L glass ? What is that then ?

[iwatkins]

Sorry :twisted:

Lot of threads running on this at the moment.

However, I just can't get excited about fancy glass. I couldn't give a monkeys what colour a lens is, what colour the little ring is or even what maker's name is printed on it. I care even less if it has the letter L stamped on it somewhere.

I will buy a lens purely based on whether it meets my particular requirements. I will weigh up the costs/features/benefits offered by several makers offerings and then decide based on that. It is a tool, just like the body.

Of the six lenses I have bought in the past 1.5 years, using these simple rules, only one of them is a Canon lens and that isn't stamped with the letter "L".

I still produce good pictures and I still enjoy myself. Hey, and I still have savings in the bank I can use for other things.

Am I wrong ?

Cheers

Ian


(DISCLAIMER - If you are a Pro and you do need to produce the absolute best quality you can to earn money to put food on the table, then I fully understand the reasons to go for L glass. In addition, if you are not a Pro but have loads of cash (or don't mind starving), then by all means, buy L, it is your money).

[rick barclay]

You're obviously not normal. You need a good psychologist who will
bring you back into the mainstream of healthy, happy American capitalist thought, while charging you $200/hr. for the privilege.

[maderito]

This reminds me of discussions among audiophiles, some of whom are willing to spend wopping $$ to get the ultimate bass and high frequency response speaker or receiver even though they've already lost most of their LF/HF hearing acuity because of age or listening to headphones at high volumes for too long.

If you can afford the luxury (L), it's no big deal to pony up the $$ for what is claimed to be the best. I consider myself less fortunate and more prudent in my choices (2 of my 5 lenses are L, and both of those are f4 and not the more expensive f2.8 versions).

I think everyone here aims to be prudent but nonetheless struggles with . . .

What is the value of joy and self-satisfaction? :?

[E.D. Sterns]

Obviously there's nothing wrong with your approach to buying photo gear. It's like anything else. A Honda will get you to the store just the same as a BMW, but which would you rather have if you could have either one?

Some people do get excited about fancy glass. Everyone has something they lust after. For some it's cars, for some it's optics. Different strokes.

[PacAce]

Sorry :twisted:

Lot of threads running on this at the moment.

However, I just can't get excited about fancy glass. I couldn't give a monkeys what colour a lens is, what colour the little ring is or even what maker's name is printed on it. I care even less if it has the letter L stamped on it somewhere.

I will buy a lens purely based on whether it meets my particular requirements. I will weigh up the costs/features/benefits offered by several makers offerings and then decide based on that. It is a tool, just like the body.

Of the six lenses I have bought in the past 1.5 years, using these simple rules, only one of them is a Canon lens and that isn't stamped with the letter "L".

I still produce good pictures and I still enjoy myself. Hey, and I still have savings in the bank I can use for other things.

Am I wrong ?

Cheers

Ian


I, for one, don't think you're wrong. I agree with you 100%. Oops. I take that back. I'll agree with you 99.9%. The part I don't agree with is your statement, "I just can't get excited about fancy glass". You see, I DO get excited about fancy glass. Not because it's an L but because it'll allow me to take the kind of pictures I couldn't with the other lenses I have. So, although I can get excited about some fancy glass, it doesn't necessarily have to be an L lens I get excited about. It's the fact that more picture taking opportunities have opened up for me with the new glass, whether it be an L or a Sigma EX (and that's where I draw the line) that excites me. :)

[SnJPhoto]

Well...this seems to be an emotionally charged discussion. What I don't hear people talk about is the other parts of lenses, focusing motors, build quality, noise (audible) levels.... I do own L series lenses, but the decision wasn't purely based on the optical quality of the glass (other vendors are fairly competetive there). the decisions for me are based on the package of performance features. I have yet to find a lens that matches the ones I have, feature for feature. To me thats where the trade space is (motors speed, noise etc) if you want to buy more economical lenses.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I concur Ian.. in fact;

Lenses I have used that were optically as good as any others.. (including L)

EF 50mm f/1.8
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 135mm f/2.8
EX 70-200mm f/2.8
EX 50-500mm
EX 500mm f/4.5

...and I know I'll find more as time goes by...

