First model shoot...help (update with pics!)

[clos]

okay, I have been doing casual portrait work for a little while now and have been getting away fine using:

Canon 10D
Canon 50mm 1.8
Sigma 28-105mm 4.4-5.6 USM
Canon 420EX Speedlight
White foam board with an asistant working it

I now have scheduled a shoot with a willing albeit somewhat inexperienced model. The shoot will be indoors (at my small home) and our goal is to get some decent headshots (not a problem) and some fashion type prints (yikes). I won't have my assistant, I have never done this type of shoot and am a bit nervous.

I have recently acquired a BGED Hand Grip (no big deal) and a 550EX Speedlight. I have ben looking at glamour magazines and realize I need some sort of backdrop. I am thinking of purchasing a role of white or grey paper for that seemless backround look...okay in my anxiousness I have started to ramble, I digress...

I need help:

a. What should of light set up should I use? I am thinking maybe bouncing the 550 off the ceiling and either positioning the 420 off to the side a little bit below eye level or directly below and infront of me pointing up (clamshell type set up). Either 1:3 ratio or 1:1 with the clamshell type set up.

b. Should I get white or grey backround roll of paper?

c. What else should I buy? reflectors? reflector stand?

d. Should I get another light source? Another 420EX, a spot beam for behind the head lighting or to light the backdrop, a diffuser for the 420EX perhaps (is there an umbrella set up for the 420EX?)

e. What can anybody suggest for a resource for poses?

Whew...sorry for the long post your help in this would be greatly appreciated!

-Clos

[clos]

I should add that i don't want to spend that much more money and the shoot is in two days.

[ChrisNardone]

You should go to your local bookstore and buy a book on portrait photography. You need one that has a section on lighting.

To answer a couple of your questions. You don't want the main light or fill light to be below eye level. You want it slightly above for most types of lighting. Also, a grey background will be more forgiving than a white background when it comes to even lighting, shadows etc.

You can also search the net:

http://www.tpub.com/content/photography/14209/css/14209_199.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~terryleedawson/dcnotes/portraits.htm

http://www.vividlight.com/articles/1615.htm

http://people.clemson.edu/~emweise/PDFs/Lighting.pdf

etc.


You really need some light stands, and umbrellas or the like and/or reflectors. At a minimum, buy something like the Stofen Omnibounce

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=216907&is=REG

That won't break you bank.

Plan B: if you're lucky to be within range of a decent photography supply store, you can rent most if not everything you'll need to get a good professional setup. i.e. background stands, light stands, good strobes, reflectors...

These are just a few suggestions. Good luck.

[clos]

Thanks Chris!

I usually bounce my light instead of using a diffuser like the omnibounce.

Would bouncing the light off an umbrella give me a better quality of light than what I currently use which is a white foam board?

Just so you don't think I am totally idiot here a couple portraits I have done using the foam board and 420EX.

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_773A1A72-914B-13B7-CFC51F68F1ED873E.jpg

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_77497858-BF7B-2BE2-D49728511251D288.jpg

I think I'm just nervous because I don't have an assistant and a backdrop.

Please any other advice would be great. This board hasn't let me down before.

[ChrisNardone]

Those are good portraits. I know you're no idiot. It looks like you've got a good eye for portrait work, but there's a lot of knowledge in a good book that could get you better in a hurry and give you more confidence before the shoot.

[evilenglishman]

--

[cgratti]

clos, you are obviously good at what you do and have an eye for it.

I don't think you should worry, just jump in and do it as you do your portraits!
Go out and spend some cash on fashion magazines or look for model websites for some posing giudes.

here is a good start: http://supermodels.tiscali.nl/

or try this one...

http://photographytips.com/page.cfm/374

[clos]

Thanks guys!

Chris: No, your absolutely right, the more you know, the more their is to learn. Your advice is sound, especially about the grey backround being more forgiving. I didn't even think about renting equipment, that really takes a load off.

Also, thanks for the links!

