Canon Printer Settings in Photoshop

[rebop]

Hello folks,

Just bought a Canon printer switching from Epson for a number of reasons. I bought Canon paper as well. I decided to learn how to make the best possible prints I can at home having also bought my first DSLR.

I have read threads on other forums on this problem and still can not get as good a result from PS as I did with my Epson. I have burned through about 50 8x11's trying to solve this.

EZPhotoPrint has the best printed image I have seen yet. Much better than Photoshop. There is no magenta in things like drop shadows, for example on print borders, which I find to be an excellent test for the magenta problem.
I get much better results from PS if I use Printer Color Management.
Now, a few basic questions if I may.

Should one convert an image in PS to CYMK before printing? I get better results doing this. And viewing in PS with the CYMK working proof setup seems best to me on my monitor and most like what I wish to see printed.

I see no difference converting the image from native 72 DPI to 300 DPI. Agree this is not necessary to change?

I have ALWAYS had black point compensation on. Should that be disabled? Would it help with the magenta in grays?

And I have always used Perceptual. Is Relative Colormetric preferred? Why if so?

Now, it seems that the Canon Image Preview can change dramatically based on settings, though sometimes it is very close to what is printed and sometimes not.

My best printing results are from EZPhotoPrint.

Second best are converting to CYMK and Printer Color Management, but grays have magenta fringe.

RGB with same settings as CYMK has the whole image more magenta.
Using profiles for print and proof in PS are always not as good as printer color management.

So, trying some suggestions from above I find:

Using PRO for paper settings even though I print to PLUS - no good. Still magenta.

No preview - Believe it or not, this helps the magenta problem a bit. Not as good as EZPhotoPrint.

Absolute Colormetric as opposed to Perceptual - Horrible.

CYMK as opposed to RGB - better in grays, but image still a touch magenta.
So best results so far are EZPrint, then CYMK, Printer Management, Auto, High, and Photo Optimizer Pro effect checked! This reduces magenta a bit and is closer to EZPrint. And last, works better with Black Point Compensation off. I can live with this, but wish it matched EZPrint. I almost need driver settings for not only each media, but each possible program I print from. Life is too short :^)

UPDATE:
Just tried my favorite settings after closing PS and tring again and the results are different that the first print with identical settings. Shifted a little magenta again. So even trying to match a previous setting's result is dicey.

AND, I much prefer the results on Canon Photo Glossy Plus rather than PRO. The pro is not as white and shifts a bit yellow. Plus is cleaner looking, but not as heavy-weight.

Will try a few more things today, but this is frustrating. SO MANY interactive choices in PS and Canon driver. Any suggestions appreciated.

[Hermeto]

This is how I set it up but I must admit that I am still not perfectly happy with the results.
Luckily, I print mostly 4x6 for friends and family.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/techcorner/June_2005.html

[rebop]

Thanks.

I tried those settings and not as good as Printer Color Management. More magenta.

Just tried Epson paper to see how that affected things and the Canon paper is better. But once again, I get better results on the same image from EZPhotoPrint than I do from PS. I would not expect that. And I would expect with all the experimenting I have done to find a PS setting that is very close to EZPP.

I'll look forward to more suggestions.

~Bob

[stlscape]

I was researching this a couple of days ago, and one poster said that he got the best results using Kodak paper with his Canon 9900(?). I'd provide a URL, but have no idea where I read it.

[Mac Mahon]

I find EZPP best too. (Canon paper, iP8500)
I always save from RAW processor to 100% JPEG and print using EZPP. Nothing else I've tried comes close.
FWIW I think the challenge in PS is being sure you're doing the processing only once - not getting the s/w to pre-do what the printer driver is going to do.
If you are using PS then from what I've read Perceptual and BP compensation on, is the right way to go.

[rebop]

Thanks.

I have read all the threads on double processing as well and have been very careful not to. Most advice also says to use RGB, then the ICC profiles in PS rather than Printer Color Management. But my experience is different. And nothing matches EZPP.

Good to know someone else has the same result, though there must be a better way to manage PS and Canon.

[g-money]

I have the same magenta problem with my canon. I read a older thread a week ago where in the printer setting he moved the magenta down to -12. I tried this and really seems to help with skin tones which is where I was noticing it most.

Hope you can come up with something as I love my Canon printer but am just missing printing out what I see on calibrated monitor.

