Reluctance to pay for services

[Jay12329]

This year i've been provding photographs FOC in exchange for media access for a race team. For next season they are stepping up to national level and have asked me to join the team to do all there photography and media work.
I've asked for £250 a round to cover my costs (i'm not sure it will even do this!) but the team seam to think this is a lot. Am I asking too much for photography and media reports?
Thanks for your advice.
J

[ssim]

Other than their level of participation, what has changed. Is there more travel per event, more events, etc. What were your costs per event this year and what are the costs going to be next year?

I hate to say it but you are the maker of your own demise, imo. You set the bar so low the only way it could go lower is if you paid them to allow you to shoot. You set an expectation on their part that you were going to be an inexpensive photographer. I have no idea when they do their yearly budgets for the teams but what if it is done already and they assumed that you would just continue to do this for free (the media pass is only a value to you).

When I have had a client that has objected to the charges then I try to quantify why I am charging what I do. I give them relative fees by other persons in the same field. I don't compare pricing for someone doing portraits when it is a commercial job in the field. I will try and give them fees higher and lower than mine. I outline any direct operating costs that are associated with it and then allude to the normal fixed costs without going into detail.

I have no idea what the time commitment is per event that you are talking about. Do you actually know what the going rate would be for someone else?

[IndyJeff]

Jay one thing you will findout, if you haven't already, race teams are notoriously cheap. They want all the images but, it isn't worth paying for. Now not every team is like that, some will pay but will try to get you down in price.

Like ssim said, you have basically layed the ground work for doing it for free and at this point getting paid is going to be hard to do. Let this be a lesson and try to find a team who is willing to pay you. Better yet, try to find two or three teams who would be willing to chip in and pay you. Less money for them and you might get paid for your work. The current team is pretty much a write off in my book now, I can't see them ponying up any money for future work. Don't burn your bridge there tho, just explain that it cost you too much to go to the tracks and you need to make a profit, let alone pay for the expenses.

[vwpilot]

£250 is dirt cheap to charge a team for all their PR and race photos for a pro team. Even that amount you quoted is low and as you even said, might not be enough to even cover your travel expenses. If they are not willing to pay that, you need to drop them like a bad habit.

However, like some said, you made your bed by giving stuff away to begin with, now your finding out what its like to lie in it. You've already established that your photos are worth nothing more than a press pass, why should they ever pay more.

All you can do at this point is to try to talk to them and convince them that the value of our work is worth something. What will they do for photos if you dont do it? I'd say tell them to shop around and see if they can find someone cheaper, when they cant find anyone qualified that are willing to work for that, they may return.

[aliflack]

The best thing I think you can do is explain the rationale for why £250 would be needed to cover costs.

Break it down into areas like fixed vs. variable costs (e.g. travel to a venue is fixed, but once you're there, the longer you stay the more pics you take and therefore your variable costs go up - and the overall cost per pic comes down) or into travel, accomodation, substinence, equipment wear &tear, consumables etc.

Use this as the basis for your negotiation with the team - it will make you more credible (rather than giving the appearance that the £250 figure could just have been plucked out of the air) and give a structure to any discussions.

You could also point out the potential cost to them of getting a full-time photog charging at least £20 per hourand work out what a great deal they're getting from you!

Whatever happens, kudos for getting out there and getting some great experience. I would second the advice to consider getting work with another team (and potentially use this as a lever with your current team). Good luck.

[Jon, The Elder]

One more classic example of misplaced value on competent work. You are now good enough to get their interest but not good enough to have them commit to using you at even a very reduced price.
Seek another team, this time armed with a portfolio of sorts, and a bit more wisdom on how things work.
Your humility did nothing to enhance yourself in the eyes of the management. They feel, and rightly so, that they control you and your activities.
The best you can hope for is a firm bid to them, but make contingecy plans for their competitors.
This falls in the catagory of "hard-learned-lessons".
As I have said many times, actual photography is only 20% of the business.

[Jay12329]

Thanks for your imput.
I'm in the process of lineing up a meeting face to face rarther than playing e-mail tennis.
Ill use the hints given and hopefully convince the team they still like me!
J

[IndyJeff]

Be like a good attorney in this meeting, know the answers to the questions your going to ask.

If I knew that the team members all were paid for each weekend, I would ask does the rest of the team work witout compensation too? If they are you want them to consider you as a team member and it is only fair that you too, be compensated for your time.