Asked to take photos at a celebrity party. Help!

[devs]

Hi People, I’ve been asked to do the photography at a high class 30th Birthday party at a hotel in Manchester. I’m just a little concerned as to what kit I would need. I know that it’s a very hard question for you to answer, as it will depend mainly on the lighting.

I planning on taking a friend of mine, who is also a pretty good photographer, my thinking is that if there is two of us snapping away we should get some good images.

We will be using a G3 and a G5 could you suggest any manual settings that we should consider.

I need to try and get this right as there will be quite a few local stars their ManU Coronation Street etc.

Many Thanks,

Steve.

[Sailare]

Don't count of the built in flash unit.

Get or borrow a 420EX. and perhaps a Stofen omni-bounce diffuser

Put it in program P or automatic and fire away. Try to bounce the flash off something if possible. If the ceilings are high and the room big, use the diffuser.

Get their early and try a few shot. Being through the lens (TTL) automatic it's hard to go wrong.

[Andy_T]

Use RAW, so you can correct errors later in the conversion.

Bring enough loaded batteries, a charger, and ample CF cards.

Regards,
Andy

[cloudless]

Yes I think an external flash is a must. And if you are going to use one I think you should shoot in RAW format so it is easier to fine tune the WB. Oh and I suggest to use 2nd curtain slow sync if you want properly exposed background.

[PacAce]

...Oh and I suggest to use 2nd curtain slow sync if you want properly exposed background.

Huh? You lost me there. What does 2nd curtain have to do with a properly exposed background?

[Sailare]

To the best of my knowledge 2nd curtain sync is not available on these G series cameras. I speak only for my G2 which I know for sure does not.

P.S. If the originator knew about 2nd curtain sync I doubt he would be writing here asking some basic type shooting questions. you really need to understand the mechanics of cameras to appreciate this topic.

A bit of a simplified explaination --

-- 2nd Curtain sync - although available on some hi end digitals refers primarily to film cameras in which a curtain opens the lens to the film and is then followed by a second curtain which closes the lens to the film. This two curtain system allows for very short intervals.

Normal sync flash - Curtain opens, flash fires, meter read exposed, 2nd curtain closes. result - Background may be under exposed.

Sync the flash to the second curtain -- The curtain opens, the meter exposes the for the whole area. The flash fires just before the curtain closes and exposes the primary objects (as in people shots.) Background and subject exposed.

[vatey]

Hi there
after have taking photo for two wedding for around 2300 shots
this is my comment
you need:
420 ex 0r 380 ex,
the tripod
two or tree extras battery ,
extra compact flash or laptops,
white cart for costum white balance set up :idea: THIS VERY IMPORTANT WHEN SHOTTING INDOOR ,remember when subjet expose too many different light source, even you shot in RAW ,the color is still critical.
Enhance the picture with photoeditor software Adobe 7 ,color,level,contrast,ect..


Bonne chance
VATEY
Quebec

[cloudless]

To the best of my knowledge 2nd curtain sync is not available on these G series cameras. I speak only for my G2 which I know for sure does not.

My G3 has 2nd curtain sync, for sure. :-)

[cloudless]

Huh? You lost me there. What does 2nd curtain have to do with a properly exposed background?

Sorry I was referring to slow sync for the properly exposed background. The 2nd curtain is for properly exposed subject in the foreground. My sentence was a bit too short perhaps.

[PacAce]

Huh? You lost me there. What does 2nd curtain have to do with a properly exposed background?

Sorry I was referring to slow sync for the properly exposed background. The 2nd curtain is for properly exposed subject in the foreground. My sentence was a bit too short perhaps.

Just my 2 cents but...

1) I would NOT use slow sync for shooting people at a party because, depending on lighting conditions, the shutter may be open for longer than 1/60 second which will cause blurring of the background and the people who are moving about. Unless of course a tripod is being used which I think is highly unlikely.

Best bet is to keep the camera on P mode. In P mode, the shutter will be held at 1/60 which is long enough to get a good exposure of the background (which, btw, I'm assuming is indoors and not outdoors in the dark open space) and the camera will determine the aperture appropriate for the flash exposure.

2) 2nd curtain really isn't going to buy you anything here. The purpose of 2nd curtain is get a more natural "trail" when shooting moving objects using a flash and a long exposure. However, setting the camera to 2nd curtain shouldn't hurt anything either, except that maybe there's a better chance of catching people blinking when the flash goes off immediately after the pre-flash.

[cloudless]

I would NOT use slow sync for shooting people at a party because, ...