Greg

[rebop]

Greg,

Is your problem only in Photoshop or all programs you print from? Have you tried EZPhotoPrint?

I'm curious to know as my problem is either only in PS or just worse in PS. Since I know others have the problem, isolating where it crops up can be helpful.

~Bob

[Reefbone]

I noticed that if you set PS to manage color but still use the Canon print preview then the color comes out horrible - very red. I think this applies two print profiles. Use the print preview is PS and not the one (checkbox) in the Canon driver.

Still though I've found that with the i9900 and the Pro paper it's best to let the printer manage color. I've considered ordering custom print profiles based on printed targets.

Of course you have to have a calibrated monitor to start with.

[amonline]

There are several problems with your process...

Never use "perceptual". Relative colorimetric maps the white point to the final medium. It bases your color from the corrected medium white point. It's best for inkjet printing. Always leave your black point locked. It insures that your shadows will remain accurate in color and not muddy up.

Also, you are not offset printing, so converting to CMYK is useless. You may be getting lucky with a closer result, but you are adjusting, not achieving it in the correct way.

Lastly, you are not proofing the image correctly which is the main problem... It all boils down to setting everything up correctly. Here are the general rules of getting WYSIWYG...


Use a good monitor.
Use a good monitor calibration system.
Shoot in sRGB.
Edit in sRGB.
Soft proof with the correct printer profile.
Choose the correct medium soft proofing.
Turn off printer color profiling.
Let PS manage color.


However, I will say that DPP is extremely accurate when softproofing the printer profile and letting an Epson manage color. It's only PS that must take the reigns when you use it.

One reason Epson is the best on the market is because of the quality of their conversion process and the ability to accurately view WYSIWYG by choosing the correct soft proofing with media choice.

Personally, I don't feel anyone has caught up with Epson's accuracy just yet... but everyone's getting close now days. Sadly, inkjets will soon be a thing of the past in in-house photography.

I speak from experience... I own three different Epsons, including a large format 7800 and everything I print is dead accurate. It just takes knowing the rules.

[rebop]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You said so much, I ned to comment on a few "quotes".

"There are several problems with your process...

Never use "perceptual". Relative colorimetric maps the white point to the final medium. It bases your color from the corrected medium white point. It's best for inkjet printing. Always leave your black point locked. It insures that your shadows will remain accurate in color and not muddy up."

Ok, I changed to Relative Colormetric. I am not sure it improved.

"Also, you are not offset printing, so converting to CMYK is useless. You may be getting lucky with a closer result, but you are adjusting, not achieving it in the correct way."

Agreed. It is odd it gets a better result, but not right, I agree. There was a moment I thought my printer had CYMK cartriges, so maybe that was what was wrong, but that idea is gone.

"Lastly, you are not proofing the image correctly which is the main problem... It all boils down to setting everything up correctly. Here are the general rules of getting WYSIWYG..."

"Use a good monitor."
I have a good monitor.

"Use a good monitor calibration system."
I have not yet done this, but more on this below.

"Shoot in sRGB.
Edit in sRGB."
Everything I have read says no, use Adobe RGB. Why do you recommend differently??

"Soft proof with the correct printer profile.
Choose the correct medium soft proofing.
Turn off printer color profiling.
Let PS manage color."
All done.

Results, not great. Muddy shadows, oversaturated, too magenta. Not horrible , mind you, but not the best print I can make, if I break the rules.

Now, please read carefully. In my first post I had a lot of things I had tried or was trying. These are not how I do things at this moment. But following the best advice on PS with color spaces, soft proofing, and PS color management - I see an acceptable image on screen. The Canon Printer preview looks both different and better. The print does not equal either.

BUT, and a big but...when I print from Canon EasyPhotoPrint, I print exactly as I see it on screen and MUCH better than any settings in PS.

How can this be?

This is extremley frustrating. If I could print from Ps as I do from EZPP, I would be ecstatic. I know my system can produce a print I find appealing. But not with PS. There must be something I have not yet tried, but I have no idea what it might be.

~Bob

[amonline]

At this time, I would contribute most of the problem with PS printing to not having a calibrated monitor profile to work from. I think you are getting lucky in EZPP at the moment, but remember that EZPP printing with Canon software and it's conversion is going to work much better - just like printing from DPP with Epson software and it's conversion. The issue for you is Photoshop color managing. It is very picky when it comes to calibration. You will not get accurate proofing until you have a calibrated system.

