Time for a new CPU, any comments? Ideas? Let 'em fly.

[GenEOS]

Dell Dimension 8300 Series:
Pentium® 4 Processor with HT Technology 3GHz w/800MHz ,
Windows® XP Home Edition,
1GB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz (2x512M) ,
120GB Serial ATA Hard Drive, 7200RPM,
2nd Hard Drive: 120GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) ,
16x DVD-ROM Drive
8x DVD+RW Drive ,
Video Card: New 128MB DDR GeForce FX 5200 Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy™2 (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 capability
Speakers: Dell A425 Speakers w/Subwoofer A425 [313-2134] 18
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem 56KWS [313-1314] 14
Network Interface: Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0412] 13
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year At-Home Service

$1757 before a $150 mail-in rebate

What do you guys think?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sounds pretty peppy to me :)

...and were i ever to actually buy a PC .. I would surely get a Dell Dude!

[gsmx2]

That will cook.

I wanna say that it looks more light a game playing machine than a photo editing machine, but I have almost the same system and never play games, so GO FOR IT. I'm very pleases with my 128 video card and GIG of memory.

gsm x2

[arthurb]

Sounds like overkill to me.

Did you old one blow up?

If you are tech savy, you could put a new mother board in your existing machine for around $300-500 and get the same results,,, Unless your old one is real old, the case, powersupply, and drives will all work with the new mother board.

Take a look at http://www.pricewatch.com

Good Luck!

[Jon Borcik]

The only thing I would add is Window XP Professional instead of the home addition. It adds a lot more functionality for a little more price.

[ilya]

You need a nice big new monitor, don't you?

[GenEOS]

Sounds like overkill to me.

Did you old one blow up?

If you are tech savy, you could put a new mother board in your existing machine for around $300-500 and get the same results,,, Unless your old one is real old, the case, powersupply, and drives will all work with the new mother board.

Take a look at http://www.pricewatch.com

Good Luck!

I am taking the oportunity to replace my complete system and hand the older one down to mom. She is on an ancient system and it is slowing down, even for e-mail. This 500mhz will suit her fine for e-mail. I wish I could put one together myself, but I need a rliable system, and I don't have that kind of skill. I can really appreciate those that can do those things.

It is a bit of overkill, but I am hoping it will last me as long as the 500mhz has. I liked the idea of having twin 120G HDs...and a DVD writer.

What exactly does XP pro buy me? I have XP pro on my laptop and XP home on my desktop. I have not noticed a difference for what I do.

[Belmondo]

This is a really interesting question, especially when it's put to this crowd whose needs are a little different that many other PC owners.

To me, the optimum system for photo editing wouldn't necessarily require a card like the nVidia. I'm told the Matrox is probably better for our purposes. Audigy sound card? What’s that for? A good, fast processor is a must, and lots of RAM is also crucial.

The processor in the Dell system you’re considering is certainly adequate, and regardless of the AMD Athlon hype, P4 is certainly the way to go on a high-end system. Dual hard drives is also very cool.

It all sounds good, although it sounds like you have thoughts of doing more than just image editing with a system like that.

Since my 70-200 lens from Dell is supposed to delivered tomorrow, they’re gradually working their way back into my good graces.

Good luck,


Tom

[Pekka]

What exactly does XP pro buy me? I have XP pro on my laptop and XP home on my desktop. I have not noticed a difference for what I do.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/choosing2.asp

[chris.bailey]

Nice system but as an alternative

http://us.shuttle.com/specs2.asp?pro_id=408

are REALLY easy to put together, would site on your desk rather than under it, are almost silent in operation and have a card reader built into the front. It also has USB 2 and a pair of firewire ports. I just put one together with much the same spec as the Dell you describe for under $1,000 and thats with a DVD re-writer!

[ifurlong]

you know, you could build your own system that will smoke anything from dell for less than that, in fact I just built my own machine this past weekend. But what ever you get, if photography is the main use, get a MATROX vidio card!! they are optimized for 2D rendering as oposed to 3D rendering, any highend store bough computer will have ond of those gaming cards in it which is not what you need.

[ifurlong]

oh yes, also as for as I know XP home will not reconize the hyperthreading, only XPpro, so I dont know why the dont give you pro in that machine

[ifurlong]

!!! I am wrong, XP home does support hyperthreading, it does not support multiple prossesors, sorry

[GenEOS]

Thanks for all the comments.

