Competing In The Digital World To Stay in Photography Biz

[nitekatt2006]

I have been researching many sites and forums to get ideas on how working pro photographers will continue to stay and do business in the new year. It will interesting to monitor the trends in 2007-08

Since digital imagery, computers, DSLR's, fine quality ink jet printers, Photoshop and various other little toys are available to everyone, many unexperienced amatuers seem to think they can compete with pro work. There is so much lowballing out there and "free" photography services, I'm sure this will continue to put a thorn in the side of working pros, with and without studios.

Since ole uncle Joe has a 6 figure career going on anyway, can afford to buy the best digi cams, lenses, lighting, he may be asked by sister Sue to shoot her wedding and reception. The only experience uncle Joe has is shooting the annual family reunion and a few HS football games, only because he has "the gear." Just because he got sister Sue's white dress a color casted red or blue, totally shot the bride and groom kissing out of focus, missed the cake cutting shot, because he was gabbing to sister Rose and continually missed the standard wedding shots a pro wedding shooter does second nature, uncle Joe still landed the gig and put another pro out of business. Of course Sister Sue and her wedding party are sad and a bit mad at uncle Joe for botching up the wedding shots because it was free, come on. In the film days, this just didn't happen very often.

Events. Attendees with cell phone cameras and P&S I understand are also responsible for putting a dent in pro event photographers biz. They even sneak around to take pictures off the pro's displays. What nerve!

There are always going to be the big time photograpers who do high end fashion/catalog work, product and jewelry, sports, etc. But what about what's left over for the majority of shooters trying to compete and scratch out a living?

I would like to put this subject to all of us and to anyone who has ideas and strategies for keeping a photography biz, full or part-time going full steam ahead in the coming 2007:cool: . Thanks katt

[shocksyde]

What, you never heard of competition? The invisible hand strikes again!

[nitekatt2006]

I understand about competition. That's why I get trade mags, read a lot and talk to other pros asking the same questions. We all know that an experienced pro is going to deliver a more consistant result than the am, but most of the public doesn't see it that way in this day and age. All they want is the best bang for the buck because they can do it themselves, or so they think and somehow we as professionals have to convince them to pay the price and reap the rewards more so than ever. katt

[tcphoto1]

Quality will always be recognized. Some Clients want it for less than what you're pricing it at, you'll have to learn to walk away from those people. Keep working at your craft and they will find you and pay you what you're worth. Yes, it is difficult and you'll have to do more with less. But, you've got to believe that quality will win out over cheap.

[th3r0m]

Since digital imagery, computers, DSLR's, fine quality ink jet printers, Photoshop and various other little toys are available to everyone, many unexperienced amatuers seem to think they can compete with pro work. There is so much lowballing out there and "free" photography services, I'm sure this will continue to put a thorn in the side of working pros, with and without studios.

Its true that all of these things are much more affordable at the consumer level now and it may be a "thorn in the side of working pros" but as a previous poster wrote its just competition, maybe a different kind of competition as it is not pro vs. pro, but basically the same. And the pro has to respond in essentially the same way, they have to differentiate themselves from the others (and since we know that lowering the price is out, pro's need to eat too.) by the services and quality they provide. Sitting around grousing about how the amateur is ruining their business only proves them right, while they sit around the amateur is out their selling themselves.

Since ole uncle Joe has a 6 figure career going on anyway, can afford to buy the best digi cams, lenses, lighting, he may be asked by sister Sue to shoot her wedding and reception. The only experience uncle Joe has is shooting the annual family reunion and a few HS football games, only because he has "the gear." Just because he got sister Sue's white dress a color casted red or blue, totally shot the bride and groom kissing out of focus, missed the cake cutting shot, because he was gabbing to sister Rose and continually missed the standard wedding shots a pro wedding shooter does second nature, uncle Joe still landed the gig and put another pro out of business. Of course Sister Sue and her wedding party are sad and a bit mad at uncle Joe for botching up the wedding shots because it was free, come on. In the film days, this just didn't happen very often.

