Yay for Windows Vista

[Pete]

Finally got to install the final version of Windows Vista tonight and I'm well impressed. Way way smoother and faster than the earlier beta versions...

[neil_r]

Go on take the leap of faith, give OS X a try :-)

Runs and takes cover.......

[steved110]

My DVD rewriter has not been the same since I downloaded IE7 - loads of good advice and reloading the program have not helped. Of course the rewriter may simply be a lousy machine that has blown itself up coincidentally...it is a Sony and i get the impression half the stuff they sell is just badged with their name

My 2 decisions out of this are - to be much more careful about downloading any 'upgrades' from Microsoft until they are proven, and also to strongly consider a Mac when my next desk top is being planned!

Glad to hear you are happy - but personally I'll watch and wait a little bit longer.....

[condyk]

Man ... I am a Microsoft Partner and I ain't got a proper version yet :cry: :cry: Not that I'd actually install it on anything I need to use this year :confused:

[Pete]

I've had Vista on my laptop ever since Beta 2 came out. It's run pretty good since then, but then the only things I really use it for these days is email, browsing and photoshop. If you're really worried about losing something vital (and why don't you back up??), then don't install it unless it's proven. As all my photos are on an external drive and I can always replace my applications, I'm ok to risk it. I'm liking it so far!

Oh, and I'm an MSDN subscriber, so we get to see stuff before the public does...! :D

[KirkM]

Maybe you can get a Zune to go with that Vista :)

[Pete]

Maybe you can get a Zune to go with that Vista :)

Hehe.. working on it, but read that the navigation isn't as good as the ipod, if it's cheap enough.....

[xft.y]

zune doesn't work with vista

http://www.tmcnet.com/ce/articles/3685-zune-vista-dont-gel-well.htm

ahhh the genius that is redmond.

[Pete]

Hehe.. Nice find that. Still, that was probably referring to RC2 of Vista. And there's the fact that the Zune won't be available in the UK until after Christmas sometime.

I can live with my iPod a while longer, even though it's borked...

Hmm.. also explains why Microsoft were still giving away Creative Zens as prizes in the last Tech-Ed...

[rhys]

I've had it with Microsoft O/Ss. I didn't want XP the last couple of times I got myself new systems. My next computer purchase will definitely be a Mac. Of course if Linux ever breaks out of toy desktop status and becomes a serious desktop then I might look at it harder.

[Billginthekeys]

I've had it with Microsoft O/Ss. I didn't want XP the last couple of times I got myself new systems. My next computer purchase will definitely be a Mac. Of course if Linux ever breaks out of toy desktop status and becomes a serious desktop then I might look at it harder.
good for you?

[Radtech1]

Go on take the leap of faith, give OS X a try :-)

Runs and takes cover.......

Hey, hey, hey, hey!

No religious discussions!!!

tee hee.

Rad

[xft.y]

XP isn't too bad, I've got used to it over a while after using win2k. but vista is the last straw frankly, I'm not buying it for at least 4-5 years. replace your mobo and you have to buy a new bloody license? get out of here. I can't believe Aero has to keep running all the time as well, so your games run a good amount slower than under DX9.

I've recently had the chance to play with KDE debian and mandriva as well....yeah ok theyre usable, but wouldnt want to give one to a techno-idiot. not the easiest things to work with, and what a hassle trying to get my wireless USB stick to work with either (neither still do).

[rhys]

XP isn't too bad, I've got used to it over a while after using win2k. but vista is the last straw frankly, I'm not buying it for at least 4-5 years. replace your mobo and you have to buy a new bloody license? get out of here. I can't believe Aero has to keep running all the time as well, so your games run a good amount slower than under DX9.

I've recently had the chance to play with KDE debian and mandriva as well....yeah ok theyre usable, but wouldnt want to give one to a techno-idiot. not the easiest things to work with, and what a hassle trying to get my wireless USB stick to work with either (neither still do).

I was miffed by XP having to call home in order to keep running. 5 years down the line when XP calls home it'll report back "installation failure. Buy a new O/S". Why am I using XP? Two reasons:
1. When I built my PC I already had lots of email data in Outlook Express format. I also had Office 97. Thus I went for XP rather than Windows 98 although NT4 would have sufficed if NT4 had USB support. Of course Office 97 doesn't run under XP - had I known that beforehand I would not have bothered and would have gone Mac despite the fact it was more expensive.
2. When I got my laptop Apple was in the changeover process so I couldn't be sure whether there would be an Apple laptop of the spec I desired. As it turned out the 12" iBook is history. Now it's a 13" MacBook, which is a shame as I liked the smaller footprint of the 12" iBook.

As far as Linux is concerned, it needs a lot of work before it can rival Windows. The user interface really isn't quite there yet. The software packages lag behind severely too. The Gimp is a programmer's plaything - not a photographer's tool.


The interesting fact is that OSX (Apple) is very similar to Linux being based on Free BSD (a form of Linux). Apple has really spent money on the user interface though.

[Michaelmjc]

Go on take the leap of faith, give OS X a try :-)

Runs and takes cover.......


Uh oh, good thing you started it....GO MACS!

*runs and ducks*

[Lightstream]

The interesting fact is that OSX (Apple) is very similar to Linux being based on Free BSD (a form of Linux).

Uhmm, no, not really. The Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) family tree is a different and much older one, but over time they have incorporated many of the GNU/GPL software packages into their distros. Their descendants today are still classified as BSD UNIX, but functionally they work and feel very similar to Linux. MacOSX retains a lot of the FreeBSD elements with a MUCH better GUI.

[Belmondo]

Has everyone agreed on the hardware requirements for Vista yet?

Frankly, I'm going to wait till it's been out for several months before I upgrade any of my machines. I'm really far more interested in Adobe's release of a new version of Photoshop that will run more quieckly on my Intel-based Macs.

[JaGWiRE]

I've had it with Microsoft O/Ss. I didn't want XP the last couple of times I got myself new systems. My next computer purchase will definitely be a Mac. Of course if Linux ever breaks out of toy desktop status and becomes a serious desktop then I might look at it harder.

Hehe, you and me both.

Hell, I'll still get Vista. As much as I hate Windows, I'm still a power user and will be I am sure for many years to come. Sometimes it just gets frusterating troubleshooting stupid problems.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

Uh oh, good thing you started it....GO MACS!

