Example of 3 Flashes

[Dante King]

I know many here have questions about using flashes as pseudo studio strobes. I have done this for some time and have be hesitant to get out my big gun mono blocks. I wanted to post an example of what you could achieve with 3 flashes. I used a ste2 for control of the set. 2 flashes were set on channel A and on on Channel B. Channel B was hair light and the flash had a a lumiquest soft box attached. The other two flashes were set up about 20 degrees to the left of my subjects using umbrella softboxes. Both in the same line, one high and one low. I used the ste2 to control the ratios and A:B was 6:1. I dont know if I will ever set up my strobes for shoots that do not require high key or seamless paper again.

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=248417

The pros of this set up is portability and cost. I know that flashes are not cheap, but when you consider that all 3 flashes were bought used on the forum for about $500 its a pretty good set up. Other 3rd party brand flashes can be had for much cheaper. As well, the flashes can be used in spaces that studio strobes cant. Like small spaces and on my cameras hot shoe! :). Anther bonus is that all can be controlled by ste2 or master flash. No walking around messing with settings on strobes.

Cons are that they are not as powerful as studio strobes generally, and thus are kinda limited in certain usages mentioned above.

I used to take my strobes on shoots to people homes. Well no more. I find this set up to be adequate for the majority of that kind of shoot and easier on my back.

I would love to hear your experience on this situation and what you have found out and use.

[SuzyView]

Dante, several places in town won't even let me have cables going across the floor for safety reasons. That's why I now have the 580, 550, 430 with ST-E2 setting them off. I just have about 20 extra AA batteries in my bag. But that set up isn't bad. I bring light stands and umbrellas and diffusers as well. Something ought to work. :)

[StealthLude]

I used to have two 420ex units which I used as slaves, and used my 580ex as a master (set NOT to fire)

I used this setup for a few months... I however ended up selling my 420ex units since I did not feel the power output was enought. Even while using brollys, the effect was good, but the power just wasnt there.

I do miss my ETTL slaves, but I found with the 420ex units the consistency of ETTL was NOT going to work for me. It does however satify the quick fix portion of me. I would have liked to try 430ex or more 580ex units, (in manual mode) but deicded to go with Alien Bee lights instead.

Both systems have their pros and cons... Recycle time was bad with speedlights, but for your xmass card application, I belive the speedlights would be a lot more fun to use.

With the Alien Bees I also have more options for light modifiers, like Grids , softboxes and others items.

At the end of the day, I would like to own both setups. Both have different applications.

[coreypolis]

i'd go with some quantum battery packs if you continue. Besides the cost per use factor, and even more importantly, you want consistent and fast recycle time

[Wilt]

Using speedlights is often what the doctor recommends for shooting Location Portraiture, where you often do not have the space or time of the sitter to set up studio lighting with the cables, etc. Nothing fundamentally wrong with that approach at all. It might not be 'the best' lighting you could set up, but it certainly can be 'good lighting'. Having the luxury of digital to see results immediately, it certainly can be much better quality than in the film days when you could not see results quickly but had to guess (or rely upon a lot of experience!)

[BradT0517]

great ideas with the flashes.
I was looking at your gear list and what happened to the 70-200 f4 and the 5d

[Curtis N]

The pros of this set up is portability and cost. I know that flashes are not cheap, but when you consider that all 3 flashes were bought used on the forum for about $500 its a pretty good set up. Other 3rd party brand flashes can be had for much cheaper.I certainly agree with you on the portability aspect. I can get two light stands, two umbrellas, four flash units and all other necessary hardware in a suitcase.

As for the cost argument, Canon's wireless flash system is a damned expensive way to flash. Three EX series Speedlites off-camera, with an ST-E2 or another Speedlite on the camera, will set you back nearly $1,000 (maybe more). Buying used can save you plenty, but you can buy used studio lights, too.

You make a good point that third party flash units can be quite affordable. But if you go with garden variety flash units and optical slaves, the metering methods required are completely different.

[woffles]

Dante, in your pictures you show one using your light meter. How do you go about actually metering and then setting your flashes? Do you manually set each one with the meter and then dial those settings into the ST-E2? Seems to me the ST-E2 would give a false meter reading if you tried to use it to set off the flashes.

[woffles]

I certainly agree with you on the portability aspect. I can get two light stands, two umbrellas, four flash units and all other necessary hardware in a suitcase.

As for the cost argument, Canon's wireless flash system is a damned expensive way to flash. Three EX series Speedlites off-camera, with an ST-E2 or another Speedlite on the camera, will set you back nearly $1,000 (maybe more). Buying used can save you plenty, but you can buy used studio lights, too.

You make a good point that third party flash units can be quite affordable. But if you go with garden variety flash units and optical slaves, the metering methods required are completely different.

Have you priced new Quantum systems? One flash and battery will set you back $1000. Still need more equipment with it and radios, etc. Canons aren't really that expensive. Two 580s, ST-E2, 2 CP-E3s is still just a little more then one Quantum flash alone.