Well besides the fact that color cast can be corrected, how do any of these things you mentioned in any way hurt a pro? As this continues to happen, people will begin to turn to pros to make sure it doesnt happen again. If the pros are reading and waiting, and market and sell themselves correctly they should not have any problems picking up business. As a side note, regarding the color cast and blurry pics, maybe as a pro if your shooting business is slow, since you have already logged all those photoshop hours you can/could offer retouching services to the unhappy brides and grooms. Since uncle joe undoubtedly provided them with original digital images, this should not be too hard (make sure of course that they own the copyright on the images, have them have uncle joe sign something and/or hope uncle joe doesnt frequent this section :) ) While you cannot replace the shots that the uncle joe's of the world miss, you can probably do some great work on the ones he shot but goofed up. Doing so will make for a happy bride and groom, which could very likely end up in referral business, not just for retouching, but for actually shooting.

Events. Attendees with cell phone cameras and P&S I understand are also responsible for putting a dent in pro event photographers biz. They even sneak around to take pictures off the pro's displays. What nerve!

What!!! A pic of the pro's displays! No offense, and disregarding copyright issues for images in the display, how is this much different than ripping pages out of a magazine of images that you like and want to recreate? Who is going to buy a pic of a pro's display? And since when do cell phone camera's look even anything like good quality. Understandably there may be a few people with very, very expensive phones out there, but most cell phones still only come with a 1-2 megapixel camera which while better than nothing is not likely to produce great or even good results.

There are always going to be the big time photograpers who do high end fashion/catalog work, product and jewelry, sports, etc. But what about what's left over for the majority of shooters trying to compete and scratch out a living?

And do you know why these pro's are able to do that? Sure a few had lucky breaks and all are extremely talented (subjectively of course), but mostly they know how to market and sell themselves to clients and you will find that if you ask them, most of them started where we were, networked, networked, networked, marketed, marketed, marketed and now they sell, sell, sell for huge amounts of money. All starts with who you know and how you market yourself.

I would like to put this subject to all of us and to anyone who has ideas and strategies for keeping a photography biz, full or part-time going full steam ahead in the coming 2007:cool: . Thanks katt

I would say to follow the advice of someone like David Jay, who while not forgetting about the photography part of the photography business, focuses on on marketing and networking himself and growing his business (and creating lucrative passive income streams on the side). It's wonderful if you take the best photos in the world, but no one is going to know that unless you get out there and start creating relationships with people, be it other pro's, consumers, other leaders in business, etc, etc.

Like those public service announcements on NBC, "the more you know, the more you grow," only in this case we aren't talking knowledge, we are talking people (although knowledge is handy :) ) Think about it, why are the uncle joes shooting these weddings and you are sitting home typing on this forum. Yes a little bit may be about the money, but mostly they already have established a relationship with uncle joe. These people do not know you or your work, so in order to get them too, you need to be out introducing yourself and forming relationships with them.

As I said above, quit sitting around talking about how the amateur is hurting business, because if you do, your business will suffer, but it is not and never will be their fault (assuming fair competition). The fault will fall on you because the time spent you spent grousing could be better used forming relationships with people, which is what the amateurs are doing right now. So get out there and start forming relationships.

My .02 cents.

[nitekatt2006]

Perhaps my post was attributed or discerned to my personal situation, but that isn't the case. I am in a smaller club as an experienced jewelry photographer with a growing client base. After clients try to do their own jewelry photography and don't have success, that is when they call me in to do the job because of the results I can produce. I am always working though to learn new techniques to keep an edge

Someone had the concern why I spent the time posting my topic and all I can say to that is, why does anyone here take time to post ideas and get feedback? I thought this forum was about bouncing ideas off each other rather than someone feeling it is a waste of time to write about a topic. I am not a wedding nor a full-time event photographer, so I don't keep up with that area.

There were some valid points brought up and I agree with some of them. It's important to keep in mind however that things are changing in the biz and more creativity is needed to sell potential clients why a pro photographer can charge a fair rate when so many people are doing things themselves, more so as the technology is available to all.