*runs and ducks*

I'm with ya buddy. I love my mac too and I haven't even had it a week yet... Simply amazing!

Yay for OSX! :lol:

[Zepher]

I don't plan on using Vista until newer versions of the apps I run require it.
I am still running on a 4 year old install of WinXP Pro. Swapped out 4 motherboards, 4 procs, and 4 video cards without having to reinstall the OS (sysprep is your friend when upgrading major components). Started with a Pentium 2 300mhz up to my current P4 3.65ghz.
XP works great for me. Nice and stable and quick.

[Belmondo]

I don't plan on using Vista until newer versions of the apps I run require it

---one of the more intelligent responses in this thread so far, and he didn't mention Mac or OS X even once.

[Billginthekeys]

---one of the more intelligent responses in this thread so far, and he didn't mention Mac or OS X even once.
amazing what happens when people talk about windows in a windows thread...

[sinister]

Go on take the leap of faith, give OS X a try :-)

Runs and takes cover.......


Well they're trying to make it the same as tiger aren't they?:lol:

[blackshadow]

I'm happy on XP for now but no doubt will update to Vista once the bugs are ironed out and some Vista friendly apps are available. I'll probably end up with a Powerbook as well. I am not fussed on whether I am using PCs or Macs as long as they do the job.

[sonnyc]

I've gotta upgrade my Windows 98 laptop :D

[joeseph]

Got a "thou shalt not connect a Vista machine to our corporate network" e-mail today.
Me, I'm still bashing my head against a brick wall trying to use the legal OEM XP key on my laptop to work without resorting to using a select cd & license from work. Laptop didn't come with restore CD you see, and you can't just download one from HP - can't imagine why not... Magic Jellybean just confused the issue and now it won't activate properly. Oh well, back to the drawingboard.

[rklepper]

Finally got to install the final version of Windows Vista tonight and I'm well impressed. Way way smoother and faster than the earlier beta versions...

So you are running a final release and not a release candidate?

[EOSAddict]

Think yourself lucky, my work network is still NT and IE5

[cosworth]

As a former OS X user, troubleshooter etc. I can say I won't be going back to mac anytime soon.

Although a very good OS, a good piece of hardware and the like.... I still see far more value in buying a dell every year with Winbloat. Strip it down, remove the services, keep it clean, and run as much software onit that is available for a Mac and it runs excellent. Fill it with garbage freeware, stupid themes, top heavy services that are uneccessary only to fuel processor upgrades.

Most people that have problems with Windows don't know how to run it skinny and strealined. Remember that sentence started with "most" NOT all.

Windows is what you make of it. Mac makes it for you.

[rhys]

Me, I'm still bashing my head against a brick wall trying to use the legal OEM XP key on my laptop to work without resorting to using a select cd & license from work. Laptop didn't come with restore CD you see, and you can't just download one from HP - can't imagine why not... Magic Jellybean just confused the issue and now it won't activate properly. Oh well, back to the drawingboard.

Heh. I had that problem with a Dell. Only thing the installation CD would go so far and leave essential files out so XP would not run. I ended up putting Windows 98 on that desktop. Bonus - it didn't need to connect to the internet to call home! I did try Linux on the same PC but Linux needed more RAM than the machine had. Thus it's currently sitting in my closet awaiting more RAM and my forthcoming office.

[cjd]

Go on take the leap of faith, give OS X a try

I tried that. It won't install on any of my systems. ;)

Neither will Vista, but I think that may be the fact that I do not agree to the terms of the license. Just maybe. :lol:

(OK, so I didn't really try installing OSX because I knew up front it wouldn't install, but... my problem with using it doesn't go away)

[Belmondo]

Not to keep bringing up the Mac OS, but there is a connection to Windows. I can run Window on my MacPro and my MacBook Pro using Boot Camp. There is talk that Boot Camp will be built into the next Mac OS (10.5). One can only hope that it will alsoo run Vista.

[rhys]

After the debaucle of Windows 95 and 98 I managed to get NT4 cheap on ebay. Had that had USB and PCMCIA support then I would still be using it. It was lightweight, functional and fast. 95, 98 and XP are horribly slow to start. XP doesn't usually crash although it's not crash free despite what Microsoft says. Unlike the previous O/Ss from Microsoft, XP likes to call home too often for my liking. I understand Vista is worse for that and that unlike XP which can be reinstalled many times you can only reinstall Vista twice before you have to buy a new copy. Now I've had to reinstall XP twice on my laptop (in 6 months) and 5 or 6 times on my desktop. I'd have had to fork out for many more copies of Vista than I ever actually needed.

I guarantee that within a week of Vista being released, somebody will have a crack for it, allowing people to use it free. IMHO Microsoft pushed the limits with XP and have gone well beyond what's acceptible with Vista. I don't agree with their licencing model nor with the way they implement their current version. Consumer law in most countries states that if I buy something then it's mine and I don't need permission to use it. Example - I buy a book. I can read it now, read it in 50 years time or give it to a friend, lend it to friends etc. Try that with Vista. Microsoft lost several law cases in Britain over fair use with XP. I think they paid up each time and kept their illegal model running on the basis that they lose far less law suits than they sell copies of their O/S so that fines for breaking the law are just factored in as business expenses.

As I have already said - I will not buy Vista. If I must then I will use Linux but I will absolutely not buy another Microsoft product.

[cdifoto]

I'd have had to fork out for many more copies of Vista than I ever actually needed.

I guarantee that within a week of Vista being released, somebody will have a crack for it, allowing people to use it free.

This makes no sense. Then again, things you say rarely ever do.

[PacAce]

After the debaucle of Windows 95 and 98 I managed to get NT4 cheap on ebay. Had that had USB and PCMCIA support then I would still be using it. It was lightweight, functional and fast. 95, 98 and XP are horribly slow to start. XP doesn't usually crash although it's not crash free despite what Microsoft says. Unlike the previous O/Ss from Microsoft, XP likes to call home too often for my liking. I understand Vista is worse for that and that unlike XP which can be reinstalled many times you can only reinstall Vista twice before you have to buy a new copy. Now I've had to reinstall XP twice on my laptop (in 6 months) and 5 or 6 times on my desktop. I'd have had to fork out for many more copies of Vista than I ever actually needed.

