Color Profiles and "Preserve Color Numbers" (i9100

[dphoto]

OK, here goes...

In photoshop, my working space color profile is set to my Iiyama monitor. When I load in an image with an embedded sRGB profile, I opt to use the embedded profile. I use proof setup with my i9100 profile to see how my image will look when I print it. I leave the "Preserve Color Numbers" box unchecked.

When I print... the print is much more "washed out" looking than on my monitor. If I go to proof setup and check the "Preserve Color Numbers" box, then my monitor looks "washed out", just like my print.

So I'm wondering what's going on... from everything I've read, checking the "Preserve Color Numbers" box essentially throws away the color management. Does this mean that my printer is not using color management properly? In the printer driver, I have "Use ICM" checked, so I thought this would cause the i9100 color profile to be used.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks a lot,
-Deva

[maderito]

OK, here goes...

In photoshop, my working space color profile is set to my Iiyama monitor. When I load in an image with an embedded sRGB profile, I opt to use the embedded profile. I use proof setup with my i9100 profile to see how my image will look when I print it. I leave the "Preserve Color Numbers" box unchecked.

When I print... the print is much more "washed out" looking than on my monitor. If I go to proof setup and check the "Preserve Color Numbers" box, then my monitor looks "washed out", just like my print.

So I'm wondering what's going on... from everything I've read, checking the "Preserve Color Numbers" box essentially throws away the color management. Does this mean that my printer is not using color management properly? In the printer driver, I have "Use ICM" checked, so I thought this would cause the i9100 color profile to be used.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks a lot,
-Deva
I'll try to answer this one. Hopefully, others will correct any mistakes I make.

1. Since you have sRGB images, use sRGB as your working color space in PS. If you use the monitor profiles as your working space in PS, you're disabling color management. If you're using the 10D, the image should be tagged as sRGB as it comes out the camera (for JPEG) or you should assign sRGB in your RAW processing software.

2. For proof setup, don't check preserve color numbers. The whole point of soft proofing is to adjust color numbers from source profile to printer profile. So you're right: preserving color numbers disables color management. I don't know why the option exists.

If you are soft proofing and don't have custum ICC profiles for your printer, use the Canon supplied "BJ Color Printer Profile." Some variation of that name should show up on the list of profiles while working in PS.

3. Don't check ICM (Windows image color mangement system) in the print driver. Send the image from PS to the print driver with source color space = sRGB and printer color space set to Profile = "Printer color management." Then just select the correct media (e.g. Photo Paper Pro) and select "auto" for color management. Again, don't check ICM.

There are other ways to do the color management, including assigning custom printer profiles and/or letting PS convert the image to the print space and turning off printer color management. You'll have to figure out what works for you. It sounds like you've already done some reading on the whole process. Turning off printer color management in the Canon print driver involves a couple of steps. Check back.

If you continue to have problems, you'll need to worry about monitor calibration and profiling so that what you see on your monitor matches what comes out of the printer. Most would say that you have to worry about monitor calibration first. At a minimum, use the Adobe Gamma utility to get a rough profile set for your monitor.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse. :)

[dphoto]

Hey Woody,

I thank you for your help. I don't think you're confusing... I think this process can be confusing because it doesn't always seem to work as it "should". :)

I'm glad I've got the whole "Preserve Color Numbers" thing correct. However, one of us is incorrect about using embedded profiles, and I'm not sure who. :( As it turns out, my monitor profile and the embedded sRGB profile must not be that different because it doesn't seem to matter while one I use. If you don't mind sticking with me, I'd love to ask you another question.

You mentioned:
Send the image from PS to the print driver with source color space = sRGB and printer color space set to Profile = "Printer color management."

How does I set the "printer color space" to "printer color management"? Is this in photoshop, or the print driver? I can't seem to find anything like that in either.

After playing around with things a little, I seem to get a better print by using Manual color adjustment and setting the Print Type to photo, the Brightness to Normal, and upping the Intensity to 4. The colors look a lot better. Maybe they will never look "the same" since the monitor is emitting light and the paper is reflecting light. This is fairly acceptable, although I'm having another problem which I'll post in a new thread. Dang printing! :)

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it! :)
-Deva

[maderito]

Hey Woody,
How does I set the "printer color space" to "printer color management"? Is this in photoshop, or the print driver? I can't seem to find anything like that in either.
I think the color management options for printing from PS are the same in PS 6/7/CS.

1. From the main PS file menu, select "print with preview"

2. At the bottom of the dialog, check "show more options"

3. Select "color management" from the drop down menu

4. Select Source Space: Document: sRGB (or whatever you are using)

5. Select Print Space: Profile: Printer color management

Hit "Print" and open "properties" to reach the print driver settings. From there, you select the proper media and "auto" for color management. Good luck. Tell me about the beautiful prints that you should see :).

[dphoto]

Hey Woody,

Wow, I've got to say thanks once again. For some reason, since I was using the driver's "print preview", I didn't even realize that I was missing Photoshop's "print preview". It's all starting to make sense now... :)

Well, I've got all the settings set how they should be, and things are looking pretty good. In fact, this is pretty nice looking. It's still a little lighter than on my monitor, but I can always increase the brightness on my monitor to match the print. :) Actually, I found that setting the "Intensity" higher in the printer driver makes for a little richer looking print. It looks like it lays more ink on the paper.

Anyhow, thanks again for all of your help. I'm well on my way to making great prints... I hope. :)
-Deva

[iwatkins]

Deva,

I do everything that Woody suggests but do also do as you suggest. I tend to run +15 on the Intensity for matte papers and maybe a little less, around +10 for Glossy paper. I don't touch the colour balance controls as I've never had any issues with colour accuracy.

Tends to work out very well.

Cheers

Ian

[dphoto]

Hey Ian,

Yeah, that intensity setting is like magic! Especially on the matte paper, I just couldn't get accurate color matching until I started using it. You have to be careful, of course, because too much will saturate the heck out of the print. I remember I tried using a value of 25 once. Yikes! I think it drained about half the ink from my printer. Talk about a "wet" print! :)

Good to hear similar experiences with the same printer. I think I am finally on the "right" track. :)

-Deva

[iwatkins]

Deva,

Yeah, been there, I think i tried +50 or something at first. I could swear the picture came out of the printer before the paper did the ink was so thick. :D

The i9100 is a cracking printer out of the box and also works very well if you use Canon PhotoRecord etc.

However, I did have a few problems getting a good print from Photoshop CS when I first starting using it. I admit it took me a good few hours and lots of test prints to get results I'm happy with.

It isn't difficult to get right...... if you know which buttons to press, and that is the problem. So much to twiddle with, you are never sure if you are heading in the right direction :D Even so, it could be a lot worse. Some Epson drivers I've seen you need a degree in rocket science to decode their driver options (although I'll admit they have improved)

Anyway, glad you are now getting good results. 8)

Cheers

Ian

[dphoto]

Ian,

LOL... it sounds like that +50 option was just put in there by Canon as a way to drain out the ink tanks. :)

Yeah, I'm happy with my results now, and I'm going to keep this printer. The prints are nice and it prints *fast*! I can't believe how fast a full resolution 8x10 comes out of this thing. It lends itself well to experimentation. :) I bought some 13x19 paper... now I need to produce an image worthy of that size! :)

Take care,
-Deva