I would love to build one myself and save bucks, but I am afraid I would in the end spend as much or more on doing that....I suck at that stuff...

I looked on-line this morning while at work. I found out that through our company, I can get the same machine with XP pro and a 3 year warranty (instead of 1 year) for $1465 before the $150 mail in rebate....so basically $1400. I will inquire about the Matrox card, I agree it is better suited, but the savings I am getting are based upon "on-line purchase" I will call and ask if it can be changed and still get all the savings.
What will kill me as a Texas resident is taxes... That will eat up my extra $150 off.

I would love a larger monitor, but I am pretty happy with my 17" ViewSonic. I don't really have room for a 21"...

Thanks for the comment...

[Jim Larson]

Why the second hard drive?

I have found that retrofitting is always cheaper than putting when you purchase. (HD prices just keep going down). Get one drive first, then buy the second one as prices drop and your first one fills up.

Do you really *need* 1 Gig of memory? 512 is probably adequate. When 512 is no longer adequate, putting in a gig down the road will probably be cheaper than 512 today.

Also, the processor is blazing. Can the motherboard keep up? Is that the bottleneck? A slower process (like a 2.8) would probably yield similar performance.

DVD burner: Wave of the future. Go for it. DVD-ROM: Isn't that a bit redundant to the burner?

XP Home: That should be more than adequate.

[dtrayers]

Why the second hard drive?

Do you really *need* 1 Gig of memory? 512 is probably adequate. When 512 is no longer adequate, putting in a gig down the road will probably be cheaper than 512 today.

If you're going to use Photoshop then they recommend that the PS scratch disk be on a separate physical drive from the operating system.

As for RAM, with PS the more the better. 1 Gig should be a starting point.

[figment]

Why the second hard drive?

Do you really *need* 1 Gig of memory? 512 is probably adequate. When 512 is no longer adequate, putting in a gig down the road will probably be cheaper than 512 today.

If you're going to use Photoshop then they recommend that the PS scratch disk be on a separate physical drive from the operating system.

As for RAM, with PS the more the better. 1 Gig should be a starting point.

PS came up and complained about the scratch area being on the same physical drive, but never gave the opertunity to change it. Strange that it would complain but not allow me to reconfigure it in the same dialogue box... :cry:

[dtrayers]

PS came up and complained about the scratch area being on the same physical drive, but never gave the opertunity to change it. Strange that it would complain but not allow me to reconfigure it in the same dialogue box... :cry:

You can pick the scratch disk drive in Edit -> Preferences -> Plug Ins and Scratch Disks.

I have one physical drive but have it partitioned into several logical drives. PS gets one of these drives. I can't remember if nags all the time if you don't at least specify a different logical drive.

[GenEOS]

I think the extra hard drive was about a $130 upgrade.
I hope the mother board is quick enough for the processor.
I inquired about the Matrox card and they said it was not an item they stock. So I may get the cheapest one and replace it later.

I think a Gig is a good starting point. I want to give Photoshop some room to breath. My work flow is super super slow on my system now. I am ready for a little speed.

As for skatch disks. I did notice when I addedd a seperate drive to my current computer, that it increased my photoshop speed a little.

[Vinny454]

The first problem you will run into is when you try to upgrade. You are talking about a proprietary case and mother board which will only accept Dell products in many cases and good luck buying just a new MB from Dell. They also only allow for minimal tweaking in the bios for better performance. I have been in the PC Mfg industry for the last decade I would never buy any of the products I build. If you want a serious machine them find a reputable local shop and individually pick the parts.

Choose a nice sized case with at least a 400W power supply (Enermax, Thermaltake or Antec are very good).
A high end Asus or Abit MB (they will have built on Lan, fire wire, 6.1 audio, serial ATA and Raid available depending on the model). The Sound Blaster Audigy 2 is a nice card, but unless you are into Audio Editing on your PC, it's not worth the price and you will actually be surprised at how good the built on audio is on the above MB's.
1 gig of ram is good but choose high end Dual Channel Ram, like Corsair or Ocz.
Only get the modem if you need it.
Creative labs or Altec Lansing speakers can be picked up cheap and will sound better.
Pick a nice big monitor (19" or 21"). Sony and Viewsonic are very good ones.
Definitely a DVD burner, but I would consider one that burns both -R and +R disks for potential compatibility issues.
Nvidia makes great 3D gaming cards, but may be more video card than you need and you could save a bundle on a better suited card for your needs.

