Canon would get a LOT more of my money if....

[Joytek]

....the "dust on the sensor" issue would have been addressed. I would gladly purchase a few more L lenses if only I wouldn't have to worry about dust getting into the camera. I swab and get excellent results but the process is a pain in the arse and it's actually quite ridiculous considering how "advanced" and expensive the d-slr gear is.

As it stands I make due with only two lenses (17-40 and 70-200 f4) and am missing lots of focal lenghts but am not willing to spend more cash on any other lenses until the d-slrs become at least a bit more dust resistant (dust-proof would be preferable)

I don't know how other users feel about this issue but to me the dust on the sensor issue is quite important. I take the vast majority of my shots with the camera on a tripod and at f13 (as this seems to be a sweetspot with the 10d). I love the vast depth of view but this is also when the spots start showing up. If they appear on uniform areas of the picture it is no problem to clone them out but since most of my shots are rather busy with delicate detail it is nearly impossible to eliminate all the spots without actually degrading the image quality of the shot. As far as I am concerned this blows.

I know that with film the issue of dust is big too and people spend hours brushing and inking their prints but I would think that digital would be a step forward and not just a side step. :roll:

Sorry about this little rant but today was an especially dusty day :evil: :wink:

w.

[ron chappel]

Sorry to hear your troubles
I really wonder when my first sensor clean will be....i thought it would be much worse than this from what i've heard.



I read something interesting about nikon.Apparently the (even worse) problems that nikon owners have is mostly due to the outer filter layer over the sensor being closer than canon has...so dust is more in focus.

[defordphoto]

I also have had very few problems with dust. I have a 18 month old D60 and a 9 month old 10D. The D60 sensor has been cleaned twice and the 10D has been cleaned once. The 10D is now due again as it has a little dust booger in it. I have used Eclipse and pec-pads once on the D60.

And our cameras go everywhere. The beach, the many racetracks we go do, which are ALL dusty. I don't use P&S cameras at all. Can't stand the delays. So these cameras are always our everyday shooters.

And it has nothing to do with the lenses. All L-glass are dirt/rain proof. The others are certainly dust proof. Make sure you are not changing lenses in high dust areas and if you are, use a lens changing bag which can be as simple as a plastic trashbag.

If you operate in super high dust areas then wrap the camera in a plastic bag and tape it up or use a rain protector and then do not change lenses at all.

[ron chappel]

A few times in 18 months-now that's not bad.I could easily live with that

[Joytek]

I guess that when shooting sports action you use your lenses wide open most of the time RFM. When wide open, the dust is not visible but around f8 it becomes slightly visible and at f13 is clearly visible. You must be very luck or something, because I have to clean my sensor about 2 times a week. So let's see, i have had the camera for around eight months....two times a week....that means I have cleaned the sensor around 64 times already!!! And I do not change the lenses nearly as much as I would like because I don't want to spend my free time cleaning that damned piece of glass!!! :D

I love the quality of the pics that come out of my 10D but the dust is a real bug!!

w.

[RichardtheSane]

I'm not going to let an issue that affects all DSLR's get in the way of me missing out on certain focal lengths.
I fail to see how the isue can easily be addressed. You change the lens, dust gets in.

[Tapeman]

Dust is everywhere. Buy a body for each lense & silicone them togrther :)

[Belmondo]

It would be interesting to see if there's any connection between a camera’s propensity for collecting dust, and ambient humidity. I live in the desert, and we have a lot of wind with all kinds of airborne matter. Most of the places I shoot are far less than ideal as to cleanliness, and I change lenses frequently. Yet despite all that, I have very little trouble with dust on the sensor. On the rare occasions when dust does show up, a few puffs of air always resolve the problem completely. The only thing I can attribute that to is that humidity is almost always very low here.

As an aside-----I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box, but I don’t see how Canon could possibly build a DSLR with interchangeable lenses where the sensor is hermetically sealed in the body. It would of necessity create another layer of glass which itself would be capable of attracting dust, and therefore have to be kept clean.

