White Balance: Is white always right?

[FlyingPete]

I was shooting some shots indoors under tungsten lighting the other night, as usual, my G3 was screwing up the White Balance, and thought it was daylight. I manually set the camera to 'Tungsten', this fixed up the overall yellow affect I had, but the images looked really cold and dull. In the end I used the Fluorescent setting, which was a good middle ground.

I later found some white paper and set the colour off that, and it was fairly close to the Tungsten setting, but just didn't look right.

I suppose in the end it comes down to personal preference, but it has tempted me to carry some different coloured cards around, one pure white when I want the correct colour, two that have a slight tint, to create a warm or cool lighting effect.

Has anyone tried this?

[cloudless]

I don't expect to get the "perfect" white balance indoor, just get as close as you can then fix it with Photoshop. If you are really concerned about it I think you should use RAW.

[PFlor]

I think you're better off shooting RAW if you want to achieve different effects. But for accurate white balance you may want to look into getting a good quality gray card (Kodak) and use it to set your Custom WB. Even better but pricier is to get an Expo/Disc.

[submannz]

All digi cams stuggle with white balance which is why they add it, and almost all cameras auto settings are not always the best, you can get better results by setting it manually.

[Tom W]

I have to agree - manual is pretty doggone good. I have started shooting RAW just for that purpose, and it works quite well.

[Riccardo]

I noted that the manual WB setted manually is not allways perfect, but if you start your photo session with a photo of a 18% grey Kodak paper ( also in AutoWB), than tou can correct all the photos in photoshop (also in batch), with extreme accuracy.
You will open the grey foto first, then open the photo to correct, open level and pick the medium eyedropper (the gray one) and pick it on the gray photo: magically the photo is corrected, and setting can be saved and reused in batch mode.
Ciao, ciao
Riccardo

[bobdf]

I've tried the auto white balance with about all the possibilities and found that it does a decent job with all but tungsten and "daylight" type flourescent. Photoshop correction (I mostly use Levels) can nicely correct all but the tungsten. The G3 tungsten setting corrects too much, losing the warmer tones I like in indoor shots, but it sure is better than the AWB.

I also tried making an 18% gray using PhotoPaint (or CorelDraw) and saved it as a psd file. I first set the highlights and shadows in Photoshop Levels, then open my 18% gray and eyedropper it for the midtones and make any further adjustments from there. I haven't compared the process with usinga photo of a Kodak 18% card but my method seems to work for those who have the Corel suite.

[mahanee]

always using custome whote balance
set it using a white thing... paper, clothe, tissue.. anything as long it`s white... u`ll get a true white n true color of the results

[bobdf]

White works ok for the camera. I have never owned a Kodak 18% gray even though in my film days I tried to practice the Zone System (even to the point of switching 36mm rolls tagged for different processing - and did that get old pretty quick). My note on the 18% gray image,made from Corel stuff, was strictly for image editing. You don't need it with Levels since you will end up adjusting the midtones after setting the highlights and shadows, but sometimes it's nice to double check your work.

[Riccardo]

I think that in digital photo a gray frame is a question of one minute, cost nothing, and is a big help in post production. In levels using midtones on grey frame set the photo on the real colors, then you can correct if you want some different, but you start with the real color!
Ciao
Riccardo

[FlyingPete]

I have a grey card I sometime use to get the white balance dead on, however what about a warm and cool card, if I wanted warm or cool lighting effects.

I really like to avoid messing with the colours and exposure in Photoshop (loss of information/clipping), unless I am using RAW, which is not always practical.

[Godwin]

Newbie here, sorry but I have a few questions about the gray card.

I have a G3 w/ a 420EX.
Do I need a gray card for better white balance?
Only custom white balance is not enough?
How to use the gray card?
Any good links for the theory behind?
How many choices are there for 18% gray card? Or just go for the Kodak's?
How much does it cost?

Sorry for so many question but I really need advices from you.
Any reply will be much appreciated. Thank you!

[FlyingPete]

You won't need a grey card for flash photography, as the light colour (temperature) is constant. If you are particularly concerned, set the white balance to flash.

For non flash photography, as far as setting white balance any true white surface will do, just set the camera to custom white balance and point it at the white sheet in the lighting you will be shooting in, and press the * button.

