Hard drive setup question?

[Col_M]

I'm currently looking to build a new computer as my old system is starting to feel its age.
Since I've got my 5D I've noticed that my HDD space is being eaten away pretty fast (only currently got 200Gb). I'm thinking of getting 3 HDDs in total

1x 150Gb WD Raptor for OS, games etc (could get away wth a 74Gb if I want to save money)
2x X00Gb Samsung spinpoints for photos and all other data

Option 1:
Setup the two Samsungs in RAID 1

Option 2:
Have one drive in an external enclosure that I backup the one in the computer to once a week.

With the latter if I disconnect the external enclosure completely until I actually backup, my data should be protected if I lose (electrical damage, failure, theft etc) the computer itself but it will require me to physically remember to backup on a weekly basis. RAID 1 on the other hand will in effect automatically backup for me but won't protect me from accidental deletion or a catastrophic loss of the computer. It's all roundabouts and swings tbh

I'm currently being tempted by option 2 as it's more secure plus i'm planning to get a Shuttle (lifestyle requirements) and space inside it is at a premium.

What would you recommend? either the options above or something completely different :)

[sapearl]

A lot of people have RAIDS, they like them and they work pretty well. I have no experience with them, and took the lazy out - I accumulate extra hard drives when they go on sale.

I currently run a 160GB SATA HD for OS and CS2. My second, or scratch drive is 250GB internal SATA where I keep all the RAW stuff from my 5D. I just got a 3rd internal SATA HD on sale at Best Boy (500GB for $149) which I use as a backup for the stuff on my 250GB.

I also have two external regular ATA hard drives that I keep video on, as well as other backup stuff. All of my RAW files are also burned to two sets of DVD's. - Stu

[StealthLude]

There are lots of ways you can do it, but this is what I do.

I got about 2000 gigs worth of storage. (Including backup space)

My main system is yes, a 36 gig raptor for OS, few games, photoshop.
I have another 36 raptor giger for a dedicated scratch disk for photoshop... I also mirror a few critial things from the other raptor onto this drive but its done using a program called smartbackup. Then I run two 250 gig drives on RAID 1 for storage and other stuff.

My server system, is where it gets wild, i got a HARDWARE 3ware 8 port RAID card and a mess of 320 gig drives doing RAID 5 array and another RAID 1 and 0 array.

That is where I hold my backup of my "backup" The backup of my raid 1 config on my main desktop. It is also where i store (on my raid 5 array) all my photos, videos , and other stuff that I dont look at or use all the time.

I also have two 250 gig externals.... which I dont use often.

To answer your question kinda, yes I still backup my Raid 1 array on my main system. I dont like manual backup, since it never gets done on a regular basis. If you do that, use software like smart backup or norton ghost or acronis.

I applaud the fact you want to use raid 1, most people are not willing up "give up" a drive. Im a huge raid fan, I use it, I love it. I spent $500 on just the raid card, the things so freakin fast that saving a 500 meg tiff file makes you think it didnt even do it.

[sapearl]

Just another thought - I seriously considered a RAID array, but I didn't really want to lock up two HD's like that in a specialized configuration. I tend to rearrange directory structures and files, and felt that would constrain my "habits.":lol:

[sapearl]

OK Stealth - you win, beating me with your Royal Straigth Flush!:D I'm IMPRESSED.

[nadtz]

raid 1 on its own is no backup. If your files/filesystem is corrupt, guess what happens to the mirror? Given the options presented Id say for the more robust system go with 2. But Id probably get 1 more drive and have a system with raid 1 that I backed up to external/another system/whatever.

[Col_M]

WOW a lot of replies already :)

Although if I had the space I'd love to have a raid array with good redundancy (StealthLude made an admirable post for the benefit of RAID) it's not really feasable with a Shuttle that has 2 HDD bays :( If things were different I'd keep my tower for that reason but in the next few years I going to have to keep mobile so the size of the computer is a key factor..but on the flipside I don't want a laptop due to limited gaming and photoshop performance (been there done that wasn't impressed), hence the Shuttle :)

I'll have a home network set up so i'm thinking that I could put the backup HDD in a NAS enclosure and get some software that will regularly backup the internal drive to it, it won't be fast by any means but it will physically seperate the data and remove the need for me to remember to backup. Something to think about anyway :)

[Canuck]

I've got 2x 120GB in RAID 0 (Stripe) for the speed, but also back that up to several external (USB 2.0) drives, as well as every so often, archive the lot on DVD. My main concern is loosing the originals (RAWs), and as such they are the main priority. I can always go back and re tweek a RAW pic, but if all you have is a downsized JPEG for e-mailing that was a RAW, well, there is that perverbial being up the creek without the paddle. It's not so much the HDs failing more than it is windoze crashing that I am concerned about. Without that, it can be a pain to get it all back together and up and running.

