photo album question

[islandphoto]

I was wondering how many of you sell or give 4x6 albums...I'm making one right now and it feels so uncreative compared to other album options. I also bought one that holds 4 photos per page and it's sort of annoying to have to figure out exactly enough horizontal and vertical photos to have for "the ceremony" for example. What does everyone else do about this.

What brand do you use for simple photo albums?

Thanks,

[tim]

No way would I do that, they feel too cheap.

[islandphoto]

Do you ever have clients that ask for that? What are the different types of albums that you offer?

[jessiper]

I only use 4x6's for proof albums, which I think are great, but wouldn't use them for an actual album.

[islandphoto]

Do you inlcude a proof album for every package and what brand do you use? Thanks,

[tim]

Personally I do electronic proofs unless customers ask and pay for 6x4 proofs, and I use Queensberry albums.

[jessiper]

I have two prices, one w/o the proofs, and one with. Although, I'm going to change that and make the proofs included, but my packages are all "customizable." I put them in simple, plain albums w/the slip in pages. I find good leather ones at Bed Bath & Beyond, Target and Fred Meyer sometimes, but there's also a company based out of CA called Western Photographic that sells albums that I use. They're high quality and have lots of options. My proofs are almost as good a quality as the prints, so I like to give it to the clients.

[jessiper]

The prints look much better than the digital files, which is why I like to give them as many prints from a good lab as possible. Makes them happier w/their pics.

[islandphoto]

good point! See... I'm not selling prints so that's why I can't consider it a "proof album" but simply a "simple photo album" - I sell higher quality albums as well but this is good for the customer who doesn't want to spend a fortune but want's prints in an album. I"ve been getting nice white albums from albumsinc.com

[sapearl]

Hi Joanna - yes, I'm one of the few (it seems) here who also uses proof albums. It's something I did for years when shooting film, the clients in this area so far expect it, so I continued with the "tradition" when I converted to digital. It's one of the things that sets me apart from the newcomers in my area ;) .

I order the 4x6 proof books from Albums Inc. (http://www.albumsinc.com/). Toll free: (800) 662-1000

The books are nowhere as cheap as stuff at Wallmart and the other places, but they are high quality items, come in a decent box, and are spiral bound so you can add or subtract pages. I use model # PBSD-2-46/50 BB made by Topflight. It is an elegant looking black on black vinyl book. - Stu



Do you inlcude a proof album for every package and what brand do you use? Thanks,

[sapearl]

I couldn't agree more with jessiper on this point.

So many clients and potential clients out there have REALLY MISERABLY calibrated and crappy old monitors that they use for picture viewing. This can really put your finely crafted work in the worst possible light for appreciation. I know this because I've just started putting lower rez proofs on-line and have viewed them using equipment other than my own.

Friends, when you start putting things ONLY on disk, you introduce a whole new set of variables for viewing your work. I am not saying that is a good or bad idea, just that you have to consider how the work will now be judged. You can no longer control the "data" environment in which your work will be seen.

At least with a good, consistent pro-lab, you are producing a concrete benchmark - the paper proofs - which can be more easily viewed with the "proper calibration." ;) - Stu

The prints look much better than the digital files, which is why I like to give them as many prints from a good lab as possible. Makes them happier w/their pics.

[MagicallyDelicious]

I use on line proofing.

If the customer wants a proof book with 6x4's then they pay for them.

[sapearl]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post - the cost of proofing as well as the proof books have already been built into the main cost of the album packages that I sell. They get the proofs and books anyway.

Also, the books are a sort of double library style, so they will each hold (200) 4x6 proofs to begin, up to around 230 if I want to squeeze things a bit. And that's what's nice about this style.... you can add or subtract pages, plus there are order form inserts in between each page. I don't use them myself (I've created my own order form) but the client often uses them to make cropping notes, quantity notations, etc.

I'm now delivering 400-475 proofs per wedding, so I use two proof books per event. I will usually shoot 500+ images that day, but whittle it down to that final number prior to lab proofing.

[jessiper]

I couldn't agree more with jessiper on this point.

So many clients and potential clients out there have REALLY MISERABLY calibrated and crappy old monitors that they use for picture viewing. This can really put your finely crafted work in the worst possible light for appreciation. I know this because I've just started putting lower rez proofs on-line and have viewed them using equipment other than my own.