I guarantee that within a week of Vista being released, somebody will have a crack for it, allowing people to use it free. IMHO Microsoft pushed the limits with XP and have gone well beyond what's acceptible with Vista. I don't agree with their licencing model nor with the way they implement their current version. Consumer law in most countries states that if I buy something then it's mine and I don't need permission to use it. Example - I buy a book. I can read it now, read it in 50 years time or give it to a friend, lend it to friends etc. Try that with Vista. Microsoft lost several law cases in Britain over fair use with XP. I think they paid up each time and kept their illegal model running on the basis that they lose far less law suits than they sell copies of their O/S so that fines for breaking the law are just factored in as business expenses.

As I have already said - I will not buy Vista. If I must then I will use Linux but I will absolutely not buy another Microsoft product.

How about Windows 2000 Pro? I was using that up until last month on my work laptop when they gave me a new Dell Latitude with XP installed on it. I've had it (i.e. XP) crash more times during the one month I've had it than my previous IBM laptop with W2K running it the previous two years ever dit. :confused:

Of course, my desktop PC at home is running XP, too, but it's been running smoothly since day one. That, however, is not counting the fact that I've had to reinstall XP on it a couple of times due to either Microsoft auto updates screwing up the whole system or spyware that somehow managed to infiltrate my computer and I couldn't get rid of it.

[rhys]

How about Windows 2000 Pro? I was using that up until last month on my work laptop when they gave me a new Dell Latitude with XP installed on it. I've had it (i.e. XP) crash more times during the one month I've had it than my previous IBM laptop with W2K running it the previous two years ever dit. :confused:

Of course, my desktop PC at home is running XP, too, but it's been running smoothly since day one. That, however, is not counting the fact that I've had to reinstall XP on it a couple of times due to either Microsoft auto updates screwing up the whole system or spyware that somehow managed to infiltrate my computer and I couldn't get rid of it.

I never managed to get win 2K. I gather it's the best of all of the MS offerings in that it reads USB and doesn't have XPs owner unfriendly dial home approach. Wasn't 2K a development of NT4 while XP was a complete re-write?

[Pete]

I never managed to get win 2K. I gather it's the best of all of the MS offerings in that it reads USB and doesn't have XPs owner unfriendly dial home approach. Wasn't 2K a development of NT4 while XP was a complete re-write?


You seem to make a big deal about this "dial home" feature that you keep talking about. Not many of the other millions of Windows XP users seem to have the same concerns. What's your beef with it? Something you don't want Microsoft knowing about you or something?

Just curious...

[Belmondo]

You seem to make a big deal about this "dial home" feature that you keep talking about. Not many of the other millions of Windows XP users seem to have the same concerns. What's your beef with it? Something you don't want Microsoft knowing about you or something?

Just curious...

Whereas I don't really have these concerns about Windows specifically or Microsoft generally, I think there is a natural tendency among many people to want to preserve their privacy. Without knowing exactly what's being sent to Microsoft by one's computer, there is a perfectly reasonable cause for concern and, frankly, mistrust.

I choose not to get excited about it because I tend to be trusting (naive?) by nature. Not everyone is the same.

[Belmondo]

Need I remind you all? This is a thread about Windows Vista. It is not a discussion of a loss of rights. If so, it becomes political by definition, and has to be locked.

Let's try to get back to talking about operating systems and stop all the superfluous chatter about CIA, ID cards, etc. They're not germain and are definitely beyond the scope of what's allowed in the forums.

If you're opposed to automatic updates, etc., that's okay. Just say so and leave it there, but any discussions that go beyond that are likely going to be removed, and could cause this thread to be locked. That wouldn't be fair to those who letitimately want to discuss Windows Vista and related subjects.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Tom

[cdifoto]

This is a thread about Windows Vista.

Really? Seriously if it weren't for the title you'd never know it. Sad when that happens.

I'm legitimately curious as to how good Vista is. I have a free Express upgrade expiring in March.

[Karl C]

Tom, can we discuss tinfoil hats?

:lol:

[Belmondo]

Tom, can we discuss tinfoil hats?

:lol:

Not unless it's officially part of Windows Vista. Thanks for asking, though.

[cdifoto]

Not unless it's officially part of Windows Vista. Thanks for asking, though.

Doesn't M-Soft package a free tin foil hat with every purchase of the full version? :)

[79TAKid]

Dont they make a 32bit version?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I still see far more value in buying a dell every year with Winbloat. Strip it down, remove the services, keep it clean, and run as much software ....

Most people that have problems with Windows don't know how to run it skinny and streamlined. Remember that sentence started with "most" NOT all.

Windows is what you make of it. ....

Please PLEASE drop into this thread here;

-=The Official Workstation tweeking Thread=- (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2226390#post2226390)

....and share some of the services we can safely stop, and other streamlining tips! :) :) ;)

[CyberDyneSystems]

How about Windows 2000 Pro?

One of MS' best achievements..
Back when I used to set up render farms for distributed computing, the Win2K kernel (is kernel the right word for a non Unix OS?) was the preferred choice for this application as it allowed the systems to make the most of the CPU processing power. One could bump up performance simply by using Win2K over any other OS (on Intel and AMD machines of course)

Of course winXP could offer the same advantages as the 32bit kernel was the same, but one needed to spend a bit of extra time with XP stripping out more junk... so most of us used Win2K with little to no additional tweeking.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Not unless it's officially part of Windows Vista. Thanks for asking, though.

However, we can discuss the latest release of TinFoil Hat ©Linux here.. ;)

[elise1030]

Hubby installed the vista beta on a spare hardrive for a look and while he likes it, he thinks it's a bit buggy. I doubt we'll be buying any copies for a few years yet. I actually prefer to use Xandros on my PC but the only thing that stops me using Xandros fulltime is that the Sims 2 won't run on it, darnit!
Otherwise I'd use it aand I don't like dualbooting cause it's a pain in the butt.

[cdifoto]

I'm hoping they have the worst bugs worked out by March when my upgrade offer expires. I really don't want to pay for an upgrade.


EDIT: Boy do I feel dumb. All I had to do was sign UP for the upgrade before March. It'll be shipped to me when it's released. I don't necessarily have to install if it's buggy. :rolleyes:

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm using WinXP64 bit in a dual boot with XP pro on my workstation.

So far exactly ZERO apps I run are 64Bit.. so I'm not getting any performance benefits,. (other than the OS is able to address all the RAM) but when PSCS3 is released I'm assuming this will be a match made in heaven, then it's "RAM a poloooza" time as we break the 4GB limit :)

So, I doubt I will jump on Vista until I am forced to for software reasons. The only thing that would force that would be if PSCS3 decides to run only on Vista, and NOT XP64 bit :| I'm getting mad just thinking about that possibility!