I also realize that business savvy is the key to success. I am only asking what other pros are doing to keep an edge in the biz katt

[Skrim17]

I hear what you are saying katt, just today I passed by a local shop with a sign that he's going out of business. This is the ONLY guy in town that does what he does, studio, community and private work. Every town event he is the hired hand taking shots that you buy at his establishment the following day. He is not moving, not going private without the studio overhead, he is OUT OF BUSINESS.

[nitekatt2006]

Hi Skirm, That is sad to hear. of course we don't know the specifics or reasons the fellow is going under. A fellow comrad bit the dust. Was he in a saturated area, too many amatuers taking the job, burned out? I guess it could be many things.

It would perhaps be educational if you could find out why he is going out. I am curious if he feels ok about revealing it. Was he a film shooter or digital or both?

I have seen that usually the studios that put down digital photography are usually the ones who won't get into the technology at hand and have their resources invested in film gear only. Some of those studios didn't get it together and went under because they wouldn't get what clients wanted them to do.That's not to say there is no room for 4x5s, sheet film etc. It's still there, just not as common as say 5 years ago.

katt

[Skrim17]

He shoots both, I don't know him all that well but I am interested in the story as well. I'll see what I can discover.

[gjl711]

What you lament about has happened to practically every industry ever invented. If it hasn't happened yet, it will at some time. How many here design their own web sites? Does it bother you that some software engineer has lost work? How many fill up their own cars? What about all of the service station attendants now sitting around with their buddy's complaining about all of the amateurs that fill their cars and don't even check the oil. Heck, I still remember the corner TV repair shop where you would bring in your tubes and the professional would check them for you.
There is nothing magical about taking pictures. Anyone is capable of doing so. It takes some skill, but much less so today than it did 20, or 50, or 100 years ago. As cameras become more automated and sophisticated and the quality continues to improve year by year the market for the professional will shrink. It is inevitable.

[nitekatt2006]

Well that's true about various industries shrinking, more people available for jobs than are openings, but this is a photography forum, not a website or service station meeting. I'm not concerned about those professions, they can post their own concerns on their boards. I'm mainly concerned about trying to survive like everyone else in this profession. Just because John decides to jump off the bridge doesn't mean I shall follow him. We could go on and on why Detroit is loosing a huge share to the auto industry because the jobs are going to other countries.

Photography doesn't require training or degrees to be accepted as a working professional. What matters is producing work a client is willing to pay for. It's true that all this high end gear does a lot of the thinking and automation to take decent shots for most anyone, but the camera is just a tool.

Maybe photographers of the future will have to specialize in much more unique areas where the uninitiated cannot enter. Membership will become harder to join and participate in.

We see the marketplace shrinking as it's inevitable and the reality of it is something to think about. Photographers will come and go like they always have, but possibly more so in the coming times. Will there even be a market in the future for the "underdog", the one who is not at the 6 figure studio level, but those just trying to make enough to live a decent life. The debate goes on for possible solutions katt

[th3r0m]

Perhaps my post was attributed or discerned to my personal situation, but that isn't the case. I am in a smaller club as an experienced jewelry photographer with a growing client base. After clients try to do their own jewelry photography and don't have success, that is when they call me in to do the job because of the results I can produce. I am always working though to learn new techniques to keep an edge

Someone had the concern why I spent the time posting my topic and all I can say to that is, why does anyone here take time to post ideas and get feedback? I thought this forum was about bouncing ideas off each other rather than someone feeling it is a waste of time to write about a topic. I am not a wedding nor a full-time event photographer, so I don't keep up with that area.

There were some valid points brought up and I agree with some of them. It's important to keep in mind however that things are changing in the biz and more creativity is needed to sell potential clients why a pro photographer can charge a fair rate when so many people are doing things themselves, more so as the technology is available to all.

I also realize that business savvy is the key to success. I am only asking what other pros are doing to keep an edge in the biz katt

Firstly, if you were referring to my post, I hope that you did not think that I was targeting you or anyone else or trying to attack, my comments were meant to be general. In regards to questioning why people post, that was never my intention as I love to see and read all of the posts and ideas that people put up, I was more directing my thoughts to the mindset of sitting and griping about life not being fair, but failing to do anything about it. I only used wedding photography because that was the example provided in the OP. As to the "you"s mentioned, again not targeting any one person, more of the general mindset mentioned above.

