Upgrade PC now or later?

[tim]

I have a home built Athlon 3500+ (single core, socket 939) with 2GB RAM and two hard drives (both almost full). I'm finding that in bridge if i've got it converting RAW to JPG in the background the UI isn't responsive at all, and it means I have to wait for the PC - not something I like doing. I have something like 10 weddings over the next 2 months, so workflow speed could become an issue, because i'll also be working 3 days a week in a regular job. I need a faster PC to help save some time.

My question is upgrade now, or upgrade later? If I upgrade now I can get a dual core Athlon X2 4600+ for US$320, the rest of my system will stay the same. Bridge should work quite a bit faster.

The other option is to wait 6 months, throw away what I have now, and get a whole new motherboard/CPU/RAM. That'll cost more like US$1000-$1200, but should be quad core and with faster RAM.

I know waiting always gives you faster hardware, but what i'm wondering is with the rate of change in the area of multicore chips is waiting 6 months a better option? Alternately I could get the dual core chip for now, then in a year or when it seems to slow I can do the whole big upgrade.

Thoughts?

[grego]

Well with quad core coming, the duo core stuff should drop in price. I'd wait till after Christmas to look at the sales. I'm not sure if it works the same over where you are, but that's how I'm going to probably do it. Start building around January or February.

There you will have saved some money, but not waited too long. I think that's the best compromise.

[nwa2]

Have you considered networking an older generation PC (still capable of running bridge, or whatever your prefered package is) and keeping this as a dedicated machine.

Older generation PCs' are a lot cheaper and will do the job well. Allowing you to work on other tasks on another PC (may also be older generation).

[RgB]

Get something like the Mac Pro:D They have 4 internal HD bays i think up to 1TB, but just from memory. It's cheaper than the Dell equivalent and has many million custom build combinations.

[NickSimcheck]

Rumors are going around that Apple will announce an eight core Mac Pro system sometime around Jan/Feb, if it's under $5,000 I'll most likely pick one up.

[tim]

I like Gregos idea - wait until after xmas, that's my busy period. I'm just hoping that dual core gives me a good real world gain over my single core!

A $5K system doesn't help me much, I invest in tools for my business, no way could I justify an 8 core mac pro system. As a toy? Sure. No way my business can afford that right now though.

[grego]

I'm just hoping that dual core gives me a good real world gain over my single core!


Tim, if I beat you to the punch, I'll let you know. Because I use Bridge + CS2 as well.

[Billginthekeys]

I like Gregos idea - wait until after xmas, that's my busy period. I'm just hoping that dual core gives me a good real world gain over my single core!

A $5K system doesn't help me much, I invest in tools for my business, no way could I justify an 8 core mac pro system. As a toy? Sure. No way my business can afford that right now though.
i know just where you are coming from. i upgraded from a single core P4 2.4ghz. there was no way i could run bride and cs2 at the same time. now on my dual core machine it runs great. i would do what grego suggested, you have 2 gigs of ram, thats plenty to hold you off with the new cpu for at least a year.

ohh and ignore the mac freaks. no one can seem to let a windows thread (especially if it mentiones windows or pc in the thread) go by without worthlessly spamming it.

[RgB]

With Bridge i always leave a window that contains my RAW & another my JPG's open that way i don't have to wait for them to load the thumbnails.

I used to close it then a minute later open it again and wasted a lot of time.

[grego]

i know just where you are coming from. i upgraded from a single core P4 2.4ghz. there was no way i could run bride and cs2 at the same time. now on my dual core machine it runs great. i would do what grego suggested, you have 2 gigs of ram, thats plenty to hold you off with the new cpu for at least a year.

ohh and ignore the mac freaks. no one can seem to let a windows thread (especially if it mentiones windows or pc in the thread) go by without worthlessly spamming it.

Even then, the newer mother boards will allow for more ram, so a fairly easy(fairly inexpensive) upgrade can be made later to an already strong processor.

That's my take on it! :)

And on Quad Core.
The biggest problem with Quad core, even when it comes out, is applications that actually take advantage of its power. Its kinda like PS3,in the sense of it not even being fully utilized now. This is what I'm hearing from my even nerdier tech friends. :)

[davidcrebelxt]

I don't think a processor upgrade alone would make that big a difference... your 3500+ is what, 2.2ghz? That's not terrible... not a racehorse, but not terrible either. My first advice would be to make sure you're using up to data virus and spyware scanning tools.
A friend of mine's 1.5 ghz machine bogged down so bad he couldn't even print... after running spybot and adaware, it found a bunch of junk... ever since he can print fine. There's no doubt, though a faster processor can help intesive tasks like photoshop... but I don't think it should be hogging the resources likes its doing on your machine.

[grego]

^^Good point brought up. That's why its good to have your C Drive with very little on it allowing you to reformat from time to time, to keep it clean without issues. That would also help keep the computer running at maximum levels as the registry often gets cluttered.

[tzphotos.com]

I don't think a processor upgrade alone would make that big a difference... your 3500+ is what, 2.2ghz? That's not terrible... not a racehorse, but not terrible either. My first advice would be to make sure you're using up to data virus and spyware scanning tools.
A friend of mine's 1.5 ghz machine bogged down so bad he couldn't even print... after running spybot and adaware, it found a bunch of junk... ever since he can print fine. There's no doubt, though a faster processor can help intesive tasks like photoshop... but I don't think it should be hogging the resources likes its doing on your machine.

It's not about Ghz anymore. The new Intel Core2Duo are much faster chips even at lower Ghz speeds. I just picked up a E6600 which clocks at 2.4ghz and it is much faster than my old 3.06 ghz P4 and that is even when something is just running on one side of the core.

I also believe the prices will be coming down on the dual core processors once the quad cores production starts ramping up.

I only have 2 Gigs of RAM and this is where my bottleneck is. I wish the price of 1 Gig or even 2 Gig Ram modules would come down in price.

[tim]

My PC is fine, I run antivirus and adware scans regularly, and I have a hardware firewall. My degree is in computers, i'm the person people call when things go wrong.

The limitation of my PC is that when I batch process RAWs to JPG nothing else can run at the same time. My CPU limits at 100% use for a couple of hours usually. The main thing I want to run while bridge is doing batch conversion is the bridge file browser. If it's multi-threaded it'll be a 100% speedup there. RAM usage isn't an issue, when i'm batching it sits on 50% used - so 1GB free.

[tim]

If anyone has a dual core processor and wants to help out, would they mind trying this for me? Doesn't matter about brand of processor.

Basically what i'd like to do is to open CS2 bridge with only one core allocated to it, browse to a directory of RAW files, and have it batch convert them to JPG. At the same time use the bridge UI to open ACR and view other raw images, tweak exposure and contrast, that sort of thing. Just 30 seconds worth to see how responsive the UI is.

Then i'd like bridge restarted, with two cores allocated. Do the same thing, and see if it's more responsive.

Anyone able to help out?

[chevysales]

I have a home built Athlon 3500+ (single core, socket 939) with 2GB RAM and two hard drives (both almost full). I'm finding that in bridge if i've got it converting RAW to JPG in the background the UI isn't responsive at all, and it means I have to wait for the PC - not something I like doing. I have something like 10 weddings over the next 2 months, so workflow speed could become an issue, because i'll also be working 3 days a week in a regular job. I need a faster PC to help save some time.

My question is upgrade now, or upgrade later? If I upgrade now I can get a dual core Athlon X2 4600+ for US$320, the rest of my system will stay the same. Bridge should work quite a bit faster.

The other option is to wait 6 months, throw away what I have now, and get a whole new motherboard/CPU/RAM. That'll cost more like US$1000-$1200, but should be quad core and with faster RAM.

I know waiting always gives you faster hardware, but what i'm wondering is with the rate of change in the area of multicore chips is waiting 6 months a better option? Alternately I could get the dual core chip for now, then in a year or when it seems to slow I can do the whole big upgrade.

Thoughts?

a no brainer!