It really depends on the lighting. If the background is dark, slow sync can help to balance the exposure between the subject and the background.


In P mode, the shutter will be held at 1/60 which is long enough to get a good exposure of the background (which, btw, I'm assuming is indoors and not outdoors in the dark open space) and the camera will determine the aperture appropriate for the flash exposure.


I thought the P mode determines BOTH the shutter and the aperture. Are you sure it stays 1/60?


2nd curtain really isn't going to buy you anything here.


Some people might think the shot is complete once the flash is fired, if they start moving as soon as they see the flash then you're going to get a blurred picture. 2nd curtain can help to reduce such kind of blur.

[PacAce]

It really depends on the lighting. If the background is dark, slow sync can help to balance the exposure between the subject and the background.

If it's really dark, then the camera will set shutter slower than 1/60 or 1/45 and you will require a tripod to steady the camera.

When shooting flash pictures in a room, 1/60 is usually good enough even for gettng the background, especially with an external flash, unless we're talking about a huge ballroom hall.


I thought the P mode determines BOTH the shutter and the aperture. Are you sure it stays 1/60?


Yes, I am 100% absolutely, positively sure that the shutter stays at 1/60 if a flash is required. It won't go any slower than that. Of course, that's assuming that Slow Sync is set to OFF and that the flash has not been turned off.

Some people might think the shot is complete once the flash is fired, if they start moving as soon as they see the flash then you're going to get a blurred picture. 2nd curtain can help to reduce such kind of blur.

Sorry but your reasoning fails here because the camera WILL fire a preflash to determine the flash exposure required BEFORE the actual picture is taken. So people who are inclined to think that a picture has already been taken when a flash goes off will still think so even when 2nd curtain is used because of the preflash.

And beside, this is a moot point when shooting with a shutter speed of 1/60. But I can't say the same thing when shooting with slow-sync turned on and the shutter speed is set very low by the camera because of the dim lighting. And hence another reason NOT to use slow-sync.

[Sailare]

Ok -my last go around on this and a great link for those interested in the details of Flash etc with Canon cameras

I assume this is a Cocktail type of setting that you are shooting in, so I say stay with P or automatic and an external flash with a diffuser. You do not have contol over the people or their movements so you need to stay away from long shutter openings or you will get blurring. It's not the background that is important anyway. A tripod solves camera movement at long shutter opening, but does nothing for moving people. You want to avoid flash in the face and red eye so use bounce or the diffuser.

I checked my references on the G series and they do have "slow shutter" which is a long shutter open setting (Tv) with flash on. The long shutter opening exposes the picture and the flash highlites the subject.

I do not see anything on "2nd curtain shutter" whose purpose is a different effect. This is for shooting moving subjects such as runners and produces that correct blurred moving effect. (go to the link for the big explanation)

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash

[devs]

Hi Guys and many thanks for all the replies – I’m truly overwhelmed.

Are you all pretty confidant that I will require an external flash as they seem quite expensive and I would not really have a use for it after I’ve done the photos for this party.

I don’t know anyone that I could lend one from so I would have to purchase one from ebay or the likes. I trust that a 420ex or 380ex speedlight flash will fit my Canon G5. Just a couple of questions regarding the flash do you know if they take batteries or draw there power from the camera, also what is the difference between the 420 and 380. I trust that the 420 is just more powerful.

I’ve taken note of the using RAW tip and will shoot in this mode.

Vatey you mentioned "white cart for costum white balance set up" could you explain a little more about this please as I don’t fully understand what you mean?

Just to confirm what would be the best mode to keep the camera in should it be in P mode at 1/60 like PacAce suggested or auto?

Yes the party is indoors at a hotel.

Sailare, you suggested using bounce or the diffuser to avoid flash in the face and red eye are these external accessories or an in camera feature? I know that red eye is in camera but I’m not sure about the terminology.

Anyway thanks for all your help people – I’m getting a little nervous now! :?

Cheers,

Steve.

[Andy_T]

As to the flash question - I can only tell about my (very limited) experience, no in-depth flash knowledge.

If you select 2nd curtain sync, then the camera takes in the background light with a long exposure (e.g. 1/100 or 1/60) and then fires the flash.

As to my knowledge, the shutter closes in TTL mode, when the picture is exposed enough. For this reason, the camera would maybe not keep the shutter open to capture the background light if the first curtain flash already provided enough light.

I have used manual setting (f/5.6, 1/60 - 1/100, Metz MZ40 flash aimed at the ceiling, RAW) with (for my requirements) satisfactory results on two occasions.