To me, it’s a ‘design feature’ of single lens reflexes. Let’s be happy that Canon builds lenses (albeit very expensive ones) that are almost ‘dust-proof.’

Thos.

[elm54]

I hear ya Joytek, I am ever thinking of dust on the sensor when changing lenses. the first time I discovered it I thought there was something wrong with the lens or the body and messed with it for about an hour , Taking pictures of a blank wall with different lenses at different settings. And then sending the body back to Canon for service ( warranty ) . This was all back when I first got the camera , my first DSLR. since then I haven't had much problem with dust and what I have had I've mostly delt with in Photoshop.
But I woulcn't deprive myself of a focal length for it . My 24-70 stays as my most used lens. But I do like my 17-40 and my 100 macro. I am still debating between a 300 or a 100-400 :? and of course I wish I had gotten a Dell :(
Carefull you don't wipe the sensor bare :wink: But I do share your feelings about dust being a Pain :!:

Peace
Eric

[defordphoto]

I guess that when shooting sports action you use your lenses wide open most of the time RFM. When wide open, the dust is not visible but around f8 it becomes slightly visible and at f13 is clearly visible. You must be very luck or something, because I have to clean my sensor about 2 times a week. So let's see, i have had the camera for around eight months....two times a week....that means I have cleaned the sensor around 64 times already!!! And I do not change the lenses nearly as much as I would like because I don't want to spend my free time cleaning that damned piece of glass!!! :D

I love the quality of the pics that come out of my 10D but the dust is a real bug!!

w.

You would think so, but I shoot much more than motorsports. The lens is rarely wide open really, but that doesn't matter. I check my cameras on a regular basis and like I said, my 10D does need cleaning now, but two times a week? Sheesh! That's incredible.

Tom: I live in one of the most humid states on the planet and have very few dust issues.

[Belmondo]

Tom: I live in one of the most humid states on the planet and have very few dust issues.

Just thinking outloud now, but the higher the humidity, the lower the static electricity, generally. If static electricity has anything to do with attracting dust, that would tend to run contrary to my 'life in the desert' theory.

Maybe there's room for both possibilities.

Anyway, the real answer is to
1. When possible, change lenses in an environment that's as dust-free as you can find. Usually, that is NOT inside your car.
2. Leave the body open and the sensor exposed as briefly as possible. If you’re going to take a minute or two to ‘fiddle’ with your lenses, cap the body. I worry more about losing my body cap than any of my lens caps because it’s more valuable to the ultimate cleanliness of the camera itself.
3. If possible, give the sensor a couple perfunctory puffs of air from your blower brush while the lens is off. It adds about 5 seconds to the time it takes to change a lens, and is time well spent. I don’t worry about using the ‘Clean Sensor’ setting----just a little blast to clear out any dust that might be looking for a place to affix itself. Also, a couple puffs on the rear of the lens being installed can’t hurt.
4. Always keep the camera body pointed down during lens changes. (The same logic says an upside-down bucket isn’t going to collect any rain. Unfortunately, dust [unlike rain] is almost as likely to go up as well as down.)
5. When not in use, store the camera in a well sealed dust-free container. I’m lucky enough to have scored a couple used Halibrand aluminum cases, and they are great. Not only are they well padded, but they do a great job of keeping dust away from all the equipment when not in use.

It’s all common sense and really easy, but still not a 100% guarantee that dust won’t become a problem.

Thos. :roll: :wink:

[TeraGram93013]

To my way of thinking the dust issue has been addressed. Canon engineered the 10D (the only Canon I own, don't know about other models) with a simple and elegant solution: the ability to clean the darned thing yourself.

Compare this to my little Fuji 2800z, which is NOT a dSLR, and has a permanently attached lens. The dust got inside of that camera as if I had sealed it in a pillow case full of cat hair, flour, shredded toilet paper and feathers and shook it all up for a month of Sundays. The only option is to send the camera down for service, which will take between 2 - 8 weeks!