WAIT.


vista's release will show shortcomings of first generation hardware built for it... ie 90-120 days after vista's release most hardware manufacturers will have second generation vista hardware and DRIVERS up to snuff.

this of course also takes into account intels roadmap for the next 2 quarters.


now hardware alwasy changes in this industry but this across the board change doesn't happen all too often so one is best served getting the most out of it at optimal time.

and yes dell and the others have "vista" rready on most of thier offerings which IMO means nothing you surely may be able to run a new OS on certain setups but taking full capabilities out of it is another story.

the above means nada if you are a mac user.

[tim]

a no brainer!

WAIT.


vista's release will show shortcomings of first generation hardware built for it... ie 90-120 days after vista's release most hardware manufacturers will have second generation vista hardware and DRIVERS up to snuff.

this of course also takes into account intels roadmap for the next 2 quarters.


now hardware alwasy changes in this industry but this across the board change doesn't happen all too often so one is best served getting the most out of it at optimal time.

and yes dell and the others have "vista" rready on most of thier offerings which IMO means nothing you surely may be able to run a new OS on certain setups but taking full capabilities out of it is another story.

the above means nada if you are a mac user.

Talking about Visa and Mac is off topic and not helpful, this is a specific question about whether dual core will give me advantages for what I want to do.

[Billginthekeys]

Talking about Visa and Mac is off topic and not helpful, this is a specific question about whether dual core will give me advantages for what I want to do.
i get the feeling some people just write whatever they feel like in pc advice threads.

[tim]

i get the feeling some people just write whatever they feel like in pc advice threads.

I think you're right bill.

Hopefully someone can have a play with a dual core system to see if it gives a real world advantage. I've sent CDS a PM to see if he'll give it a go on his fancy new system too.

[Pekka]

I have now Athlon 3200+/3GB RAM/ about 3,000GB disks in WinXP pro system and this christmas I'll upgrade it to

motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
RAM: Corsair Twin2X 2x1GB DDR2 (maybe 2X, to 4GB)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Display adapter: Asus EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M
Case: Antec Performance One P18 / Antec TP3-650 EC TruePower

Apart from doing photos I like to play games, that is why the display adapter is quite a monster. I can let you know how the system feels when it is running. I'm pretty sure the difference is vast.

But I can tell you this now: dual CPU (I've had those) will make everything much smoother. Just like a bigger screen and more RAM. In the end, CPU MHz is not important any more.

[TooManyHobbies]

I'm waiting for MS Vista to come out first for a while before I upgrade. There is always new hardware that comes out to support the new operating system offering better speed and features.

It's been and will be a hard wait. I'm also waiting for CS3 to come out too. Then I'll redo everything again.

[Spoonford]

Tim, earlier this year I upgraded from an Athlon 2400+ with 2gb to an X2 4400+ with 3gb of RAM. I also changed my C drive to a pair of 10,000 rpm 36gb WD Raptors configured in RAID 0.

I found the speed increase to be immense. Obvioulsy my upgrade was a larger step than yours as my 2400+ was quite old and I upgraded RAM, mobo and storage all at the same time. I will say that my dual core AMD system at home handled CS2 and the bridge better than my Intel P4 3.4ghz system at work.

I would do the test you requested but unfortunatley my PC is on a boat somewhere between England and Australia :S

edit: Also got speed increases in general and in CS2 by making sure XP was set for best performance, no extra junk was running in the background and that there was plenty of space on my system and storage drives.

[JMHPhotography]

I feel so insignificant... ;-) I have only an AMD 64 3000+ It was a 3300+ but the fan stopped working and the CPU fried itself so now I'm waiting for the replacement CPU. I'm actually going to build a new system after the first of the year and I was going dual core. Tim, what will happen with the dual core is you'll still see one core at 100% util.. but the advantage is that you can still run other things because of the dual core CPU. If you want to see some serious gains in performance, you probably should look into building a SATA 300 striped raid array to kick the performance up. Yeah, you give up fault tolerance going with Raid 0, but if you're using a single disk with no raid, you have none anyway. Just back up regularly like you should be doing now anyway... especially with images. The hard drive system is the weakest link of EVERY computer system. Any time you can boost performance there, you will have noticable gains.

edit: I take back the part about being at 100%... aparently Photoshop is written to utilize muli-core processing.

[tim]

Thanks for all the comments everyone! :)

I have now Athlon 3200+/3GB RAM/ about 3,000GB disks in WinXP pro system and this christmas I'll upgrade it to

motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
RAM: Corsair Twin2X 2x1GB DDR2 (maybe 2X, to 4GB)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Display adapter: Asus EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M
Case: Antec Performance One P18 / Antec TP3-650 EC TruePower

Apart from doing photos I like to play games, that is why the display adapter is quite a monster. I can let you know how the system feels when it is running. I'm pretty sure the difference is vast.

But I can tell you this now: dual CPU (I've had those) will make everything much smoother. Just like a bigger screen and more RAM. In the end, CPU MHz is not important any more.

That'll be a nice system. Core2 duo is probably 2 generations newer than my Athlon 3500+ so it should run a LOT faster.

Tim, earlier this year I upgraded from an Athlon 2400+ with 2gb to an X2 4400+ with 3gb of RAM. I also changed my C drive to a pair of 10,000 rpm 36gb WD Raptors configured in RAID 0.

I found the speed increase to be immense. Obvioulsy my upgrade was a larger step than yours as my 2400+ was quite old and I upgraded RAM, mobo and storage all at the same time. I will say that my dual core AMD system at home handled CS2 and the bridge better than my Intel P4 3.4ghz system at work.

Good to know - this indicates things will be faster for me, but i'd still appreciate if anyone with dual/quad core can do that test and see if it makes a difference in the real world.

I feel so insignificant... ;-) I have only an AMD 64 3000+ It was a 3300+ but the fan stopped working and the CPU fried itself so now I'm waiting for the replacement CPU. I'm actually going to build a new system after the first of the year and I was going dual core. Tim, what will happen with the dual core is you'll still see one core at 100% util.. but the advantage is that you can still run other things because of the dual core CPU. If you want to see some serious gains in performance, you probably should look into building a SATA 300 striped raid array to kick the performance up. Yeah, you give up fault tolerance going with Raid 0, but if you're using a single disk with no raid, you have none anyway. Just back up regularly like you should be doing now anyway... especially with images. The hard drive system is the weakest link of EVERY computer system. Any time you can boost performance there, you will have noticable gains.

edit: I take back the part about being at 100%... aparently Photoshop is written to utilize muli-core processing.

That multi-processing thing is what i'm really trying to test. I don't think disk comes into this at all, I can see that the disks are ticking over quite slowly - it's definitely CPU limited.

[Billginthekeys]

I have now Athlon 3200+/3GB RAM/ about 3,000GB disks in WinXP pro system and this christmas I'll upgrade it to

motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
RAM: Corsair Twin2X 2x1GB DDR2 (maybe 2X, to 4GB)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Display adapter: Asus EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M
Case: Antec Performance One P18 / Antec TP3-650 EC TruePower

Apart from doing photos I like to play games, that is why the display adapter is quite a monster. I can let you know how the system feels when it is running. I'm pretty sure the difference is vast.

But I can tell you this now: dual CPU (I've had those) will make everything much smoother. Just like a bigger screen and more RAM. In the end, CPU MHz is not important any more.
wow pekka you are pulling out all stops. that gpu is sick. i hear it plays even the current top games at about 190fps. thats insane.

[tzphotos.com]

If anyone has a dual core processor and wants to help out, would they mind trying this for me? Doesn't matter about brand of processor.

Basically what i'd like to do is to open CS2 bridge with only one core allocated to it, browse to a directory of RAW files, and have it batch convert them to JPG. At the same time use the bridge UI to open ACR and view other raw images, tweak exposure and contrast, that sort of thing. Just 30 seconds worth to see how responsive the UI is.

Then i'd like bridge restarted, with two cores allocated. Do the same thing, and see if it's more responsive.

Anyone able to help out?

I don't really use Bridge, but would be willing to help out. How would I tell Bridge to only use one core?

[tim]

I don't really use Bridge, but would be willing to help out. How would I tell Bridge to only use one core?