I would suggest 2 hard drives as a must. If price is not an issue, you are better off with 2 80 or 120 Gig HD's as opposed to just 1 120 Gig. When ever possible, the main harddrive should only be used for the operating system and installed software. All other data should go on the second drive.

All of this will be around the same price as the dell, but will put it to shame in performance.

The short and simple answer on the difference's between Win Xp hoe and Pro is networking. You can not connect to a domain server with the home edition. This will not be an issue as you will be using it at home. Just don't confuse the above statement as not being able to create or connect to a network at home. That you can do with the home edition.

I hope this helps you out.

Vince

[photography By Evangelos]

I would wait for a few months if your old system is still working. Windows XP 64 is on the way with in the next few months or so. Also Intel is on the way with their 64 Bit processor. I am gona wait for a few months. I currently have a 3-year-old dell and a new Toshiba lap top witch is getting me by for now just fine. The Dell is a 933P-3 processor with 512 MB of ram and a DVD in the first bay and a new DVD-RW Super drive and it has served me well in three years. I am not over all happy with the Dell Tech support, as I have had a hard time understanding them over the phone there English in India is not so good. I have no loyalty to Dell as they have given American jobs away to give the CEO’S of the company bigger paychecks. Any way best of luck.

[maderito]

GenEOS - Do you have a strategy for transferring/installing your programs, files, programs, browsers links, plug-ins, etc. to the new system?

[RickInHouston]

I've done some researching in Adobe's forum for Photoshop CS on this very same topic. I'm guessing you realize it's the 'darkroom processing' that's the hardest on your computer. It seems this software is fairly well ahead of hardware, even now.

Top o-the-line processor, fast RAM (up to 2 Gig is supposedly what it will utilize), and a decent video card are necessities- from what I have read. A separate hard drive (scratch disc) connected directly to the system, by firewire, or by USB 2.0 would be a big plus.

Rick

[ifurlong]

genEOS, go to B&H for the MATROX card, you know, it is really easy to build your own system these days, I just did this past weekend, if you want I can give you a parts list. You just plug everything together, turn it on, set the BIOS to boot from the dvd drive, restart, then load the operating system as usual! I used an intel motherbard and an intel cpu and everything works very welll

[Yarin]

Wow that is a KILLER system!

Only issue: 16x DVD-ROM Drive 8x DVD+RW Drive... WHY?!

Get a dual format 8x DVD+-RW drive and a separate 52x or whatever CDRW drive.

Personally I find that photoshop eats up an insane amount of memory. OFten times I find myself well over the 1gb mark. I've got 1gb of ram, but could use more. You can always add memory later on for less than what dell sells it for. Good luck!

[CyberDyneSystems]

I allways build my own,. (and in fact I build them for work,. to sell etc..)

...but it is defeinately not for everyone...


With WinXPs installation oddities.. it is a daunting affair when things don't go right the first time,... which is often :)

[Bubber Jones]

You may also want to query local vendors. I can't remember how many systems I've built, but I've got a local vendor that gives me great prices on components. I just tell him what I want and they assemble the system for free!

Can't beat that deal...

[dtrayers]

A separate hard drive (scratch disc) connected directly to the system, by firewire, or by USB 2.0 would be a big plus.

Rick

For a scratch disk, Firewire or USB2.0 won't be nearly fast enough. For reading and writing the saved image files, sure, but not for a scratch disk.

[jkelley]

For all you computer builders out there, can you recommend a specific motherboard for an upgrade? I have an ASUS CUSL2C right now, running windows 98SE. I am thinking about upgrading the OS to XP, and at the same time upgrading the motherboard (with new CPU and memory). I believe I currently have a 300W power supply; would I need to upgrade that as well?

I like ASUS boards and I like the Intel CPUs. Board selection should be based on the assumption that photo editing is the primary use.