[ShotByTom]

That is a fantastic picture! I'm pretty new at this so forgive my ignorance...did you do any post processing to bring out the lights and the tree in the background? I've tried similar shots (with much cheaper lens and flashes..) and I can't get the tree and lights to look that good.

Mine look like your outtakes...

Any pointers?

[begovics]

As for the cost argument, Canon's wireless flash system is a damned expensive way to flash. Three EX series Speedlites off-camera, with an ST-E2 or another Speedlite on the camera, will set you back nearly $1,000 (maybe more).

Completely agree with it and I am looking for alternative, but which wireless setup, excluding the one with cheap optical triggers costs less. Maybe cheap manual flashes with not so cheap Pocket wizards, but then you are missing flash you can use on the camera for other applications. I am looking for cheaper alternative for Canon wireless setup, but can't really find anything without major compromises. Anybody with recommendations?

[Dante King]

great ideas with the flashes.
I was looking at your gear list and what happened to the 70-200 f4 and the 5d

Sold the lens, traded the 5D for a 1dsmk2, again ;)

I certainly agree with you on the portability aspect. I can get two light stands, two umbrellas, four flash units and all other necessary hardware in a suitcase.

As for the cost argument, Canon's wireless flash system is a damned expensive way to flash. Three EX series Speedlites off-camera, with an ST-E2 or another Speedlite on the camera, will set you back nearly $1,000 (maybe more). Buying used can save you plenty, but you can buy used studio lights, too.

You make a good point that third party flash units can be quite affordable. But if you go with garden variety flash units and optical slaves, the metering methods required are completely different.

Agreed to a point, king measurebator! The three flashes and ste2 I used was total, $700 bucks. True you could get some strobes for this, but the decient sets I have seen are more expensive and dont give you the wireless ability. If you take off the ste2 and use a flash as master you save $200 give take a bit.

Dante, in your pictures you show one using your light meter. How do you go about actually metering and then setting your flashes? Do you manually set each one with the meter and then dial those settings into the ST-E2? Seems to me the ST-E2 would give a false meter reading if you tried to use it to set off the flashes.

I was using the light meter to check incident light readings. I based my camera settings on these. Think the final settings were, AV 2.2, TV 1/40 a and ISO 200. With I then set the groups as described and let the ste2 and camera do the rest.

That is a fantastic picture! I'm pretty new at this so forgive my ignorance...did you do any post processing to bring out the lights and the tree in the background? I've tried similar shots (with much cheaper lens and flashes..) and I can't get the tree and lights to look that good.

Mine look like your outtakes...

Any pointers?

Well my outtakes were to to low battery power in the flashes. Damn it all. Should have put in fresh cells but after Cleaning up the kids after eating baby back ribs, herding the kids, getting them to sit..... I was just able to pull some off. Lighting on the outtakes were due to no flash or not all flashes firing. Think most of these were with to high a TV and AV as well.

As far as PP, I increased saturation and contrast (think it was + 20-30 on each). Shot in raw. No need to adjust exposure, but my 1dsmk2 needs some help with sharpness, color and contrast as it is the nature of that beast.

[Dante King]

Completely agree with it and I am looking for alternative, but which wireless setup, excluding the one with cheap optical triggers costs less. Maybe cheap manual flashes with not so cheap Pocket wizards, but then you are missing flash you can use on the camera for other applications. I am looking for cheaper alternative for Canon wireless setup, but can't really find anything without major compromises. Anybody with recommendations?

I did not acquire all the flashes at once. That helps save some $$$. As well, there are awesome deals on used 550 flashes. I picked up 2 for like $350 Both ugly but function well) if I remember right. Having 2 flashes for a shoot is a great improvement imho. As for the ste2, a flash of like the 550 can do all the controls too. for example there is a unit on FM going for 250 paypaled and shipped. Pretty sweet and better deals for functional cosmetic beaters. All I am saying is that when you add the cost of pocket wizards and some other device you are pretty much there in getting a flash that will open up more doors with ettl and wireless options.

[Lotto]

Well done, Dante. Lovely kids. Any particular reason that you sit one umbrella on top of another?

[Curtis N]

I am looking for cheaper alternative for Canon wireless setup, but can't really find anything without major compromises. Anybody with recommendations?For a versatile setup, I would start with a good E-TTL flash unit with adjustable manual capability on the hotshoe. A 430EX, 580EX, Sigma Super or a used 550EX will work. Add to that one or two Sunpak 383 units ($80 each) and optical slaves ($30 or less) for off-camera. The Sunpaks have both automatic and adjustable manual modes.

If you want to go even cheaper, you could use another Sunpak on the hotshoe instead of an E-TTL flash. But the E-TTL units offer additional features like an AF assist light, and E-TTL is a great system for outdoor fill.

