G7 RAW inquiry

[GPete]

Well a few days ago I contacted Canon and was curious to see 'bout G7RAW, knowing
I'd most likely get this answer but it doesn't hurt to ask and here was the
response i got
Thank you for your E-mail inquiry regarding your PowerShot G7.
At this time there is no firmware to allow RAW image capture for the PowerShot G7. There is currently no plan to introduce this feature. However, I will note your feedback in regards to your interest in this feature.

A shutterbug friend of mine made a great point (fact) on this topic stating that with 10mp RAW files, the camera would need a large and very fast buffer or else the camera is going to slow to a crawl in saving stuff (this is what adds cost to the dSLR, fast buffer RAM)

Still would be somewhat nice to have.
I have between 1to2sec. wait with my G6RAW thats with a with a fast CFcard, I'd be willing to wait a little longer as @ times Im just sitting shooting still life.
Perhaps I should start a petition and see how many "G" people are interested in G7RAW icapture
hmm?!;)
G7's jpeg still solid enough:cool:

Cheers :)

[JaGWiRE]

Go for it. I'm about to buy a LMC-DX2 unless very soon something happens, because as much as I love every feature of the G7 from the long zoom to the hot shoe flash, I will just not buy a camera that doesn't have raw. Raw is my workflow, it is my thing, I need it, and I will not go without it. In the other thread there was a link to a thread on another forum (dpreview I believe) and some people asked Canon about it too and they said it isn't happening.

[RafaPolit]

Perhaps I should start a petition and see how many "G" people are interested in G7RAW icapture
hmm?

well, you could always start those petitions with the people that answered the survey I made about RAW usage a while ago. I wrote to canon with the findings and they answered pretty much the same thing you have there, their complete answer is quoted at the end of the long thread, here's the link:

RAW Frecuency of use ;)

Rafa Polit Jr.

[JaGWiRE]

well, you could always start those petitions with the people that answered the survey I made about RAW usage a while ago. I wrote to canon with the findings and they answered pretty much the same thing you have there, their complete answer is quoted at the end of the long thread, here's the link:

RAW Frecuency of use ;)

Rafa Polit Jr.

Sounds like they give a crap less, am I the only one who thinks this? Any chance you guys think it is even possible they would put it in a firmware update? I'd hate to buy the Panasonic and find out the G7 supports raw a week later :(.

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have just read the review on the G7 in this weeks Amateur Photographer.
They were not keen on it at all, when seen in the light as a pro type camera in the tradition of the other G cameras.
The market position has been moved to the strictly point and shoot family, with no concessions to Pro or advanced users.
They were also scathing about it's noise levels at all settings, whilst 10M pixels are capable of making well detailed A3 prints, the noise effectively restricts this to under A4.
Adding Raw would only be a marginal help, as the noise would always outweigh other factors.

[puttick]

I think G7 RAW would show a lot of noise from the 10MP sensor. Digic III jpeg has tamed this to an acceptable level.

The real issue is whether you see this as a primary camera or a backup to a dSLR. If the former, you have a problem. If the latter, it is (almost) perfect!

Nigel

[JaGWiRE]

I think G7 RAW would show a lot of noise from the 10MP sensor. Digic III jpeg has tamed this to an acceptable level.

The real issue is whether you see this as a primary camera or a backup to a dSLR. If the former, you have a problem. If the latter, it is (almost) perfect!

Nigel

I'd use it as a walk around camera to throw in my pocket and have on me at all times when I go out and can't take a huge SLR with and want to keep something with me to capture stuff I just see happening. So I'd be using it to snap crap shots of people at a get together or something, but I'd also be using it for more serious stuff when I go out and just want the point and shoot in my pocket. That is why I want raw.

[puttick]

Yes, I understand and have the same concerns - as a long time dSLR RAW user myself ... BUT all cameras are ultimately a compromise. As a backup / walkaround to my 350d I had an S70 which had RAW, and found I virtually never used that function on that camera. So I don't mind it being absent from the G7, as the IQ even in jpeg is absolutely stunning for such a small camera. Sure, I would like it with RAW, but I suspect the output would be too noisy. Perhaps the G8 will get there - RAW files and low noise! At which time I will happily sell my G7 or pass it on to one of my kids. Meantime, there is little if any competition. These things are still in development, far from maturity, and we need to keep updating if we demand the "ulimate" at any point in time. I think you'd be happy with a G7 even without RAW.

[JaGWiRE]

Yes, I understand and have the same concerns - as a long time dSLR RAW user myself ... BUT all cameras are ultimately a compromise. As a backup / walkaround to my 350d I had an S70 which had RAW, and found I virtually never used that function on that camera. So I don't mind it being absent from the G7, as the IQ even in jpeg is absolutely stunning for such a small camera. Sure, I would like it with RAW, but I suspect the output would be too noisy. Perhaps the G8 will get there - RAW files and low noise! At which time I will happily sell my G7 or pass it on to one of my kids. Meantime, there is little if any competition. These things are still in development, far from maturity, and we need to keep updating if we demand the "ulimate" at any point in time. I think you'd be happy with a G7 even without RAW.
Well I think I'll go with the Panasonic. Raw is part of my workflow, and I love being able to work with raw files, it is much easier for me then jpeg files.