[cdifoto]

Stupid question CDS, how do you know if your Windows is 64 bit or not?

[rhys]

It's really irksome. My laptop is 64-bit but Linux won't support fully the extra buttons (volume and wifi). They'll work but the lights behind them won't light to show the state. Of course, I'm running a 32 bit OS. I think my laptop's supposed to be Vista capable but quite honestly I don't want Vista at all.

[cdifoto]

It's really irksome. My laptop is 64-bit but Linux won't support fully the extra buttons (volume and wifi). They'll work but the lights behind them won't light to show the state. Of course, I'm running a 32 bit OS. I think my laptop's supposed to be Vista capable but quite honestly I don't want Vista at all.

Rhys, once again your logic illudes me.

[bestfromnw]

i'll wait and install a version of vista after 4 - 5 months. just so i know at least some of the bugs were fixed

[rhys]

Stupid question CDS, how do you know if your Windows is 64 bit or not?

System under Cntrol Panel will tell you this.

[cdifoto]

System under Cntrol Panel will tell you this.

Doesn't say either way whether it's 32 or 64.

[CyberDyneSystems]

**edit** If it doesn't say, then it's the "normal" WinXP.. ie: Not 64 bit.

Stupid question CDS, how do you know if your Windows is 64 bit or not?

The 64Bit version has to be ordered special, and it will say it's that version on boot up (where it normally says XPpro or whatever..

I got it because my CPUs, Mobo and the massive amounts of RAM the hardware supports are all 64bit. But some 32bit apps won't run at all, and those that do (most of them really) run in 32bit mode.
This is why I ended up installing a normal installation of WinXP Pro, so I could still use apps (and frankly printers) which won't run in 64 bit.

Essentially all this stuff that won't run in XP64 are also doomed in Vista, but I think likewise that all the ones I am running happily in 32 bit compatibility mode on XP64 are most likely going to be happy in Vista.

[cdifoto]

**edit** If it doesn't say, then it's the "normal" WinXP.. ie: Not 64 bit.



The 64Bit version has to be ordered special, and it will say it's that version on boot up (where it normally says XPpro or whatever..

I got it because my CPUs, Mobo and the massive amounts of RAM the hardware supports are all 64bit. But some 32bit apps won't run at all, and those that do (most of them really) run in 32bit mode.
This is why I ended up installing a normal installation of WinXP Pro, so I could still use apps (and frankly printers) which won't run in 64 bit.

Essentially all this stuff that won't run in XP64 are also doomed in Vista, but I think likewise that all the ones I am running happily in 32 bit compatibility mode on XP64 are most likely going to be happy in Vista.

Oh ok gotcha. All I can really say is if Vista kills all those 32 bit apps, Microsoft made a really dumb move.

[rhys]

Oh ok gotcha. All I can really say is if Vista kills all those 32 bit apps, Microsoft made a really dumb move.

The only reason I went for XP initially was because I had Office 97. I figured Microsoft would keep backward compatibility as they claimed. No they didn't and I only found out afterwards that I could not use Office 97. Rather than blowing extra money on such devious tricksters I installed Open Office. I had originally wanted to go over to OSX but it was just my email records and my Office 97 that kept me on Windows. Since then I changed from Outlook Express to Thunderbird anyway so I'm fully portable.

[Woolburr]

The only reason I went for XP initially was because I had Office 97. I figured Microsoft would keep backward compatibility as they claimed. No they didn't and I only found out afterwards that I could not use Office 97. Rather than blowing extra money on such devious tricksters I installed Open Office. I had originally wanted to go over to OSX but it was just my email records and my Office 97 that kept me on Windows. Since then I changed from Outlook Express to Thunderbird anyway so I'm fully portable.

Office 97 works perfectly with XP. I have the full suite loaded and use it daily, without a glitch...Once again...you are blowing smoke.

[rhys]

Office 97 works perfectly with XP. I have the full suite loaded and use it daily, without a glitch...Once again...you are blowing smoke.

It would not work for me. There's allegedly a registry tweak needed to make it work - particularly Word 97. Do some research before you start making groundless accusations. Also remember not all XP installations perform the same.

[neil_r]

If you two want to take this off line I will look after your coats :-)

[Woolburr]

It would not work for me. There's allegedly a registry tweak needed to make it work - particularly Word 97. Do some research before you start making groundless accusations. Also remember not all XP installations perform the same.

There is no registry tweak needed...nor is there any problem using Word 97 with XP. Your paranoia is hysterical....You are the person that made the blanket statement that Office 97 wouldn't work on any XP system. What ever your problem with Microsoft is...that is between you and them. Perhaps you should keep it there.

[Karl C]

If you two want to take this off line I will look after your coats :-)

And I'll look after Woolburr's Mark IIN. I promise to keep a VERY close eye on it!

:lol:

[Woolburr]

And I'll look after Woolburr's Mark IIN. I promise to keep a VERY close eye on it!

:lol:

You don't want the 1Ds too? It takes a fairly decent landscape shot.;)

[Karl C]

You don't want the 1Ds too? It takes a fairly decent landscape shot.;)

Okay, and if you've got a 300 f2.8, I'll look after that too!

:D

[Woolburr]

Okay, and if you've got a 300 f2.8, I'll look after that too!

:D

The 300 is on hold until Spring....I don't have a lot of shoots planned between now and then that would require it...I'll have to suffer with the f/4 for now.;)

[darktiger]

I am liking Vista also. A lot better than the beta's...

[Pete]

I am liking Vista also. A lot better than the beta's...

Agree totally, that's why I started up the thread - the final version is less buggy, faster and wholey cool.

[Woolburr]

Pete...which version are you using? One of the Business ones?

[Pete]

Pete...which version are you using? One of the Business ones?

Vista Ultimate. Through our MSDN subscription, we get access to all versions, so I just chose the one with the most features!!

[Woolburr]

Ah...the whole enchilada...can't beat that...Do you think it is living up to the usual hype? I tried beta 3 and was less than impressed.

[Pete]

Ah...the whole enchilada...can't beat that...Do you think it is living up to the usual hype? I tried beta 3 and was less than impressed.

