580 speedlight and battery power??

[verty]

HiYa guys n gals...

i just got my 580 speedlight and tested it out.. i put some crappy 3rd party x4 AA batterys in it.. after maybe a hour of casual shooting i noticed the pilot light was taking ages to go red again...

how often do you have to change the batteries in the unit? is the power really crap or something?? or would there be something wrong with my speedlight?

sorry this might be a dumb topic.. but im fully unaware of speedlights.. i read the Q&A and dont think i stumbled across this question..

[Jim G]

I use Energizer 2500mah rechargeables... there is a BIG difference between crappy alkaline batteries and the good rechargeables as far as recharge time and longevity goes (or at least there was between the crappy ones I put in and my rechargeables)...

I shoot for a couple of hours on one set with light to moderate flash usage at most so I'm not a good person to ask about when they're going to run out because I've never had difficulties.. I carry two 4x sets around and just swap them over after a few sessions and charge up the others. The recharge time does get a little slower by the end of a couple of sessions for me.

[coreypolis]

it depends, how long was it on, how many images, at what power were they. the more it works, the faster they go.

high milliamp recharge-ables are the way to go, or buy bricks of duracells at costco (do you have costco out there?)

Or, for heavy usage, a pack like the Canon cp-e3 or Quantum turbo can be used. Something else to carry around, but they give you all day power and faster recharge times.

[TMR Design]

You'll go out of your mind if you use standard alkalines. Get some Energizer 2500 mAh and a 15 minute charger. I was able to find a Duracell 15 minute charger and 2650 mAh batteries. I have to say, I get very good life out of those.

[verty]

thanks guys...
so pretty much rechargable batteries are the only way to go for decent use for these speedlights??

[Jim G]

Well the Energizer rechargeables I pick up for $20/4pack at Woolies or Coles... even if you only got 100 charges out of them that's 5c/battery. 500 charges = 1c/battery... alkalines won't last as long and will eat a huge hole in your pocket if you use them regularly. I can't even remember how much alkalines cost anymore because I've been using rechargeables for absolutely everything ever since I got my flash :p

[verty]

cool jim.. ill go down to wollies and get some tonight..
how much is the charger??

[jcw122]

Idle Self discharge w/ NiHM's sucks though...jeez they drain themselves like crazy.

[rklepper]

If you want any kind of battery life out of the 580EX as far as use in one event goes, as well as any kind of acceptable recharge rate, you need to look at an external battery pack.

[jcw122]

thanks guys...
so pretty much rechargable batteries are the only way to go for decent use for these speedlights??

No I think Lithium batteries are pretty good too. Very light also, NiHM's aren't very light.

[verty]

sorry im getting very confused now..
what am i susposed to use??

Lithium batteries?
what is a Nihm?
and an External Battery Pack?

why is there a slot for for batteries for if there are so many options??
this is confusing ???

[cdifoto]

You admitted straight out that the batteries you used were crappy third party...so what do you really expect?

Lithium = longer life, non-rechargeable, waste of cash
NiMh = rechargeable, best option
External = lots of options, most popular being the CP-E3 from Canon and Quantums.

Slot for batteries? It's there because...well it takes batteries. Not sure what that particular question is all about.

[woffles]

Get rechargeable batteries. The higher the mAh the better. Doesn't sound like you are shooting weddings so you'll get plenty of power out of rechargeables. Best to have two sets so one can be recharging while you are using the others if doing a lot of shooting. Worry about externals later if need be.

[FlashZebra]

sorry im getting very confused now..
what am i susposed to use??

Lithium batteries?
what is a Nihm?
and an External Battery Pack?

why is there a slot for for batteries for if there are so many options??
this is confusing ???
If you cannot deal with complexity, just do as I say and ignore all other posts in this thread, and explicitly follow everything on the list, absolutely everything.


Get yourself 8 NiMH AA cells with a mAh rating of at least 2200 mAh (if the rating is higher that is fine). This will give you a set for your flash and a spare set. If you are really worried about having enough cells, get 12 and not 8, so you will have three sets.

Get yourself a charger that is suitable for NiMH AA cells.

Charge you NiMH AA cells no more than a few days before you expect to use them (all NiMH cells discharge spontaneously as they set).
Go to Bondi Beach at night and take hundreds of flash images of your sandy feet with special interest in you large toenail on your left foot. Post the best 57 images of that toenail back to this thread.

Enjoy! Lon

[verty]

If you cannot deal with complexity, just do as I say and ignore all other posts in this thread, and explicitly follow everything on the list, absolutely everything.

