Upgrade to the PRO 1 or D Rebel?? [Archive] - Canon Digital Photography Forums

kanwingshing

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 14:55

I think the decision hugely depend on your own life style and goal in photography. If you are a photographer and already has a selection of EOS lens, 300D would be an obvious choice. But if you are just an occasional photographer, haven't start up an EOS lens collection, then it might be a good time to think about your goal as a photographer during this upgrade I think. Cause I think if eventually you want to be more serious about this hobby, 300D or even 10D would be a better choice.
But for me, if you don't want to go this DEEP yet, maybe you should stay with your G right now. I just looked at the sample gallery of Pro1 from Canon. I must say that I am not too impressed with the sensor/processor quality.

roanjohn

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 15:06

I think you should say entry level DSLR, not necessarily D-Rebel. :D

_Man_

You're right!!! I'll edit it...............

OOPsss..........I can't!!!.........oh well

Ro1

KRDV

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 15:25

Well, I answered Pro1 but that assumes several things. First, I am happy with my G3 (so I could have stopped there) and I am just not sure if I want to upgrade at all ($$$). If I do, the Pro1 would be my leading contender at this point (I think) but only IF I can use some of my existing G3 accessories (battery, teleconverter, etc.) and if the reviews show impressive image quality (not mind-blowing but very good possibly equal to "G3 quality" but double pixel count. If so, then I will seriously consider it. If not, then I am happy with my G3 and I don't see buying anything else this year.

mookiemeister

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 15:47

I got my G3 less than a year ago. It has so many features I've barely scratched my G3's full potential. I don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon.

Deckyon

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 15:50

Need to add an "other" to this list. IF I upgrade, it will be to a 10D or equiv if discontinued.

pradeep1

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 16:56

I got my G3 less than a year ago. It has so many features I've barely scratched my G3's full potential. I don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon.

I'll probably get the Pro1 or whatever is current at the time when my G3 starts to die out. Maybe another 95,000 photos later. I'll have that along with my dSLR. At the rate I am taking photos, I'll reach the G3's CCD's death point maybe in two years time. :lol:

pingupingu

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 17:14

msvadi

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 19:59

i agree with pingupingu.
may be 2 years from now there will be a 12MP DSLR selling for $800.

Duke107

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 20:16

Man-Fai Wong

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 20:46

I'm going Pro 1 Baby!!!, Not that the 8mp excites me but the lense does. I only say pro 1 rather than a DSLR because my photography is of mostly people and real life experiences, holidays and family outings. My G2 has done wonders for me there but I want the faster, better, L 7x lense. I am not into carring bags of gear and swaping lenses, thats just me. Pro 1 Baby!!!

But if "real life experiences" includes shooting available light indoors, then you might still want a DSLR.

Nothing wrong w/ a 300D + 28-135IS for that, if you're really shooting mostly people. Yeah, it's still heavier/bulkier than the Pro1, but that's a nice combo though (from what I hear) and will allow you to handhold low light shots w/out having to introduce lots of noise.

_Man_

Duke107

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 21:31

Well lets see what the noise levels are from the pro 1

onehotrx7

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 23:02

I went from the G2 to 10D - I could have upgraded to the G3 and subsequently G5 with no loss of cash, as I work for a Canon distributor so get both the right prices and could have sold at the right time... however, to my eye there was very little point - the 10D was within my price range, gave the interchangeable lenses I was longing for, and most importantly, a huge, huge improvement in image quality at high ISO... whereas I avoided shooting at 200 ISO on the G2, I shoot happily at 800 & 1600 ISO on the 10D - the 300D offers you all those advantages, whilst keeping the menu format you're familiar with from a 'G' - it's a logical UPGRADE, whereas any 'G' to another compact digital is just stepping from one unit to another - the difference in capability between a compact and a Dslr is huge...

OK, if the new series is DRASTICALLY cheaper, it may be an attractive prospect, but anyone spending anywhere near the price of a 300D/Rebel kit on a digital compact has to either have the proverbial rocks in their head, or more money than sense...