Since all of these units have adjustable power and bounce/swivel, you can aim the hotshoe unit at one of the slaves at low power to trigger them without affecting the shot.

Take a look at this thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=246797)for a few ideas.

[Dante King]

Well done, Dante. Lovely kids. Any particular reason that you sit one umbrella on top of another?

Well I wanted to get some good light. Typically I would have used 1 studo strobe, but these have no where near the guide number. As well, I wanted to have some soft shadows to define their features and If I set up another flash on the opposite side, the lighting would have been flatter.

For a versatile setup, I would start with a good E-TTL flash unit with adjustable manual capability on the hotshoe. A 430EX, 580EX, Sigma Super or a used 550EX will work. Add to that one or two Sunpak 383 units ($80 each) and optical slaves ($30 or less) for off-camera. The Sunpaks have both automatic and adjustable manual modes.

If you want to go even cheaper, you could use another Sunpak on the hotshoe instead of an E-TTL flash. But the E-TTL units offer additional features like an AF assist light, and E-TTL is a great system for outdoor fill.

Since all of these units have adjustable power and bounce/swivel, you can aim the hotshoe unit at one of the slaves at low power to trigger them without affecting the shot.

Take a look at this thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=246797)for a few ideas.

Nice link and good advice King Meaurebater.

[begovics]

but which wireless setup, excluding the one with cheap optical triggers costs less.

Curtis N,
I think you missed this part. I should have explained why am I excluding optical slave triggers. I usually have at least three people behind my back useing their cameras with flashes and I can not always avoid that. If I had to build just the home lighting, that would be much simpler. But thanks anyway for your interest and ideas. :confused:

[StealthLude]

If you are picking up the lights used is a great way to go. I juts cant see myself spending another $500-600 on two 430ex speedlights considering my 580ex, MT-24EX & CP-E3 cost about $1,100... Unless you go a lot of on location must have portable setup... I cant see a good way to justify the cost. One thing I would like wireless ETTL lights for, is for the customer who just "must have" the beach shot. Ive been asked to take a shot of a couple agaist a sunset... Im not sure if speedlights can even pack the punch I need to accomplish this. I assume one needs to pull out the big monoblocks.

[Curtis N]

I think you missed this part.You're right. I missed that part. I am planning to learn to read someday. :oops:

PocketWizards seem to be the system of choice among radio slaves, and they're quite versatile. With the proper cord adapters they can be used to trigger just about anything. There are cheaper sets available via E-Bay, but opinions vary on whether the knock-offs are reliable enough for professional use.

[Wilt]

PocketWizards seem to be the system of choice among radio slaves, and they're quite versatile. With the proper cord adapters they can be used to trigger just about anything. There are cheaper sets available via E-Bay, but opinions vary on whether the knock-offs are reliable enough for professional use.

Interesting the evolution in the market over the space of a decade. It used to be (in the 90's) that Quantum Radio Slaves were the high demand items, and Pocket Wizards were the high-priced alternative. What happened that Quantum fell out of favor and PW is the rage?

[Curtis N]

What happened that Quantum fell out of favor and PW is the rage?I am not an authority on radio slave devices, and I apologize if my previous post implied that.

I made that statement based on what I read, from people with more experience than me, in this forum and other sites such as strobist.com. I have also seen PocketWizards in use by many professionals.

If you have information or experience with Quantum's system and feel that it's a viable choice, I'm all ears. :)

[coreypolis]

Interesting the evolution in the market over the space of a decade. It used to be (in the 90's) that Quantum Radio Slaves were the high demand items, and Pocket Wizards were the high-priced alternative. What happened that Quantum fell out of favor and PW is the rage?
marketing.

[Wilt]

I am not an authority on radio slave devices, and I apologize if my previous post implied that.

I made that statement based on what I read, from people with more experience than me, in this forum and other sites such as strobist.com. I have also seen PocketWizards in use by many professionals.

If you have information or experience with Quantum's system and feel that it's a viable choice, I'm all ears. :)

Quantums were a two-channel device, but were preset at the factory to operate on one of 4 frequencies, A or B or C or D. So if you purchased additional receivers you had to buy the same frequency or it would not work with your transmitter.

PWs were a device that were digital encoded so that one PW should not interfere with another, but if it did, you could instantly reset the units so that you were encoded differently than another pro working the same location.

In all my years of wedding work, I never encountered anyone at the wedding who had Quantum RS, let alone the 1:4 coincidence of having the same frequency! So the encoded advantage of the PW was purely a paper tiger in that environment. Even in shooting at photographic workshops with other Quantums in the room I had not run into an interference problem. Admitedly there are circumstances (like pro shooters at a sporting event) where conflicts could arise, and the PW would be a much better unit to consider. But considering the price advantage of the Quantum, (unless PW has come down in price) the Quantum is a reliable and professional quality alternative that can save the enthisiast/hobbist (and even professional) money!