IMHO, I really think that building relationships is the key to any business, thats what keeps the customers spreading the word about you and coming back, and that is what I will be working on as I grow my business this year (still home based, so I guess I would be classified as yet as an amateur). Not that having/offering a highly differentiated and creative body of work/services is not great, but in an era where we are assaulted on a daily basis by thousands if not tens of thousands of types of advertising, that personal relationship is key.

I think that it is great that you are asking and I apologize if jumped the gun a bit, but many of these types of posts tend to degenerate into an us vs. them debate with no forward progress, which of course they are not required to have, but it would be nice to see more often. I would really like to see the exchange of positive innovations and ideas that people are coming up with to not only stay in business but to succeed.

[nitekatt2006]

Yes, my intention is to figure out ways to keep a standard of ethics in the biz. When photographers start going under due to things I mentioned earlier, in a way, we all have to be aware and educate clients that it is better to hire experienced photographers who can deliver a good product and service.

It's funny, but people will go out and buy all the state of the art photo gear and then advertise 600 headshots taken for free. I know because I see it on various online sites. And I also have seen posts by studio photographers who advise them to keep a standard and not offer services for free. A mechanic will go out and buy $2000 min in tools but I can guarantee that he or she will not fix your car for free.

I just want to see the biz grow and succeed in the coming years, regardless of how sophisticated and automated the equipment develops. katt

[gjl711]

Yes, my intention is to figure out ways to keep a standard of ethics in the biz. When photographers start going under due to things I mentioned earlier, in a way, we all have to be aware and educate clients that it is better to hire experienced photographers who can deliver a good product and service.
But why is it better? What are you offering your clients that is of value? Why is an experienced photographer more valuable than one with less experience? I’m not trying to be argumentative but I believe here in lies the problem. More and more folks are getting really good and delivering product that is nearly indistinguishable from the work of a professional at a fraction of the cost or at times for nothing at all. It a classic example of supply and demand. As the supply of great photographers goes up and the demand stays the same, costs come down. To survive you have to offer something that is exceedingly difficult for the average consumer to get or greatly increase demand.

I just want to see the biz grow and succeed in the coming years, regardless of how sophisticated and automated the equipment develops. katt
The business is succeeding and growing phenomenally. There are more pictures taken today than ever before. There is more high quality equipment sold as well. There are more people than ever before trying their hand at becoming a professional photographers and trying to sell their wares. So from an industry perspective, it is healthy. Canon, Nikon, and others are going to have a banner year. So you question I believe is more personal. How do I as a photographic professional compete with the hundreds of others with high quality cameras, L lenses, and a desire to produce professional quality work while not charging for their service? No simple answer there other than what I said earlier. Offer something others can’t but really want.

[Vegas Poboy]

Competition is awalys good for the market, within time the quality of your work and your business skills will out do amatuers.
Vegas have close to 1000 photographers within the valley. Some advertise some don't, Some don't even have to because of there history of quality.
The digital world has opened a big door for folks who want to start a homebased business and the Costco's and Sam's club prints has made it easy for them to print. From what I've seen these photographers don't last long. They have to over book and work themselves to survive. Most of them don't even know camera basics.
I have a good friend that knew someone and got into league photography by luck. Day one I had to teach him on how to set up is camera after a year or so I finally convinced him he was not a photographer and needed to go to school and he has learned to respect the knowledge of the pros.

They're many more out in the world today doing the same thing because they thinks it's easy. Studios closing is not a bad sign it just can save you on overhead, portrait work has been taken over by Sears, JC Penny's and Walmart. Find ways to compete around them offer to a higher scale client who understands the quality you offer. Also photographers who have to low bid a project can't keep it up after awhile they will want to make the same amout your making and raise thier prices then the market is back open again.

Educate your clients let them know you know what your doing and help them capture the image they want, that is a big factor in paying a pro for creating and image and person taking a picture.