Thanks techheads! :)

[Canuck]

2 words: Cray Computer or Silicon Graphics

[Bubber Jones]

2 words: Cray Computer or Silicon Graphics

That'd be 4 or 5 words depending on how youu look at it... :D

[PacAce]

My 2 cents:

Get as barebones a system (Dimension 8300) as you can from Dell loaded with XP Pro. Meaning minimum memory and minimum HD. Get the lowest quality video card since you'll probably want to replace this with some other card not offered by Dell. Don't get a DVD burner from Dell, either. Just opt for the CD burner. You can add all the components that were left out after you get your system since it'll be cheaper to get memory, hard drives, video card and the DVD burner (dual format) from other sources besides Dell.

[PacAce]

A separate hard drive (scratch disc) connected directly to the system, by firewire, or by USB 2.0 would be a big plus.

Rick

For a scratch disk, Firewire or USB2.0 won't be nearly fast enough. For reading and writing the saved image files, sure, but not for a scratch disk.

Dave's right on this one. If you run out of internal bays for hard drives, you're better off taking out the DVD burner and/or the CD burner and putting those in a firewire or USB 2.0 case and leaving the HDs inside.

[arthurb]

I would wait for a few months if your old system is still working. Windows XP 64 is on the way with in the next few months or so. Also Intel is on the way with their 64 Bit processor.

Of all the advice here, this is the worst. Microsoft tends to have problems with the first release of any operating system, and Intel often has problems with the first batches of chips.

Even if both of these products were available tomorrow, they wouldn't be stable for at least a year, and the cost would be at least double, until production caught up with demand.

There is some really good technical advice here. Like;

Try to get a dual format DVD (+ and - ) even if it is a little slower. The reason for this is that the world hasn't standardized on a format yet, and when they do it might be the one you don't have.

Don't use a usb or firewire disk for normal operations. (Its good for backups and moving between systems.)

Good Luck, and make sure you post her and let us know what you decide.

[Canuck]

2 words: Cray Computer or Silicon Graphics

That'd be 4 or 5 words depending on how youu look at it... :D

Yeah, yeah, I was being silly. Those beast cost 6 or more digit numbers!

I hear the Althon 64 rocks! I'm pro Athlon as I have a 1.4GHz here and an XP2200 on the other machine.

Cheers from England,
Canuck

[CyberDyneSystems]

Yeah,. all six of my machines are AMD :)

[Bubber Jones]

Those beast cost 6 or more digit numbers!

Aw, I've got a couple of Indigo 2's that I got for nothing... I wouldn't call then speed demons, or anything though... :wink:

[chris.bailey]

Processor speed is not the major issue with PS (other than may be rendering ops) as long as its fairly decent. What I mean is you wont notice the difference between a P4 2.4 and a 2.9 but an extra 512mb of RAM and a faster disk makes a huge difference. Most modern graphics cards will do the business for PS but I do find my Matrox card more stable and capable of sharper text than the Nvidia based card it replaced.

For my tuppenth I would still build your own from a barebones chassis, have 1Gb of the fastest RAM that system will run with and a pair of Quantum Fireball SATA drives set up to Stripe RAID. Dont overclock anything as you also want plenty of stability. Windows XP is stable and well proven. I would not yet wet my foot with any newer system.

[Vinny454]

photography By Evangelos wrote:
I would wait for a few months if your old system is still working. Windows XP 64 is on the way with in the next few months or so. Also Intel is on the way with their 64 Bit processor.


Windows Xp 64 Bit has been out for a while, but is set up for a server environment.

Intel has been announcing there "Merced", 64 bit processor for years so I wouldn't wait around for that (SANTA CLARA, Calif., Oct. 9, 1997 -- Intel Corporation announced today that the first member of its new family of 64-bit microprocessors, code named Merced™, is scheduled for production in 1999.).


My 2 cents:

Get as barebones a system (Dimension 8300) as you can from Dell loaded with XP Pro. Meaning minimum memory and minimum HD. Get the lowest quality video card since you'll probably want to replace this with some other card not offered by Dell. Don't get a DVD burner from Dell, either. Just opt for the CD burner. You can add all the components that were left out after you get your system since it'll be cheaper to get memory, hard drives, video card and the DVD burner (dual format) from other sources besides Dell.