[Tom W]

Well...this seems to be an emotionally charged discussion. What I don't hear people talkl about is the other parts of lenses, focusin motors, build quality, noise (audible) levels.... I do own L series lenses, but the decision wasn't purely based on the optical quality of the glass (other vendors are fairly competetive there). thje decisions for me are based on the pacakge of performance features. I have yet to find a lens that matches the ones I have feature for feature. To me thats where the trade space is (motors speed, noise etc) if you want buy more economical lenses.

You do bring up a good point - I haven't found a lens yet, except for my 17-40L that matches the precision and smoothness of my 50 mm breech-lock lens on my FT. The focus and aperture adjustments are buttery smooth. Its a well-machined lens assembly - something that is sadly lacking in today's world.

[KVN Photo]

Obviously there's nothing wrong with your approach to buying photo gear. It's like anything else. A Honda will get you to the store just the same as a BMW, but which would you rather have if you could have either one?

bw!

[rick_reno]

Obviously there's nothing wrong with your approach to buying photo gear. It's like anything else. A Honda will get you to the store just the same as a BMW, but which would you rather have if you could have either one?



It depends. If they're both under warranty, I'll take the BMW.

[JohnB57]

Who's been digging in the archive..?

Kevin - you were a lad of ten when this thread started!

[nightcat]

I totally agree with you. You can always spot an amatuer on this website when you see an overemphasis on L lenses. You get goofy questions like.. "how do you clean an L lens"? I think when buying a lens, forget the letter L and get the best glass for the job. Sometimes it will be an L, and many times it won't. I have 12 lenses and 4 are L lenses, and I didn't buy them because they were Ls.

[vitacura]

Wow.. a seven year old thread revived!

[ktownhero]

It depends. If they're both under warranty, I'll take the BMW.

With a BMW, you're more likely to actually use the warranty :lol: Of course, Hondas have no pep and sound like farts. I split the difference and go VW :)

Oh wait, what were we talking about again?

[nicksan]

I tripped over some seriously thick cobweb.

[yourdoinitwrong]

I didn't even own a camera when this thread was started! :lol:

[Inspeqtor]

In the last hour this thread has more than doubled what it was 7 years ago!

[w00tabulous!]

Here's a shuffle; can you dig it, fool :)

[RandyS]

With a BMW, you're more likely to actually use the warranty :lol: Of course, Hondas have no pep and sound like farts. I split the difference and go VW :)

Oh wait, what were we talking about again?
Of course you are.

The BMW warranty covers pretty much everything that wears out on all cars (oil changes, bulbs, brake pads, etc).

As for lenses ... if you like a lens and it doesn't say "L" on it ... so what? Shoot with it, don't look at it.

[absplastic]

Like the OP, I get excited about how certain lenses perform, not necessarily what color they are, or what letters are in the model number. My 17-55/2.8 is a good example; I could have easily had something with a red ring and "L" on it for the same price, and was indeed considering the 24-105, but it would have been as good a choice for my exact needs.

Usually though, you can't go wrong with the L, especially in longer focal lengths. Canon has a reputation for making optically decent wide and standard zooms (nifty fifty, 18-55 IS, etc), but piss-poor consumer zooms in the longer lengths. My 100-300mm USM was the worst lens I've ever used on any camera, owned or rented, and it's the reason all my teles have been L's since.

[ToddR]

Wow.. a seven year old thread revived!
And here I was just about to clean up some of my subscriptions on old, dormant threads. I guess you never know when one will come back to life. (I wasn't subscribed to this one, though.) ;)

[alpha_1976]

I didn't even own a camera when this thread was started! :lol:

Me too not even a P/S.

[xanavi]

90% of my lens are all L. I do say that L or non-L, does not make a difference. It is the skills within one photographer.

[joayne]

a seven year old discussion continues ad nauseam...543258

[The Warlock]

I dont think my L lenses count in this discussion, they werent made at the point this thread started,lol, if they had been ,the OP would have thought different:cool:

[banpreso]

lol wow... when this thread started i was still in college...

anyways, i have more lenses than i can use, and none of them are L. i'm very big on value, and L lenses are simply too expensive for my taste. although there are L lenses that i like, and it will be nice to have AF on my native canon mount, other alternative lenses are 20% the price of an equivilant L lens!

i'm thinking about consolidating my lens somewhat and go for a 135 f2... but i got the zeiss sonnar for 10% the price of the canon L, and it's an excellent performer!