Cheers,
Stuart

Cheers,
Stuart

Duke107

9th of February 2004 (Mon), 23:21

Stuart,

It really is a matter of taste, I do not want to lug lenses and a big bulky cam around. I want point and shoot with the extra manual controls. As u know the G cams are slow to focus and one of the biggest complaints is u miss the "shot". That is my therory behind the pro 1 over my G2 (which by the way I love). That is an upgrade to my desires not the Drebel. Keep in mind I am a novice photographer who wants a decent P&S cam, I do not make a living nor intend to with photography, I just want the best P&S cam that is ready in a moment to get a great shot.

KRDV

10th of February 2004 (Tue), 00:01

OK, if the new series is DRASTICALLY cheaper, it may be an attractive prospect, but anyone spending anywhere near the price of a 300D/Rebel kit on a digital compact has to either have the proverbial rocks in their head, or more money than sense...

Cheers,
Stuart

Cheers,
Stuart

Maybe, but IMO making such sweeping and generalizing statements aint exactly too smart either. Some (like me) are avoiding DSLR b/c I like the "all-in-one" solution of the G series but like the advancement of technology. Now I just need to figure out whether I have the rocks problem or too little sense. :roll:

pradeep1

10th of February 2004 (Tue), 17:43

to upgrade , the best is to wait more to see what real progress they will do. Perhaps they will have cheap one a 50 1600 asa without noise 11mp , very good optical zoom to have 40*60 cm pictures , very good optical viewfinder, associated to rotating LCD.

i think that in 2 years it will be ok.

i joke, but the best is to wait and see what concurrence will do ...

PinguPingu...are you the infamous G3 user from photo.net? I remember that I actually leaned towards buying my first G3 after seeing your work on photo.net. I am glad you joined this group!

Duke107

10th of February 2004 (Tue), 19:01

Its not rocket science that Canon has invested all their time and money in producing multiple camera formats, If by Stuarts thinking, Canon only need bother with the 1D cam and stop wasting their R&D on anything else!

roanjohn

10th of February 2004 (Tue), 23:36

Whats interesting is how Canon priced this product.

At 999 USD, it is equal to thier entry level DSLR (300D)........

As an average consumer, I would probably go for the higher mpx count, longer zoom and portability.

But as an avid photographer (whatever 'avid' means to you), I think its pretty much a no-brainer (for me at least). For the same price, I can get a DSLR w/ much better image quality and almost non-existent shutter lag (two important things a camera should offer IMHO).

So I guess we'll have to see when the review comes how the PRO 1 handles noise/PF and how fast it captures split-second moments.

Ro1

Duke107

10th of February 2004 (Tue), 23:51

I think we forget sometimes what some of us want in a camera, I am after top of the line P&S cameras, I am not after entry level DSLR, I could also save a bundle and buy a 3.2 MP Kodak P&S or if in the market for a entry level DSLR buy a 300D. I am G series to maybe a Pro 1 (if reviews are favourable) P&S type photographer, If I wanted a DSLR I would at min buy a 10D if not better. Money is not the issue with selecting the right cam, to me $999 Pro 1 is not unreasonable if the cam performs well. If thats the price thats the cost ( I never pay retail anyways ).

onehotrx7

11th of February 2004 (Wed), 01:07

So I guess no one feels that 'Pro 1' just happens to be a marketing name, right?? How many 'Pro' photographers are going to take a Pro 1 over a digital SLR?? If it's a 'Pro' camera, will it count towards my pro club membership with Canon - I don't think so, that's still TWO Mid to high end bodies, digital or film, and a qualified quantity of lenses... But how many people out there will get a Pro 1 because they think they're getting a 'Pro' camera??

Cheers,
Stuart

Duke107

11th of February 2004 (Wed), 01:32

I will agree with u there, Canon should have stuck the G on that cam but they must have felt they needed a more catchy marketing name. I'm certain lots of people will walk in and have the salesman convince them its as good or better than a DSLR. Unfortunately today its about profits and not always about building the best product, we G or pro 1 users (ones who do eventually buy) will need a reason to buy a Pro2, Pro3 and a Pro5.
And the big wheel keeps turning!