Why would you bother? You will still run into the problem of a case that is designed for maybe 2-4 specific Dell MB's only. You will also run out of drive bays for both Cd Roms/DVD Roms or burners and harddrives if more are required. No matter which route he takes, Intel or AMD (both are good processors), the 2 biggest issues he should address from the get go are:
1: Future expansion
2: Cooling

Most people over look cooling which is extremely important in a high end system if you want maximum performance and longevity.

Start with a nice large tower with 3 X 5.25" bays and 4 x 3.5" drive bays. Add a couple of extra fans and a good 400Watt min power supply and the rest is personal preferance/need depending on your budget.

Vince

[Vinny454]

For all you computer builders out there, can you recommend a specific motherboard for an upgrade? I have an ASUS CUSL2C right now, running windows 98SE. I am thinking about upgrading the OS to XP, and at the same time upgrading the motherboard (with new CPU and memory). I believe I currently have a 300W power supply; would I need to upgrade that as well?

I like ASUS boards and I like the Intel CPUs. Board selection should be based on the assumption that photo editing is the primary use.

Thanks techheads! :)

The Asus P4C800-E Deluxe board is there top of the line board and will more than satisfy your needs. It is a fantastic board and a hell of a performer.

http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4c800-e_d/overview.htm

Vince

[Boojum]

I am building a system for a friend that is much like the 8300 you want. Below are the specs. Note that all the parts below cost him only $1620 including shipping. That's with 2 250GB SATA hard drives, a gig of Kingston RAM, an FX5700 vid card, and a slick stainless steel
$205 Coolermaster case (w/ PS). We priced the equilalant PC at Dell and it came to hundreds more. Dells gips you on the "latest and greatest" in this case the 250GB hard drives. These parts were bought from Newegg.com, by far the best computer e-store out there. I never recommed OEM's like Dell. Much better to have one custom built.


Item Description Quantity
>13-121-184 MB P4 INTEL 865PE BOXD865PERLL RTL 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>14-122-179 VGA LTK FX5700 128M NV38 DVI/TV 8X 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>17-153-005 POWER SP|420W(P4)W0008R A-PFC TT RT 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>19-116-156 CPU P4/3.0CGHz 800M 478P/512K HT RT 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>20-141-424 DDR 512MB|DDR400 CL3 PC3200 RTL 2 (Shipped from La
>Puente, CA)
>21-103-203 FD 1.44MB|SAMSUNG SFD-321B/LBL1 OEM 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>22-144-154 HD 250GB|WD 7200 WD2500JD 8MB 2 (Shipped from La
>Puente, CA)
>27-106-196 CDRW/DVD 48X24X48X16|LITEON BLACK % 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>27-106-925 DVD+/-RW LITEON LDW-811S BLK RTL 1 (Shipped
>from La Puente, CA)
>37-102-141 CD MS|WIN XP HOME w/SP1a % 1 (Shipped from La
>Puente, CA)
>11-119-023 CASE COOLERMAS|ATXM TAC-T01 RT 1 (Shipped from La
>Puente, CA)

[PacAce]

My 2 cents:

Get as barebones a system (Dimension 8300) as you can from Dell loaded with XP Pro. Meaning minimum memory and minimum HD. Get the lowest quality video card since you'll probably want to replace this with some other card not offered by Dell. Don't get a DVD burner from Dell, either. Just opt for the CD burner. You can add all the components that were left out after you get your system since it'll be cheaper to get memory, hard drives, video card and the DVD burner (dual format) from other sources besides Dell.


Why would you bother? You will still run into the problem of a case that is designed for maybe 2-4 specific Dell MB's only. You will also run out of drive bays for both Cd Roms/DVD Roms or burners and harddrives if more are required. No matter which route he takes, Intel or AMD (both are good processors), the 2 biggest issues he should address from the get go are:
1: Future expansion
2: Cooling

Most people over look cooling which is extremely important in a high end system if you want maximum performance and longevity.

Start with a nice large tower with 3 X 5.25" bays and 4 x 3.5" drive bays. Add a couple of extra fans and a good 400Watt min power supply and the rest is personal preferance/need depending on your budget.

Vince



....If you run out of internal bays for hard drives, you're better off taking out the DVD burner and/or the CD burner and putting those in a firewire or USB 2.0 case and leaving the HDs inside.