[canonphotog]

I have just read the review on the G7 in this weeks Amateur Photographer.
They were not keen on it at all, when seen in the light as a pro type camera in the tradition of the other G cameras.
The market position has been moved to the strictly point and shoot family, with no concessions to Pro or advanced users.
They were also scathing about it's noise levels at all settings, whilst 10M pixels are capable of making well detailed A3 prints, the noise effectively restricts this to under A4.
Adding Raw would only be a marginal help, as the noise would always outweigh other factors.

I bought the G3 as my first Canon digital strictly so I could see whether or not I could make use of Canon's various settings. I personally prefer RAW files to work with for the sake of post-processing, however, when I needed a quick picture of something to email, I used the jpeg settings.

In the years since the G3 and 10D were introduced I would suspect that most Pro and advanced users have already moved on up to 20D, 30D, 5D and 1D Series bodies.

I have no doubts that the engineers at Canon could add RAW capture and also increase your buffer speed on the G7.

But I would expect they are told what to design and how to implement it based on marketing studies and fiscal projections.

IMO Canon would like to drive their G series fans into the world of DSLR's where there is more money to be made selling DSLR accessories.

Ken

[canonphotog]

Well I think I'll go with the Panasonic. Raw is part of my workflow, and I love being able to work with raw files, it is much easier for me then jpeg files.

So..., think about buying a G6 if you don't already have one., or look even farther back.

My G3 (4mp) still produces excellent results and..., it uses the same batteries as the 10D, 20D, 30D, 5D. Accepts Canon EX speedlites (limited on some usability), also uses CF cards (don't know what panasonic uses), has a wireless remote that came with it.

Why support two different systems if you don't have to?

Before I'd break up that compatibility, I'd definitely look to older G series bodies for RAW support.

Ken

[JaGWiRE]

So..., think about buying a G6 if you don't already have one., or look even farther back.

My G3 (4mp) still produces excellent results and..., it uses the same batteries as the 10D, 20D, 30D, 5D. Accepts Canon EX speedlites (limited on some usability), also uses CF cards (don't know what panasonic uses), has a wireless remote that came with it.

Why support two different systems if you don't have to?

Before I'd break up that compatibility, I'd definitely look to older G series bodies for RAW support.

Ken
Yeah, I was considering the G6, but it has awful raw support and people were able to steer me away from it.

[Croasdail]

I was actually going through my magazines getting ready to toss a bunch when I notice the November Pop Photo has a review on the Panasonic. Now it is hardly the most critical magazine, but they actually gave the Panasonic an Ok on it's noise at ISO 400. I know there are plenty out there also that didn't like it's high ISO noise levels, but Pop Photo thought it workable. I just really really want to preserve shadow detail as much as possible, and if shooting low ISO and long exposures is the way to do that... I will do it. I am leaning Panasonic/Leica, but would love to get my grubby little paws on a g7 before I decide. A used g6 is also interesting, but at $350, it is a bit much for a used p/s for me. Fortunately I don't have to decide anytime soon.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yeah, I was considering the G6, but it has awful raw support and people were able to steer me away from it.

photoshop raw works very well with a G6 I use it all the time.
But then I dont use any Canon software for anything.

[JaGWiRE]

photoshop raw works very well with a G6 I use it all the time.
But then I dont use any Canon software for anything.

I have no idea how I was able to type that, my mistake. I must had mean't noise among some other things the older cameras had issues with.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Noise is a problem with all small sensors... and will continue to be so.
The only hope is for there to be a break through in sensor design.

all they do now is find better ways to repress the existing noise, not actually get rid of it.
That is why Raw would not help on a G7.

To soy the pansonic noise is ok depend on two factors, the size of it's sensor and the audience you are talking to. Some don't mind the noise sharpness trade off, because they only want small prints.

[JaGWiRE]

Noise is a problem with all small sensors... and will continue to be so.
The only hope is for there to be a break through in sensor design.

all they do now is find better ways to repress the existing noise, not actually get rid of it.
That is why Raw would not help on a G7.

To soy the pansonic noise is ok depend on two factors, the size of it's sensor and the audience you are talking to. Some don't mind the noise sharpness trade off, because they only want small prints.
Yeah, noise reduction has got better, although the Panasonic does have pretty poor noise reduction. The next biggest problem of the G6 for me was size. I created a therad and everybody pretty much said it's not pocket size.

[asabet]

I think our energy is better spent trying to convince the hackers to enable this feature. I've yet to see a petition help in such a case.