D70 the 300D Killer?

[pradeep1]

Is Nikon's D70 equivalent to a 10D but at a 300D price?

Hot off the presses:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond70/

[CyberDyneSystems]

It has a few superior specs,. but essentially they are the same class.

The Drebel remains more affordable.

And as allwyas,. Nikon will release (remember it ISN'T released YET) it's D70 many months after the DRebel has time to establish itself.

I think the two Cameras are as close as the D60 Vs. D100 Vs. 10D are...

Really,. you'd be kind of nuts to give up any established collection of lenses to switch from one to the other.

So the competition with the low priced models is "who gets the first time SLR buyer" ?

Well,. with the DRebels lead time,. it certainly has an advvantage there.

By Chritmas 2004... who knows?

[Chris1le]

Well, from what I read in the review it looks like a DRebel killer. As someone who is currently using a Canon G3 and wanting to step up to a DSLR I will definately have to give it a look. I'm waiting until Canon releases its linup for this year. Hopefully they will have something to compete with the D70. I want to go with Canon. But having no lenses and basically starting from scratch I'm going to have to go with whoever offers the best bang for the buck. :?

[pradeep1]

CDS, I had not planned on getting it, since I am pretty much invested in the Canon system.

But for people looking for their first dSLR, this might be a problem for Canon. Of course, Canon is not to sit still, so we'll be awaiting their response to this.

[Man-Fai Wong]

Well, this might make me unwelcome around here, but as a G3 owner looking to go DSLR, the D70 sure does look like it'll rival even the 10D, except for build quality perhaps. I would disagree that it's merely in same class as D-Rebel. If look at the Nikon SLR forum at dpreview, you'll find that even most existing Nikon DSLR owners feel that the D70 is better than the D100 (on paper). Of course, some of that is coming from the flash system upgrade (from D-TTL to i-TTL), which I guess was worse than Canon's E-TTL.

On paper, the D70 does look like it can beat the 10D by a very small margin and would certainly be comfy being compared as same class. Of course, that's just on paper for now, and Canon's not sitting still.

Actually, this makes me wonder if Canon won't cut the price on the 10D to be closer to the D70 and drop the D-Rebel lower also. Whatever the case, things should look quite interesting when I buy come spring.

_Man_

[nosquare2003]

Well, this might make me unwelcome around here, but as a G3 owner looking to go DSLR, the D70 sure does look like it'll rival even the 10D, except for build quality perhaps. I would disagree that it's merely in same class as D-Rebel. If look at the Nikon SLR forum at dpreview, you'll find that even most existing Nikon DSLR owners feel that the D70 is better than the D100 (on paper). Of course, some of that is coming from the flash system upgrade (from D-TTL to i-TTL), which I guess was worse than Canon's E-TTL.

On paper, the D70 does look like it can beat the 10D by a very small margin and would certainly be comfy being compared as same class. Of course, that's just on paper for now, and Canon's not sitting still.

Actually, this makes me wonder if Canon won't cut the price on the 10D to be closer to the D70 and drop the D-Rebel lower also. Whatever the case, things should look quite interesting when I buy come spring.

_Man_

I hope so. I want to see a lower priced DSLR with better features.

[roanjohn]

Oh yes!!! This will be very interesting..........

In terms of lenses, Canon has a wider range of selection (I think).

I am a Canonite though........The fact that I have a G3 w/ the same battery and external flash as the 10D/DRebel makes that direction more logical.

I guess we'll have to see when the reviews starts rolling in!!!

I'm hoping that the 10D will drop to about 1,200 USD........or even lower!!!

Finally glad to see some competition in the lower DSLR range, as this is always a plus to consumers.

Ro1

[kafene]

Oh yes!!! This will be very interesting..........

In terms of lenses, Canon has a wider range of selection (I think).

I am a Canonite though........The fact that I have a G3 w/ the same battery and external flash as the 10D/DRebel makes that direction more logical.

I guess we'll have to see when the reviews starts rolling in!!!

I'm hoping that the 10D will drop to about 1,200 USD........or even lower!!!

Finally glad to see some competition in the lower DSLR range, as this is always a plus to consumers.

Ro1

I too am a "Canonite", as is my entire family. I don't just look at the body itself, but I overheard a conversation at Calumet where one person was telling the other about the size of Canon compared to Nikon. He said that Canon was so large, it pretty much overshadows Nikon's R&D. If Nikon has something around the corner, you must KNOW that Canon's will certainly have a reply.

It's almost like comparing BMW's to Benz's. I happen to be a fan of Canon, but I certainly wouldn't argue w/ Nikon's quality.

I think the problem lies more in those who think a better camera will actually make them better photographers, just like a fancy typewriter makes a better writer :wink:

kafene.

[Man-Fai Wong]

Oh yes!!! This will be very interesting..........

In terms of lenses, Canon has a wider range of selection (I think).

That's untrue for the near future until/unless Canon announces more lenses at the wide end. It's debatable who has the best quality lenses at a given range as well as exact pricing on such, but Canon itself does not offer much at the wide end so far. That combined w/ the slightly higher crop factor of the 300D/10D is something to remember when comparing Canon vs Nikon at the entry level.

I am a Canonite though........The fact that I have a G3 w/ the same battery and external flash as the 10D/DRebel makes that direction more logical.

I'm in the same boat, but those things are too minor to sway me if the D70 is for real. Well, I guess a serious price drop from Canon could change that. For external flash, I could always sell off the 420ex on eBay although it's unclear how much the new Nikon SB600 flash will cost. FYI, that flash might turn out to be better than 420ex too since it seems to offer manual controls.

I guess we'll have to see when the reviews starts rolling in!!!

Yep. Will have to see.

Finally glad to see some competition in the lower DSLR range, as this is always a plus to consumers.

Verily so.

_Man_

[Man-Fai Wong]

I don't just look at the body itself, but I overheard a conversation at Calumet where one person was telling the other about the size of Canon compared to Nikon. He said that Canon was so large, it pretty much overshadows Nikon's R&D. If Nikon has something around the corner, you must KNOW that Canon's will certainly have a reply.

Well, hard to compare since Canon competes in more markets than Nikon. Nikon doesn't do video nor printing for instance. Still, I don't doubt Canon's bigger (and probably a step ahead in general) given how it's been dominating across the board so far. There were rumors that Nikon might give up on the low end (ie. non-DSLR compacts), and if so, that's probably a good thing for DSLR users since Nikon could then focus more on their DSLR tech.

I think the problem lies more in those who think a better camera will actually make them better photographers, just like a fancy typewriter makes a better writer :wink:

Heh heh, well, I won't argue there. :D

_Man_

[PaulB]

Has the D70 got the magnesium shell/stainless frame construction of the 10D?
If it is polycarbonate construction then the nearest in the Canon range is the 300D - and I believe that the D70 is more expensive that the 300D ('standard' zoom alone is 3 times the price) - so where does the D70 compete directly with either the 10D or the 300D?

Canon have their vision of what the range/feature set is at a particular price and Nikon have their own - simple really. For Nikon fans there are Nikons and for Canon fans Canons; if you work as a photographer and are given the equipment you use what is provided, if you are a Pro. and buy your own and have a Canon system then you don't lightly make the change on the basis of one body or lens coming onto the market.
It is only amateurs who have the luxary of trading across systems at a whim.