Lots better than Beta 2 and RC1, which were the versions I tried. The production version is a heck of a lot faster, has more bugs removed and is altogether a better experience. If you can get your hands on the final version, install it asap.

[JaGWiRE]

I'm pretty happy with Ultimate too, although it's getting glitchy.. Needs better driver support, and software support, then we'll be good.

[dougxt]

just wondering what would make someone upgrade if they're content with the stability of xp.
from what I've read it kind of seems like it uses more resources and has a bunch of drm stuff.

[Pete]

It actually seems to be smoother running than Windows XP, it looks better, and if you're concerned about security, than go for it.

If you're happy with XP, then stay with it - it'll continue to be supported and upgraded for a long time to come. However, I'm in a situation where I can have it for nothing, and I have a decent spec laptop, so I'm going with it and liking the experience.

[momentz]

I'm running Vista at home and at Work.

All apps seem to be running fine (including archaic 16 bit apps). VMware has a couple of hangups but still works.

The RC1 I'm running at work seems very slow. I wonder if it's possible to upgrade it to the full version? I have downloaded full vista business through our mvla.

Really just waiting for drivers from hardware vendors to come onboard now. With some decent drivers it should be awesome. Best OS microsoft have released in terms of useability and aesthetics.

[Pete]

The RC1 I'm running at work seems very slow. I wonder if it's possible to upgrade it to the full version? I have downloaded full vista business through our mvla.

If you're having performance problems with RC1, I highly recommend that you install the final release, it's very much improved over RC1. I found that I couldn't run the Aero interface with RC1 on my laptop without degrading the screen resolution to an unacceptable level. However, with the final version installed, it's looking great.

And yes, it will install seamlessly over RC1 - you won't have to uninstall anything. You'll also find that you may have better hardware driver support as well.

The only problems I've had with it is with poorly written software that only checks specific major versions of Windows - I have a program that insists it will only work on Windows 2000 or XP, setting the compatibility options is still a bit kack.

[onBit]

<pete & moementz> seems like your experience is good so far.
do you have any laments about XP ? feel like you are missing something that is not in XP ?
i can't wait to upgrade to vista, but i would like to wait until the "hybird hdd's" are availble for a desktop configuration to optimize the windows "readydrive" features, readyboost sounds nice too. =)

im curious how does the vista photo/image suite perform ?

[JCR]

I have an MSDN subscription I have final version of vista enterprise installed then uninstalled it.
Clean install of XP will set your memory usage to around 100mb (OOTB config)
Clean install of vista enterprise will cost you 600mb of ram before you open anything.
Bonus is vista runs a lot faster opening/closing windows etc. PS is very responsive (limited testing results.) Likely due to 2/3 of the os being cached to ram, things like drawing windows and repetitive function calls (call it cache, prefetch whatever). I can see 4gb being the comfortable level for photo editing.

NT4 does have USB support admittedly through 3rd party drivers.
Use the corporate version of XP (VLK edition) they need no activation and if you disable error reporting it will NOT fone home. It will still require validation to use updates.

Vista corporate editions will need to be reactivated every 180 days (reason I removed it)

OSX.... *puts win-sock in mouth and grins.

[JCR]

As a former OS X user, troubleshooter etc. I can say I won't be going back to mac anytime soon.

Although a very good OS, a good piece of hardware and the like.... I still see far more value in buying a dell every year with Winbloat. Strip it down, remove the services, keep it clean, and run as much software onit that is available for a Mac and it runs excellent. Fill it with garbage freeware, stupid themes, top heavy services that are uneccessary only to fuel processor upgrades.

Most people that have problems with Windows don't know how to run it skinny and strealined. Remember that sentence started with "most" NOT all.

Windows is what you make of it. Mac makes it for you.


Go directly to the top of the class!

[asabet]

As a former OS X user, troubleshooter etc. I can say I won't be going back to mac anytime soon.

Although a very good OS, a good piece of hardware and the like.... I still see far more value in buying a dell every year with Winbloat. Strip it down, remove the services, keep it clean, and run as much software onit that is available for a Mac and it runs excellent. Fill it with garbage freeware, stupid themes, top heavy services that are uneccessary only to fuel processor upgrades.

Most people that have problems with Windows don't know how to run it skinny and strealined. Remember that sentence started with "most" NOT all.

Windows is what you make of it. Mac makes it for you.

One nice thing about Macs, besides their looking better, is that because there is such a limited set of hardware, software doesn't have to be written to accomodate so many possible configs. Also, there is less concern for backwards compatibility, which frees developers from bloat.

All that said, I like Vista. So much so that I occasionally run it on my Mac :lol:. I enjoy using a skinny/streamlined version of XP as well. Used to keep a couple XP boxes around. Now I just change the face of my Mac. OS X now, XP or Vista later. They're all good! If only Vista Ultimate weren't so expensive, I'd put it on my other Macs as well.

[critofur]

Finally got to install the final version of Windows Vista tonight and I'm well impressed. Way way smoother and faster than the earlier beta versions...
And I bet it's ALMOST as fast as XP? Seems like MS is overcharging for less performance.

Soon as I saw the rediculous price for Vista "Ultimate" (who wants a stripped down version?!?) I decided rather than upgrade my XP systems to the next MS OS, it would be time to switch to Linux.
Vista corporate editions will need to be reactivated every 180 days (reason I removed it)
Holy crap that's lame!

[Pete]

And I bet it's ALMOST as fast as XP? Seems like MS is overcharging for less performance.

Better than XP in almost every respect. I can't think of many things that I miss in XP. Except maybe the cascading start menu in XP. but then again, I don't use that many of my applications, so just pinning the most used ones to the main start menu suits me very well on a day to day basis.

Do I miss XP?

No.

[dougxt]

well, my wife bought a new laptop that came with vista so I've been playing with it a bit.
there's nothing there to make me want to switch from xp. it's not faster, not by a long shot. all the doodads and addons are kind of useless to me since I have programs to do most of those things I've been using for years.
if you're a newcomer to computers, vista would probably be useful. for me, all I want is a stable os that will run all my programs and games. xp pro works for me for now.

[critofur]

Better than XP in almost every respect. I can't think of many things that I miss in XP. Except maybe the cascading start menu in XP. but then again, I don't use that many of my applications, so just pinning the most used ones to the main start menu suits me very well on a day to day basis.

Do I miss XP?