While you do have CMYK ink cartridges in your printer, they do not lay ink exactly like an offset printer does. Injet printers (all brands) work better in sRGB with correct softproofing and color management by the printer in all apps except PS, better to use printer color managing in these programs. (why you're getting better results from the EZPP)

I should have been more clear on the sRGB stuff. You should work in sRGB if you are using a third party printer for client online proofing and ordering. However, you are right about using AdobeRGB in PS for accuracy, but I think you are probably going about it slightly off. Try this...

Reset your monitor to defaults before working on a subject image. Make sure your soft proofing in PS is setup correctly. When you are ready to print, choose "Print w/ Preview". In the drop down menu, choose "Color Management". Choose "AdobeRGB" and "Let PS Determine Colors". Select the correct printer profile and render intent. Then in your printer's settings choose the correct paper and quality. Most importantly, turn OFF the color management!

This is the exact workflow I use for fine art reproduction and it is 100% accurate to my calibrated screen. I think this will yield better results for you as well... but remember, it will still not be exact until you get that system calibrated.

[rebop]

Ever get so frustrated your eyes start to glaze? That's where I am at. I appreciate the advice. Truly, but I think the problem lies elsewhere.

I decided to go a different route for a change instead of printing the same picture over and over on photo paper. So I took my logo - a simple graphic with a drop shadow I printed on my old Epson thousands of times on plain, inkjet, Epson Phot Quality Inkjet, Avery Inkjet Cards, etc, etc. I can not get a gray drop shadow. Always has purple in it. And I can not get the colors of the logo right. For example, printed Avery Cards and compared with the Avery Cards from the Epson and no match. I have to turn up intensity about 20, black about 20 and magenta down 15 juts to get close. And it is not close.

I have tried ICC, Auto, None. Notmuch difference. So it is not just Photoshop, but something else. Monitor calibration would not help in comparing the same file printed to the same card stock on two different printers and getting purple drop shadows.

I'm fried. Got to stop for tonight. Maybe tomorrow night will have a lightbulb go off and figure out why this is happening.

BTW, I have an older Photoshop, so I can not find a "Let Photoshop Determine the Colors" anywhere. And my Print with Preview is Print Options. So if there is another "preview" in PS other than the onscreen soft proof, I can not find that either.

Time to sleep. Maybe take back this printer for another.

[René Damkot]

About Canon printers: read this (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29530). Might be of some help.

[Az2Africa]

I get great results from CS2 and the i9900. I calibrate my monitor regularly and have a ColorVision profile for my printer. I have to head to work, but will post all my settings this evening. PM me and maybe I can send you the custom i 9900 profile.(don't know if it will vary too much from mine to yours)
PS- I only use Abobe RGB.

[amonline]

I get great results from CS2 and the i9900. I calibrate my monitor regularly and have a ColorVision profile for my printer. I have to head to work, but will post all my settings this evening. PM me and maybe I can send you the custom i 9900 profile.(don't know if it will vary too much from mine to yours)
PS- I only use Abobe RGB.
That's a good idea that might work. I hadn't thought about someone providing him a printed tweak profile that fixes the adjustments for him. It might just coax him into getting the Spyder. :D :lol:

[rebop]

Well, I'm off to work as well, but let's just take this sliver of the problem for a moment.

Forget Photoshop. If I solve this, I can solve that.

From WORD, business cards with my logo. Comparing a print fromthe Epson to what I see on screen is identical, or as identical as I could ever want. So monitor calibration is not the problem. Nor should it be in WORD.

I print to 3 or 4 different kinds of paper on the Canon and all have bad color. Especially, all, no matter what driver settings for paper, color management, etc, have grey drop shadows that turn magenta (or light purple).

So this is not a color space problem. It has to be a driver problem.

I'm almost ready to sell this, spare ink, paper, etc on Craig's List and go buy a new Epson. I will call Canon today, but I doubt their customer service will be of much help. I'd like to be surprised.

~Bob

[Budley007]

Hi rebop, sorry to hear about your problems my friend. I have no technical or specific advice that I can give you that would resolve your problem, but I can tell you how I do my printing with the i9900 with excellent results.

First of all, I've been using Ilford Classic Pearl paper for all my portrait prints. I use Smooth Pearl for everything else glossy. I've been using these paper and the downloadable profiles from their website for over 2 years now with excellent results. I've also heard that Red River makes a fine paper/profile combination that works well with this printer but I've never tried it, so can't comment further.