Andy_T

11th of February 2004 (Wed), 08:57

Duke107

11th of February 2004 (Wed), 17:41

Do u think that means a G6 is still to come this year or next? If so maybe they will stick with 5MP but fix the shutter lag which is my only real complaint with my G2.

phili1

12th of February 2004 (Thu), 22:43

Pro 1 is on Canon web site.
The zoom shows you the MM digital and 35mm comparison.
The viewfinder has been changed like the Minoltas. Electronic 100%.
The focusing has been improved, faster more accurate.
Macro now has a super macro.
The zoom is now 200mm.
I am not sure which sensor it has.
DPreview says the maual focus has been improved but you cant tell on the Canon site.
It has threads for filters. and a positive lens cap.
Its the same size as the G5.
It has a pop up flash.
It shutter speed range is greater. Lower settings.
With its 1.5 tele extender you are at 300mm.

I have Eos lenses so I am still leaning towards the 10D but it sounds like a great alternative if the sensor allows you better noise reduction at higher ISO'S. It would be a definate upgrade decision for me. A four piece camera bag take you throught the enitre gammit.

bwb s30

15th of February 2004 (Sun), 11:23

the Pro 1 has an electronic viewfinder ... which i will NEVER go for.

I'm waiting for the price to drop on the 10D .. wishful thinking I know <sigh>

phili1

15th of February 2004 (Sun), 12:25

The electronic viewfinder will give you 100% coverage, like looking into your LCD. It gives you actual view of the scene. what you see is what you get. I like it.

Andy_T

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 08:27

The electronic viewfinder will give you 100% coverage, like looking into your LCD. It gives you actual view of the scene. what you see is what you get. I like it.

As on many issues, there's always more than one opinion - also on the EVF.

Pro:
- Full coverage of sensor, no parallax difference
- possibility to superimpose settings (e.g. f-stop, shutter speed)
- cheaper than optical system

Con:
- It ain't optical - the quality of preview is nowhere near that of a DSLR. Try judging the effect of a polarizing filter in the EVF.

I'd rather have a real optical sensor.

That said, I'll wait for the next interesting DSLR to upgrade and keep my G2 as walk-around-cam.

Regards,
Andy

phili1

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 09:27

I have been using an optical system for 30 plus years and it was hard for me to use the LCD, With that said I saw a framing difference that pleased me. Most SLR have only 80 to 85% field coverage thru the viewfinder (unless you own the best of the best)and no matter how good you are its a guesstimate on viewfinder cropping. I find that with electronic you can attach a seperate viewfined system like the video cams which when doing macro and Portrait is a plus. If the electronic viewfinder gives you what you see in an optical then its ok with me.

Like I said I, own the lenses for the 10D but it's tweking my interest if the noise in the upper ISO has been satisfied.

Man-Fai Wong

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 13:32

Never owned an SLR, but the entry level DSLRs have 95% coverage in their OVF. Not as good as 100%, but pretty close. I hear complaints about EVF having a bothersome blackout period between shots and also can have refresh rate issues. Of course, it's possible that Canon provides a better EVF than previous models from other makers.

As for better focus performance, I wouldn't count on much beyond improved worst-case scenario w/ their new hybrid system. It seems to only add an IR-based triangulation method to help keep the system from hunting for a long time, but still relies on the old system to pinpoint the focus. That's probably good enough for many people, but doesn't sound like it'll compare to DSLRs.

As for noise, I wouldn't count on improved noise performance either. There's nothing to suggest that'll happen. I'd think Canon would be hyping about it if so. :D It's probably somewhat better than the competition, but probably not any better than G5. Unfortunately, the "L lens" loses some lens speed vs previous G-series models and don't add IS.

_Man_

sdommin

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 14:59

My G3 is getting very tired. I'm looking very seriously at the Pro-1. Actually, the Sony F828 appeared to me to be the perfect camera until I saw all that CA. I hope Canon saw it too.

phili1

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 22:54

I can't compare what I do not have but the Eos Elan camera is 85%.