No.
Better driver support: XP
Less memory required: XP
Better price: XP
Faster 3D Games: XP
Less nasty DRM: XP
Not having to have that ugly Vista Start Button: XP
Less "Activation" annoyance: XP

Until at least one Service Pack has been released, I think any Microsoft OS should really be considered a Beta and not recomended to the general public.

Once Vista has been out for another 6 months to a year, and IF I can get Ultimate for under $100 then I'll upgrade. Otherwise, either XP or Linux are far more appealing. Particularly considering I have about 7 PCs at home.

[Vinni]

Vista is an expensive memory hog. Besides the (stolen) new GUI I don't see any new improvements, just losses like driver support and freedom over your own software and data.

[Mario.]

Better driver support: XP
Less memory required: XP
Better price: XP
Faster 3D Games: XP
Less nasty DRM: XP
Not having to have that ugly Vista Start Button: XP
Less "Activation" annoyance: XP

Until at least one Service Pack has been released, I think any Microsoft OS should really be considered a Beta and not recomended to the general public.

Once Vista has been out for another 6 months to a year, and IF I can get Ultimate for under $100 then I'll upgrade. Otherwise, either XP or Linux are far more appealing. Particularly considering I have about 7 PCs at home.

You should just head back and run Windows 95 or even 3.1 for that matter - less RAM usage. Less activation annoyances than XP. And everything else. :)

[cosworth]

Unsued ram is wasted ram. Vista adjusts to suit the app.

[EnronRocks]

I have been running Vista since it came out, and I have to say. Driver support is a lie, software support is a lie, and the security windows can be turned off. I have found one driver that does not work, and its for a OLD USB printer that should be shot. I have also found once piece of software that does not work, and that is Starcraft.

I love it, and I am running 3 gigs of ram. So Memory use is not really a big problem.

[coreypolis]

vista is the first OS that MS didn't require their own employees to install. Take that for what its worth. Here is MS country even their own employees think its a joke thus far. And thats why we are pretty much forced to switch platforms. You can't get a decent laptop with xp anymore and we need a new laptop.

[cosworth]

Had my first vista issue today. On a whim I wanted to update my cube mp3 player firmware, just for kicks. The year old (USB) firmware updater from this hard to understand Korean website didn't work. Boo hoo. Booted up the wife's old XP rot box and did it.

Pales in comparison to the issues I had when OS X came out. How some people forget that fiasco.

[In2Photos]

vista is the first OS that MS didn't require their own employees to install. Take that for what its worth. Here is MS country even their own employees think its a joke thus far. And thats why we are pretty much forced to switch platforms. You can't get a decent laptop with xp anymore and we need a new laptop.
Corey, you can still buy XP seperately you know.;)

[cosworth]

Corey, order a dell and ask them to rebate you on vista and return the backup disk. Wipe the box and use your old XP install CD.That is legal as long as you wipe whatever the XP disk was powering.

Dell has refunded OS images for people that want an alternative. They're workign hard to do linux and it's only a matter of time.

Now if CS3 for Linux came out...gimp is well.. gimped.

[Lord_Malone]

Windows Vista is fun! Seriously. I like it.

[capturedbymike]

I really like Vista also. I am trying to figure out where all the problems are at. Other than my 30D not working up until last week, I have had zero problems with Vista. I spend about 6 hours a day on my Vista laptop for both police apps and photo apps and have had zero problems.

[EnronRocks]

I love the new Search deal built into the start menu. It makes searching for folders faster, not only that I can save previous searches and such.

[neil_r]

I love the new Search deal built into the start menu.
In that case say thank you to Mr Mac ;-)

[EnronRocks]

In that case say thank you to Mr Mac ;-)

Really? Macintosh is dead to me. So it does not matter. A lot of things can be traced back to one and the other, but the thing is.... Microsoft owns the market, which means more people use it, which makes Microsoft more money, which rubs its success more and more in good ole Steve's face, which makes him create those propaganda ads you see on TV. I love the business industry.

[Stavhp]

search, no thats Microsoft allright
on a mac its on hte top RIGHT, with a vista is on hte bottom LEFT, see, totally different
and hte gadgets vista has? copy of widgets :D
And lets not even go into the interface

[jezebelus]

Peple please give up with this Vista crap. Can't you realise Microsoft is unable to make any quality product

[blonde]

Peple please give up with this Vista crap. Can't you realise Microsoft is unable to make any quality product

yeah, microsoft office is crap which is why it isn't the standard for business applications, oh wait a second...

how about you give it up and realize that every system has its problems :rolleyes:

[cosworth]

Vista's backup image is a great built in backup app. It's loaded with very useful stuff.

Mac interface? Ha! Ever used a Zerox machine before? ;)

[Pekka]

Peple please give up with this Vista crap. Can't you realise Microsoft is unable to make any quality product

This is pretty incredible. Why do people take it so personally if other choose brand X and even more: like it?

Microsoft products are used in majority of computers in the world, if they were crap they would not be so popular. They keep getting better every year, Vista has lots of stuff under the hood that makes software industry drool. I do not love Microsoft or Gates, and they do make mistakes. But at the same time I have worked with PC's since 286's and I see no reason to change, every generation of Windows has been better. I really dislike Mac users' ideology pushing and constant evangelism (like jumping into every thread about PC stuff) - I do not want to join a religion when I buy a computer, I see PC as more individual, a personal choice.

If Mac OS was available for very PC then I might try it out. But I fear that when Mac OS is done so that it works of every PC it will see the same problems Microsoft has fought and mostly solved during the years. The hardware configurations are endless.

[Pete]

Well said, Pekka. Thank you.

Yes, Microsoft have the monopoly, but they've not got there through making bad software. They might well have done more than just about any other company worldwide to provide a harmonious, workable framework for communication and business.

[Kadath]

http://www.johnringo.com/Abyss/OMFG.asp

[Jon]

vista is the first OS that MS didn't require their own employees to install. Take that for what its worth. Here is MS country even their own employees think its a joke thus far. And thats why we are pretty much forced to switch platforms. You can't get a decent laptop with xp anymore and we need a new laptop.Buy it with a pathetic hard drive and get the big one you need at NewEgg along with an OEM copy of XP.

[neil_r]

This is pretty incredible. Why do people take it so personally if other choose brand X and even more: like it?