Start bridge, then open windows task manager (hit control - shift - esc). Click on the processes tab, right click on bridge, and tell it to use one core. To use two cores is just a minor variation at the end of that. Thanks! :)

[rfreschner]

Hopefully someone can have a play with a dual core system to see if it gives a real world advantage.

Tim - I gave it a quick go and it definitely does make a difference. When running on one core, it was a noticeable delay opening other images in ACR. When running on both, they opened rather quickly. There was some hesitation in getting the image to refresh when dragging the exposure slider with the alt key down, but nothing I can't live with.

P.S. - Running an Intel Pentium D 3.0 GHz with 2GB RAM

[TooManyHobbies]

How about running filters or processing very large 170MP images?

[rfreschner]

How about running filters or processing very large 170MP images?

Sorry, heading off to be now. But, I can give it a try tomorrow. :)

[tim]

Tim - I gave it a quick go and it definitely does make a difference. When running on one core, it was a noticeable delay opening other images in ACR. When running on both, they opened rather quickly. There was some hesitation in getting the image to refresh when dragging the exposure slider with the alt key down, but nothing I can't live with.

P.S. - Running an Intel Pentium D 3.0 GHz with 2GB RAM

Thanks Rick, much appreciated! Drop me a PM if I can help you out with anything.

I'll probably go ahead with the cheaper dual core upgrade, as that'll put off the need to upgrade the whole machine for another year or more. It's a tool for me much more than a toy.

[rfreschner]

Thanks Rick, much appreciated!

Not a problem Tim. Just remember this was highly unscientific and YMMV. :)

[corinto]

Tim,

What's bugging me is your comment about the 2 drives being almost full. That should be a big handicap in performance.

HIH

[grego]

Tim, i need to upgrade more so than you. Being the poor college student, I am I had to prioritize my buys.

I'm on a 2ghz Pent 4, with 512 ram!! :p

[Billginthekeys]

Tim, i need to upgrade more so than you. Being the poor college student, I am I had to prioritize my buys.

I'm on a 2ghz Pent 4, with 512 ram!! :p
ohh i feel for you man. i had a bit better than you. a P4 2.4 and 768 ram (i added 512 more to the original 256 :o). what a joy that was for photoshop ;) :lol:. im loving my new system though.

[tim]

Not a problem Tim. Just remember this was highly unscientific and YMMV. :)

That's ok, an indication that performance will increase is all I was after, thanks :)

What's bugging me is your comment about the 2 drives being almost full. That should be a big handicap in performance.

That's a good point. Disk really isn't being heavily used, it's all CPU bound, but I guess with a fragmented drive it might take a little more CPU to work out where to allocate the blocks of data. My gut feeling, not being an expert on the NTFS file system, is it's probably not too bad.

Incidentally "almost full" means 30GB or so free on each drive, so it's not too bad. 10% of the space, give or take.

Tim, i need to upgrade more so than you. Being the poor college student, I am I had to prioritize my buys.

I'm on a 2ghz Pent 4, with 512 ram!! :p

Wow. You need more RAM. As a college student you should have plenty of time to wait for the PC ;) My problem is i'm working at or near capacity, sometimes 16 hours a day, to keep all the balls in the air. I'm working to bring this down, this is only one way i'm doing it.

[Billginthekeys]

Incidentally "almost full" means 30GB or so free on each drive, so it's not too bad. 10% of the space, give or take.

10% should let you keep good performance, i certainly wouldnt let it drop below that though

[grego]

ohh i feel for you man. i had a bit better than you. a P4 2.4 and 768 ram (i added 512 more to the original 256 :o). what a joy that was for photoshop ;) :lol:. im loving my new system though.

Well, i got my computer a little before graduation in like May/Jun 2002. Then, i wasn't ready to build as I didn't know as much as I do now. So I got a Dell, but this mother board uses RDRAM, which flopped unfortunately. This ram is discontinued and finding more ram is just about impossible unless I want to pay a super amount. Just not worth upgrading anything on this current computer.



Wow. You need more RAM. As a college student you should have plenty of time to wait for the PC ;) My problem is i'm working at or near capacity, sometimes 16 hours a day, to keep all the balls in the air. I'm working to bring this down, this is only one way i'm doing it.

RAM kills me the most on Lightroom, when i've played with it. It's do-able on CS1. A little more harsh on CS2, but possible.

Well, as a student I can get software fairly priced. But I had to prioritize. My money went towards CS2 suite(200 dollars for whole package as student). And then of course all my photo gear, but I'm finallly done on the main(big costing) purchases.

So now its the bags, cards, computers. :)
But yes, I'm going to try and hold out as long as I can and try and get away with it.

So we'll see. :)
Definetely get jealous with the G5's in my newsroom that I use. Would have loved to have a computer that can handle Photoshop and Photo Mechanic without having to worry and wait for some time.

In the past 2-3 years, i've spent near 10k. I could have had a super duper computer, but then probably woudln't need that(as I'm not a super gamer). Oh well, I get to photograph pretty girls and go to cool events!! :)

So computer, gets to wait. We'll see who gets started on the computer, first!! It's a race Tim!! :p

[lostdoggy]

I recently, with in the pass few months upgrade to the Pentium D 805 and an Intel MoBo. Using mostly old component it show a significant improvement in speed, but adding a 250GB SATA solely for PS Caching made even a bigger improvement. Right Now I have 2-PATA HDD and 1-SATA HDD w/ the primary PATA HDD running the OS and S/W and the 2nd-PATA holding the data and the solo SATA Caching. There is also 2-EXT HDD for data Backup.

Before the duo Core even w/1.5GB of RAM system would just stop when I'm converting RAW in C1Pro forget about running PS. Now I can run C1Pro and still be able to run PSCS2 as though nothing is running in the back ground. This is from a cheapy $100 CPU/MOBO upgrade. The SAT HDD was $79 (Samsung unit OEM). But, because the 805 is from the old large die CPU it runs really hot so I'm currently running 2-12cm, 1-90mm, and 2-80mm fan.
Eventually, if I have time, I'll add a liquid CPU cooler this should drop the temp to a reasonable 30 deg C and if that works I'll change the MoBo to one that I could overclock and clock it from 2.66Ghz to 4.05Ghz.

[TooManyHobbies]

I feel severly outdated! I had a fast system once. It was the fastest thing out there 5 years ago and held its ground for a long time.

[Billginthekeys]

Well, i got my computer a little before graduation in like May/Jun 2002. Then, i wasn't ready to build as I didn't know as much as I do now. So I got a Dell, but this mother board uses RDRAM, which flopped unfortunately. This ram is discontinued and finding more ram is just about impossible unless I want to pay a super amount. Just not worth upgrading anything on this current computer.

once again i was in the same boat. got a dimension 8200 with that stupid RD ram. one 256 stick was $150 a year ago when i put in more. and you have to run them in identicle pairs. so stupid. you can get 2gigs of DDR ram for that. so yea, my parents got me a new laptop for college. meanwhile im keeping up a parts list at newegg, and someday when i get a bigger dorm and some excess cash ill build a wicked new system.

[tim]

I recently, with in the pass few months upgrade to the Pentium D 805 and an Intel MoBo. Using mostly old component it show a significant improvement in speed, but adding a 250GB SATA solely for PS Caching made even a bigger improvement. Right Now I have 2-PATA HDD and 1-SATA HDD w/ the primary PATA HDD running the OS and S/W and the 2nd-PATA holding the data and the solo SATA Caching. There is also 2-EXT HDD for data Backup.

Before the duo Core even w/1.5GB of RAM system would just stop when I'm converting RAW in C1Pro forget about running PS. Now I can run C1Pro and still be able to run PSCS2 as though nothing is running in the back ground. This is from a cheapy $100 CPU/MOBO upgrade. The SAT HDD was $79 (Samsung unit OEM). But, because the 805 is from the old large die CPU it runs really hot so I'm currently running 2-12cm, 1-90mm, and 2-80mm fan.
Eventually, if I have time, I'll add a liquid CPU cooler this should drop the temp to a reasonable 30 deg C and if that works I'll change the MoBo to one that I could overclock and clock it from 2.66Ghz to 4.05Ghz.