Friends, when you start putting things ONLY on disk, you introduce a whole new set of variables for viewing your work. I am not saying that is a good or bad idea, just that you have to consider how the work will now be judged. You can no longer control the "data" environment in which your work will be seen.

At least with a good, consistent pro-lab, you are producing a concrete benchmark - the paper proofs - which can be more easily viewed with the "proper calibration." ;) - Stu


Hey, thanks! ;)

[jessiper]

Hi Joanna - yes, I'm one of the few (it seems) here who also uses proof albums. It's something I did for years when shooting film, the clients in this area so far expect it, so I continued with the "tradition" when I converted to digital. It's one of the things that sets me apart from the newcomers in my area ;) .

I order the 4x6 proof books from Albums Inc. (http://www.albumsinc.com/). Toll free: (800) 662-1000

The books are nowhere as cheap as stuff at Wallmart and the other places, but they are high quality items, come in a decent box, and are spiral bound so you can add or subtract pages. I use model # PBSD-2-46/50 BB made by Topflight. It is an elegant looking black on black vinyl book. - Stu

I will check out Albums, Inc. Thanks!

[islandphoto]

Stu- that is where I've been ordering mine and I'm happy with them. I couldn't seem to find the product # that you use on their website. Which section of topflight are you looking at?

Thanks,

I also think you guys have a good point about prints looking better than the digital files.

[sapearl]

Joanna - I confess that I don't use their website. Fortunately their Cleveland warehouse office is just the other side of town from me and I call there direct, using the paper catalog.

If you have the 2006 paper catalog, it's on page 228, at the top: "Library Style Proof Albums, complete with pages and order forms." If you don't have the catalog, call 1-800-662-1000 x524, which will get you Bill Blystone. He's a really super guy and takes care of all my questions when I need a little more attention than placing an order.

Bill knows me pretty well, and if you drop my name and say "gimme' the proof book that Stu uses", he'll probably know what you're talking about. If not, he'll give me a quick call at work. I don't get anything from the referral - I just like to help the guy out since he's been good to me.

Stu- that is where I've been ordering mine and I'm happy with them. I couldn't seem to find the product # that you use on their website. Which section of topflight are you looking at?

Thanks,

I also think you guys have a good point about prints looking better than the digital files.

[sapearl]

Seriously, the web makes it very easy to share, proof, teach and sell, but visually it just doesn't do a truly fine job of showing the quality of our work.

It's certainly one more tool in our kit, but IMHO there's nothing like holding a finely crafted print in your hand, album, or viewing it nicely framed and hanging on the wall and properly lighted.;)

..............I also think you guys have a good point about prints looking better than the digital files.

[islandphoto]

thanks, I found it... Do you find the verticle photos looking funny when you have to flip the album the other way?

[sapearl]

Yes, the photos do a look a little goofy like that, verticals and horizontals mixed together, but I haven't found an economical way around it. I sit with the client when they first receive the proof book and we go through it together, and it doesn't seem to bother them. Afterall, they are just proofs. The finished album will be "perfect."

The alternative is a matted book that allows you to orient them in the same direction, but then that's really a "finished" album, which is NOT what I want at this stage of the game. This is what was nice when I shot MF square film - you never had to worry about orientation :lol: .

The other alternative is the spiral bound proof books that a lot of labs offer. Multiple photos are printed on a single sheet of photographic paper, properly oriented, and then ether spiral (comb) or stitch bound. This solves the problem more or less, but then your proofs are significantly smaller than 4x6; larger than a contact sheet, but still not very big. Some really like this... me, I guess I'm just an old fashioned kind of guy.;) - Stu

thanks, I found it... Do you find the verticle photos looking funny when you have to flip the album the other way?

[islandphoto]

Thanks! So what other type of albums are you offering? I just offer the 4x6 album and then other higher quality albums like asukabook or a matted renaissance album. But in a sense the 4x6 album is a final album if they aren't ordering anything else. You know what I mean?

[sapearl]

...know exactly what you mean Joanna ;) . Some of my clients on a modest budget cannot afford a leather bound album, or one of the other books so I will sell them the entire set of processed proofs (that I select) in proof albums as their FINISHED product.