My Nikon N2000, a 35mm SLR, also has dust problems. Since there is no sensor it isn't as critical nor delicate to resolve the situation. There have been times when I've opened up the camera back to change film and noticed a dog hair or some fiber stuck in the inner workings. A quick and steady grab with some tweezers removed it, but still! How did it get there? How did it manage to work itself between the leaves?

What sort of technology could be employed to minimize the dust problem?

In commercial production units where dust is a problem, often times a positive airflow is utilized. Should that be employed in the Canon dSLRs? Where should the fan be mounted? How will it effect image quality and camera stability? No, this isn't a viable option for a camera.

Another thing that is often used in dust abatement is negative and positive ion generation. This too is a bad idea for a camera. They're electronic gizmos! Setting up any cloud of charge internally would surely be disasterous for the CF cards.


In short, the dust issue isn't new nor especially unique to Canon dSLRs and Canon has supplied us with the means to resolve the situation ourselves.

[defordphoto]

2. Leave the body open and the sensor exposed as briefly as possible.

Just a note to clarify: The sensor is never exposed when you are changing lenses. But yes, you should change lenses quickly, always making sure to mount the new lens first before doing anything else as the dust that may enter the camera (where the mirror and shutter are) my get swept into the actual sensor area when actuated.

As Tom also said, it might not be a bad idea to give the opening a quick puff of air before mounting the new lens.

[Canuck]

Just a question...
I know the 10D has a Sensor Clean from menu, and is it effective? I did one on mine Friday and haven't had a chance to really shoot with it yet. It certainly left the batteries very dead, so much so that I couldn't even take a pic! Batteries really needed charging, likethe full 90min x2! Where is the double charger that the D60.

[Belmondo]

Since I don't see any happy faces, I'll assume this is a serious question. All sensor clean does is lock the mirror up so you can blow off or clean the sensor. As soon as you turn the camera off, the mirror snaps back into place. It shouldn't drain your battery unless you're leaving the mirror up and the camera on.

Thos.

[CoolToolGuy]

I was just nosing around the DPREVIEW postings from PMA, and I saw something that got the brain working (can be dangerous!) :lol:
Anyway, the shot of the Sigma SD10 seems to show a red curtain just behind the lens mount, and that got me thinking about activating a 'lens change' mode where the body is sealed (at least from dust) prior to removing the lens. My thought on this earlier today (before I noticed the Sigma) was to seal the edges of the mirror to protect the sensor (this may already be), but the body cavity is much larger, and there is lots of room, figuratively and literally, for dust to enter.
Now, I don't have my stuff with me at the moment, but a question might be if any lenses, converters, etc. protrude further into the cavity than others. The EF-S lens might, but since this is such a delicate area (to clean), it might be in Canon's interest to provide a solution. I'm sure they don't want all those DSLR bodies coming to the Canon Service Centers once a month just for sensor cleaning. :shock:
After all, Canon is 'Revolutionizing Digital', right? :wink:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[scsmith10D]

I assume the shutter is closed when you change lenses. The sensor is behind the shutter, so no dust should immediately fall onto the sensor - it just may fall into the body and eventually get floated behind the shutter during one of its cycles.

[ron chappel]

60+ cleanings and no scratching or rubbing any coatings off?Not bad

Doesn't the olamepus E1 have some kind of sensor clean function?
Negative/positive ions or somesuch?

[theoldmoose]

The E1 uses an ultrasonic transducer, coupled with some sort of charged tray. The idea is to 'shake' the dust off of the sensor with ultrasonics, and then hold it in the little catch tray at the bottom of the sensor with some sort of static charge. This assumes that dust which is shaken from the sensor will somehow fall 'down'. If someone is handling the camera during this cleaning function, I'd say that it's anybody's guess which direction the dust will float away from the sensor, if at all.

No independent data I know of of (yet) that indicates that this really helps or not.

But, it's a cool sales gimmick, if nothing else. :)