Sounds like a good system for a good price. I didn't think about hard disks, I think that's more applicable for Photoshop, especially with big documents or large documents. My disks aren't touched all that much so i'm not going to bother. I might still get another hard drive, so i'd have three, and use one as PS swap.

I feel severly outdated! I had a fast system once. It was the fastest thing out there 5 years ago and held its ground for a long time.

That's the way technology goes!

I've been looking at benchmarks, toms hardware has a great CPU comparison system, over a range of apps, including photoshop and other ones. The Athlon X2 4600+ (or 4400, or 4800, I forget) should in general almost double performance, and I think bridge will be a good bit faster. I can save US$80 by getting the 2nd fastest, and lose only about 5% of that performance - the only difference is it's 2.0GHz instead of 2.4GHz. So for around US$275 or so I can double my performance and keep the machine for another year or so, maybe more.

What I do need is a better CPU cooler, the ones that come with them are quite noisy. My Gigabyte has some fancy "dual power" thingy that you can put on the motherboard, i've no idea what it does, but it's optional and loud, so I think i'll remove it. I might get bigger slower case fans too.

[tim]

I just had a look at an Opteron 170, it costs about the same as an Athlon X2 4600+. The main difference is it has 2x1MB cache, and performs about the same. The big thing is you can overclock it by quite a bit, with stock cooler, and the performance really jumps (http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/opteron170/12.html). Not sure I want to overclock with my only PC though, since it's business critical.

[corinto]

motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
RAM: Corsair Twin2X 2x1GB DDR2 (maybe 2X, to 4GB)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Display adapter: Asus EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M

I think you got it wrong. This will not be a game machine. It will be a pro flight simulator flying on google-earth... with a lot of power to spare.

;)

[grego]

once again i was in the same boat. got a dimension 8200 with that stupid RD ram. one 256 stick was $150 a year ago when i put in more. and you have to run them in identicle pairs. so stupid. you can get 2gigs of DDR ram for that. so yea, my parents got me a new laptop for college. meanwhile im keeping up a parts list at newegg, and someday when i get a bigger dorm and some excess cash ill build a wicked new system.

Ouchy. I have a laptop, but would never put too much into a laptop as none are going to really do what i want. Mine is mainly for school and i bought it a little in the sense of my photography stuff. I actually shouldn't have even considered it at all.

But yeah, new computer coming in 2007 for me. 5 years later. Unfortunately I had to add more money into this Dell as the video card just overheated and died. But I'm glad its that and not the mother board, which would be harder to find.

[Billginthekeys]

Ouchy. I have a laptop, but would never put too much into a laptop as none are going to really do what i want. Mine is mainly for school and i bought it a little in the sense of my photography stuff. I actually shouldn't have even considered it at all.

But yeah, new computer coming in 2007 for me. 5 years later. Unfortunately I had to add more money into this Dell as the video card just overheated and died. But I'm glad its that and not the mother board, which would be harder to find.

yea... my parents didnt want me to get a desktop.... and they were paying so i couldnt complain haha. but i did get the monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse, so now all i need is the system itself.

sucks about the video card, i replaced mine to... of course just because i sucked beyond belief anymore.

[tim]

I just did my upgrade. I went from an Athlon 3500+ to an Athlon X2 4800+. I did VERY quick benchmarks on the apps that matter to me:
- CS3 Bridge, batch 11 images from RAW to Q12 JPG. X1 was 76sec, X2 was 42sec. That's a 45% improvement.
- PhotoJunction, batching 8 or so images to a JPG file ready for printing. X1 30 sec, X2 24 sec. That's a 20% improvement.

The PC is a lot more responsive in general. Bridge is more usable while it's batching images to JPG, but it's not a night and day, it's a moderate improvement. I'll uninstall Norton Antivirus one day and see if it makes any difference.

[Raphael Emond]

Dual core system are more powerfull that their single core brothers, but not by a very high margin. The main advantage of dual core system, is their fluidity. No more lock-up when a software use 100% cpu cycles. And since close to zero apps use multi-treaded code, the real advantage is not raw speed. The only software in my photo workflow that use 2 cores are Raw Shooter Premium. It's been only a little speedup.

I don't see an improvement to go 4-8 cores. Nearly no apps/games use the current 2 cores systems. Sure, you run the game on core 1 and the rest on core 2. But what you can do on 4-8 core systems??... I smell marketing gimmicks...

Good you like your upgrade. It will last you a little, till the next big upgrade. :)

[tim]

I plan to keep my two 20Ds for a couple of years at least, I think the PC should last that long too. Photoshop and JAlbum both speed up but 50-70% in general, batch jobs are a fair bit quicker.

In games they can be written to take advantage of many cores, but it'll take a few years for the developers to get good at it. One core can run sound, 1-2 can run enemy AI, you can split the screen into 4 and have each render a quarter of the screen... it's endless. But for most people 2-4 cores is heaps, it's just power users who'll notice the difference.

[Raphael Emond]

But from what I have read, the hardest part when doing multi-treaded games in the way you see it, is syncro. The issued command will not always be computed as the same speed depending on core loading.

Anyway, I'm sure they will find a way to harvest to power of the machines to come.
But I don't think we will see it before a year at least. If you take exemple on Flight Simulator X, the lastest MS game, which no PC on earth are powerfull enough to
run at max detail, even with SLI, it's not even dual core, and it's MS that coded it..
I find that a shame.

[tim]

Writing threaded code is hard, i've done a little of it, and nothing so complex as a game. It'll take time, should be easier in bridge and such :)

[Billginthekeys]

Anyway, I'm sure they will find a way to harvest to power of the machines to come.
But I don't think we will see it before a year at least. If you take exemple on Flight Simulator X, the lastest MS game, which no PC on earth are powerfull enough to
run at max detail, even with SLI, it's not even dual core, and it's MS that coded it..
I find that a shame.
i dont know about no computer on earth can run it at max detai, but its an intensive game for certain. But you also have to remember it was designed to be ran at DX10 not, DX9, so until vista comes out it cant be run at its highest anyway. I wouldnt call it a shame either, im glad that they truely pushed the limits of the system to provide a game that is truely next gen, whereas previous FS games seemed to be slight improvements of their previous versions. Lately the gaming industry has really sprung up with the "next generation" both on console and PC. Have you played Gears of War on the 360? that is about the most stunning thing i have ever seen. the graphics are so real, its like watching a movie and controlling one of the characters, the art direction is so well done. It definitly pushes the 360's hardware to deliver what it was made for. also, there is a new first person shooter coming out for PC this year called Crysis. it is set in a jungle, and has full destrucatable environment, trees that move with realistic physics when you move through them, soft shadows and completely realistic shadow and light maps. water that moves and breaks against the shore, moving rivers, ect. The breakthroughs in gaming in the last year or two have been great.

[KristinLeigh]

Ok I'm going to be honest...you can are talking a totally different language than me at this point :) But I did a search for "computer" and this is the thread I found.

I am about ready to throw my laptop out the window :) I have a SONY VAIO. I am wanting another desktop. I want something that is good for graphics and also something that I can use for doing school work and all that. Plus I will be putting all of my photography stuff on it also.

Any help? I don't know jack about computers :(

[Billginthekeys]

Ok I'm going to be honest...you can are talking a totally different language than me at this point :) But I did a search for "computer" and this is the thread I found.

I am about ready to throw my laptop out the window :) I have a SONY VAIO. I am wanting another desktop. I want something that is good for graphics and also something that I can use for doing school work and all that. Plus I will be putting all of my photography stuff on it also.

Any help? I don't know jack about computers :(
if you really want a desktop than a decent dell or the like should do the trick. your going to want something with a core 2 duo processor, about 2GHz. at least a 1gigabyte of ram, 2 perferably. since you are doign photo stuff, all the hard drive space you can afford would be great, with 300 gig being about the lowest i would go if i were you. video card wise, just about any card should do, i just would stay away from "onboard" graphics. then add a nice dell ultrasharp monitor of your choosing (i love my 20.1 inch widescreen), and you should be set.

since you appear to be at college, and i am too, heres what i have. i have one of dell's 12inch notebooks, with good parts in it, and then in my dorm i hook it up to an external monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse ect, and that way i have a laptop i can eaily take home or too class or where ever, but can deal with photoshop and other "intensive" and essetial programs.. *cough* video games *cough*. and that setup works great for me. but if you dont care about haveing a laptop anymore, or your VAIO still works well enough for notes and the like, than a desktop is a cheaper solution.

if you want any other specific help just ask.