[KVN Photo]

I dont think my L lenses count in this discussion, they werent made at the point this thread started,lol, if they had been ,the OP would have thought different:cool:

Agree, there is no 70-200 f/4.0L IS and f/2.8L IS II. :D

[noisejammer]

I have yet to meet a woodworker who didn't prefer sharp tools. You can put a sharp edge on any tool but some tools hold that edge longer (and for this you may choose to exchange some of your kids' inheritance.) Some tools fit the hand better, some are simply nicer to use. Some are simply primitive but owning them gives the woodworker a sense of wonder at the hands that once crafted something magical with nothing more complex....

I have no doubt that _in_the_right_hands_ superb images can result from modest equipment. Photography is as much an art as it is a craft - but there is craft too and I don't have the right hands. Nice glass - whichever label it carries - does bring with it a sense of "If the image is poor, there's no doubt that I need to work harder." So I will shoot blah images but I will look at what others are achieving with the same gear. I'll think about what they've done and next time my images may be a little better.

...and even if my images don't get better, I am _trying_damn_hard_ to improve. This grows me as a person. I'm happy to be nudged along by some fine optics.

[FuturamaJSP]

I didn't even own a camera when this thread was started! :lol:

neither did I :D
Though I bought my first camera about 5 months later :D

Obviously there's nothing wrong with your approach to buying photo gear. It's like anything else. A Honda will get you to the store just the same as a BMW, but which would you rather have if you could have either one?

Some people do get excited about fancy glass. Everyone has something they lust after. For some it's cars, for some it's optics. Different strokes.

I think it's wrong to compare photography equipment to cars simply because they are more like tools to create something rather than some object you want to show off :p

[lonescout]

Now I have L lenses I can no longer blame my kit.

I just have to face the reality that I am a rubbish photographer...............:(

[The Warlock]

Now I have L lenses I can no longer blame my kit.

I just have to face the reality that I am a rubbish photographer...............:(

Lol, agreed, cant hide behind a "bad" lense and put blame on it anymore. I like having good gear and then learn how to use it, than having crap gear and only learn it's limits.

[Rayk]

What about image quality????

[The Outlaw]

I concur Ian.. in fact;

Lenses I have used that were optically as good as any others.. (including L)

EF 50mm f/1.8
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 135mm f/2.8
EX 70-200mm f/2.8
EX 50-500mm
EX 500mm f/4.5

...and I know I'll find more as time goes by... 7 years have gone by... what do you have to add lol :D

[jwicaksana]

Who's been digging in the archive..?

Kevin - you were a lad of ten when this thread started!

Quite a digger he is. LOL

[CyberDyneSystems]

7 years have gone by... what do you have to add lol :D

Scratch the 50 1.8 off that list, and I'm still happy.
But I'm not saying WHICH "L" they compare well with !!! ;)

[nureality]

Sorry :twisted:

Lot of threads running on this at the moment.

However, I just can't get excited about fancy glass. I couldn't give a monkeys what colour a lens is, what colour the little ring is or even what maker's name is printed on it. I care even less if it has the letter L stamped on it somewhere.

I will buy a lens purely based on whether it meets my particular requirements. I will weigh up the costs/features/benefits offered by several makers offerings and then decide based on that. It is a tool, just like the body.

Of the six lenses I have bought in the past 1.5 years, using these simple rules, only one of them is a Canon lens and that isn't stamped with the letter "L".

I still produce good pictures and I still enjoy myself. Hey, and I still have savings in the bank I can use for other things.

Am I wrong ?

Cheers

Ian


(DISCLAIMER - If you are a Pro and you do need to produce the absolute best quality you can to earn money to put food on the table, then I fully understand the reasons to go for L glass. In addition, if you are not a Pro but have loads of cash (or don't mind starving), then by all means, buy L, it is your money).

Someone has some unresolved inferiority complexes to get over.

L costs more cuz it does more... you pay for the privilege to do more. You pay professional prices to get professional equipment.