[StealthLude]

raid 1 on its own is no backup. If your files/filesystem is corrupt, guess what happens to the mirror? Given the options presented Id say for the more robust system go with 2. But Id probably get 1 more drive and have a system with raid 1 that I backed up to external/another system/whatever.

Well thats pretty correct. A raid 1 config is just a mirror, and the only thing it will protect you from really is a physical hard drive faliur...

If you file system is corrupt thats a different type of faliur... The main purpose of raid is only to help save you from physical disc malfunctions.

But at the same time, the same goes for ANY raid configuration. Raid 5, 10, 1+0 its all the same. Saves you from physical drive faliurs only. Thats why I also ladder backups of critical data onto externals, and take them offsite, if you are smart. (offsite protects you from theft and fire, things like that)

Laddering is keeping multiple dated revisions of the same thing. I dont do that with pictures, but I do that with work data. So I have 3 Externals which go into cycles just like a tape backup system. 1 for each week, and they are in a rotation.

[StealthLude]

WOW a lot of replies already :)

Although if I had the space I'd love to have a raid array with good redundancy (StealthLude made an admirable post for the benefit of RAID) it's not really feasable with a Shuttle that has 2 HDD bays :( If things were different I'd keep my tower for that reason but in the next few years I going to have to keep mobile so the size of the computer is a key factor..but on the flipside I don't want a laptop due to limited gaming and photoshop performance (been there done that wasn't impressed), hence the Shuttle :)

I'll have a home network set up so i'm thinking that I could put the backup HDD in a NAS enclosure and get some software that will regularly backup the internal drive to it, it won't be fast by any means but it will physically seperate the data and remove the need for me to remember to backup. Something to think about anyway :)

I like NAS (network attached storage) systems. Thats pretty much what I use my server for. I run Windows Small Buisness Server 2003, and host my own web server, exchange email server, and file server. I have read only user accounts for customers, friends and family that want to do photo retreaval and thing of that nature. The other point of NAS is that if I had a critial hardware faliur in my main desktop PC, for examples my power supply took a crap, and fryed my ram , processor , and multiple hard drives... I have storage on a seperate system.

Ill tell you one thing tho. I owned a cheap raid card at one point, and at that point More storage more problems... I can spend a weekend managing my raid system, data and harddrives. This is why I bought a high end raid card.. I had had a drive faliur at one point on one of my 320 gig raid 5 drives.... Thing died about 2-3 weeks after buying it, BUT, i have a feature on my 3ware card call "hot spare" which is a drive that sits there, online, doing nothing until you have faliur. The system automaticaly rebuilds the failed disk from the parity info. onto the hot spare, and also sends me a text message e-mail onto my cell phone letting me know what has happened. :D

For your application, id say just go with a old computer + raid card and make ur own (NAS system) if you have the money, because you can always expand with the card using something called Raid Level Migration. If you have a 4 port or 8 port card, and you only have 4 drives (3 for raid 5) and one hot spare. IF you ever wanted more space, just add a drive, and hit expand raid config 5, and it automatically recalcs all drives into a 4 drive + 1 hot spare raid config, ON THE FLY, and your system is still in operation. (if you have a decent internet connection and firewall, use remote desktop and you got ur own little mini personal server) Use a VPN if you can. I have a Watchguard X20 E series firewall with a VPN running.

I can talk about this crap all night so ill stop now :lol:

[StealthLude]

Just incase you wanted to know what card I use...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16816116037

I love 3ware card, excellent customer server, good product and GUI. Highly recommend. The card alone has 256 megs of casch ram, + whatever is on your drive, usually 8mn or 16mb per drive. When you drag and drop a 100-200 leg TIFF file, its like it never happened. It just buffers into casche then writes it all into the drives. (assuming you have write casching enabled). Should you choose to do this, I also recomend a battery backup unit on your system.

ok.. im more of a computer nurd than a photog.. there, i admit it.

[strmrdr]

cooling is the key to long hard drive life.
I recommend using drive bays with fans for all drives.
90% of computer cases out there don't have enough cooling for the drives.
Putting them right on top of each other will guarantee a fried drive pretty quickly.

[StealthLude]

cooling is the key to long hard drive life.
I recommend using drive bays with fans for all drives.
90% of computer cases out there don't have enough cooling for the drives.
Putting them right on top of each other will guarantee a fried drive pretty quickly.


Very true, each one of my drives are in a hot swap bay with 2 fans per drive. No i dont have a fancy server room with AC units, but keeping that air moving is pretty important.