[KristinLeigh]

What about this one that I customized on Dell.com?
OptiPlex 740 Mini-Tower - AMD ATHLON™ 64 3500+ (2.20GHz, 512KB), Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English


OptiPlex 740 Minitower AMD ATHLON™ 64 3500+ (2.20GHz, 512KB) Operating System(s) Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English File System NTFS File System for all Operating Systems Memory 512MB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM,667MHz, (1DIMM) Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard, No Hot Keys, English, Black Monitor Dell 19 inch E197FP Flat Panel, Analog Video Card Integrated NIVIDA Quadro NVS 210S Graphics Hard Drive 160GB SATA, 7200 RPM Hard Drive with Data Burst Cache™ Floppy Drive and Media Card Reader Options No Floppy Drive Mouse Dell USB 2-Button Entry Mouse with Scroll, Black Lead Free Motherboard RoHS Compliant Lead Free Chassis and Motherboard Removable Media Storage Devices 16X DVD+/-RW SATA, Roxio Creator Dell Edition Speakers No Internal Speaker Resource CD No Resource CD Dell Energy Smart Dell Energy Smart Enable Warranty & Service 3 Year On-site Economy Plan On-Site System Setup No Onsite System Setup Miscellaneous 740 Purchase Intent Purchase is not intended for resale. Express Upgrade to Windows Vista No Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Selected Labels Vista Capable Sticker

Sub-total http://i.dell.com/images/global/general/spacer.gif $824.00 http://i.dell.com/images/global/general/spacer.gif

[Billginthekeys]

okay, heres what i speced out, at the Dell Small Business store (i like the deals better):
PROCESSOR AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core 4200+
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Professional
MEMORY 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD+/-RW Drive
MONITOR 19 inch Ultrasharp™ 1907FP Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD 128MB ATI Radeon X1300
FLOPPY OR MEDIA READER 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
PRE-INSTALLED SECURITY Norton Internet Security™ 2006 Edition 15-months

and then theres all the other bs, you can determine what of that you want, warentee, software and the like.

anyway mine came out to: 1,082.

dont know what your budget is, but thats a pretty nice system.

[Raphael Emond]

To close the subjet on computer gaming, which is irrelevent to this topic, I only
want to say that I find it a shame that own MS game FSX is not coded for dual core.
Even when Xbox 360 games are. It seems that PC gaming is really laging behind.
It's been years that dual core are availaible. Check Quake 3...dual core ready..

[KristinLeigh]

I hate shopping. It's not my thing. So I think i'm gonna say screw it and get this one
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_e521?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

:)

[Billginthekeys]

To close the subjet on computer gaming, which is irrelevent to this topic, I only
want to say that I find it a shame that own MS game FSX is not coded for dual core.
Even when Xbox 360 games are. It seems that PC gaming is really laging behind.
It's been years that dual core are availaible. Check Quake 3...dual core ready..
actually you mean Quake IV, which is sick i would agree.

As i said, FSX was designed for Vista, mabye its just microsoft marketing, but when Vista comes out there will be a Vista specific patch that will allow the game to take advantage of dual core.

[tim]

What about this one that I customized on Dell.com?
OptiPlex 740 Mini-Tower - AMD ATHLON™ 64 3500+ (2.20GHz, 512KB), Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English

No - get dual core, an Athlon X2 or an Intel core 2 duo. I'd go intel right now.

[rcg]

What about this one that I customized on Dell.com?
OptiPlex 740 Mini-Tower - AMD ATHLON™ 64 3500+ (2.20GHz, 512KB), Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English


OptiPlex 740 Minitower AMD ATHLON™ 64 3500+ (2.20GHz, 512KB) Operating System(s) Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2, x32, with Media, English File System NTFS File System for all Operating Systems Memory 512MB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM,667MHz, (1DIMM) Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard, No Hot Keys, English, Black Monitor Dell 19 inch E197FP Flat Panel, Analog Video Card Integrated NIVIDA Quadro NVS 210S Graphics Hard Drive 160GB SATA, 7200 RPM Hard Drive with Data Burst Cache™ Floppy Drive and Media Card Reader Options No Floppy Drive Mouse Dell USB 2-Button Entry Mouse with Scroll, Black Lead Free Motherboard RoHS Compliant Lead Free Chassis and Motherboard Removable Media Storage Devices 16X DVD+/-RW SATA, Roxio Creator Dell Edition Speakers No Internal Speaker Resource CD No Resource CD Dell Energy Smart Dell Energy Smart Enable Warranty & Service 3 Year On-site Economy Plan On-Site System Setup No Onsite System Setup Miscellaneous 740 Purchase Intent Purchase is not intended for resale. Express Upgrade to Windows Vista No Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Selected Labels Vista Capable Sticker

Sub-total http://i.dell.com/images/global/general/spacer.gif $824.00 http://i.dell.com/images/global/general/spacer.gif


Kristin,

That machine won't be buffed enough for all of the photo work you are going to do...

First of all look at the Dell Small business side... configure one on the website and then Call them ofr a better deal. Don't let on that you have configured on the site just call up the SM Biz side and ask a rep to help you configure. This will give you the best deal. If you get a male rep on the line use your mojo (girlish charms = better deal).

The minimum specs for this machine should be:

Dell Dimension 9200

Duo Core 2.4Ghz (or at least pentium 3.0 ghz)
2GB RAM (very important for photoshop)
160GB Serial ATA Drive
No Floppy ('cause really... who cares)
CD/DVD-RW for backups
Windows XP-Pro
5 million :-) and one Built-in card reader (must be usb 2.0)
firewire port (optional)
19" LCD

I did a quick build on this at the web and it was about $1200. The memory will be very important and you want that right out of the gate.

[tadrscin]

FWIW, here's what I got from Dell about a month ago for $649
E521
AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core 3800+
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs (I've since added another gig of RAM for $100)
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
17 inch E177FP Analog Flat Panel
256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache

Now it's not the fastest computer you can get, but it does allow me to run batch processes in both CS2 and Bridge at the same time fairly quickly. The down side is that it's now $969, but you do get a 320G HD and 2G RAM.

[Lord_Malone]

Even then, the newer mother boards will allow for more ram, so a fairly easy(fairly inexpensive) upgrade can be made later to an already strong processor.

That's my take on it! :)

And on Quad Core.
The biggest problem with Quad core, even when it comes out, is applications that actually take advantage of its power. Its kinda like PS3,in the sense of it not even being fully utilized now. This is what I'm hearing from my even nerdier tech friends. :)

I wish I was a nerd. :(

[KristinLeigh]

shhhhhhhhhhhh me too ;)

[rcg]

I wish I was a nerd. :(

Yeah but your a photo nerd!!! :cool:

Shhhhhhhhh... Kristin is becoming a photo geek. Don' tell anyone.

[Lord_Malone]

I'm currently customizing a Dell XPS 210:

Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6600 (4MB 2.4GHz)
4GB Dual Channel SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
8x DVD+/-RW Drive
20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3000
Windows Vista™ Ultimate Operating System

$2128 - Any thoughts before I pull the trigger? I'm dumb when it comes to buying computers. Either it's too much or too little.

[grego]

I wish I was a nerd. :(

It's not too bad. I'm building my computer right now. The parts are becoming furniture in my bedroom. :lol:

I'm very happy that all i'm upgrading is the tower, and nothing else. Already got a great deal on the Dell 2005 fpw

I just got the case today.

I'm currently customizing a Dell XPS 210:

Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6600 (4MB 2.4GHz)
4GB Dual Channel SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
8x DVD+/-RW Drive
20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3000
Windows Vista™ Ultimate Operating System

$2128 - Any thoughts before I pull the trigger? I'm dumb when it comes to buying computers. Either it's too much or too little.