Windows V OSX, well I guess I am just a floozie, I use both and recommend neither.. :-)

[coreypolis]

Buy it with a pathetic hard drive and get the big one you need at NewEgg along with an OEM copy of XP.
not really the point, plus function keys probably won't work

MS shot itself in the foot, and theres decent competition. bye bye PC

[Control Group]

not really the point, plus function keys probably won't work

MS shot itself in the foot, and theres decent competition. bye bye PC

You're kidding, right? The number of existing Exchange servers alone will keep Windows in the business marketplace for a long time. Not to mention there hasn't been a release of IE for the Mac since version 5, and the vast majority of web sites are still written for IE. And that's not touching SQL Server or the installed base of Office.

Are there OSX replacements for MOM, SMS, or Sharepoint? Can you buy a DL580 with an OSX image on it?

Not to mention the incredibly vast array of business software that only exists for Windows. Engagement and GoFileRoom are the de facto standards for paperless in the accounting industry (as an example, since I work for an accounting firm), and they're Windows-only. As another example, one of my soon-to-be brothers-in-law had to sell his Mac and buy a Windows box: his law school doesn't support OSX for various classroom-related activities.

I just don't see the Mac gaining any traction in the enterprise in the near term (3-5 years). Inertia, if nothing else, will prevent it (just think about how much COBOL is still out there!). And where the business desktop leads, the home desktop follows, because a lot of people want portability between their work PCs and their home PCs.

Obviously, I won't begin to predict where the industry will be in another 10+ years, but it's way, way too early to be saying "bye bye PC."

[coreypolis]

You're kidding, right? The number of existing Exchange servers alone will keep Windows in the business marketplace for a long time. Not to mention there hasn't been a release of IE for the Mac since version 5, and the vast majority of web sites are still written for IE. And that's not touching SQL Server or the installed base of Office.

Are there OSX replacements for MOM, SMS, or Sharepoint? Can you buy a DL580 with an OSX image on it?

Not to mention the incredibly vast array of business software that only exists for Windows. Engagement and GoFileRoom are the de facto standards for paperless in the accounting industry (as an example, since I work for an accounting firm), and they're Windows-only. As another example, one of my soon-to-be brothers-in-law had to sell his Mac and buy a Windows box: his law school doesn't support OSX for various classroom-related activities.

I just don't see the Mac gaining any traction in the enterprise in the near term (3-5 years). Inertia, if nothing else, will prevent it (just think about how much COBOL is still out there!). And where the business desktop leads, the home desktop follows, because a lot of people want portability between their work PCs and their home PCs.

Obviously, I won't begin to predict where the industry will be in another 10+ years, but it's way, way too early to be saying "bye bye PC."
I didn't say MS was going out of business, just out of my home ;)

I don't need anything you listed, I'm sure there will continue to be hundreds of millions of "satisifed" customers, I'm just no longer one of them

[cosworth]

I don't need anything you listed

Nearly every single business you touch in a day uses Miscrosoft software at some point in their structure. Banks, businesses, individuals, corporations.

%95 of the business world's cubicle sheep use it. You're life literally depends on Microsoft to keep supply chains moving. If you could magically erase all Microsoft software al a Q, the world would be plunged into turmoil.

This site would stop working for one. The impact of such a black hole would be worse than almost any disaster you could hurl at the planet.

[Control Group]

I didn't say MS was going out of business, just out of my home ;)

I don't need anything you listed, I'm sure there will continue to be hundreds of millions of "satisifed" customers, I'm just no longer one of them

Ah - my bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought you meant "bye bye PC" in the world at large, and I couldn't help replying.

Apparently, I hang out on too many forums populated exclusively by rabid zealots, so it didn't strike me as unbelievable someone would make that claim.

Again, sorry, I completely missed what you were saying. Obviously you can go completely non-MS for yourself (and there are plenty of compelling reasons to do so).

[coreypolis]

Nearly every single business you touch in a day uses Miscrosoft software at some point in their structure. Banks, businesses, individuals, corporations.

%95 of the business world's cubicle sheep use it. You're life literally depends on Microsoft to keep supply chains moving. If you could magically erase all Microsoft software al a Q, the world would be plunged into turmoil.

This site would stop working for one. The impact of such a black hole would be worse than almost any disaster you could hurl at the planet.
thats great Jason, however none of that impacts my decision on what platform to store files and do PPing

[coreypolis]

Ah - my bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought you meant "bye bye PC" in the world at large, and I couldn't help replying.

Apparently, I hang out on too many forums populated exclusively by rabid zealots, so it didn't strike me as unbelievable someone would make that claim.

Again, sorry, I completely missed what you were saying. Obviously you can go completely non-MS for yourself (and there are plenty of compelling reasons to do so).
I live in MS country, so its obvious there are places for it everywhere, just not in my home anymore. Which is too bad, I really like building my own systems, but the vista headaches just aren't worth it

[cosworth]

When OS X came out, nearly the only thing that ran on it was what came with the OS. Vista has been a little more forgiving in that respect...

So let's get back on topic instead fo the usual Coke/Pepsi crap.

[Belmondo]

I bought a new PC for work that came loaded with Vista. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't have any of the problems I had when I tried to upgrade the old system to Vista.

I'm still not sure why I even want it. I was getting along fine with XP.

Love my Mac, too, but you won't suck me into any arguments about which is better. There is no definitive answer to that, and we've wasted enough of Pekka's bandwidth engaging in that irreconsilable debate over the years. Suffice it to say, whichever system is best for you is the one you should buy. Beyond that, you're just as well off debating the following:
boxers or briefs
Ford vs. Chevvie
Canon vs. Nikon (okay, that one you can debate)
Republican vs. Democrat (will get you banned)
Ketchup vs. mustard
Coke vs. Pepsi
Fox News vs. CNN (could get you banned)
Soccer vs. Football (some of you actually believe soccer is football---silly people)
American beer vs.------Okay, anything is better.
Blondes vs. brunettes. Ooops. Never mind that one. My wife just told me blondes are better. She should know.
And so forth.

[Wsman2]

FYI.

According to this story (http://apcmag.com/5835/vendors_in_no_rush_to_ditch_xp_for_vista), new PC's in 2008 will only come with Vista.

[capturedbymike]

Five or six years from now this forum will be filled with the same comments about the New Microsoft OS and how nobody is upgrading from Vista. This same topic comes up everytime a new OS comes out.