[Man-Fai Wong]

Paul,

Nobody is suggesting that people w/ a lot already invested in Canon lenses and/or the 10D should jump ship. It would be rather silly to do that w/ very few exceptions.

And I already pointed out that the D70 probably has weaker build quality although plastic is much stronger than it used to be. Unless you intend to throw your camera around a lot, there may be essentially no difference there at all -- and even if you do (for whatever reason), there's no guarantee that even the 10D will survive. Well, I'd agree that the 10D's metal body will look more impressive even if it's not really significantly stronger.

As for competing w/ 300D, well, I'd agree there's no competition there since the D70 kills the 300D period (on paper anyway). More expensive? Unless Canon slashes prices or re-enable a bunch of features, the roughly 10-15% price diff shouldn't stop any potential buyer from considering the D70, instead of 300D. It may still lead some to choose the 300D for the small savings, but it should not preclude the D70 from consideration. And then, some may stick w/ Canon because of existing lenses from film days (or sharing w/ an existing 10D perhaps).

Of course, again, we are only talking about the D70 on paper. The real thing come spring might just fall short of that.

_Man_

[scottbergerphoto]

As an owner of Nikon and Canon equipment (glass and bodies), I'll just say this. Don't get lost in specs. Canon gives me beautiful color. My G2 and 10D give me sharp pictures with astounding color. I bought a Nikon D100 and returned it. Take a look at www.Nikonians.org and read about the headaches people have had getting accurate color with their D100's.
Scott

[roanjohn]

AAAYyyyyy!!!

This is a very exciting time for people thinking of upgrading to a DSLR for the first time. I think Nikon just set the bar higher in terms of features/price. This brings me back to the days of deciding if I should go for Mac or Windows..........Its almost like choosing a religion (okay not quite).........But it is a big decision I think, almost like getting married to a company for better or worst.

I am just hoping that Canon answers to this challenge with the upcoming PMA. For the moment, that D70 just replaced all my itching for the 300D. People are saying that this camera almost is on par and in some regards better than the current D100 (Nikons answer to the 10D). The kit lens is also said to be a much better quality than that compared to the one from the Rebel. All in all, this camera is the BOMB!!!

Now here 2 things that will take me back to Canon's court.

1. If they lower the price of the 10D (body) matching that of the D70.
2. If they introduce a new DSLR in the same range/features/price of the D70 this Febuary.

Otherwise, I'll be a Nikonian for shur......... :roll:

I think you really can't go wrong though, as both Nikon and Canon are reputable companies in the industry. And you can't really tell the difference between the two.........or can you??

Ro1

[Man-Fai Wong]

As an owner of Nikon and Canon equipment (glass and bodies), I'll just say this. Don't get lost in specs. Canon gives me beautiful color. My G2 and 10D give me sharp pictures with astounding color. I bought a Nikon D100 and returned it. Take a look at www.Nikonians.org and read about the headaches people have had getting accurate color with their D100's.
Scott

Scott,

I have heard a little about this over in DPReview's Nikon forum, but have seen very few who actually find any real issues w/ "accurate" color on D100. Personally, I think there's no such thing as truly accurate color -- it depends on who's looking and what one feels is acceptably accurate. I took a quick look at Nikonians.org's D100 forum looking for color issues from the last few weeks, and found none except the usual WB issue that's common to all digicams -- at least all at the 10D/D100 range and below. Can you point to a specific issue w/ a specific link (or the right key words to search)?

OTOH, I have heard of a 10D focusing issue in very low light situations and/or when opening lens aperture to the max. And actually, this concerns me more than a very slight color inaccuracy. Of course, much like the color issue you mentioned, this focusing issue might not be quite so real anyway. Certainly, I don't hear about it over here. And that's why I haven't actually brought it up.

_Man_

[drisley]

I think the important thing right now is that those of us with the 300D can take great shots NOW.
Check out these great 300D galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/shecodes/drebelpeople

There are of course, no D70 galleries to speak of, right?!

Speaking of lenses, the Canon 50mm F1.8 II is a gem that is affordable for anyone with a dslr. Does Nikon have anything similar?

As far as I'm concerned, the D70 is NO way a Rebel killer.
Both probably take similar quality pictures. The D70 has a few more features in some areas, the Rebel has a few more in others. The D70 costs quite a bit more. It's a matter of preference.

I can say with all honesty that if both were sitting on a table side by side and I could choose the Rebel, or the D70 for a couple hundred dollars more, I would choose the Rebel every time.
(Actually, I would still choose the Rebel if theywere the same price. I usually have no brand loyalty at all, but when it comes to cameras, I really have a strong preference for Canon).

[McShred]

I think the problem lies more in those who think a better camera will actually make them better photographers, just like a fancy typewriter makes a better writer


I can also agree with this statement. I sucked with my G3 and I suck with my 300d. I think I will buy the new 1D just to prove this statement. JK

I think it is all in the eye and knowing you equipment.

[kafene]

I think the problem lies more in those who think a better camera will actually make them better photographers, just like a fancy typewriter makes a better writer


I can also agree with this statement. I sucked with my G3 and I suck with my 300d. I think I will buy the new 1D just to prove this statement. JK

I think it is all in the eye and knowing you equipment.

Some of the pics I see from the D300 make my pictures taken from a 10D look STUPID :lol:

kafene.

[Man-Fai Wong]

I think the important thing right now is that those of us with the 300D can take great shots NOW.

Well, many of us shoppers are not exactly w/out decent compact digicams to use right now while we wait a couple months. No, they don't match the 300D in most areas, but cams like the G3 are not exactly duds now as you must know as a former owner.

There are of course, no D70 galleries to speak of, right?!

Take it easy. Nobody's claiming the D70 is available right now. And everyone's fully aware that we're only talking about the D70 on paper.

Speaking of lenses, the Canon 50mm F1.8 II is a gem that is affordable for anyone with a dslr. Does Nikon have anything similar?

In fact, yes, there is a Nikkor 50mm f1.8 that's equally acclaimed and roughly the same price.

I'll be the first to admit that Canon has certain advantages in terms of lenses, eg. 28-135IS and 70-200L f/4, but so does Nikon at the wider end.

As far as I'm concerned, the D70 is NO way a Rebel killer.
Both probably take similar quality pictures. The D70 has a few more features in some areas, the Rebel has a few more in others. The D70 costs quite a bit more. It's a matter of preference.

Well, it might be a bit overstated to call D70 a 300D killer. Certainly, I wouldn't expect it to yield clearly better PQ, except maybe at ISO1600 and above. But neither does the 10D vs 300D. With DSLRs, most of the differences revolve around features anyway, not so much PQ unless you make a huge jump that involves larger sensor size (combined w/ higher res) ala 1D MkII/1Ds.

I can say with all honesty that if both were sitting on a table side by side and I could choose the Rebel, or the D70 for a couple hundred dollars more, I would choose the Rebel every time.
(Actually, I would still choose the Rebel if theywere the same price. I usually have no brand loyalty at all, but when it comes to cameras, I really have a strong preference for Canon).