That's fairly pricey. Ram is the thing that kicks it up. It's possibly you can buy and add to it later. Usually you can find better deals. 2 gbs of fast ram is about 200-220. Vista, i'd stay away from that for around a year.I'd wait till Vista comes out with their service pack that updates a lot of the computability issues. You can find better DVD-RW's online for fairly cheap(like 30 dollar range). If you can cut a cost there, that would be good. Probably on the ram too. RAM is costing you at least 400? HD space, do you have any external or other previous hard drives?

How much is the video card? Vista is actually pretty heavily dependent upon the memory in that card.

Prices aren't all accurate, as i got some stuff with deals like the Seagate HD for 150(after tax and shipping)

This is what I am doing:
Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012)
e6300 core 2 duo (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115005)
74 gb raptor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136033)
500gb sata hd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148136)
256mb Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2412163&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEBLET03SHIP)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068)
500 watt power supply (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2240331&CatId=1079)
2gb RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144046)

My budget target was about 1k. I am around where i projected to be.

Going to run XP for at least another year, year and half.

[Lord_Malone]

It's not too bad. I'm building my computer right now. The parts are becoming furniture in my bedroom. :lol:

I'm very happy that all i'm upgrading is the tower, and nothing else. Already got a great deal on the Dell 2005 fpw

I just got the case today.



That's fairly pricey. Ram is the thing that kicks it up. It's possibly you can buy and add to it later. Usually you can find better deals. 2 gbs of fast ram is about 200-220. Vista, i'd stay away from that for around a year.I'd wait till Vista comes out with their service pack that updates a lot of the computability issues. You can find better DVD-RW's online for fairly cheap(like 30 dollar range). If you can cut a cost there, that would be good. Probably on the ram too. RAM is costing you at least 400? HD space, do you have any external or other previous hard drives?

How much is the video card? Vista is actually pretty heavily dependent upon the memory in that card.

Prices aren't all accurate, as i got some stuff with deals like the Seagate HD for 150(after tax and shipping)

This is what I am doing:
Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012)
e6300 core 2 duo (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115005)
74 gb raptor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136033)
500gb sata hd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148136)
256mb Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2412163&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEBLET03SHIP)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068)
500 watt power supply (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2240331&CatId=1079)
2gb RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144046)

My budget target was about 1k. I am around where i projected to be.

Going to run XP for at least another year, year and half.


Hey, Greg. Just when I need you the most. I forgot to add that the price included a wireless keyboard and mouse and a sexy pair of speakers and subwoofer. I was thinking I should stay away from version 1.0 of Vista also, but still tempted to try it. You may be right though. Probably best to sit and wait for compatibility issues to be resolved in later versions. I currently have a 250gb external hard drive and a WD My Book 320gb external hard drive I use to back up my data. I don't even use my HP desktop PC anymore. I primarily do everything on my laptop. LOL But I'm definitely pushing this little sucker to the limits when I run apps like CS2 or Lightroom Beta. It starts to really bog down when I open up programs like Noise Ninja (stand alone) simutaneoulsy. I guess I could cut the RAM down to 2gb. I figured getting 4gb now will suffice for a long time. And I guess I could ditch the DVD-RW drive too. I'll cut out a few things and see what I come up with. Don't go nowhere... BRB

btw, the video card is an Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3000

[Lord_Malone]

Made some cuts to my original plan and got the price down to just under $1650. I could probably bring it down more if I ditch the wireless keyboard and mouse, speakers and monitor. But that 20" monitor seems pretty nice. Thoughts?

[th3r0m]

What kind of cuts?

I would keep the monitor. Although you might be able to get a "refurbished" 20 inch from the dell outlet for cheaper. Seems like the chances of getting one with an S-IPS screen (best) vs. S-PVA screen (um, apparently not the best) are hit and miss, but everyone I know that has one of the ultrasharps loves it. Personally, I would get an graphics card as well, but mostly because I don't really trust onboard video.

[Raphael Emond]

If you do photo, pick TWO monitors, and a calibration unit to match the color on each monitor... Once you taste dual screens, you can never go back!!

[rfreschner]

Once you taste dual screens, you can never go back!!

Or, one big honking one!

[corinto]

A store near me is offering the e6400 core 2 duo a mere $10 over the e6300. Is the former any better?

[corinto]

Or, one big honking one!

Maybe a big one for the photo and a very small low-res for the palettes. :D

[rfreschner]

Maybe a big one for the photo and a very small low-res for the palettes. :D

That would work too!! ;)

[Billginthekeys]

Made some cuts to my original plan and got the price down to just under $1650. I could probably bring it down more if I ditch the wireless keyboard and mouse, speakers and monitor. But that 20" monitor seems pretty nice. Thoughts?
well i can vouch that the monitor is awesome, im thinking of picking up a second myself. I really would push for at least getting a REAL video card (doenst have to be the high end), not that BS intel integrated crap that steals from your ram and doesnt really do much good.

Heres my view of 4 gigs of ram. i originally thought about getting 4 gigs in my next desktop (which will be homebuilt), but the fact is right now 2 gigs does just fine, and is expensive enough. a few years down the road when 4 gigs is a viable performance boost it will be much more affordable.

[Billginthekeys]

This is what I am doing:
Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012)
e6300 core 2 duo (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115005)
74 gb raptor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136033)
500gb sata hd (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148136)
256mb Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2412163&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEBLET03SHIP)
Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119068)
500 watt power supply (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2240331&CatId=1079)
2gb RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144046)


do you already have all the parts? The reason i ask is that i dont personally believe in this getting one uber fast drive to run progs off of, and a large storage drive combo. ive yet to see any testing that has proven that using a 15k drive in this combo is significatly faster than just RAIDing two larger drives.

BTW good job going with newegg, their the best. Im looking at building my next PC fairly soon aswell, kind of a gaming/editing/vista testing machine. My target is about $1800 though.

case- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811133132
mobo- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131142
cpu-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115004
Ram- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
PSU-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817153031
GPU-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130066
2 HDDs- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822148140
drives- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827101131
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827131038
audio- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16829102005

then OEM Vista Ultimate and some fancy case fan.
$1,739

[Dan-o]

I just bought a new case and 3rd HD. This case is very nice.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129021

Also I wouldn't be so leary about Vista on a new computer. As an upgrade I would wait.

[grego]

Made some cuts to my original plan and got the price down to just under $1650. I could probably bring it down more if I ditch the wireless keyboard and mouse, speakers and monitor. But that 20" monitor seems pretty nice. Thoughts?

Yes, i'd avoid the packaged extra stuff. You can get better deals with Dell on those products, outside of the packaged deal, sometimes.

Or just price shopping around.

BTW, before you do anything, sign up to Fatwallet.
http://www.fatwallet.com/store.php?store=208

Then click through there. What will happen is if you make a purchase through clicking this fatwallet, you'll get 3% back, on Dell Home.

I've made near 25 dollars in my limited purchases through using Fatwallet.

Hey, Greg. Just when I need you the most. I forgot to add that the price included a wireless keyboard and mouse and a sexy pair of speakers and subwoofer. I was thinking I should stay away from version 1.0 of Vista also, but still tempted to try it. You may be right though. Probably best to sit and wait for compatibility issues to be resolved in later versions. I currently have a 250gb external hard drive and a WD My Book 320gb external hard drive I use to back up my data. I don't even use my HP desktop PC anymore. I primarily do everything on my laptop. LOL But I'm definitely pushing this little sucker to the limits when I run apps like CS2 or Lightroom Beta. It starts to really bog down when I open up programs like Noise Ninja (stand alone) simutaneoulsy. I guess I could cut the RAM down to 2gb. I figured getting 4gb now will suffice for a long time. And I guess I could ditch the DVD-RW drive too. I'll cut out a few things and see what I come up with. Don't go nowhere... BRB

btw, the video card is an Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3000

I'm not sure your budget. Nor do i know how much more money you are looking to put into Canon stuff(glass, bodies, etc).

But you only need about 2gb's for the type of stuff which you want to do(what i want to do). I mean it's cool if you can spend more, but adding ram is not hard. You can always add more later. That would save some money.