Heat is a killer. Also, one thing more people dont think about, is clean power. The AC power comming out of the wall can be "dirty"

They have battery backups with Sine Wave power out , which is a fancy word for clean power. If you are anal like me, you can add that to the mix too. But yes, cooling is WAY more critical.

[SkipD]

Keep your old computer. Get rid of everything but the operating system on it, and use it (networked to your main one) as a storage bin for the photo files. Turn it off when you are not transferring files to it. That way, if a virus or a power spike hits your main machine and takes it out, it won't affect the (turned off) file storage computer.

[Raymate]

I just got the Western Digital 1TB box and set it as a mirror RAID, this unit does have a lound fan but they have just done a firmware update the way the fan works.

Very pleased with it and so far I have almost filled it (90 GB free now)

Better still amazon had it on offer for £299

[sapearl]

Very wise advice - too often we overlook this form of "recycling." ;)

Keep your old computer. Get rid of everything but the operating system on it, and use it (networked to your main one) as a storage bin for the photo files. Turn it off when you are not transferring files to it. That way, if a virus or a power spike hits your main machine and takes it out, it won't affect the (turned off) file storage computer.

[rhys]

Keep your old computer. Get rid of everything but the operating system on it, and use it (networked to your main one) as a storage bin for the photo files. Turn it off when you are not transferring files to it. That way, if a virus or a power spike hits your main machine and takes it out, it won't affect the (turned off) file storage computer.

Good idea. I built my own server. Essentially it was a PC with a few more hard drives. I loaded SME Linux on it and it runs brilliantly. Not a problem since I set the system up 4 years ago. Not a single crash. No lost data. Perfect operation.

For extra security run your computer systems through a UPS.

If you use a fast server yuo can network it to several slow PCs and run the software from the server using the slow PCs as dumb terminals. That works quite well.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Col,

Re: the two matching SpinPoints drives;
I would do the RAID 1 now, and add a third external hard drive when you can. (preferably larger, but at least the same size, and do it soon)

Alternatively, you could start with One internal and one external, and then add a third as the Mirror in a RAID1 later, but I think you'll find the best way to get a matched pair for RAID1 is to get them together.

In short, I prefer and use BOTH options you list, combined. It offers the best of both worlds and the additional cost of one more hard drive is not that high in todays day and age of affordable storage.

[Col_M]

Keep your old computer.

That's the problem, i'm moving abroad, my current tower is far to big to realistically take with me so i'm going to get a Shuttle that I can carry with me in a shoulder bag if needs be, also in a small flat a big tower would get in the way :)

The Shuttle SD37P2 that i'm looking to get should be able to hold all 3 drives (at the expense of a floppy drive) but packing it out like that will affect cooling and as we all know heat isn't the friend of HDDs, that's mainly why I was looking to external storage for the backup drive.

CDS, I agree with everything you said but having an "OS" drive + 2 drives in RAID 1, but like I mentioned above I'm worried that with a full case I could well shorten the life of my drives due to heat. I'm not trying to be stubborn honest ;)

Another networked computer isn't really where i want to go either, it would be fine for a permanant solution but it's just not practical for my needs, which is why i'm thinking of a small portable and discrete NAS enclosure that I can plug into a home network :)

Thanks for ALL the great input so far though :D

[SkipD]

Another SIMPLE idea: get a USB hard drive for the purpose of storing photo files. 160GB should do - at least for the "keepers". Don't leave it plugged in. Just connect it when you want to do the backups to it from the main computer.

We use one of these in 80GB size to back up Cindy's files, and it isn't any larger than a PDA. It's a Firelite brand. Here it is on the web: Firelite Portable Drives (http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/fireliteporthdd.asp). I believe I paid $135 for the 80GB version. I have one for work as well, and it hides away in my notebook computer case very nicely.

[Col_M]

Another SIMPLE idea: get a USB hard drive for the purpose of storing photo files. 160GB should do - at least for the "keepers". Don't leave it plugged in. Just connect it when you want to do the backups to it from the main computer.

We use one of these in 80GB size to back up Cindy's files, and it isn't any larger than a PDA. It's a Firelite brand. Here it is on the web: Firelite Portable Drives (http://www.smartdisk.com/eWeb/smartdiskus/www/staticpages/fireliteporthdd.asp). I believe I paid $135 for the 80GB version. I have one for work as well, and it hides away in my notebook computer case very nicely.

aye that's along the lines of what i was thinking, having some kind of external backup :) cheers Skip

[sapearl]

There's a place called www.dealsonic.com that sells all kinds of external drive enclosures. I purchased a couple of USB and firewire enclosures, reasonably inexpensive, and then bought internal, fast hard drives on sale, and made my own do-it-yourself external storage drives. The gear is pretty flexible and you can easily change out the drives anytime you decide to buy something bigger. - Stu