I make sure they understand this, that I do process everything through PS from the RAWoriginals, but that these the proofs they are getting.

For a while I used the other Topflight products, or Zookbinders in Chicago when they want a beautifully finished leather bound book. Zook is fairly competitive with others like it. But to give you an approximate idea of price, MY cost for a Zook album, bound in glove leather, inscriptions, and cameo inset photo on the cover, containing (30) 8x10 & (24) 5x7 photos is a little over $400. That's just the cost of creating the bound book from scratch. I don't sell a WHOLE lot of those, but now and then....

I am now using the Maxima Eloquence bound in albums (Page 109 of the Albums Inc. catalog). The book comes already bound from the factory - you tell them the number of pages you want based on a set matrix - and you assemble the photos with mats that you pick. For the same quantity album as above, I figure it's around $250.

My basic album configurations are now (24) 5x7's in a book, or (24) 8x10 pages in a book. With the larger book pages, the mats will accomodate different size configurations on the same page. I give the customer a starting point - brochure and website - and if they express other interests, I work with them.


Thanks! So what other type of albums are you offering? I just offer the 4x6 album and then other higher quality albums like asukabook or a matted renaissance album. But in a sense the 4x6 album is a final album if they aren't ordering anything else. You know what I mean?

[Mike Reynolds]

I also figure the cost of a proof album in and like to give to the client as a surprize gift at the end.

[sapearl]

I think that's an excellent idea Mike - makes for a real positive impression and attractive marketing too. Deliver more than what you promise, on a regular basis, word gets around and they come knockin' on the door....

I also figure the cost of a proof album in and like to give to the client as a surprize gift at the end.

[tim]

Then again, would you get more customers if they knew your packages included a proof album?

[islandphoto]

That is a great idea! I try to always include something extra. I recently did a DVD slideshow for the couple, sometimes a framed 8x10... I think it's a nice gesture and a way to say "thank you for your business"

What I was saying about the 4x6 prints is that if you have a page of all verticles, it seems a little unnatural but I guess theirs nothing we can do about that huh?

[islandphoto]

Then again, would you get more customers if they knew your packages included a proof album? You have a really good point about that. Would you get more customers if you made it clear all the goods that they would get by hiring you? Good question.

[MrTED]

I have always offered a proof album, 6" x 4" or 5" x 7" photos in a slip in album. I recently signed up with an online proofing and ordering site to not only proof my photos, but seLl to guests using the password protected online ordering facility.

I now offer packages with only online ordering. The only issue is those that do not have internet access. Online proofing is more timely, not requiring a time for both parties to meet. But it is also true that people see photos in their hand as value for money.

Also, with proofs in print, they have permanent access to all the photos taken on the day (or at least the best 200-400). In an album, digital or mounted, they wouldn't include dancefloor photos. The website will not be around forever, so having them in hand is better.

[sapearl]

Having ONLY a disk requires a certain level of tech as well as electrical power to view the images. A book of photos only requires curious flesh and blood fingers to turn the pages.

I have nothing against hi tech - I embrace it myself - but when I look at my kids sitting on the couch with their grandparents, going through the shoe box of old photos, handing one to the other, pointing to the faces in each one.....it's just not quite the same as booting up the latest greatest "electronic viewer."

And as MrTED points out points out, websites come and go, even when they promise "permanent storage." I enjoy using online services myself, but I'll still keep that book of photos sitting on the shelf ;) .

I have always offered a proof album, 6" x 4" or 5" x 7" photos in a slip in album. ........with proofs in print, they have permanent access to all the photos taken on the day (or at least the best 200-400). In an album, digital or mounted, they wouldn't include dancefloor photos. The website will not be around forever, so having them in hand is better.

[jillybean]

I am also in the 4x6 proof book 'club'. I only uses proof books from taprell loomis
www.tap-usa.com they are really well made and make a wonderful presentation. Agreed that if I went with on line proofing I would be making a few $$ more profit, but this system works for me and has for many moons.

[jessiper]

thanks, I found it... Do you find the verticle photos looking funny when you have to flip the album the other way?

I don't think it looks funny in a proof album.