I'm still weary on the card, because that info, doesn't sound too good. On the bright side, you could always replace the crappy card. The card will come more into play if you go Vista though. If you stay with XP for now, it wouldn't be as much of a deal, unless you are a gamer.

do you already have all the parts? The reason i ask is that i dont personally believe in this getting one uber fast drive to run progs off of, and a large storage drive combo. ive yet to see any testing that has proven that using a 15k drive in this combo is significatly faster than just RAIDing two larger drives.

BTW good job going with newegg, their the best. Im looking at building my next PC fairly soon aswell, kind of a gaming/editing/vista testing machine. My target is about $1800 though.

case- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16811133132
mobo- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131142
cpu-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16819115004
Ram- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820145034
PSU-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817153031
GPU-http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814130066
2 HDDs- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16822148140
drives- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827101131
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16827131038
audio- http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16829102005

then OEM Vista Ultimate and some fancy case fan.
$1,739

The Rap i got for 150(final price), which is a great deal on that.

Well, i talked over RAID with my friend vs. the HD. He's a big computer guy, and actually is doing what you will do with RAID. I know what you could get vs. what else is possible. I wanted minimize the heat, and running two drives like that would be a little more. And I like having space inside the case. I rather get a midtower, and still have a lot of space. It's also cheaper to add more inside than buy external. Even buying internal and getting external cases is more money. If that deal did not come up, i'd probably consider RAID.

I'm not big on gaming, because then yeah, i'd need to pour in near 1k more if i wanted to be capable of doing that hard core gaming. I'd still avoid Vista, and the OEM version i hear omits things. You should be able to get a student discount at your University, anyway.

I think if i went more towards your budget, i'd stick in 4gigs of ram. Probably a little higher vid card. But that's probably it. Wouldn't change too much more. Probably go with a little bit higher processor.

[Billginthekeys]

The Rap i got for 150(final price), which is a great deal on that.

Well, i talked over RAID with my friend vs. the HD. He's a big computer guy, and actually is doing what you will do with RAID. I know what you could get vs. what else is possible. I wanted minimize the heat, and running two drives like that would be a little more. And I like having space inside the case. I rather get a midtower, and still have a lot of space. It's also cheaper to add more inside than buy external. Even buying internal and getting external cases is more money. If that deal did not come up, i'd probably consider RAID.

I'm not big on gaming, because then yeah, i'd need to pour in near 1k more if i wanted to be capable of doing that hard core gaming. I'd still avoid Vista, and the OEM version i hear omits things. You should be able to get a student discount at your University, anyway.

I think if i went more towards your budget, i'd stick in 4gigs of ram. Probably a little higher vid card. But that's probably it. Wouldn't change too much more. Probably go with a little bit higher processor.

that is a great price for the raptor. Im building this machine specifically for vista (and DX10 in partcular) so im definitly going to dabble with it, ill still have my laptop with xp though haha.
Graphics wise i really want the 8800GTX... i just have to convince myself to cough up the cash. also, with the CPU, im going with that one for now, and waiting for quad core to come down in price :D

[grego]

that is a great price for the raptor. Im building this machine specifically for vista (and DX10 in partcular) so im definitly going to dabble with it, ill still have my laptop with xp though haha.
Graphics wise i really want the 8800GTX... i just have to convince myself to cough up the cash. also, with the CPU, im going with that one for now, and waiting for quad core to come down in price :D

Gosh, you defintely want to be a gamer. Yeah, Vista will be nice for the games.

Just think in terms of L lens. You are close to like a 24-70 with the extra case you spend on your computer compared to mine. :p
But we all have to play our games, so I understand.

Quad Core? you really don't need that, except if you are a movie/video person. I guess some of those video games are crazy enough to need it. I play starcraft and lord of the rings: battle for middle earth RTS games, so i'd be doing overkill. :lol:

[Billginthekeys]

Gosh, you defintely want to be a gamer. Yeah, Vista will be nice for the games.

Just think in terms of L lens. You are close to like a 24-70 with the extra case you spend on your computer compared to mine. :p
But we all have to play our games, so I understand.

Quad Core? you really don't need that, except if you are a movie/video person. I guess some of those video games are crazy enough to need it. I play starcraft and lord of the rings: battle for middle earth RTS games, so i'd be doing overkill. :lol:
yea problem is like i said lens wise other than some guilty pleasure lenses (like the 35, 85, and 135 L primes) and way to expensive lenses (500 F4L IS) im pretty set right now. Quad core will be fun haha, and actually i do like doing video editing, even though i havnt had a lot of time to do it in the last year or so. Video game wise im not addicted anymore, but i still like to play within realism, and most of all, like to play on all high. that said im really loving my xbxo 360 and gears of war hooked up to my montior in full 1080p HD.

[grego]

yea problem is like i said lens wise other than some guilty pleasure lenses (like the 35, 85, and 135 L primes) and way to expensive lenses (500 F4L IS) im pretty set right now. Quad core will be fun haha, and actually i do like doing video editing, even though i havnt had a lot of time to do it in the last year or so. Video game wise im not addicted anymore, but i still like to play within realism, and most of all, like to play on all high. that said im really loving my xbxo 360 and gears of war hooked up to my montior in full 1080p HD.

I was thinking if you were going more hard core into PJ world, then you'd want to upgrade your other body to another 1 series, fill in the traditional lens, and maybe another tele. But I guess those oens too.

The 400 is more valuable than the 500 for the sports end though.

You are probably better off with the gaming systems outside of computers(as they upgrade so much, forcing you to spend more)

[Billginthekeys]

I was thinking if you were going more hard core into PJ world, then you'd want to upgrade your other body to another 1 series, fill in the traditional lens, and maybe another tele. But I guess those oens too.

The 400 is more valuable than the 500 for the sports end though.

You are probably better off with the gaming systems outside of computers(as they upgrade so much, forcing you to spend more)
im more about nature really. if i didnt get a press pass to go to football games i would probably trade in my 300 for a 500 right now (plus some cash on my end obviously). :lol:

ohh and on the body, im waiting for the replacement to come out, then ill be all over it like white on rice on a paper plate in a snowstorm.

[Lord_Malone]

I need some more super techno geek advice. Can I just take apart my old HP and just upgrade that piece of junk? New processor, more RAM, better video card? I want this to be a dedicated image processing machine. I don't need to play games, watch movies, download music, look at porn or anything else. Computers is not exactly my strong point. Help me build my machine!

[Dan-o]

I wouldn't mess with the processor but the others can be upgraded

[Billginthekeys]

I need some more super techno geek advice. Can I just take apart my old HP and just upgrade that piece of junk? New processor, more RAM, better video card? I want this to be a dedicated image processing machine. I don't need to play games, watch movies, download music, look at porn or anything else. Computers is not exactly my strong point. Help me build my machine!
as someone who tried to upgrade their old machine...... NOOO!!!!!

stay away from it. old parts are slower, and more expensive. in the end you start putting in new parts and for just a bit more you could have a brand new PC with current gen parts and warentee. especially old HP's and Dell's, since they use real low spec parts.

[corinto]

...... NOOO!!!!!

Aside from the fact that PS is not too demanding on video card power.

[Dan-o]

I'm slowly building mine from an HP PentiumD 3ghz. Bought new case, two hard drives, 2 gigs of ram, and 550W power supply. I will eventualy replace the mob and DVD drives.

[tim]

It can be cheaper to buy a new dell than to upgrade an old machine, and it'll probably be faster too. I did the processor upgrade, that's it until I get a whole new machine in a year or two.

[grego]

I need some more super techno geek advice. Can I just take apart my old HP and just upgrade that piece of junk? New processor, more RAM, better video card? I want this to be a dedicated image processing machine. I don't need to play games, watch movies, download music, look at porn or anything else. Computers is not exactly my strong point. Help me build my machine!

Ed, the biggest problem is mother board changes. Your computer is old and the motherboard is outdated, so its harder to find parts for your board.

You picked a good machine. However, you can pull off 2gigs from it, to cut some costs. Look for deals for the keyboard, mouse(or a combo of both). Speakers, as well.