Get yourself 8 NiMH AA cells with a mAh rating of at least 2200 mAh (if the rating is higher that is fine). This will give you a set for your flash and a spare set. If you are really worried about having enough cells, get 12 and not 8, so you will have three sets.
Get yourself a charger that is suitable for NiMH AA cells.
Charge you NiMH AA cells no more than a few days before you expect to use them (all NiMH cells discharge spontaneously as they set).
Go to Bondi Beach at night and take hundreds of flash images of your sandy feet with special interest in you large toenail on your left foot. Post the best 57 images of that toenail back to this thread.Enjoy! Lon

how did you know i had a large toenail? HAHAHAH
thanks for that!!
ill go n get rechargable ones..

and thanks 2 everyone else :D

[verty]

You admitted straight out that the batteries you used were crappy third party...so what do you really expect?


i didnt know what to expect.. thats why i started the thread!
its my 1st time using a speedlight so i didnt know yeah...

[Jim G]

Those Energizer ones are NiMH.. best option around for us that I've seen. Charger runs to about $20, I think I picked up a charger for $25 with two batteries. It's not a 15-minute charger, though, more a several-hour charger. I don't burn through batteries fast enough to look into the 15-minute charger stuff yet as I only ever need to recharge one set at once... I haven't seen one of those in Woolies or similar, you might have to check Tandy or JB.

[scottbergerphoto]

If you look at the power vs. time curves of NiMh vs. Alkalines, you can see one of the reasons NiMh are better for flash. Alkalines will deliver less power over time, weakening before they die. NiMh will deliver near full power and then die abruptly. A good place for batteries and chargers is www.thomas-distributing.com .
If you are going to use flash alot and would rather not deal with carrying around 8-12 AA batteries and you don't mind spending some extra cash, there are external battery packs from Quantum. I am most recently using two Quantum Turbo Compact battery packs. I carry those or 16 NiMH Energizer 2500 MaH.

[FlashZebra]

I carry those or 16 NiMH Energizer 2500 MaH.
Hey, you have slighted André-Marie Ampère with that tiny "a". Especially with that close company of all those big letters.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere

And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9-Marie_Amp%C3%A8re

Enjoy! Lon

[scottbergerphoto]

OOps!:oops:

[Reefbone]

Idle Self discharge w/ NiHM's sucks though...jeez they drain themselves like crazy.

Sanyo recently released a new rechargeable battery called 'Eneloop' (http://www.eneloop.info/) that has a low self discharge and is charged/ready to use when you buy it. On the downside they're rated at 2000mAh and they currently cost about twice as much as standard NiMh. At the current cost and power capacity I'm going to stick with NiMh for now but it's nice to know they are on the horizon.

I personally haven't had a problem with self discharge and have always found one set of NiMH to be enough. I do keep a set of standard alkalines as a back up though. I use a 2500mAh battery but have seen Duracell 2650mAh at the grocery for around 8$ a four pack. The initial cost of rechargables is negated after about 5 charges.

[verty]

Those Energizer ones are NiMH.. best option around for us that I've seen. Charger runs to about $20, I think I picked up a charger for $25 with two batteries. It's not a 15-minute charger, though, more a several-hour charger. I don't burn through batteries fast enough to look into the 15-minute charger stuff yet as I only ever need to recharge one set at once... I haven't seen one of those in Woolies or similar, you might have to check Tandy or JB.


thanx for that
mmmmm i got prices and it looks like the charger and the 4 batteries are like 49 bux for JB HI FI..

DAM i didnt wanna spend any more money atm on photography! hehehe
oh well.. im just gonna buy the batteries (rechargable ones) and hope they last for acouple of hours when i shoot on saturday...

[verty]

ok an update on the purchase...

i had to end up buying a charger because i didnt know the batteries supplied were not already charged..

i went to paxtons and they sold two different chargers, a brand i had never heard before with x8 2500mah for about 60 dollars. Then they had a Sony fast charge kit with car charger as well with x4 2500 mah batteries for $100 bux..

i really didnt wanna spend this much so i went over to JB HI FI and found a Duracell charger kit with x4 1800 mah batteries for $23 dollars... i couldnt find Enegrgizer ones anywhere... i dont know if the 1800 mah batteries will be any good.. but ill just go and pick up a 4 pack of 2500 mah batteries as well... i think what i chose was the cheapest option... all the other packs were over $60 +

[Lightstream]

ok an update on the purchase...

i had to end up buying a charger because i didnt know the batteries supplied were not already charged..

i went to paxtons and they sold two different chargers, a brand i had never heard before with x8 2500mah for about 60 dollars. Then they had a Sony fast charge kit with car charger as well with x4 2500 mah batteries for $100 bux..

i really didnt wanna spend this much so i went over to JB HI FI and found a Duracell charger kit with x4 1800 mah batteries for $23 dollars... i couldnt find Enegrgizer ones anywhere... i dont know if the 1800 mah batteries will be any good.. but ill just go and pick up a 4 pack of 2500 mah batteries as well... i think what i chose was the cheapest option... all the other packs were over $60 +

1800mAH is fine. Think of the mAH rating as the 'gas tank' for the battery, a general guide to how long it will last. 2500 mAH (right now) is considered pretty good, but then again I have been shooting with 1850 and 2100mAH batteries for quite a long time and you will still get at least a couple hundred bursts out of them. I seldom use absolute max power (I'm probably doing something wrong if the flash takes 4 seconds to cycle) so they do last quite a while.