Personally, I think I might be perfectly happy w/ the 300D too if it didn't miss quite so many features and have the flash underexposure issue (and came in black :D). But that's just not the case although there are workarounds for the flash issue (even if they're a bit klugy). It's not like I'm just some troll trying to bash Canon -- I do own the G3 + various Canon accessories (and love the kit as far as compacts go). Like most everyone else, I just want the best bang for my $$$ -- and of course, part of that also revolves around ergonomics and suitability for photographic task/style too. Who knows? When the D70 finally arrives for sale (in a couple months?), maybe I'll find the ergo and/or PQ biases insufferable and then decide to stick w/ Canon afterall -- I somehow doubt that, but one can never be too sure.

_Man_

[drisley]

I would say it's WAY more than a "bit overstated" to call the D70 a Rebel killer.
And like I said, you can buy the Rebel NOW, and have been able to for quite a while. I would only hope the D70 would have a few more features considering that it's coming out so far behind the Rebel.
IF the D70 cost less than the Rebel, even then it wouldnt be a Rebel killer, just competition.
However, you do have to pay quite a bit more to get those (few) extra features of the D70 (at the expense of others).
Therefore, a Rebel killer it definately is not.

By the time the D70 is actually available, there will new cameras on the horizon being called the D70 killers.
In the mean time I will be happily clicking away with my Rebel while people wait months for a camera that will be slightly better at best (and paying alot more than what the Rebel will cost by then).

I remember when everyone was contemplating the new Sony 828 being almost a 10d killer (even though it's not an slr). Well, we all know better now. I have a feeling the same will be true of the D70.

[roanjohn]

I'm still waiting for what Canon has up its sleeves this coming Febuary.

But as for now, the D70 is looking mighty good. Definitely a huge leap forward compared to the 300D (feature wise).

Somebody said that the kit lens with the D70 is on par with a Canon L. How true is this statement??

Ro1

[PaulB]

Has anyone even seen a D70 kit lens yet, nevermind tested one?

[drisley]

I'm still waiting for what Canon has up its sleeves this coming Febuary.

But as for now, the D70 is looking mighty good. Definitely a huge leap forward compared to the 300D (feature wise).

Somebody said that the kit lens with the D70 is on par with a Canon L. How true is this statement??

Ro1

Once again, I disagree. It MIGHT be a step ahead in some features (and a 1/2 step behind in others). Definately not a HUGE leap.

As far as the black vs silver goes, I think black looks better when it is an alloy body. But when it's black and plastic, I actually think it looks cheaper. I personally think the Rebel looks better than the D70 (from pics I've seen). I was one that thought the G5 looked really cheap compared to the G3 because it was black plastic. However, this point is really not a big one.

[Man-Fai Wong]

Once again, I disagree. It MIGHT be a step ahead in some features (and a 1/2 step behind in others). Definately not a HUGE leap.

You keep harping on this line w/out giving specifics -- and the one specific you gave turned out wrong (about availability of 50mm 1.8 lens). Heck, even I offered more specifics in favor of D-Rebel than you did. So in what exact meaningful ways is the D-Rebel ahead of the D70 other than the $100 lower price? Yes, I'm aware the D-Rebel offers ISO100, but what else? Remember we are talking about D70 on paper (and very reasonably assuming it should improve over D100's 2-year-old performance, even if only slightly), so its ISO200 performance may not be any worse than D-Rebel's ISO100. Meanwhile, I think I'd rather have substantially better ISO1600 (and above) performance since the noise is more than just noticeable up there.

As for the cheap D-Rebel kit lens, the budget conscious could still turn to a Sigma lens for that range, but Canon does not offer something comparable to the new 18-70 DX from Nikon.

I remember when everyone was contemplating the new Sony 828 being almost a 10d killer (even though it's not an slr). Well, we all know better now. I have a feeling the same will be true of the D70.

Please. Talk about overstating your case. Anyone who follows the technology (and is not a Sony fanboy) would've been very skeptical of the Sony F828's performance, let alone compared to a 10D. Why would anyone use this as a premise to argue for the D-Rebel, instead of actually offering specifics like Canon having the 28-135IS lens or ISO100?

There's absolutely no reason to think the D70 will be anything like the Sony F828. First, the D70 is a DSLR. Second, we're talking Nikon, not Sony. You're comparing apples to oranges there. You made a little more sense when you were being extremely vague. If the D70 does end up falling that far short, well, Nikon should just give up trying already. Nikon is playing catch-up, but it's not doing it essentially from scratch like Sony.

Anyway, it just sounds like I'm wasting my time running my head into a brick wall of nothing but brand loyalty now, so I'll stop until there's a real, productive discussion to follow-up.

_Man_

[drisley]

Hmmm for one the D70 doesn't offer hi speed sync flash.
That's pretty important.
It also offers inferior flash metering.

As far as the 828 goes, I saw MANY people in these forums wondering if the 828 would be a better camera than the 300D or 10D. hehe.

By the time the D70 finally arrives here in Canada, I expect it to cost atleast $300 more than the Digital Rebel (that is what a couple camera shops here are expecting).

Personally, I am a lot more concerned about the quality of zoom lenses than wide angle lenses. I couldnt care less about the wide angle Nikkor lenses.

But like I said before, I would choose the 300D over the D70.
If I was going to spend that much money, I would just spend the little extra and get the 10D.


By the time the D70 actually reaches the stores, we will probably be reading the exact same articles about a new Canon (or other brand) DSLR that is a D70 killer.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I think it's frapping hilarious that Nikon "unveils" the D70 putting a shot across Canon's bow by threatening the 300D rebel market which Canon currently monopolizes...


...and in return Canon volleys back with the 1D MkII that sets Nikon's D2H 2 years behind the Curve AGAIN! (remember,. it took Nikon well ove two years to come up with a Camera to rival the 1D which it only just barely does with the D2H)

lol,.. who's laughing now tough guy? Who's Laughing NOW!!!?? :lol: :shock:

//sorry,. I get carried away :roll:

[drisley]

CyberDyne,

Yeah, that is funny. Also, it's great for consumers!

[Man-Fai Wong]

Hmmm for one the D70 doesn't offer hi speed sync flash.

First, you don't really know that. I have yet to see camera specs clearly point to high speed sync support even on Canon's. Typically, that gets mentioned in the external flash spec itself or as a side note in a much more complete set of specs than is given so far for the D70.

And if you have any idea how Canon's high speed sync flash works, you'll understand why that might be so.

That's pretty important.

Actually, it's not quite as important as you think, especially since the D70 actually supports 1/500sec sync w/out going into high speed mode. How often have you actually taken shots that actually required over 1/500sec sync fill flash (after stopping down the aperture some) and actually got good results w/ the reduced power flash due to high speed sync mode? That's right. You won't get nearly the same power in high speed sync mode.

But again, it's not clear that the D70 will be missing high speed sync mode anyway since that's the exact kind of spec that typically gets left out of the kind of spec lists we're seeing so far.

It also offers inferior flash metering.

Who told you the new i-TTL is inferior to E-TTL?? The old D-TTL is probably inferior, but i-TTL? FYI, i-TTL is newly released along w/ the D2H just a few months ago. And anyway, the 300D's flash system is worse than the G3's.