Basically your machine would stand well with a
-core 2 duo processor
-2 gb's ram
-Give or take $80-125 video card(if you want Vista now or eventually)

To me, yes the monitor is a piece of the computer, if you are working with imaging, so that's just as important. But as mentioned earlier, the other stuff is not as vital, right away.

Oh, and sign up to Fatwallet and take advantage of getting 3% back. That probably will cover the shipping costs in the money you get back.

Aside from the fact that PS is not too demanding on video card power.

No, Photoshop is not too heavy on that end. However, Vista will demand more, and that's what LM is hinting at, whether its not or later.

[Dan-o]

It can be cheaper to buy a new dell than to upgrade an old machine, and it'll probably be faster too. I did the processor upgrade, that's it until I get a whole new machine in a year or two.

I went to the Dell website to build one a few weeks ago and the starting price is very good. Then you start adding, extra HD, more Ram, upgrade this and that= ahhhh $2000+. :lol: Sure you could get the bare bones system and still be an upgrade but it just hard to not click those options.

[Jamdiver]

I'm currently customizing a Dell XPS 210:

Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6600 (4MB 2.4GHz)
4GB Dual Channel SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
8x DVD+/-RW Drive
20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3000
Windows Vista™ Ultimate Operating System

$2128 - Any thoughts before I pull the trigger? I'm dumb when it comes to buying computers. Either it's too much or too little.

Drooool, wonderful setup malone..
Only thing I might hold off on for now is Windows Vista.
When I purchased my laptop recently from Dell, it came with a free upgrade to Vista?

Perhaps that would be a better option, to use XP for now until Vista has its bugs sorted out :).

[rfreschner]

Perhaps that would be a better option, to use XP for now until Vista has its bugs sorted out :).

I agree... wait for SP1!

[grego]

I went to the Dell website to build one a few weeks ago and the starting price is very good. Then you start adding, extra HD, more Ram, upgrade this and that= ahhhh $2000+. :lol: Sure you could get the bare bones system and still be an upgrade but it just hard to not click those options.

Forget the extra HD's. They aren't too difficult to put in. RAM too(even easier).

[tim]

Be careful installing RAM, it's sensitive. Take anti-static precautions. HDD not so much, quite robust unless you drop them.

[grego]

Be careful installing RAM, it's sensitive. Take anti-static precautions. HDD not so much, quite robust unless you drop them.

Well, you should be careful about static anytime you open up your computer. As long as you use the guide, you'll know which RAM is compatible. HD's sometimes can be a pain to add as a second. Technology gets weird sometimes!

[Lord_Malone]

You guys have all been great. Good sound advice here. I'll marinate over my options this weekend. Bottom line, I really do need new hardware, so I'll fully explore all options before I make a final decision. Greg, thanks for saving me from pulling the trigger. I wasn't particularly thrilled about having to pay that much for a new rig.

[Lord_Malone]

Just an update fellas. Here's the set-up as it currently stands:

Dell XPS 410:
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6600
Windows Vista™ Home Premium (it's the standard option)
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (standard)
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (standard)
256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS Video Card

$1279

I decided to not get the monitor and will probably shop around for a couple of good CRTs. I figure the processor is fast enough as is, but will be killer if/when overclocked. I took Greg's advice on the SDRAM and chose the most expensive video card option. I would heed the advice and avoid the first generation of Vista, but I want to be one of those unlucky bastards to guinnea pig it for the rest of the world. :shock: I'll just update it when the first service pack is available. Any thoughts before I pull the trigger?

[grego]

Hey, that video card looks like mine!! :lol

Looking good Ed. Good timing!!

You don't need to overclock to get high performance.

[Lord_Malone]

Hey, that video card looks like mine!! :lol

Looking good Ed. Good timing!!

You don't need to overclock to get high performance.

Really? You don't think so? I keep reading all this hype about overclocking, and all these geek computer hardcore fanboys seem to go nuts over it. For the record, I too would like to become a geek. So I done good?

[grego]

Really? You don't think so? I keep reading all this hype about overclocking, and all these geek computer hardcore fanboys seem to go nuts over it. For the record, I too would like to become a geek. So I done good?

Yeah, you did good. You can overclock, as some motherboards, like the one I got are good for overclocking, like with my processor, for instance.

What happens though, is it generates more heat, meaning you need to make sure you have enough fans and ventilation to keep it cooler. Also, it puts more strain on the hardware in there, so if you don't have plans to upgrade as quickly, i wouldn't advise it.

I'm still thinking about overclocking, but i'm leaning more on the side of not as I am trying not to buy so soon, again! :)

For your ventures with photo processing, you should be just fine. you can always add compatible RAM a few months down the road, if you want more memory to handle your multiple functions.

[Lord_Malone]

I'm thinking about picking up a couple of NEC CRTs. They seem to be really good monitors for the price. I looked at the Eizo and Samsung monitors, but those seem way out of my range right now.

EDIT: I take that back. The Samsung's weren't the one's that were too expensive. It was some other high end brand. Hold on I'll check...

[tim]

I like my Samsung LCD a lot.

[corinto]

I like my Samsung LCD a lot.

What's the model name of your LCD? Samsung seems to have several.

[Lord_Malone]

I like my Samsung LCD a lot.

What Samsung LCD did you get?

[Dan-o]

Unless you are gaming don't overclock.

[tim]

What Samsung LCD did you get?

Syncmaster 910T - it's a couple of years old now.

[Lord_Malone]

Unless you are gaming don't overclock.

Okay! You would know better than me. I haven't acheived the status of 'Nerd' yet. :(

Syncmaster 910T - it's a couple of years old now.

Cool. I'm thinking about scrapping the CRT idea and picking up the Samsung SyncMaster 940BW (http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Flat-Panel-Reviews/Samsung-SyncMaster-940BW/). Can't afford those high speed Lacie and Eizo monitors right now. :lol:

[Tsmith]

Unless you are gaming don't overclock.

I've been running my P4 3.0 @ 3.5Ghz for 3 years now without an issue, gaming and everything. The main thing is finding the right combination of settings for stability. However I generally don't overclock the video card but have on occasion.

As for that I'm really wanting to put together a new rig with either the Intel E6600 or E6700 processor.

[corinto]

I'm thinking about ... picking up the Samsung SyncMaster 940BW (http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Flat-Panel-Reviews/Samsung-SyncMaster-940BW/).

If you do, please post your comments regarding IQ in respect to photography. I haven't found such an approach.

I had discarded using an LCD until I saw Tim's post. There are not too many choices in my country but the 940BW is available. The problem is that if I don't like it, there will not be anything I can switch it for.

[Lord_Malone]

If you do, please post your comments regarding IQ in respect to photography. I haven't found such an approach.

I had discarded using an LCD until I saw Tim's post. There are not too many choices in my country but the 940BW is available. The problem is that if I don't like it, there will not be anything I can switch it for.

I'll keep you posted on my thoughts when I pick it up.

[Lord_Malone]

If you do, please post your comments regarding IQ in respect to photography. I haven't found such an approach.

I had discarded using an LCD until I saw Tim's post. There are not too many choices in my country but the 940BW is available. The problem is that if I don't like it, there will not be anything I can switch it for.

Looks like I won't be giving you that review after all. I decided to get a couple of Viewsonic 19" Flatscreen CRTs instead...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=437978&is=REG
http://www.techonweb.com/products/productdetail.aspx?id=C49831&src=NT (lowest price)

[grego]

I've been running my P4 3.0 @ 3.5Ghz for 3 years now without an issue, gaming and everything.

It still puts more stress on the system's hardware. It's not that it doesn't work and doesn't work successfully at times. If it didn't, then it would never be done anymore.

[Lord_Malone]

And I found a pair of old Bose Mediamate speakers I'll be adding to the list too. I've owned these before and they were awesome computer speakers. Last set got destroyed in Iraq.

[corinto]

Looks like I won't be giving you that review after all. I decided to get a couple of Viewsonic 19" Flatscreen CRTs instead...


That's what I did too (with a Samsung) when I needed to replace my old CRT. I am sure that LCDs' features will keep increasing while prices go down.