As far as the black out I used the minolta and it was like a mirror black out with a film SLR., and when you look through a G3 or 5 view finder what do you see a useless eye piece with no information, so why knock an improvement. I will take it over the G3, and I love the G3.

Based on the pre review it's a new sensor so I do not know how you know it hasn't improved.

And according to the pre review the focus incorporate two systems one for speed and a fine adjustment for accurecy. It was indicated that it is faster and better then the current models but I have not seen or used it so it hearsay but the source is a good one.

Now if you want to tell me that at $999 you will take the Rebel, I can buy that but what if they reduce the price that compares to the G3-5 it becomes attractive.

Now if I am a $999 buyer and I do not have lenses Then I am looking at with a good lens $1200 to 1300 lets say a small zoom and with one to compare to the outer extremem of the Pro1 lens lets say an addtional $300, now your talking about a difference of $600, the Pro1 looks real good now.

Hey just my opinion, but you can make an argument either way, for /or against.
I will agree that none will focuse like an SLR but it is defeinetly an improvement over the current pro summer cameras.

Duke107

16th of February 2004 (Mon), 23:10

One key fundamental is constantly missed as far as i'm concerned. The Pro 1 is a TOP of the line P&S prosumer camera, the drebel is a entry level Bottom of the Canon DSLR line camera. And to those die hards, a DSLR better take better pictures than a P&S camera, why else would u invest so much cash into lenses and gear not to mention lug it around.

msvadi

22nd of February 2004 (Sun), 17:23

I've been thinking about that upgrade issue and decided to check DRebel specifications more carefully. May be I'm wrong, but there is no spot metering on DRebel. The absence of flash compensation is odd, but no spot metering - it's just ridiculous. Does it really help to keep the cost down? My old Olympus Stylus Epic (<$100 point and shoot) has spot metering.

I do not believe anymore that DRebel is an attractive upgrage option and I see why many people will choose Pro-1 over DRebel. I think that DRebel will disappear very soon. I'm sure that release of Nikon D70 will push Canon to design a better DSLR at the DRebel price range. I wonder if CMOS vs CCD makes lots of difference. Because if not, then may be it's "so long" Canon and "hello" Nikon ;)

twl845

22nd of February 2004 (Sun), 18:44

:idea:
Buying a digital camera is like buying a computer. Always buy the most you can possibly afford and way more than you need, because 2 years from now what you bought will be just about enough to get the job done. Has anyone held a pro 1 in their hands yet? Wait and see if another more advanced camera might be a better choice rather than just buy the latest rage.

msvadi

22nd of February 2004 (Sun), 19:18

:idea:
Has anyone held a pro 1 in their hands yet? Wait and see if another more advanced camera might be a better choice rather than just buy the latest rage.

good point. let's wait for "field reports" ;)

phili1

22nd of February 2004 (Sun), 21:07

Well I have seen picture from the Digital Rebel at 1600 ISO with almost no noise, so I would say that is a good enought reason to buy it.

roanjohn

23rd of February 2004 (Mon), 00:17

Well I have seen picture from the Digital Rebel at 1600 ISO with almost no noise, so I would say that is a good enought reason to buy it.

Right on!!! I just got the Rebel and the difference is an eye opener. I am floored!!! I'm still looking at the pictures I took and my jaw is still dropping (and this is with the kit lens!!!). The low noise/high ISO allows me to take gorgeous indoor shots w/o flash. Thanks Canon!!!

Ro1

msvadi

23rd of February 2004 (Mon), 00:30

Well I have seen picture from the Digital Rebel at 1600 ISO with almost no noise, so I would say that is a good enought reason to buy it.

it's hard to argue with. don't get me wrong, i think that a DLSR is the best upgrade, but i'm going to skip the DRebel.