Grey cards are really good for getting correct metering for the lighting conditions. Most camera exposure systems assumes an average lighting of a photo to be the same as 18% grey, so if you take a photo of a white piece of paper it will assume it is 18% grey and under expose it, situations where this could happen are where there is a lot of white, such as snowy conditions, the opposite is true with dark environments, the camera will tend to overexpose. If you meter off a grey card in these conditions, your lighting should be bang on.

[Godwin]

Thank you for the reply but I still have a few questions...

You won't need a grey card for flash photography, as the light colour (temperature) is constant. If you are particularly concerned, set the white balance to flash.
Even if I am shooting in a mixed light source environment with the flash?

Grey cards are really good for getting correct metering for the lighting conditions. Most camera exposure systems assumes an average lighting of a photo to be the same as 18% grey, so if you take a photo of a white piece of paper it will assume it is 18% grey and under expose it, situations where this could happen are where there is a lot of white, such as snowy conditions, the opposite is true with dark environments, the camera will tend to overexpose. If you meter off a grey card in these conditions, your lighting should be bang on.
That means I have to use AE lock meter on the 18% gray card and then shoot under the same light source and the exposure will be bang on?

[FlyingPete]

Thank you for the reply but I still have a few questions...

You won't need a grey card for flash photography, as the light colour (temperature) is constant. If you are particularly concerned, set the white balance to flash.
Even if I am shooting in a mixed light source environment with the flash?

That can be an issue, but generally I find that the if you are shooting indoors, any other light that may be in the picture is usually outside. Daylight is very close to flashlight as far as colour goes. One interesting situation I have had is shooting without the flash indoors during the day where normal lighting is used (tungsten), any views of outside appear very blue, can be used to good effect, especially on a rainy day!

Grey cards are really good for getting correct metering for the lighting conditions. Most camera exposure systems assumes an average lighting of a photo to be the same as 18% grey, so if you take a photo of a white piece of paper it will assume it is 18% grey and under expose it, situations where this could happen are where there is a lot of white, such as snowy conditions, the opposite is true with dark environments, the camera will tend to overexpose. If you meter off a grey card in these conditions, your lighting should be bang on.
That means I have to use AE lock meter on the 18% gray card and then shoot under the same light source and the exposure will be bang on?

In theory, yes.

[PFlor]

Thank you for the reply but I still have a few questions...

You won't need a grey card for flash photography, as the light colour (temperature) is constant. If you are particularly concerned, set the white balance to flash.
Even if I am shooting in a mixed light source environment with the flash?
In a mixed lighting environment I think you will still benefit from a gray card for setting WB because the card, if placed in the same position as your subject, will be lit by a 'mix' of all the surrounding lights including the flash, which should give you a more accurate reading.


That means I have to use AE lock meter on the 18% gray card and then shoot under the same light source and the exposure will be bang on?
I find you can only use a gray card to a certain limit if calculating exposure on the G3. The only way I could get it to work properly was to:

- stand at your shooting distance and pre-frame your shot as if you're ready to take the picture,
- get an assistant to place the gray card beside subject,
- change to spot metering mode to meter off the card and use AE to lock exposure
- take the shot

Obviously this won't work if you're going to be shooting too far away from your subject.

[Godwin]

Thanks Flypete!

In a mixed lighting environment I think you will still benefit from a gray card for setting WB because the card, if placed in the same position as your subject, will be lit by a 'mix' of all the surrounding lights including the flash, which should give you a more accurate reading.
You mean aim on the gray card and set it in custom white balance?


I find you can only use a gray card to a certain limit if calculating exposure on the G3. The only way I could get it to work properly was to:

- stand at your shooting distance and pre-frame your shot as if you're ready to take the picture,
- get an assistant to place the gray card beside subject,
- change to spot metering mode to meter off the card and use AE to lock exposure
- take the shot

Obviously this won't work if you're going to be shooting too far away from your subject.
Obviously it won't work for most of the time since I won't have an assistant for that. :P

[PFlor]

You mean aim on the gray card and set it in custom white balance?
Yes, but make sure the gray card fills the entire frame.


Obviously it won't work for most of the time since I won't have an assistant for that. :P
I forgot to mention to remove the gray card beside subject before taking the shot. :)

[Riccardo]

But you can also photograph the gray card and use it in Photoshop work.

Ciao
Riccardo