sure look impressive ... sometimes nearly too impressive for me.

The press release features 3 fps for 144 photos using JPEG Normal-Large and a Sandisk Ultra II 256 mb card... now that sounds VERY impressive to me!

Also, flash sync is featured at 1/500.

And ... ahh .... the colour and finish :)

But I had just arrived at the conclusion that my old Nikon glass will be rubbish on a DSLR anyway and it's time to change for Canon :roll:

Regards,
Andy

[ShootTechPan]

It will be interesting how Canon answers Nikon's latest volley. :P

It seems like a simple Firmware update by Canon would address many of the Digital Rebel's designed-in, software-crippled features. Now that Nikon is in town, maybe Canon will have to finally play ball with the DRebel.

[sp00g3]

will certainly be interesting to read the different reviews and opinions...cant wait to see some sample pics too!

competition can only make it better for the consumer right?... :)

whats odd though that I don't like is the actual physical setup of the camera.. I'm not sure I like the dial on the left hand side.. This would make it somewhat hard to easily switch "zones"

[ijohnson]

Is it possible for a CCD to make images as noise-free as the rebels? I find that hard to believe, but I find lots of things hard to believe. Wait for sample images. If they look anything like the Sony 8 MP this is a terrible camera.

Gotta like 3fps with a burst of 12. That is not bad at all, better than the 10d.

[Cadwell]

Gotta like 3fps with a burst of 12. That is not bad at all, better than the 10d.

That's in JPEG. Max Raw burst is only 4 frames...

[Tom W]

Is it possible for a CCD to make images as noise-free as the rebels? I find that hard to believe, but I find lots of things hard to believe. Wait for sample images. If they look anything like the Sony 8 MP this is a terrible camera.

Gotta like 3fps with a burst of 12. That is not bad at all, better than the 10d.

This is Nikon - the second best camera manufacturer in the world. They will be almost as good as the 300D's pictures. :D

[ijohnson]

Is it possible for a CCD to make images as noise-free as the rebels? I find that hard to believe, but I find lots of things hard to believe. Wait for sample images. If they look anything like the Sony 8 MP this is a terrible camera.

Gotta like 3fps with a burst of 12. That is not bad at all, better than the 10d.

This is Nikon - the second best camera manufacturer in the world. They will be almost as good as the 300D's pictures. :D

One place Nikon DEFINITELY wins is the color of the camera. Sorry to bring that up.

[PacAce]

Canon better have something up its sleeves; the
D70 has variable flash output, a very sophisticated
metering system, and a handsome black body!
The $1299 kit comes with with a 18-70 zoom lens.
They also announced a 8MP coolpix model.

Regards, Cadenza
Yeah, but it's $300 more than the DRebel? Heck, applying that logic, then juts add another $200 and get a 10D. :)

[roanjohn]

Nikon beats the 300d in terms of features.............

Now it comes down to image quality.

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_page5.shtml

Ro1

[Tom W]

This is Nikon - the second best camera manufacturer in the world. They will be almost as good as the 300D's pictures. :D

One place Nikon DEFINITELY wins is the color of the camera. Sorry to bring that up.

Grampa would disagree:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/FT_Pillow.jpg

[pradeep1]

Don't you all just love competition. I can't wait to see Canon's answer to this challenge. I am sure the answer will make all of us who bought the 300D gripe even more!

[Tom W]

Nikon beats the 300d in terms of features.............

Now it comes down to image quality.

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_page5.shtml

Ro1

I don't have the 300D/digiReb, but I think that chart is missing a few features. Doesn't the DigiReb have slow-sync flash in the Av and Tv modes?

I did notice that the Nikon AF controls and metering (spot!!!) systems have an advantage.

It will be interesting how Canon answers Nikon's latest volley. :P

[drisley]

I notice that the D70 includes Flash Compensation.
Maybe Canon will be forced to include that now for the DRebel with a firmware update! Wishful thinking I know, but hey!

I find it funny that the D70 includes Flash Compensation, but NO high-speed sync for the flash.

[ryleung]

It is interesting that no one has mentioned anything about the available lens yet. Featurewise, the D70 certainly seems to edge out the 300D by just a hair (although Canon can easily remedy some of the short comings with a firmware upgrade. Yo Canon, are you listening? :P ) Because of the similarities between the two bodies, I think the lens could be a pretty important factor in deciding which brand someone would go ahead with.