I run all my printing through Qimage for resizing and batch jobs and this software seems to marry well with my needs and the i9900. As to whether Qimage contributes at all to my success, I simply don't know. It works for me everytime, so I just keep using it.

I can't say that you'll prefer the results with this set up, but I can tell you that all my clients find my prints more than acceptible for framing and are completely satisfied with everything large and small. They really do love em.

I sincerely hope you find a solution and soon. The prints from a Canon I9900 when done successfully are a wonderful thing. Best wishes.

[René Damkot]

I read that... it makes no sense that you would color manage something twice, huh? It's identical to my instructions, except the second IEM management.

I think I see the problem though. I bet the OP has PS in the AdobeRGB working space as well. (along with Canon's recommendation of using ICM again) It should be in sRGB so that it accepts info from the camera/DPP better. (I should have mentioned that) You do use AdobeRGB in the conversion, but PS should still be in sRGB workspace to receive the data from DPP correctly without a PS conversion.

Still, I don't get the second color managing that seems to be working for Canon. I'm guessing that the printer handles the Canon ICC better given the image comes from a Canon camera, therefore they are recommending that the printer handle the color management, not PS... very weird.

FWIW, I use the Russell Brown method, which is industry standard when it comes to printing workflow. Canon's method is the first I've seen that explicitly manages color twice.


Hmmm, Not sure I understand what you mean:

From the article:

"#1: When NOT using dedicated, printer/media specific profiles:
1. Source space: Adobe RGB (or sRGB)
2. Print space: Printer Color Management
3. Print Driver: Select correct media, choose desired print quality, check manual color adjustment, select "Set...", and check "Enable ICM".

#2: When using a dedicated media-specific profile:
1. Source space: Adobe RGB (or sRGB)
2. Print space: Select the media-specific ICC profile*
3. Printer Driver: Select correct media, check manual color adjustment, select "Set...", and select "None" for "Print Type". Do not enable ICM.
"

So Either #1 or #2. In #2 (recommended by Canon), it states 'Do NOT enable ICM'
Biggest problem here is finding a correct media-specific ICC profile. Epson profiles in abundance, only canon's I can find are for the iPF5000 or i9000.

I'm not sure where you see the 'double' color management??

Also, I don't use sRGB ususally, so I will do a test, but as far as I can imagine, document space should not make any difference (exept for the diference in gamut between sRGB and Adobe RGB)

[amonline]

You're right Rene... I misread part of that article. My original post was on par with their second workflow. It's kind of why I'm baffled that he's having problems. I guess it will boil down to the profile associated with that pdf article. Thanks for sharing it.

[René Damkot]

Ilford has some downloadable profiles (http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/prod_html/galerie/ijprofiles/default.asp?RIP=MAC&Printer2=) for Canon printers as well...
If anyone finds some more: please post...

[g-money]

Greg,

Is your problem only in Photoshop or all programs you print from? Have you tried EZPhotoPrint?

I'm curious to know as my problem is either only in PS or just worse in PS. Since I know others have the problem, isolating where it crops up can be helpful.

~Bob

Seems to be with all programs mainly with skin tones. I used to use EZPrint all the time but have recently been trying to use PS for more of printing instead of having to open up another program.

Greg

[rebop]

Ok, time to reply.

I have to admit I was skeptical, but bought a Spyder2 Pro. Note: the printer matching program that comes with it is worthless. So the only advantage of spending twice the money is the choice of gammas. If I had to do it again, I'd buy the Express.

BUT....amazing difference. I now print what I see on screen and the problems were my images!! Even my logo had to be redone. And more amazing, my custom choice of windows desktop color settings were horrible. I had to redo my color scheme just to watch my monitor.

Now, the only question remaining is what is happening viewing web sites. Even this one looks so different than I expected colorwise. Colors I used to thionk were in the gray family are now a light moca - a little more red in them. Many websites I am on daily look very different.

BUT.. I print as I see. ANd I now have default settings for all Canon and plain papers that work both in Photoshop and other apps. And I get a better image in PS than EzPhotoPrint - just slightly.

So, after over 100 test prints on photo paper and maybe 60 on plain and inkjet, and a set of cartridges - my advice is get a Spyder first before you pull your hair out :^)

~Bob

[amonline]

I'm glad the calibration fixed it... I figured that was the problem many posts ago. Congrats!