By the time the D70 finally arrives here in Canada, I expect it to cost atleast $300 more than the Digital Rebel (that is what a couple camera shops here are expecting).

Well, if it's indeed $300 more (ie. ~$225US), then that does make more difference, especially for us budget conscious folks.

Still, I would like to see Canon re-enable a few features on the 300D unless I can get one w/ kit lens for ~$700US. :D I don't want to have to upgrade the body for a long time and don't want to bump into issues w/ certain missing features too soon. The 10D (at its current price) is just too much higher than D70 ($500US diff) w/out being clearly better.

And yes, as I dig into all the info, I do find that the Nikon system as a whole probably suits me better than Canon, eg. ergo, crop factor, software, etc. Might not be the same case for some other people (including yourself of course).

Anyway, as has been pointed out, competition is always good for the consumers whether you choose one brand/system or the other...

_Man_

[Chris1le]

However, you do have to pay quite a bit more to get those (few) extra features of the D70 (at the expense of others).

As one who is considering buying a 10D to get those "few extra features" over a DRebel I think that Nikon has hit the sweet spot. $1299 for body and lens. vs $999 for DRebel and $1499 for 10D body only. Now if Canon has something to fill this spot or possibly lowers the price of the 10D until they come up with something else. I will, and want to go with Canon. If not I'll have to give the Nikon a serious look.

[kafene]

I think it's frapping hilarious that Nikon "unveils" the D70 putting a shot across Canon's bow by threatening the 300D rebel market which Canon currently monopolizes...


...and in return Canon volleys back with the 1D MkII that sets Nikon's D2H 2 years behind the Curve AGAIN! (remember,. it took Nikon well ove two years to come up with a Camera to rival the 1D which it only just barely does with the D2H)

lol,.. who's laughing now tough guy? Who's Laughing NOW!!!?? :lol: :shock:

//sorry,. I get carried away :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

kafene.

[nosquare2003]

In fact, I haven't spent any time to read the specifications of D70. I want a review and sample pictures. "8M pixel" Sony 828 is quite meaningless. I believe Nikon will perform better, but only actual sample pictures and review can show.

I really hope that D70 is a much better camera. But for those who want to start with Nikon, you have to consider the body upgrade too. In these past few years, Canon reacted much faster than Nikon. As CDS has pointed the 1D (1D MKII case), Nikon is far too slow to react. If the price continues to go down, it's hard to resist the temptation of body upgrade. In this regards, Canon is a better choice.

[roanjohn]

I don't know folks..........I love Canon and all but if they don't do something soon, Nikon might just have the first DSLR camera for me...........

This is how I put everything in perspective:

Nikonians who recently purchased the D100 are upset because the D70 surpasses the D100 in terms of feature set and price.

D100 is more or less equal to the Canon 10D, which is a way better camera compared to the 300D.

If this is correct, then I can only say that the D70 is a tad better than D100/10D and way better than the 300D.

And for 1299 USD, its almost as if I am purchasing a 10D with a bangin' lens along with it (for 200 USD less!!!)

Of course everything here is based on Nikon's own claims and promises.......But when the reviews start rolling and if everything Nikon promised delivers............then adios Canon and hola Nikon!!! :roll:

Ro1

[BrettD]

You keep harping on this line w/out giving specifics -- and the one specific you gave turned out wrong (about availability of 50mm 1.8 lens). Heck, even I offered more specifics in favor of D-Rebel than you did. So in what exact meaningful ways is the D-Rebel ahead of the D70 other than the $100 lower price? Yes, I'm aware the D-Rebel offers ISO100, but what else? Remember we are talking about D70 on paper (and very reasonably assuming it should improve over D100's 2-year-old performance, even if only slightly), so its ISO200 performance may not be any worse than D-Rebel's ISO100. Meanwhile, I think I'd rather have substantially better ISO1600 (and above) performance since the noise is more than just noticeable up there.

The other one no one else seems to talk about is the CCD sensor.

I personally see the lack of on the fly noise reduction a big issue. ie: when out at night, I like to try all shutter speeds from 4 secs to 30 secs at different apetures, but it would literally take double the time with a CCD based camera. (or shooting fireworks, I'd hate to miss a shot because the camera is taking a 20 second dark frame)

Brett D

[surfmonkey89]

As a 'neutral' observer, I'd say this comparison shows that the D70 is a Rebel killer, not a 10D killer.

http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_page5.shtml

[Andy_T]

The report you mention suggests to me (on paper) that it is also a D100 killer at the price point suggested ... and it looks like it is somehow on par - featurewise with the 10D.

Regards,
Andy

[photography By Evangelos]

I do not think the new Nikon D70 will be a Digital Rebel Killer at all. The price difference is quite a bet different like in the amount of $300 . The Nikon D70 has yet to prove the cameras performance. So we will have to wait and see what reviews the camera gets. I know the folks at Nikon must be scratching there heads over the new canon 1D Mark II with more Pixels and the fact it out performs the new Nikon D2H by leaps and bounds. Nikon makes a good camera but they are over priced just look at the D100 VS the 10D. Nikon was forced to lower the price to compete with the canon 10D. Now the Digital rebel at $999.00 with lens and the Nikon D70 at $1,299 and even the D2H at $3,199.00 VS the Canon 1D Mark II at $4,500 with more Pixels and a new II series DIGIC chip will surely out perform the Nikon and that is a Fact. Canon is way far ahead of the pack and every one is trying to play catch up. Canon is the clear leader. Also a fun fact the Film body Rebel is the best selling camera worldwide. Now I can expect that the Digital rebel will soon follow in the film body’s footsteps. Just my thoughts on this topic.

[Andy_T]

What I like a lot about the D70 is that it's a viable competitor to the D70 and arguably the 10D (as the 300D is a competitor to the 10D for people not needing all the functions, as well)

As to my limited knowledge, in film cameras, neither Canon nor Nikon managed to get a stranglehold or near-monopoly on the SLR market.

In the DSLR market, so far there was little viable competition to Canon's offerings - and also not much incentive for them to get down prices on, say, the 10D :lol: .

I, for one, prefer having a dilemma (if the D70 really turns out to be as good as its paper form) which camera to choose, the 10D,300D or maybe even D70 as an entry-level DSLR.

So far, I was quite convinced (and still am) that I will go for one of the Canon options, not just because they are the clear leader in DSLR bodies, but more important because they have the more attractive glass roundup.

However, with my ole' 601 and some (mediocre, I admit) AF Nikkor lenses still being around, the decision might not be *that* clear and at least deserve some consideration. Especially as the 12-24 Nikkor seems to be a decent lens and the Sigma 12-24 doesn't seem to be an alternative.

Regards,
Andy

[roanjohn]

http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/features/popup/hi_res_img.asp?testbild=Nikon+Digitalkamera+system +D70+hus&hires=503130_1

http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/features/popup/hi_res_img.asp?testbild=Nikon+Digitalkamera+system +D70+hus&hires=503130_2

http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/features/popup/hi_res_img.asp?testbild=Nikon+Digitalkamera+system +D70+hus&hires=503130_3

These don't look good!!! I think all were shot at ISO 400...... Noisy!!!!