With the Nikon F-Mount, D70 users would be able to choose from at least 4 outrageously versatile Nikkor DX lens:

# AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 lens: 76°– 22°50' angle-of-view
# AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED: 79°– 28°50' angle-of-view
# AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-ED: 99°– 61° angle-of-view
# AF DX Fisheye-Nikkor 10.5mm f/2.8G ED: 180º angle-of-view

At the moment, the few lens that Canon has at wide range all seem to fall behind the Nikkor stuff. The EF-S lens is only 18 - 55mm, and is not usable on cameras other than the 300D anyway. The 16 - 35mm f/2.8 L lens is nice, but still falls short of the range of the Nikkor 17 - 55mm lens by a bit. After that, our Canon lens are just NOT competitive against the Nikkor ultra, ultra wide 12 - 24mm, and the 10.5mm fisheye.

If I didn't already have a decent collection of Canon equipment, the choice at this particular moment would be sooooooo obvious.

-Rick

[CyberDyneSystems]

But none are as good as the 17-40mm f/4 L :)

Still 18-70mm Would be a mighty handy lemns on a 1.5/1.6 crop factor! :)

[ijohnson]

At the moment, the few lens that Canon has at wide range all seem to fall behind the Nikkor stuff. The EF-S lens is only 18 - 55mm, and is not usable on cameras other than the 300D anyway. The 16 - 35mm f/2.8 L lens is nice, but still falls short of the range of the Nikkor 17 - 55mm lens by a bit. After that, our Canon lens are just NOT competitive against the Nikkor ultra, ultra wide 12 - 24mm, and the 10.5mm fisheye.

If I didn't already have a decent collection of Canon equipment, the choice at this particular moment would be sooooooo obvious.

-Rick

Rick, if anyone heard what you just said, there could be a WWIII starting in about 10 minutes. I hope that you don't have the notify box checked.

[Man-Fai Wong]

As a G3 owner looking to go DSLR w/ no prior investment in lenses, I'll chime in w/ some corrections from what I've found so far.

RE: noise performance issue of Nikon vs Canon, that's mostly a myth when it comes to DSLRs. Apparently, if you know how to use the cameras, the results are very comparable and not noticeably different. This opinion comes for most dpreview forum posters who've actually tried both 10D and D100 extensively. Also, it's backed up by Phil Askey's own test results in the 300D review although I don't believe Phil ever commented on it definitively:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page13.asp

Yes, it does look like the 10D is better than D100 at ISO200, but it's probably not noticeable in practice as suggested by many. Meanwhile, the D100's ISO3200 performance is substantially better than the 10D's -- and it's arguable that this is more important for some than the ISO200 diff.

However, apparently, the D70 will be using a new version of the CCD sensor w/ new processing chip (while also being 2 whole years newer in a rapidly advancing field), so there's some likelihood that even that tiny gap at ISO200 will be closed.

RE: the slow flash sync comparison w/ 300D, not sure why that page missed it. However, the 300D does force front curtain, which D70 will not -- maybe that's why they neglected it(?). To me, that can be significant. I always use rear curtain on my G3. Of course, there's also the FEC issue.

RE: high speed flash sync, I'm not sure, but that might just be something that doesn't get mentioned in the short list of specs. Offhand, I don't remember Canon ever mentioning it in their camera specs either -- it gets mentioned in their external flash specs (and maybe in more detailed specs or side notes, but not short list). That might be because high speed sync only works w/ external flash. Also, the D70 will be using the new i-TTL flash system, instead of the old D-TTL that D100 uses. Seems like i-TTL is a lot more like Canon's E-TTL whereas the old D-TTL seems inferior. A quick check of the D2H's i-TTL support ( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond2h/page3.asp ) suggests that high speed sync will come from the external flash, not the camera itself, which seems just like Canon's E-TTL system.

_Man_

[ryleung]

Rick, if anyone heard what you just said, there could be a WWIII starting in about 10 minutes. I hope that you don't have the notify box checked.

Opps... guess it's too late now to unscribe from the thread, eh? Does anyone know where I can get myself a flame suit? :P

-Rick

[Man-Fai Wong]

It's interesting that in the official press release from the Nikon USA Web site, the Coolpix 8700 and the D70 are announced in the same press release, and it says that the Coolpix will be available in February, but the D70 will be available in 'Spring 2004'. Is it possible that Nikon is still backpedaling trying to get the D70 ready for production?

Probably not. The "spring 2004" date is mentioned in the US PR, but the European one actually quotes "March 2004". Anyway, the previous PR about the D70 (back in December) was also for "spring 2004", so I don't see any backpedaling there.

_Man_

[ijohnson]

All that stuff you said

_Man_

Very interesting information. I had only seen the short review. Interesting that Nikon would have decent iso 3200 performance. I agree that it would be more important to me, at least in some scenarios. I just figured it went downhill from 200, most of the pictures looked like it. I am just scared of ccd's because of my G2 but I know that there is much debate on the matter.

Thanks for the link.