[Az2Africa]

Cograts! Let me know if you want me to send you a custom profile for Canon Photo Paper Pro for the i9900.
Cheers,
Terry

[rebop]

Thanks, Terry. But I am actually using an MP530. Not quite as nice as the 19900, but suits all my needs now that I can get decent results printing accurately.

~Bob

[danfennick]

to amonline, thank you for trying to help out. i'm having similar problems with CS2 and EZPP as well. when you say pick the correct printer profile, how do you know which one that is? I know my colors are correct on the monitor because i use the info pallette in photoshop to check them.

[amonline]

In PS choose "print w/ preview" where you can choose to let PS control color and in your printer properties, turn off color management and... (set PS color management to "document") then choose the profile supplied by your printer's manufacturer for the media you are printing to. Rendering should always be "relative" and remember to soft proof in PS under the same profile you choose here. If you do not understand the profile names, look for documentation from the manufacturer.

[danfennick]

amon, do you mean turn off all color management in the p rinter but leave it on in ps? i think you had a typo. how do i tell which profile is right for my media? just choose paper type in the printer driver box?

[danfennick]

I hate to be dumb, but i can't find a place in the 9900 properties to set it to document.

[amonline]

Yes, turn it off in the printer's preferences and let PS handle the color information. (just like LR tells you if you've ever used it to print anything) You have to use the "print w/ preview" command to see the "document" dialog.

There's an excellent tutorial on this at Russell Brown's page (http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html). See the video on "Adobe Photoshop Printing (http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS2PhotoshopPrintSM.mov)".

[danfennick]

Yes, turn it off in the printer's preferences and let PS handle the color information. (just like LR tells you if you've ever used it to print anything) You have to use the "print w/ preview" command to see the "document" dialog.

There's an excellent tutorial on this at Russell Brown's page (http://www.russellbrown.com/tips_tech.html). See the video on "Adobe Photoshop Printing (http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS2PhotoshopPrintSM.mov)".
wow, that russell brown page is great. I didnt know about his tutorials. Of course, he didn't go over settings for the i9900, but that's the way this has been going. the i9900 has no "off" switch for color management. I've set it to manual and zeroed all the adjustments. I hope that's how you do it.

[amonline]

That's kind of strange... you are going into the printer properties like he shows, right? I guess it could be true - I don't know, I use Epson printers.

edit: I found this page that says it can be turned off... hope it helps!
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRINT/CI9/I9900.HTM

[danfennick]

That's kind of strange... you are going into the printer properties like he shows, right? I guess it could be true - I don't know, I use Epson printers.

edit: I found this page that says it can be turned off... hope it helps!
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRINT/CI9/I9900.HTM
there is no "off" switch in the windows version.

[amonline]

I think this document tells how...
http://www.photokaechler.com/files/Canon_Profile_Guide.pdf

You would turning "enable" off...

...and this was a good link too...
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00AaxP&tag=

[danfennick]

amon, thank you for your help. here is the procedure I have now figured out for printing
with canon i9900 in cs2. It's astonishing how hard canon makes it to turn off color management, and how there is no documentation on it.

1. in CS2, File|print with preview
2. In the printer profile drop down box, the canon currently has
a. Mp: matte paper
b. Pr1 glossy
c. Pr2 glossy
d. Sp1: canon’s photo paper plus glossy
e. 4 different luster settings
f. I don’t what the 4 luster settings are for. Pick one of the other 4 depending on your paper.
g. You can check the colors with a soft proof under view|proof setup|custom
3. Other settings on that screen
a. Color handling: let ps determine colors
b. Printer box set to document
c. Rendering intent: relative colorimetric
d. Black point compensation is on
4. Click the print button to go to the canon driver
5. On the driver screen select canon 9900 from your printers.
6. Click on the properties button. This takes you to the properties dialog box
a. Make your choices of paper type and print quality
b. Check the preview before printing button if you want
c. Under color adjustment, choose manual. Then click on set.
7. On the manual color adjustment screen,
a. make sure the cmyk settings are at 0. On the print type drop down menu, choose “none”
b. Make sure the enable ICM box is not checked.
c. Click on ok, this takes you back to the properties dialog. Click ok
d. This takes you back to the Print dialog, click on okay and you will start printing.