Canon might still have the advantage..

Ro1

[Man-Fai Wong]

The other one no one else seems to talk about is the CCD sensor.

I personally see the lack of on the fly noise reduction a big issue. ie: when out at night, I like to try all shutter speeds from 4 secs to 30 secs at different apetures, but it would literally take double the time with a CCD based camera. (or shooting fireworks, I'd hate to miss a shot because the camera is taking a 20 second dark frame)

Brett D

Brett, you have a great point there. That's certainly one thing about CCD sensors that Nikon hasn't addressed yet in any of their offerings. They addressed it for the D2H, but that uses their new LB-CAST sensor, not CCD. For people who frequently do that kind of shooting, this can be important. And admittedly, that's one thing I overlook because I don't do that kind of shooting. For me, I can accept the dark frame subtraction method, but again, that's only because I don't personally need better.

And honestly, I seriously doubt the D70 will address this either. Seems like it's one clear advantage of CMOS-based sensors.

Also, while I have said that the D70's specs suggest it can challenge the 10D overall, I do also doubt it'll be as clean at ISO200 as 10D at ISO100. I can understand how pro studio-type photography, where everything is very controlled and the results are more often enlarged to the max and requires that polished look w/ minor flaws being more visible, will definitely still favor the 10D even as it has been doing over the D100.

Given the specs, I suspect the D70 will still be more along the lines of Nikon's PJ-ish flavor and won't yield the same polished results as Canon.

And at the end of the day, again, competition is good for all us whether you end up going Canon or Nikon.

_Man_

[Man-Fai Wong]

These don't look good!!! I think all were shot at ISO 400...... Noisy!!!!

Canon might still have the advantage..

You're right. They look awful, but I wouldn't give any credence to them. I saw the thread over in DPReview's Nikon forum w/ EXIF data, and these were shot w/ pretty lame settings besides the camera having some sort of pre-production firmware (v0.65) and being uncalibrated. Seems all were shot in shutter priority at 1/13sec(!) and letting the aperture fall wherever it may, ie. f7.1, f3.5, f22.

Still, I'd hope the noise performance will be better in final production release.

_Man_

[Tom W]

These don't look good!!! I think all were shot at ISO 400...... Noisy!!!!

Canon might still have the advantage..

You're right. They look awful, but I wouldn't give any credence to them. I saw the thread over in DPReview's Nikon forum w/ EXIF data, and these were shot w/ pretty lame settings besides the camera having some sort of pre-production firmware (v0.65) and being uncalibrated. Seems all were shot in shutter priority at 1/13sec(!) and letting the aperture fall wherever it may, ie. f7.1, f3.5, f22.

Still, I'd hope the noise performance will be better in final production release.

_Man_

I'm positive that the production version will be better. In fact, I think that the sample camera they had was much better than those pictures let on. I can shoot cleaner pictures with my S-400 digicam. Nikon is a good camera company - they're not going to let loose a camera that takes worse pictures than a 2 mpix H-P.

Realistically, when its all out in the open, the D-70 will be very competitive with the present digiReb and the present 10D and is priced accordingly. Now lets see how Canon responds. I predict that they will respond favorably, given the technological acheivements that they just uncovered in the 1D Mk II.

[roanjohn]

Olympus and Pentax just lowered the price of thier SLR digicams.......$300 price cut. (Could it be due to the D70??? - most likely).

Hopefully other companies will follow this trend........:-)

But still..........a $300 price cut to the 10D is not enough to compete with the D70....... And a price cut to the 10D would have to mean a price cut to the Rebel.

I guess we'll just have to sit and watch the prices go down!!!

How fun!!!

Ro1

[Man-Fai Wong]

But still..........a $300 price cut to the 10D is not enough to compete with the D70....... And a price cut to the 10D would have to mean a price cut to the Rebel.

Well, if Canon cuts the 10D by $300, it'll do just fine me thinks (at street price of $1150-1200). There still are good reasons to pay more for 10D than D70, especially if you want to do pro studio-type work and either start out w/ 10D or use 10D as backup. I doubt the D70 can touch 10D noise performance at ISO100 even if the D70 improves upon the D100. And the sleeker, more polished finish of 10D is useful to impress clients even if it's not necessarily much stronger than the D70 plastic.

I know I'm really hoping the D70 is it for me, but the reality is it all depends on your needs. For the pros (and those who will spend the $$$ on higher end bodies like 1D and top L lenses), these cameras are more like starter cams and backups. And at the higher levels, Nikon still doesn't compete, especially after the 1D MkII announcement.

_Man_

[2new]

The beauty of all of this is the competition. When these two giants compete we all win. Better equipment & better prices $$.

As far as entry level DSLRs go;
The better Marketing tends to win.

Get them in the door with a less expensive camera, and let the nuts on this board (et al) get them lusting after L-Glass as I am now.

One year ago I could not imagine spending $999 on a camera body & only 3 months with the 300D and I will be dropping twice the body cost on some quality lenses in the near future (after PMA).

It's like damn drugs...
I can't stop now

I am actually looking forward to the L-coholics meetings. What the hell has happened to me...................................

[Tom W]

But still..........a $300 price cut to the 10D is not enough to compete with the D70....... And a price cut to the 10D would have to mean a price cut to the Rebel.

Well, if Canon cuts the 10D by $300, it'll do just fine me thinks (at street price of $1150-1200). There still are good reasons to pay more for 10D than D70, especially if you want to do pro studio-type work and either start out w/ 10D or use 10D as backup. I doubt the D70 can touch 10D noise performance at ISO100 even if the D70 improves upon the D100. And the sleeker, more polished finish of 10D is useful to impress clients even if it's not necessarily much stronger than the D70 plastic.

Don't underestimate the durability of the 10D's body. It's sturdy enough for pro use, not just looks. Its not that plastic is bad and it certainly has its place but if you want a durable, sturdy, non-maleable structure that holds its tolerances, metal is hard to beat. Plus, metal is not likely to deform, expand, or contract significantly within the range of temperatures that a camera is normally subjected subject.

I know I'm really hoping the D70 is it for me, but the reality is it all depends on your needs. For the pros (and those who will spend the $$$ on higher end bodies like 1D and top L lenses), these cameras are more like starter cams and backups. And at the higher levels, Nikon still doesn't compete, especially after the 1D MkII announcement.

_Man_

Seems to me that you've already made up your mind, but I would hope that you wait until after the show (and at least one good test report on the new Nikon). Its a good chunk of money that you're going to spend, and I don't think you want to spend it without careful consideration. And, unless Nikon has made some drastic improvements in its CCD system, the DRebel's noise levels will still be considerably lower.

[Man-Fai Wong]

Get them in the door with a less expensive camera, and let the nuts on this board (et al) get them lusting after L-Glass as I am now.

One year ago I could not imagine spending $999 on a camera body & only 3 months with the 300D and I will be dropping twice the body cost on some quality lenses in the near future (after PMA).

It's like damn drugs...
I can't stop now

I am actually looking forward to the L-coholics meetings. What the hell has happened to me...................................