More advice would also be helpful also, please. These threads tend to die out once a few people give there input.

I think i'm going to sit here and just wait for responses with my fingers crossed.

-Clos

[robertwgross]

In the five-person group shot, you had no reflections visible in the eyeglass lenses. Excellent.

Did that happen by accident, by intent, or by careful Photoshop editing?

---Bob Gross---

[scotgasch]

Eyeglass glare is usually a result of using a large more direct light source like an umbrella....with bounce flash there is less of a possibility of glass glare...at least IMHO

[TeraGram93013]

I have nothing of value to add to this thread,

... I just want to know who the scrumptious bearded guy on the right is. :wink:

[clos]

Bob: scotgasch called it. I bounced the speedlight off the ceiling to minimize the chance of glare, and a little pointed backward just enough to get a catch light and it happened to work. No photoshop editing as far as glare goes.

Tera the bearded guy is my lover so hands off...no no no, neither of us are gay "although there is nothing wrong with that" LOL. This picture was an impromtu (sp?) 60 second photo shoot. This was the best out of three and Mom ordered an 8x14 print!

Thanks!

Now! Anybody out there going to help me out of this jam I'm in...please...pretty please. I'm on my knees :shock: ...okay enough with the gay jokes please. :wink:

Sorry, I welcome any other helpful words of wisdom.

-Clos

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tera,.

Why it is none other than Television Personality Jonathan Frakes, Star of "Star Trek the Next Generation" and "Alien Autopsy" :lol: 8) :wink:

Clos,..
I'm worried about your suggestion to palce the off camera salve between the camera and the subjects,. low pointing up...

Up light is the famous "Monster Light" and can really be a no no.. (that's why they don't use footlights anymore either..)

It can work, but I'm not sure it's a good idea for a lot of things.

[ChrisNardone]

http://www.stnphotography.com/tips.html

This is kind of tedious, but might help.

[ChrisNardone]

Tera,.

Why it is none other than Television Personality Jonathan Frakes, Star of "Star Trek the Next Generation" and "Alien Autopsy" :lol: 8) :wink:

Clos,..
I'm worried about your suggestion to palce the off camera salve between the camera and the subjects,. low pointing up...

Up light is the famous "Monster Light" and can really be a no no.. (that's why they don't use footlights anymore either..)

It can work, but I'm not sure it's a good idea for a lot of things.

O.K. I wasn't going to say it, but CDS started it. He looks like the guy on the "Just for Men" hair/beard color box.

[clos]

Keep 'em coming!

CyberDybe: Yeah, I was too but have been playing around with it. Apparently it has been used for glamour shots...they place a soft box directly under and infront of the model at an angle and balance it out with another key light up high and in front. Supposed to flatten the subject and minimize shadows and thus slight imperfections in the skin. They called it a clamshell setup. If I find the link I'll post it. I would imagine it would need to be really soft light though.

Anybody out there use a 420EX with an umbrella? Or better ideas to use my speedlights.

-Clos

[scotgasch]

Keep 'em coming!

CyberDybe: Yeah, I was too but have been playing around with it. Apparently it has been used for glamour shots...they place a soft box directly under and infront of the model at an angle and balance it out with another key light up high and in front. Supposed to flatten the subject and minimize shadows and thus slight imperfections in the skin. They called it a clamshell setup. If I find the link I'll post it. I would imagine it would need to be really soft light though.

Anybody out there use a 420EX with an umbrella? Or better ideas to use my speedlights.

-Clos

You're right.....the clamshell lighting has been around for quite awhile but only recently has been making a comback...

Fashion photogs use it regularly and I have seen it at various seminars.
But you have to do it right for it to work properly. I will attempt to find my notes on the subject and maybe post some of them.

[ChrisNardone]

Keep 'em coming!