Man-Fai Wong

23rd of February 2004 (Mon), 21:11

CCD can yield low noise results too. It's all in the actual implementation that matters. For example, Fuji's S2Pro uses their SuperCCD and yields the lowest noise amongst <=$2K DSLRs. And the Nikon's are pretty low noise also although they are not quite as low at low ISOs but better at the very high end.

As for spot metering, actually, the 10D doesn't have it either, so it's not just the D-Rebel. OTOH, I guess the partial meter works close enough for many users.

_Man_

msvadi

23rd of February 2004 (Mon), 23:48

As for spot metering, actually, the 10D doesn't have it either, so it's not just the D-Rebel.

I did not know that

sprockett

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 01:19

sorry, but honestly? if u have no canon lenses, go for the nikon d70...
MUCH better than drebel, and same price.

Andy_T

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 04:06

Don't base your decision for one system (Canon vs. Nikon) solely on one attractive camera, especially if you're talking about a price difference of 300-400$ (D70 vs. 10D). Most likely you'll spend more on lenses in the future.

I *do* have some Nikon lenses and a 601 body leftover. However, I've made up my mind to go for a Canon DSLR (10D, 1DI, or whatever comes out at Photakina), as they seem to have the more attractive lens roundup medium to long-term.

But hey, that's only my opinion.

Regards,
Andy

sprockett

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 04:39

what andy says its true..

u do have to analyse the lens line up as well.... if u feel canon's lineup suits u more, go for it...

i was previously a canon shooter,

but recently sold all my gear in anticipation of PMA....

right now, that CAMERA wise, the best product right now for my price range is the d70.. in fact, i'd have to say OBJECTIVELY , hands down it is the best product...

i also feel that nikon's range of lenses right now suit me superbly.
from the excellent cheap 50/1.8 to the SUPERB 12-24 dx.

Right now, nikon offers the absolute WIDEST angle zoom for any non full frame dslr user.

if i were to go for a 10D, the best i'd be getting is 16-35mm x 1.6.

right now nikon offers me 12-24 x 1.5. Thats 18mm(true) worth of wide angle!

I used to be partial to canon, but after checking out nikon stuff, i realise that both are as good as each other... im tending to lean slightly more towards nikon, because of their more reliable cameras for the prosumer slr shooter. D100 i have to say is more bug free/ AF problem free/metering problem free than the 10d or 300D. If the d70 is that way too, the choice is clear to me.

However, if u feel canon's lense range is more suited for your style of shooting, stick with canon... but i feel the two ranges more or less parallel each other, with nikons being slightly better with the 12-24...

Andy_T

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 08:20

Sprocket,

true, the Nikon 12-24 gives you a hell of a wide angle on the D70... how's image quality?

I haven't seen any reviews of the lens so far, but the reviews of its Canon counterpart, the Sigma 12-24 did not really convince me.

I'm also a wide angle fan ... my current line of thought is to check out the D1MarkI or Kodak DCS 560 (both used) with the 17-40L to give me 17*1.3 = 22 mm.

Regards,
Andy

sprockett

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 14:21

hi andy, i too am AMAZED by the 12-24... it really is a ridiculously good lens... optial quality, sharpness, minimal chromatic aberrations, nikon really has a winner... there is minimal loss on quality towards the edge of the image at any aperture.... even wide open!

i would have to say it AT LEAST equals the 17-40L f4.

for good pictures: check out:
http://www.stereografx.com/review/nikon1224.htm

check out these reviews, not many good images but it gives u an idea:
http://www.naturfotograf.com/AFS12-24DX_rev00.html
http://www.bythom.com/1224lens.htm

Since u already have some nikon lenses from ur 601, why not just get the D70 body, and possibly a 12-24 (RP is around 900+US) I can DEFINITELY guarantee that you will be VERY VERY impressed with Nikon's range of DSLRs. I used to be a staunch canonian, and thought the world of 10d. No doubt the 10d is a very good cam, i feel NIKON's D100 and upcoming d70 are better than the 10d. Not to mention the 12-24 which makes them even sweeter. For its price point, its ridiculously good! With a fast CF card, specs say it can take up to a 144 Large Normal jpegs per burst! Not to mention 2000 shots per batt charge. (and i thought the 10d was already good)

The key points of why the d70 is better is MUCH more reliable flash metering... ittl is MUCH MUCH more accurate than ettl (not sure abt ettl2).. although not as good when bouncing flashes.

sprockett

25th of February 2004 (Wed), 14:26

oh yes, here's a good objective review comparing 10d to D100...
http://www.stereografx.com/review/compare.htm

however, with the improvements of d70 over D100, im pretty sure d70 will be a better camera , (at least until 10d Mkii).