LOL. This reminds me of the audiophile "hobby". :D I used to dream about owning $10K speakers (just stereo, not surround sound) w/ individual components (ie. not all-in-one receiver-type) costing ~$2K each back 15 years ago, and those are not even necessarily top high-end either. :shock: But I snapped out of it after graduating from college and facing reality. Still, I do spend a bit on these things, including an HD RPTV a year ago so I can do some justice to watching Lord of the Rings at home -- they got me w/ DVD. ;) It's all very addicting. :D

And now, I'm getting deeper into photography (and looking DSLR) because I caught the bug to replace my age-old 2MP digicam w/ the G3 and learned to do more than just point-and-shoot. :D But I have to set a limit on myself like I do w/ everything. No >$1K lenses for me; that's for sure. I'm inclined to think I should even limit myself to <=$600 lenses -- that seems like a reasonable limit for good 2nd class lenses, which actually (barely) includes the 70-200L f/4. :D

_Man_

[Man-Fai Wong]

Seems to me that you've already made up your mind, but I would hope that you wait until after the show (and at least one good test report on the new Nikon). Its a good chunk of money that you're going to spend, and I don't think you want to spend it without careful consideration. And, unless Nikon has made some drastic improvements in its CCD system, the DRebel's noise levels will still be considerably lower.

Well, no, I haven't actually made up my mind just yet. I will definitely need to see some solid proof that the D70 will perform. I won't mind if its noise level is a tad worse, especially if comparing its ISO200 to D-Rebel's ISO100. But it does need to hold its own in general. A slight improvement over D100 noise performance will be plenty good enough me thinks. Basically, it's in Nikon's court now.

Of course, as I said before, if Canon slashes prices (or re-enables some features in the D-Rebel), I will certainly reconsider. At $900-1000, I need the camera body to be a bit more feature-rich than the D-Rebel since I won't want to upgrade everytime Canon comes out w/ a new Rebel, which is possibly once a year(!).

_Man_

[pradeep1]

Latest full review:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond70/

[Tom W]

Hmmmmnnn....

Interesting comparison. On one hand, the Nikon has a couple of features that are very useful, such as flash compensation, 1/8000 shutter, and USB 2.0 support (if it is downward compatible).

On the other hand, there's some pretty meaningless stuff there, like +/- 5 stop exposure compensation. That seems wider than what might be useful and in those rare moments that it might be, one can shoot in manual. As well, the comparison of metering seems suspect as there is no evidence other than a fancy name that any of the 3 cameras has a superior metering scheme.

I also found it ironic that while the author found that having a hue adjustment and 7 available presets in addition to the other image parameters was to the Nikon's benefit, he didn't see any benefit to having 7 instead of 5 focus zones, nor did he think that the availability of A-Dep was a benefit.


Overall, and with regard to useful features, I'd give the Nikon an edge over the Rebel, but testing will tell if it is superior in picture quality. As well, some of the advantages given to the Nikon in the test are meaningless or are based on useless features.

IMHO, of course.

[PaulB]

When was the last time anyone used 1/8000th. second shutter speed in normal shooting conditions - ie. not in the lab. or studio doing fancy haigh=speed /stop motion work? Honestly!

[Morden]

When was the last time anyone used 1/8000th. second shutter speed in normal shooting conditions - ie. not in the lab. or studio doing fancy haigh=speed /stop motion work? Honestly!
I need it to capture the money leaving my wallet whenever I'm near a camera shop. :roll:

[Tom W]

Now that you mention it, considering that my FT only goes to 1/1000 and my old Olympus P&S only shoots as fast as 1/250, I'd say that 1/8000's use may be limited as well. I don't recall ever exceeding 1/2000 on the Elan, save for once or twice. And that was with 400 film and a wide aperture. If I had been able to switch to ISO 100 like I can with the digital, I wouldn't have needed that either.

[Tom W]

I need it to capture the money leaving my wallet whenever I'm near a camera shop. :roll:

:lol: Good one! And so true. :shock:

[roanjohn]

Key differences:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond70/

All the way at the bottom............regarding shutter release:

Nikon D70 is very fast :-) I mean..........is this for real??

Anyways,

These are the deal breaker for me (with the 300D):

Lack of FEC, forced AF mode, only 1st curtain sync, only 10 sec self timer and 3 sec. start up. (In order of importance).

The deal breaker for the Nikon D70 is not yet confirmed, and that is image quality...........I guess we'll just have to wait. Oh, and I noticed that the line-up for Nikon lenses are not that impressive.........they're also a tad more expensive.

And also...........the Nikon Kit set is 300 USD more.........With that, I can get a 1 GB memory card and the legendary 50mm f1.8 prime :-)

Oy!!

Ro1

[Chris1le]

Well, I've jumped of the fence and landed on the Canon side. The D70 is pretty impressive in this price range. But after seeing Canon's answer to the D2h I can only assume that their next model in this price range will blow the D70 out of the water. After all, I'll be investing in a system not just a camera. So if I get the lenses and accessories for Canon I should be confident that Canon will be able to provide me with a top of the line body to attach them to. I'm looking forward to the rest of Canon's releases this month. :D

[karusel]

My 2 cents: Those of you who voted NO, don't understand what '300D killer' means. Who do you think would buy a Rebel? Pros with large collection of L lens? A serious amateur who currently owns an advanced EOS camera? I don't think so. Target group for the Rebel are people who are _entering_ (d)SLR market, people who don't really wan't to spend much and yet feel like they got alot - they see a good deal. Target group are also people who currently own _any_ of compact cameras.

In this class Nikon will definetely kill Rebel and it's not just about all-black design it's about speed, metering, lots of other advantages, once you consider that you can feel the Rebel got pretty inferior... Exception are those people who wish to buy a cheaper canon camera and good lens and then upgrading to 10D or whatever comes up.

BTW, my greatest fear is to buy a camera just before the big price drop, I'm gonna buy 10D or 300D in a month or so and Nikon launch D70 in march, and there will quite certainly be some sort of price-dropping effect. Oh yeah and very heavy depreciation on 300D.

[pradeep1]

My 2 cents: Those of you who voted NO, don't understand what '300D killer' means. Who do you think would buy a Rebel? Pros with large collection of L lens? A serious amateur who currently owns an advanced EOS camera? I don't think so. Target group for the Rebel are people who are _entering_ (d)SLR market, people who don't really wan't to spend much and yet feel like they got alot - they see a good deal. Target group are also people who currently own _any_ of compact cameras.

In this class Nikon will definetely kill Rebel and it's not just about all-black design it's about speed, metering, lots of other advantages, once you consider that you can feel the Rebel got pretty inferior... Exception are those people who wish to buy a cheaper canon camera and good lens and then upgrading to 10D or whatever comes up.

BTW, my greatest fear is to buy a camera just before the big price drop, I'm gonna buy 10D or 300D in a month or so and Nikon launch D70 in march, and there will quite certainly be some sort of price-dropping effect. Oh yeah and very heavy depreciation on 300D.

With your point noted, I voted "Yes" as the D70 being a 300D killer. Amateurs who have no bias or first time dSLR buyers with no hardware investment in lenses maybe more inclined for the D70. Fortunately, Nikon did not announce this before last Christmas.