CyberDybe: Yeah, I was too but have been playing around with it. Apparently it has been used for glamour shots...they place a soft box directly under and infront of the model at an angle and balance it out with another key light up high and in front. Supposed to flatten the subject and minimize shadows and thus slight imperfections in the skin. They called it a clamshell setup. If I find the link I'll post it. I would imagine it would need to be really soft light though.

Anybody out there use a 420EX with an umbrella? Or better ideas to use my speedlights.

-Clos

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000lrQ

I hope I'm not driving you crazy with links I found this thread useful in regards to using 420EX with umbrella

[robertwgross]

Anybody out there use a 420EX with an umbrella? Or better ideas to use my speedlights.


Actually, Speedlights are flash units made by Nikon. Speedlites are flash units made by Canon.

---Bob Gross---

[clos]

Chris: Nope, your links have answered my question and am a bit embarrased i didn't find it myself. You da man!

Bob: I am further embarrased by my incorrect use of the word speedlite, I plead guilty and throw myself upon the mercy of this board.

CDS: LOL it sure looks like Jonathan Frakes that cracked me up!

Thanks again guys I knew this board wouldn't let me down.

-Clos

[Bruce Hamilton]

LOL it sure looks like Jonathan Frakes that cracked me up!
As a true Trekker, I find no resemblance between Jonathan Frakes and the bearded gentleman. Getting back to the topic... I'm surprised nobody has thought about projection screens. Relatively portable, highly reflective, built in tripods. Just bounce your flash off it.

[clos]

Hey thanks again for all the feedback. I did indeed rent an umbrella and stand. I also bought a great backdrop (paper for now). Boy what a learning experience. I will do better next time but for now here are a couple from the series....

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_D1AF9B2F-F1D3-AE15-AA8F1455525AEAC4.jpg

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_D1AD7FC2-E58E-F301-549A2A046B7FD7BA.jpg

I'm in desperate need of a backlight but the Speedlites did me well. A lot to learn thanks again.

-Clos

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

The look fine to me, except the facial expression is not up to par with the shots itself, try to coach your model into facial expresion.
She looks a bit uncomfortable.

We are now running a portrait session over several weeks in our photoclub which I attend (newbie in this matter :D) and the first thing we learned is to get the model at ease, and coach the model to look natural.

Hope this helps.

Greetings,
Frank

[clos]

Yep, this was her first time too. We are going to try again next week. There are better ones in the set but I haven't gotten around to processing them yet. The advice here was great and really helped! Chris most especially.

Thanks again, further comments and suggestions welcome.

[ChrisNardone]

Great start. Your model is beautiful and looks like she knows what she's doing. You'll probably both feel more at ease next time. Way to go.
Chris

[ChrisNardone]

Things to try for next time: A hair light would make the portraits better. On your previous group photo it looks like your bounce flash achieved this well. Usually a separate light is used though. Also it appears that the models right eye is larger than her left. She might just open it more, but you want the larger eye to be closer to the camera. You probably have more shots that you can compare. I like the lighting in both of these, but the model looks more feminine in the second one. It's amazing the difference the lighting makes, it looks like she changed her makeup/lipstick. Did she?

[clos]

Thanks again everyone.

Shot again I thought I would share sorry if this is inappropriate for this forum. I shot with Canon 10D 550EX on board with 420EX bouned off an umbrella.

Hair light and backround light would be great but not in the budget yet.

Chris: I tried the opposite angle and it worked great! Thanks for the tip.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Softned this one, maybe too soft

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_F092D687-E357-5049-F7582BC3F2BB0537.jpg

http://ompi.onemodelplace.com/OMP_Images/Photographer/52286/52286_p_F0945CD9-D2B0-F763-974A4241847DA6C8.jpg

-Clos

[J.A.F. Doorhof]

These are MUCH better, wow.
The first one is indeed maybe a BIT too soft, but the poses are much better.

Greetings,
Frank

[rick barclay]

I like her facial expression on the top photo second seesion. Shelooks a lot more at ease, too. Keep up the good work, and soon you'll both look like you should be selling yourselves to the glamour mags.