We all have highs a lows just got to keep things moving in the right direction.

[nitekatt2006]

Speaking of Vegas, I read on the forum here that photographers that need to rent lenses for events can't find local shops that do rentals. It seems a shop could make a small fortune in Vegas just renting camera gear. I know Samy's in LA does a substantial rental business.

I think that it is a fact that amature photographers think it is easy to get into the biz realize that there is a lot more to it than they thought. There have been many valid points here on this thread, so keep em comin', i enjoy reading them and it stimulates ideas katt

[Samdiver74]

Well as far as business goes
I am a professional (Commercial) diver by trade and had spent alot of time and Money perfecting my trade.
I don't do it now because of Scuba Divers ruining the industry fly by nights coming in at upto an 8th of the cost of a team of fully skilled divers. How can anyone compete with that, by lowering prices
It does come down to educating the client about your services, but at the end of the day they will want to save money.
So will use Jo Blow bubbles once, found he did a relatively good job by himself and will continue to use him until something goes wrong because of Jo blows cheap prices he will get recommended to other people, like wise the same between Pro and Amature photographers.
You have to find other avenues and services to provide to your customers that Jo blow cant accomodate with his level of training or afford.
Look at all your local Camera stores? do all of you buy from them or do you order from the internet companies and save money.
I'm personally going to buy from cheaper source, I'm sure most of you do the same thing.
With Electronics and technology advancing as fast as it is, it becomes very difficult to keep up.
You have to do what ever you can to step up your game and provide and advertise a better service.

[nitekatt2006]

Regarding buying photo gear from local shops and online stores, B&H, Adorama, etc., I purchase from both, regardless of cost sometimes. I support my local camera shop because I get great customer service and help when I need it. The costs sometimes even out even though there is sales tax or shipping. Sometimes I need a product that day, so i have to buy locally. Other times the local shop might be out of stock, so i have to buy online.

My whole thing here is for qualified pros to educate clients, keep standards and costs up there and remain competitve. You usually get what ya pay for as they say. katt

[gjl711]

...
It does come down to educating the client about your services, but at the end of the day they will want to save money.
So will use Jo Blow bubbles once, found he did a relatively good job by himself and will continue to use him until something goes wrong because of Jo blows cheap prices he will get recommended to other people, like wise the same between Pro and Amature photographers....

I work for a company that stresses quality. Quality this and quality that. Our customers care about quality. I continue to maintain that most don't know what quality is once the quality of a good or service has reached some threshold and what is important is that the price match the quality expectations for what a customer is willing to pay. This forum is a great example. We all don't really care about quality, if we did we would all be shooting a Hassey. But the quality of the Canon product comes in at a price that we are willing to pay. If someone comes along and changes that, offers a camera at 1/2 the cost and delivers the same level of quality, Canon's a gonner or it has to change.
So I don't think educating your customers will work unless the what's being offered really is a sub par product. In you example, Joe Bubbles got the job done, met the quality expectations of the customer, and was a lot less expensive.

[nicksan]

Personally, I feel that it a bit snobbish to think that the "amateurs" are ruining the "professional" market.

It's free enterprise. Always have been, in any industry.

Not everyone has money growing in their backyards, and "bang for the buck" may just be what is called for. Regular hard working people look for VALUE, a nice balance of quality and quantity. The only problem I see is when the very same people who look for these things turn around and complain that they didn't get top notch service/product. (Kind of like how I laugh when people expect "better service" at Burger King. $6 per meal. What do you expect? But really, that's the value system in this country, at least these days.)

Fundamentals that everyone agrees on aside, the rest is subjective. What makes a Pro a Pro? The amount of money he/she makes because of equipment/advertisement? I believe it is. Pro implies "business" to me. What does it mean to be a "Professional Wedding Photographer"? It implies a photographer who does this for a living, and you'd like to believe that he/she does the job correctly. You pay them to get the job done.