We'll have to see how this pans out after Canon gives their response. Either way, we will benefit. I'd wait 3-4 months after Canon announces their response to go bargain hunting. Expect maybe a $200 drop in 300D prices by end of summer. Imagine that, you can have a 300D for the price of a G5? :D

[jinushaun]

Really,. you'd be kind of nuts to give up any established collection of lenses to switch from one to the other.

So the competition with the low priced models is "who gets the first time SLR buyer" ?

Well,. with the DRebels lead time,. it certainly has an advvantage there.

By Chritmas 2004... who knows?Indeed.

[Man-Fai Wong]

I agree. And even though I'm leaning heavily toward D70 right now, as I said before, I'm not opposed to going D-Rebel if Canon offers a serious price drop to separate it from the D70. The savings would be nice to go towards good glass like the 70-200L f/4 or maybe 17-40L if I decide the kit lens is not good enough.

I'd think if people are being honest, they should probably at least vote "maybe", not outright "no". Of course, this is just a poll and doesn't really amount to anything. :D

_Man_

My 2 cents: Those of you who voted NO, don't understand what '300D killer' means. Who do you think would buy a Rebel? Pros with large collection of L lens? A serious amateur who currently owns an advanced EOS camera? I don't think so. Target group for the Rebel are people who are _entering_ (d)SLR market, people who don't really wan't to spend much and yet feel like they got alot - they see a good deal. Target group are also people who currently own _any_ of compact cameras.

In this class Nikon will definetely kill Rebel and it's not just about all-black design it's about speed, metering, lots of other advantages, once you consider that you can feel the Rebel got pretty inferior... Exception are those people who wish to buy a cheaper canon camera and good lens and then upgrading to 10D or whatever comes up.

BTW, my greatest fear is to buy a camera just before the big price drop, I'm gonna buy 10D or 300D in a month or so and Nikon launch D70 in march, and there will quite certainly be some sort of price-dropping effect. Oh yeah and very heavy depreciation on 300D.

With your point noted, I voted "Yes" as the D70 being a 300D killer. Amateurs who have no bias or first time dSLR buyers with no hardware investment in lenses maybe more inclined for the D70. Fortunately, Nikon did not announce this before last Christmas.

We'll have to see how this pans out after Canon gives their response. Either way, we will benefit. I'd wait 3-4 months after Canon announces their response to go bargain hunting. Expect maybe a $200 drop in 300D prices by end of summer. Imagine that, you can have a 300D for the price of a G5? :D

[kraterz]

This only makes sense if you are a newbie who has no investment in SLR gear. I can't use my L lenses on the Nikon can I? And Canon will come up with something else, and so will Nikon 6 months down the line, and so will Canon 12 months down the line etc. I couldn't care less.

[Andy_T]

Don't forget that there's also a big bunch of people out there who do have Nikon gear and want to buy their first DSLR in the next 12 months (me being one of these :lol: )

So far, it was a no-brainer to me that I would change for Canon on my first DSLR, mainly because of the (presumedly) superior lens roundup, but also because of the better features of the 10D or the better value proposition of the 300D.

I'm still leaning heavily towards jumping ship to Canon, but the D70 is - at last - some viable alternative.

Regards,
Andy

[Man-Fai Wong]

Actually, having existing gear from either brand might not be such a huge incentive unless we're talking the expensive, reasonably modern, good stuff. Also, if you're coming from film SLR, the effective focal lengths will be much different anyway and might lead you to replace some lenses also.

It seems like most people that ask about compatibility w/ their old film gear have plenty of lenses (and maybe flashes also) that they might be better off replacing. OTOH, I guess having existing gear does allow one to slowly replace as one feels the need.

_Man_

[Andy_T]

Man,

basically, you're right. That's the major point for me, as well. The lenses I have from my old Nikon SLR (1.8/50, 3.5-4.5/24-50, 3.5-4.5/35-70, 3.5-4.5/70-200) are mediocre and will most likely result in sub-optimal performance on a 6 MP SLR. For this reason, changing to Canon seems logical, as I certainly will buy selected some L, XR, ATX ... and prime lenses in the near future.

I know that I'll spend * a lot more * on these as I spent on the body. (If I was not ready to do that, I'd rather stick with my G2 than thinking about upgrading to a DSLR)

However, many SLR users might be happy with 90 % quality and not *need* to go that last mile. For them, having invested some 500 - 1000 USD in lenses might be important.

OTOH, if I was looking for that quality of lens in a new system, i might get them cheaply on eBay (and sell of the ones I have in the other system)

Regards,
Andy

[pradeep1]

Actually, having existing gear from either brand might not be such a huge incentive unless we're talking the expensive, reasonably modern, good stuff. Also, if you're coming from film SLR, the effective focal lengths will be much different anyway and might lead you to replace some lenses also.

It seems like most people that ask about compatibility w/ their old film gear have plenty of lenses (and maybe flashes also) that they might be better off replacing. OTOH, I guess having existing gear does allow one to slowly replace as one feels the need.

_Man_

If you've got a relatively small assortment of lenses that would be less than practical with the 1.6X factor coming into play, then abandoning a system and going with something else may make sense. eBay is good for that. I could chuck my Canon Elan IIe, 28-105, 70-300IS, and my G3 on eBay and use that for putting together a Canon 300D with a 17-40L system or the D70 with it's equivalent glass. But I would not do that, since I am a Canon fan. But there are people who would, considering on paper that the D70 has almost 10D features for a 300D price.

Of course our Canon fans would be die-hard and wait to get a better deal on the 300D and pair it up with new good glass.

Either way, this entire thread will be moot in 8 days time, once the PMA show comes rolling around. 8)

[Malaxos1]

Is Nikon's D70 equivalent to a 10D but at a 300D price?

Hot off the presses:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond70/

I don't think so. There are few things that the camera has that the Rebel doesn't, the first is flash comensation. I wish my Rebel had it, But the Rebe's TTL works so well with the flash that I had not even need to compensate. Also Nikons have more problems with digital noise than the Canons. Just look at the Rebel's test at Steve's Digicam. He compare the Rebel with the 10D and D100.

[roanjohn]

To see is to believe :shock:

If the full-size images I saw from dpreview.com Nikon SLR forum is from the D70, then I have made up my mind and I am putting my name down that list!!! The photos are amazing!!! (Of course unless somebody did this as a joke and applied noise ninja or etc...)

If Canon doesn't introduce something new (D70 competitor) for the PMA, then I'll be renewing my passport for a visit to Nikon Land.

Ro1

[Andy_T]

I could chuck my Canon Elan IIe, 28-105, 70-300IS, and my G3 on eBay and use that for putting together a Canon 300D with a 17-40L system or the D70 with it's equivalent glass.

How much money do you expect to make from those items on eBay?

I would rather try out how the 28-105 and 70-300 on the 300D instead of selling them off immediately. The 70-300 is suppsed to perform OK on the DRebel until you really decide to upgrade to L glass.

The G3 makes a nice backup or walk-around cam.

Regards,
Andy

[Tom W]

Yes - think twice about chucking the 28-105. Here's that lens on my 10D:

http://home.comcast.net/~trwilk3/Images/Bailey_750.jpg

[pradeep1]

I could chuck my Canon Elan IIe, 28-105, 70-300IS, and my G3 on eBay and use that for putting together a Canon 300D with a 17-40L system or the D70 with it's equivalent glass.