The big drain is when the flash has been fired and it is charging, otherwise there is relatively low drain on the batteries. So it is quite OK if you leave the flash to stand by for a couple of hours, but if you keep firing, that is when you will deplete the batteries.

Duracell is pretty OK, but most likely you got a slow charger (you pay for speed, as is everything). This is fine if you are ok with leaving the cells to charge overnight, pop 'em in and go to bed, REMEMBER to take them tomorrow though! I remember I ran off to a very important event after remembering to charge my batteries....only problem is, I got to the location and discovered that the NB-2LH was STILL in the charger....WELL DONE!! Thankfully a spare battery in my bag saved the day and nobody noticed.. OK.. chalk one up to experience and score one for disaster prevention..

NiMH also self-discharge: if you leave them for a month or so, they slowly lose their charge even if they are taken out of the flash and left to do nothing, so remember to top-up a couple of days before you run out on a shoot.

A spare set is a wise investment, also remember to keep them topped up.

[I Simonius]

No I think Lithium batteries are pretty good too. Very light also, NiHM's aren't very light.

sorry im getting very confused now..
what am i susposed to use??

Lithium batteries?
what is a Nihm?
and an External Battery Pack?

why is there a slot for for batteries for if there are so many options??
this is confusing ???

me too - Im baffled

I use flash (http://digital-finger.smugmug.com/gallery/1630756/1/79648164) so rarely I havent even worn out te first lot of duracell batteries I got but I suppose I should get some rechargeables but have no idea what the different terms mean either???

[I Simonius]

i didnt know what to expect.. thats why i started the thread!
its my 1st time using a speedlight so i didnt know yeah...

quite right!

Good question IMO

[Echo63]

ok - the battery answers
Nimh is short for "nickel metal hydride" it is one of a few Battery chemistrys, others include Nicad (short for nickel cadmium) Lion (short for lithium ion) and lead acid
Lead acid is very heavy for the amount of energy they contain, they can however support very high current discharges
they are used for Car batteries

Lion is very light for the amount of energy contained, they can support average current draws, dont self discharge much but do have over charge discharge problems if the cells arent protected with a special circuit
they are used for Mobile phone batterys, and the batteries in the 350/400d are Lion im not sure about the rest of the canon range

Nicad Batterys are an older battery chemistry, they are available in "normal" battery sizes and shapes "aa, aaa, c,d etc"
and can support high current draw but generally lack capacity and can suffer from "memory effect" they also have a horrible self discharge

Nimh is the best Battery chemistry for use in normal consumer devices
they have a fairly high capacity (up to about 2650 Mah) and dont self drain too badly, they can handle an average current draw and dont suffer from memory effect

Battery capacity is measured in Mah - the bigger the number the more energy the batterys will store but they generally wont support ultra high current draws as well as the lower capacity Nimhs (not that it is needed in this application)

the quantum and CP-e3 Pack will allow you faster recycle times with your flash but unless you need the quick recycling you will probably be happy with a set of good Nimh batterys (energisers or duracell)

hope this helps, but if it confuses you im sorry

[I Simonius]

ok - the battery answers
hope this helps, but if it confuses you im sorry

No that is a great explanation! Thanks!:D

[Lightstream]

Great explanation Echo63... just add a couple of points:

You may see lithium AA's available at the supermarket - these are single-shot non-reuseable ones (not like lithium ion rechargeables). Sometimes advertised to "last longer in digital cameras" or something like that. True, they do last longer than normal alkalines but still, not as long as NiMH. And they are not rechargeable. Save $$, buy NiMH. You can think of it as 'saving the world' but us mercenary types think 'save thy wallet first, the L glass is beating up on it fierce' ;)

Canon's 1-series NP-E2 battery pack is made up of 10 NiMH AA size cells welded to each other. With sufficient skill you can actually unweld and replace 'em. Note the sufficient part. :p (leave it to the experts)

BP511 and all variants are lithium ion. Actually made of two little round 17500 or 18500 cells (size designation for li-ion) in series - that explains the two 'humps' on the battery.

[verty]

thankyou so much Lightstream & Echo68 for your help..
looks like I Simonius liked your help too :D

well im shooting a wedding this saturday.. and for the 1st time i might be using the flash.. its a day wedding so if its required it will only be for a very short time so i think my batteries will be ok... im just a second shooter for a professional shooter.. im just starting out

[scottbergerphoto]

Three advantages to disposable Lithium Batteries (although I never use them) are:
1. They are not affected by cold temperatures.
2. They have a very long shelf life. They retain 90% of their power over 10 years.
3. They are 1/2 the weight of alkalines.
Source: The Nikon Flash Guide by Thom Hogan