D70 has a refined sensor based on the D100, and based on initial shots, people have found that it has less noise, and better color than the d100, (which was already superb)...

KRDV

27th of February 2004 (Fri), 13:10

I am sure that many have seen them but there are now some Pro1 samples at http://www.dcresource.com/#. Looks like the full review may be coming in the next week or so. :lol:

roanjohn

27th of February 2004 (Fri), 16:08

I am sure that many have seen them but there are now some Pro1 samples at http://www.dcresource.com/#. Looks like the full review may be coming in the next week or so. :lol:

Not bad at all!!! No obvious PF/CA.

I want to know how fast it focus.

I think this will be a good camera.

Ro1

Andy_T

27th of February 2004 (Fri), 16:09

Since u already have some nikon lenses from ur 601, why not just get the D70 body, and possibly a 12-24 (RP is around 900+US) I can DEFINITELY guarantee that you will be VERY VERY impressed with Nikon's range of DSLRs. I used to be a staunch canonian, and thought the world of 10d. No doubt the 10d is a very good cam, i feel NIKON's D100 and upcoming d70 are better than the 10d. Not to mention the 12-24 which makes them even sweeter. For its price point, its ridiculously good! With a fast CF card, specs say it can take up to a 144 Large Normal jpegs per burst! Not to mention 2000 shots per batt charge. (and i thought the 10d was already good)

The key points of why the d70 is better is MUCH more reliable flash metering... ittl is MUCH MUCH more accurate than ettl (not sure abt ettl2).. although not as good when bouncing flashes.

Sprocket,

actually, I was quite happy with the 601 and gave the D100 (and Fuji Pro1 and Kodak DCS models based on Nikon cameras) some consideration.

However, at the moment I have the impression that Canon's lens roundup has more to offer. [too much reading this forum] I'm also quite happy with my G2 and the way it feels.

The lenses I have from Nikon are consumer grade lenses (24-50 Sigma, 35-70 Nikkor, 70-210 Tokina, most likely the the 1.8/50 Nikkor is the only decent lens) and I have the feeling they will not perform optimally on a DSLR (unless Nikon manages to get great sharp pictures out of mediocre glass).

That's why I'm leaning more towards Canon at the moment. I also have the impression that Nikon is lagging behind ... their new D2H competes with the 1D launched about 2 years ago and so on.

Interesting sidenote - I saw the D100 today at a reputed photo dealer that still sticks the ridiculous EUR 1800 price tag to it (they're offering the 10D for about 1500 now). Who is going to buy that now the D70 is announced???

Kind regards,
Andy

Keith_M42

27th of February 2004 (Fri), 16:58

I will very likely be getting a Pro 1. I have a G2, and the Pro 1 is about double as good in just about every dept. Twice as many mp, more than twice the optical zoom, more than twice as close, twice the movie resolution, or time at my current resolution, twice as much processing speed, bigger and better LCD size and resolution. And all at less than twice the price I paid for my G2. In addition it advertizes a better lens (we'll see what the reviews say) and I think I read somewhere it has less grainyness or noise at the higher ISO's (?). In other regards, it's lighter, smaller, no additional lenses needed (for me), and is similar in layout, feel, and function to the G2 - all important things for my wife who doesn't like to fool around with differences, much less deal with choices of settings, lenses, etc. It's versitile enough for most of what I do, and even better than what we have for my wife. We'll likely be picking up the Pro 1 when it's available to be seen and felt and we're satisfied that it can deliver as promised, and it's available out of the local discount store.

Keith