Do you have any opportunity to take a test run at a similar venue?

Regards,
Andy

[Sailare]

Steve,

As you have limited knowledge of flash, a rather complex topic once you get into it, read the first few pages of this article for a summary of flash problems and suggestions --- good reading

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash

If you can get a 420EX that is what you want. It runs on 4 batteries separate from the camera - get the long life disposable alkaline. they last longer than rechargeable and obviously cost less. They should last 2-300 shots or better.

The 420EX along with the G2,G3,G5 is fully automatic. When you zoom, the flash range zooms in sync with it. It reads the flashs output requirement through the camera lens as does the exposure. Virtually fool proof.

The flash head can be swiveled around and up to point in any direction you want. Usually at a low ( 8'-10') white ceiling. If the ceiling is high, you will want to point the flash at the subject. A diffuser is a milk white plastic cap that snaps over the flash glass and softens the exposure. again see the details in the article I pointed you to. The purpose of Bounce and diffusers are exactly for this type of photography situation.

When you got your g camera, I would guess you used it for a while on "automatic" with good results, then started experimenting with the other modes -right? Well that is what you want with your first flash as well. You want to be concentrating on getting the shot of those celebs and not tryin to figure out what to do with the camera and flash. If you miss or ruin a shot by exerimenting with settings, you will never get the opportunity again. This is a one time party. The composition and overall mood of the picture is not the object here. It's getting a good sharp, properly exposed picture of interesting people. When someone looks at it for the first time, you want them to say - Woww what a great shot of "Queen Elizabeth" How did you get so close with no red eye? - not -Who is that standing in front of those perfectly epxoed ugly drapes?

I still say, based on your experience and the importance of this first shoot, to set the camera on automatic or "P". If the flash is "on" or in automatic as needed mode (no icon showing) the camera will always select a shutter speed that will be fast enough for hand holding (60-250) and put out the correct amount of flash to be sure of getting the "subject" exposed correctly. In these two modes, the camera and flash have been designed to accomplish this as a priority. The background may or may not be fully exposed and is a secondary consideration. Remember you are taking people shots. The background is not that important in the ranking.

The cameras settings match the shooting situation priority. why mess with that.

Yes, I know the 420EX is pricey. Its reliable and a perfect match for the camera. I have never read anything negative on the forum about the 420EX with the g cameras.

Don't experiment on this one - Let the canon engineers with their decades of experience do it for you. trust them!

Good luck! let us know how it goes

[kanwingshing]

PacAce wrote: I would NOT use slow sync for shooting people at a party because, depending on lighting conditions, the shutter may be open for longer than 1/60 second which will cause blurring of the background and the people who are moving about. Unless of course a tripod is being used which I think is highly unlikely.

If you don't open the shutter long enough.. you would only see faces flooded by flash without any background at all. If I were you I would care less about what shutter speed to use, even if it's lower than 1/60 would be ok. Use a powerful flash to freeze you object. 2nd curtain can produce a sharper flashed expose object. Set the ISO to a higher value (200-400 depending on your lighting that night). I would do it this way.

[Sailare]

If you don't open the shutter long enough.. you would only see faces flooded by flash without any background at all.

Steve,
Again on automatic and P the shutter is ALWAYS between 60 and 250 and good for hand held. You will not get pictures of "faces flooded with flash" as the camera automatically exposes the shot correctly for you. Read the part about bounce and diffuers one more time.

The last reply seems to be shooting in manual mode with a Flash unit that only fires full blast which you are not.. This is also not the correct use of second curtain flash. Stay with the basics.

[devs]

Hi Sailare and many many thanks for the detailed post!

I’m just printing out all the information from http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash it appears to be a great resource – I’ll read through it all tonight…

I can’t really think of anything to say, other than thank you and I need to do some research and get hold of a 420EX flash.

I will most certainly yet you know how I get on at the party!

Regards,

Steve.

[kanwingshing]

If you really don't need people to see the party background yes go head with the P mode then. If you want your picture to tell people where they are then you need to do more. In flash photography in order to make your subject clear, shutter speed is not as critical as in non-flash type. Bouce and diffuser does give you a more evenly distrubuted light. On the other hand, it uses up your juice on your flash a lot faster and photo tends to be flatter (lighting wise). Steve, I really suggest you to try out these method before going into the party before you find out the bouce effect might not be suitable for this job.

[vatey]

I would like to say , it is very important to have a white paperboard for manual white balanc set up, because enemy of digital camera is WHITE BALANC(ESPECIALY INDOOR)