I for one like Vista and have had no problems, other than waiting for the 30D drivers that Canon waited to develop until after the release of Vista (Canons fault, not MS). Most of the issues I have seen have been driver issues and those are individual product issues not MS issues. I have a 486 computer at the house I use to program computers and it has Windows 3.1 -- stop and look at the differenct between that computer and todays computers and then tell me how terrible Vista is.

I have had no problems with it but I am well aware there are problems for some people. These will be fixed in service packs just like Windows XP has been adn 5 years from now, we can all have the same discussion.

Heck, I may have reached 1000 posts by then............

[coreypolis]

FYI.

According to this story (http://apcmag.com/5835/vendors_in_no_rush_to_ditch_xp_for_vista), new PC's in 2008 will only come with Vista.
2008? you already have to go out of your way to try and get XP still, now :o

[Belmondo]

Five or six years from now this forum will be filled with the same comments about the New Microsoft OS and how nobody is upgrading from Vista. This same topic comes up everytime a new OS comes out.

I for one like Vista and have had no problems, other than waiting for the 30D drivers that Canon waited to develop until after the release of Vista (Canons fault, not MS). Most of the issues I have seen have been driver issues and those are individual product issues not MS issues. I have a 486 computer at the house I use to program computers and it has Windows 3.1 -- stop and look at the differenct between that computer and todays computers and then tell me how terrible Vista is.

I have had no problems with it but I am well aware there are problems for some people. These will be fixed in service packs just like Windows XP has been adn 5 years from now, we can all have the same discussion.

Heck, I may have reached 1000 posts by then............I bought a new computer that has Vista installed, and it seems okay. There have been a couple little strange things, but generally trouble-free.

Love your avatar.

[adam*]

I bought a new PC for work that came loaded with Vista. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't have any of the problems I had when I tried to upgrade the old system to Vista.

I'm still not sure why I even want it. I was getting along fine with XP.

Love my Mac, too, but you won't suck me into any arguments about which is better. There is no definitive answer to that, and we've wasted enough of Pekka's bandwidth engaging in that irreconsilable debate over the years. Suffice it to say, whichever system is best for you is the one you should buy. Beyond that, you're just as well off debating the following:
boxers or briefs
Ford vs. Chevvie
Canon vs. Nikon (okay, that one you can debate)
Republican vs. Democrat (will get you banned)
Ketchup vs. mustard
Coke vs. Pepsi
Fox News vs. CNN (could get you banned)
Soccer vs. Football (some of you actually believe soccer is football---silly people)
American beer vs.------Okay, anything is better.
Blondes vs. brunettes. Ooops. Never mind that one. My wife just told me blondes are better. She should know.
And so forth.

That's not even an argument! Football pre-dates American Football by a good distance. Argument solved :)

[In2Photos]

That's not even an argument! Football pre-dates American Football by a good distance. Argument solved :)
And Film pre-dates Digital. Want to go down that road?;)

[Pete]

*cough* *splutter*

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305391

[In2Photos]

*cough* *splutter*

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305391
WOW! Lots of security updates there.:)

[Pete]

My favourite was

Login Window

CVE-ID: CVE-2007-0739

Available for: Mac OS X v10.4.9, Mac OS X Server v10.4.9

Impact: The loginwindow authentication dialog may be bypassed

Description: Under certain conditions, the software update window may appear beneath the Login Window. This could allow a person with physical access to the system to log in without authentication. This update addresses the issue by only running scheduled tasks after the user login. This issue does not affect systems prior to Mac OS X v10.4.

[MichaelAlan_Photo]

Thanks but no thanks about Vista... I will get a copy when my work gets one.

Which one of the Vista OS systems are you running? Home, Business, Ultimate, etc...

Which one would you all recommend? I heard that Home is Windows XP Service Pack 3 Essentially...

[Pete]

I'm running Ultimate. But that's because I got it through a Microsoft agreement at work.

As for which one you should go for. Just take a look on the Microsoft site and choose what features you're most likely to use and weight those up against the cost.

Home is good enough for most home users, probably more lightweight than Ultimate as well.

[Poindexter]

I upgraded to Vista Home 32 bit a few weeks ago - I love it! The only thing I'm upset about is NVidia not moving faster with solid SLi drivers (not Microsoft's fault), but other than that everything else works perfectly for me.....and faster!

I'm really looking forward to software manufacturers taking advantage of the new graphics engines - I imagine a CS4 that could graphically blow our socks off! Of course, we're looking at another two years down the road at least.

[Croasdail]

I think it is funny that Dell has had to reintroduce offerings with XP again because of high customer demand for XP over Vista. Problem for Microsoft is XP works pretty good - not perfect - but not all that painful. It is hard to justify buying new stuff when machines built 3 years ago still do pretty much what 98% of people want them to do. There is no compelling reason to upgrade - no killer app driving it. I use mac OS and XP. Until one of my machines dies, I have no plans of changing either. Nothing against Vista, just no reason to spend a couple hundred for an operating system when what i have now still works.

[Belmondo]

I finally had to re-format the drive on my PC; none of the normal fixes worked. I've re-installed Vista, and will see what happens. In the meantime, I've bought a new PC with Vista pre-installed, and everything is going fine with that.

Apparently there was some sort of issue the arose from the upgrade, and it eventually killed the computer. The tech assures me there's nothing wrong with it, but there were some driver problems of some sort. Mercifully, we were able to salvage all the iimportant files.

[Pete]

Yeah... If drivers are badly written, that'll stuff ya.

A bit odd that the upgrade process didn't identify the issue though, it should have done. Guess it can't catch everything.

[Belmondo]

Yeah... If drivers are badly written, that'll stuff ya.

A bit odd that the upgrade process didn't identify the issue though, it should have done. Guess it can't catch everything.Well, it's all water under the bridge. Evereything is fine now, and I'll never have another computer problem as long as I live. (suggesting a very short life span:rolleyes::lol:).

[Pete]

Your system will remain stable for the lifetime of the system.

You can be sure of it...!

[capturedbymike]

Love your avatar.

Thanks! You can Google the Brooks CSX train derailment and see where I took that at. This was the first train to go back thru after they put new tracks down. It was one of, if not, the worst derailment CSX has had in terms of hazmat and amount of cars and cleanup. It happened in January, the amazingly got the tracks fixed in three days, but still have a huge mess over there.

I got stuck working there all day of the derailment and then worked for CSX for two months afterwards. I am sure I will have some terminal illness from all the hazardous materials someday!