It's like this guy I used to work with. BTW, I am a programmer. There used to be this guy I used to work with who used to program in C and use MS-DOS and all that and refused to move forward with the times. Few years later he got fired. He was in tears. He had 3 kids and a mortgage to pay. I felt for him. But this is the nature of the beast. I continue (and struggle at times) to keep up with the times, be it Java, Web, etc...it's tough...but i do it.

The world changes. The average "Joe" never used to have the PC, Internet, 10MP DigiCams, 16.7MP DSLR's, Image Stabilization, These Forums!, GB's worth of Flash Cards, 1 TB Hard Drives, 4GB RAM, Quad Processors, LCD monitors. In 30 years people will be saying the same thing about the current stuff we have now.

Another PERFECT example is the Home Improvment industry. With rates going down and renovations rising, you get people who are handy-men at best, entering the "Professional" market. You get what you paid for. It's really up to the consumers to excercise good judgement.

A wedding is a once in a lifetime(hopefully for most!) event. I paid lots of money for my wedding. They turned out great. Sure I could have hired a friend to do this. But I wanted to make sure it was done right. I paid the price. But that's my value system. But if you don't have the money, then perhaps going the cheaper route is better than not getting any shots.

[nitekatt2006]

Regarding pro wedding photographers. I happened to visit my neighbor one afternoon and noticed her wedding 5x7 shot framed in the living room. The quality was awful and I assumed it was just a snapshot. The gal said they had their friend shoot their wedding because mother was footing the bill for the whole event and no bucks left for a pro photographer. Needless to say, she explained that all those lost memories of their wedding were shot by an unpro and i think she learned her lesson.

A doctor friend asked me to photograph his wedding reception and as a wedding present, I made up an album for he and his bride. I used my 10D and flash and they loved the photos and it was my first time doing a reception. They of course had a pro wedding photographer shoot the ceremony and the reception. i even mentioned to the photographer that i was asked by the groom to shoot the reception, but explained I would in no way interfere with with his workflow. He thanked me for letting him know that and had no problem. He was shooting a film med format Hasselblad and of course his shots were outstanding. it was a great day and everyone pleased with our results

katt

[nicksan]

Regarding pro wedding photographers. I happened to visit my neighbor one afternoon and noticed her wedding 5x7 shot framed in the living room. The quality was awful and I assumed it was just a snapshot. The gal said they had their friend shoot their wedding because mother was footing the bill for the whole event and no bucks left for a pro photographer. Needless to say, she explained that all those lost memories of their wedding were shot by an unpro and i think she learned her lesson.

A doctor friend asked me to photograph his wedding reception and as a wedding present, I made up an album for he and his bride. I used my 10D and flash and they loved the photos and it was my first time doing a reception. They of course had a pro wedding photographer shoot the ceremony and the reception. i even mentioned to the photographer that i was asked by the groom to shoot the reception, but explained I would in no way interfere with with his workflow. He thanked me for letting him know that and had no problem. He was shooting a film med format Hasselblad and of course his shots were outstanding. it was a great day and everyone pleased with our results

katt

Perfect example of a "Pro" and "Ameteur" working side-by-side and providing great "service" without getting in eachother's way.

I had a limited budget on my wedding as well, but me and my wife agreed that the photo op would be a once in a life time thing and we wanted to nail it. So we accounted for the cost of a "pro" doing it. He nailed it. We were very happy and proud to show it to others. No regrets there. He had his own company with several photogs working and a full production team and portfolios. His presentation definitelyt won me over. So that's something to keep in mind as well. He gave us the sales pitch and we bit the bait.

But really, what choice would I have if I didn't have the money to pay a pro? So again, I have to say it's nice to have some pics, than none.

It's always nice to have a friend who actually is a good photographer. Sounds to me that you are someone like that and I'm sure your gift was well appreciated!

[AB8ND]

Actually, I remember hearing the same Uncle Joe problem when film SLR's started selling to "the public" 20 years ago.

Jack

[Skrim17]

I found out that the local shop here was actually part of a chain (Photo Professor) and the owner had 2 of them and decided to close them both. Teh gentleman who managed the shop for him will continue to be a photographer privately and will probably wind up working in another local shop that might be a little larger scale.