How much money do you expect to make from those items on eBay?

I would rather try out how the 28-105 and 70-300 on the 300D instead of selling them off immediately. The 70-300 is suppsed to perform OK on the DRebel until you really decide to upgrade to L glass.

The G3 makes a nice backup or walk-around cam.

Regards,
Andy


Thaler the Impaler,

No chucking. Could chuck, much like a woodchuck could chuck. My course of action is to keep all my beloved EOS lenses and buy the next iteration of the 10D when all the features I want are at the price point I am willing to pay. I'd never get rid of my G3. My little precious.

This was for example sake only. :D

Take Care,

[Andy_T]

Thaler the Impaler,

No chucking. Could chuck, much like a woodchuck could chuck. My course of action is to keep all my beloved EOS lenses and buy the next iteration of the 10D when all the features I want are at the price point I am willing to pay. I'd never get rid of my G3. My little precious.

This was for example sake only. :D

Take Care,

Thought so.

Don't put examples like that on the forum here, or your G3 is going to be mad with you and spoil your next great shot :lol:

Regards,
Andy

PS: I'll also hold on to my G2 until they have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers (or so 8) )

[pradeep1]

Thaler the Impaler,

No chucking. Could chuck, much like a woodchuck could chuck. My course of action is to keep all my beloved EOS lenses and buy the next iteration of the 10D when all the features I want are at the price point I am willing to pay. I'd never get rid of my G3. My little precious.

This was for example sake only. :D

Take Care,

Thought so.

Don't put examples like that on the forum here, or your G3 is going to be mad with you and spoil your next great shot :lol:

Regards,
Andy

PS: I'll also hold on to my G2 until they have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers (or so 8) )

Can you imagine someone from the near future reading these threads and wondering what was up with those G-series cameras to warrant such undue affection and pining? By that time, Canon will have the H-series or the Z-series and our little cameras will seem like mere toys, the way we look at those webcams with their whopping 76,800 pixels. Remember when that was considered good?

Aaah, the march of progress... :roll:

[Sketcher]

Camera vs Camera, the D70 pwns the 300D; at an additional cost (though image quality is yet to be proven). So it's still not quite apples to apples. The D70 is impressive, and a worth a look if you're not already toting a bag of glass. Curious that it doesn't accomodate a vertical grip (or did I miss something there?).

With all the pseudo phallic comparison however, I think the forest is being missed for the trees. Camera body's come and go. There's a new one every other year which has everyone drooling and questioning their lineage. It sounds like many here are willing to bet the farm on the latest flash in the pan with nary a thought regarding longetivity in the endless battle of Canon vs Nikon. The D70 is sweet for its' niche as will be Canon's answer. So put the rulers back on the shelf and zip up the pants. The better interest IMO should be in the glass.

Which lenses do you prefer and which ones can you; will you afford? I read the musings of one photographer who priced out all of the lenses which covered the range he wanted and would potentially buy some day (Canon "L" vs Nikkor) and adding it all up, he could have bought a 1DMKII with the difference of total cost in favor of Canon Glass. The camera bodies will compete and update every year or other. The glass will outlast them all.

If you're making your life long enthusiast/hobby/career decision on a camera body, you're in for disappointment as soon as the other camp answers the call to battle. Now if you're already in the fight with a set of lenses, that may dissuade you from considering one over the other; though many a Nikonian has sold their gear to obtain the long Canon IS and fewer but still noted Canonites have left their gear for the Nikon Wide Angle and their approach to image processing. They're both top notch and worth your money, but that 'worth' is what you need to decide. Just don't sign in blood for a camera. Save the blood letting for the lenses, because some day even the 1DMKII is going to be considered a good backup camera.

It's all about the image people, the "Big Picture" if you will. Pun intended.

[pradeep1]

Camera vs Camera, the D70 pwns the 300D; at an additional cost (though image quality is yet to be proven). So it's still not quite apples to apples. The D70 is impressive, and a worth a look if you're not already toting a bag of glass. Curious that it doesn't accomodate a vertical grip (or did I miss something there?).

With all the pseudo phallic comparison however, I think the forest is being missed for the trees. Camera body's come and go. There's a new one every other year which has everyone drooling and questioning their lineage. It sounds like many here are willing to bet the farm on the latest flash in the pan with nary a thought regarding longetivity in the endless battle of Canon vs Nikon. The D70 is sweet for its' niche as will be Canon's answer. So put the rulers back on the shelf and zip up the pants. The better interest IMO should be in the glass.

Which lenses do you prefer and which ones can you; will you afford? I read the musings of one photographer who priced out all of the lenses which covered the range he wanted and would potentially buy some day (Canon "L" vs Nikkor) and adding it all up, he could have bought a 1DMKII with the difference of total cost in favor of Canon Glass. The camera bodies will compete and update every year or other. The glass will outlast them all.

If you're making your life long enthusiast/hobby/career decision on a camera body, you're in for disappointment as soon as the other camp answers the call to battle. Now if you're already in the fight with a set of lenses, that may dissuade you from considering one over the other; though many a Nikonian has sold their gear to obtain the long Canon IS and fewer but still noted Canonites have left their gear for the Nikon Wide Angle and their approach to image processing. They're both top notch and worth your money, but that 'worth' is what you need to decide. Just don't sign in blood for a camera. Save the blood letting for the lenses, because some day even the 1DMKII is going to be considered a good backup camera.

It's all about the image people, the "Big Picture" if you will. Pun intended.

I agree with you 110%, but we are gearheads with time on our hands to sit here and yack, instead of making photographs, so forgive us! :lol: We enjoy this! :D

[Man-Fai Wong]

Which lenses do you prefer and which ones can you; will you afford?

I agree w/ your premise also although I'm not so sure lens prices won't change enough to even things out there for any particular person. If you're buying all the lenses right now (or need the exclusives upfront), sure, but not if you're planning to do it over the long haul and don't require the exclusives just yet.

As for myself, I've already decided I can't afford (and probably won't need) the very top lenses from either side. In many cases, a 3rd party lens will likely be the ticket for me, so no advantage either way. And there's probably just enough wriggle room on either side to get it done w/in most realistic budgets give or take a little -- if you can afford all L lenses, then you really don't have a budget. Yeah, preferences will factor in, but it's almost like dealing w/ the features list and ergonomics comparing bodies.

But again, I agree that one needs to consider the whole system and philosophy of each maker. And in the end, actually go out and enjoy photography, not just talking shop over here. :D I sure hope I don't have to do this every year since I'd rather be happy shooting and sharing photos.

_Man_

[danphoto1]

I deel that Canon is just an alaround superior camera. I have a good freind that is a photojournalist and has won national awards he has shot with Nikon for about 35 to 40 years . I have a 1D and we did an assignment together for First Night. When he saw the shots that I was getting. he looked into Canon. His paper still uses Nikon but he owns a 1D and 10D adn swears by them. He feels that Canon is a better quaility instrument. There are a a lot of problems with the quality of Nikon products. It looks like Canon has made a commitment for quality and intends to keep it. I agree and wouldn't trade my Canon for anything


Dan