The same goes @ Home Depot, same goes @ Car dealerships, same goes @ Watch dealers. You pay more to get more. The question is, is the "more" worth it to your pocket. Some of us have deeper pockets, some of us just want the best and are willing to save our pennies for it, and some of us make money with our equipment and must rely on it and are willing to pay for that reliability.

But to make such a loud statement that says nothing is kinda childish.

Lastly, but not least, there is a MAJOR difference between the money invested into bodies and lenses... because Lens prices always go up (especially on the higher-end gear), while bodies are like cars and lose value the minute you buy em, and decline precipitously from month-to-month and year-to-year.

And mind you, this is coming from a guy who only owns 2 L's out of an arsenal of over 30 lenses. And I don't make money from my photography.

[MOkoFOko]

bw!

He's a witch! Burn the thread necromancer at the stake!

[Foreboding]

Now I have L lenses I can no longer blame my kit.

I just have to face the reality that I am a rubbish photographer...............:(

LOL - good on ya mate!

[PHughes]

Sorry :twisted:

Lot of threads running on this at the moment.

However, I just can't get excited about fancy glass. I couldn't give a monkeys what colour a lens is, what colour the little ring is or even what maker's name is printed on it. I care even less if it has the letter L stamped on it somewhere.

I will buy a lens purely based on whether it meets my particular requirements. I will weigh up the costs/features/benefits offered by several makers offerings and then decide based on that. It is a tool, just like the body.

Of the six lenses I have bought in the past 1.5 years, using these simple rules, only one of them is a Canon lens and that isn't stamped with the letter "L".

I still produce good pictures and I still enjoy myself. Hey, and I still have savings in the bank I can use for other things.

Am I wrong ?

Cheers

Ian


(DISCLAIMER - If you are a Pro and you do need to produce the absolute best quality you can to earn money to put food on the table, then I fully understand the reasons to go for L glass. In addition, if you are not a Pro but have loads of cash (or don't mind starving), then by all means, buy L, it is your money).

No you aren't wrong, but good glass will improve the quality of big enlargements more than a new body. There are good lenses that are L lenses and good ones that are not. You see a difference in good glass if you do large prints though. All that said, you have to have the skills to produce good images and the glass won't help that. You can take "wow" images with just about any camera, but there is an advantage to quality lenses.

I have a 70-200 f/4 L IS, but I have taken many very good images with my 18-55 II kit lens I got with my old 350D. I have the model that came just before the IS version. The images from the 70-200 though are noticeably better though in terms of contrast, color and overall sharpness though.

[AbPho]

I buy the new M glass. It's a level above L.

[MOkoFOko]

I buy the new M glass. It's a level above L.

It's a level below. You want the K-glass.

[AbPho]

Darn. I thought the salesman was a little shady.

[genjurok]

I love the 28-75 tamron much more than the 24-70L simply because the IQ is similar to my eyes, however the weight of 24-70L alone is a huge turn off.

[bahnhof]

when I was a kid, I liked playing ping pong. first with paddles provided by school. on my way going to school and back from school, i used to stop by a department store and stare over the counter window at the "double happiness" bat which costed 5 yuan (my dad earned 55 yuan a month at the time). it was my dream paddle. I finally got the bat and was extremely happy with it. In my high school and college days, I got to know that professional ping pong players always used custome-made rubber with custom-made glue on custom-made blade. so I searched for and played with different rubber on different blade till I found a combination that goes with my feel. I was well aware that a good player would beat me with any paddle he could get, even a blade without rubber (yeah, I played with guys from shanghai sports university - i think institute of physical education would be a better translation - who majored in ping pong, and it was a excruciating experience to be beaten whatever you tried). But I still prefer a good paddle that makes me feel happy. I think that's part of the game, and part of the fun.

[shedberg]

Man, I can't wait for Canon to release the 20D...

[oharing]

(DISCLAIMER - If you are a Pro and you do need to produce the absolute best quality you can to earn money to put food on the table, then I fully understand the reasons to go for L glass. In addition, if you are not a Pro but have loads of cash (or don't mind starving), then by all means, buy L, it is your money).[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. If you are a pro get L. If you are not enjoy whatever you have! The most important is the joy of creating images not the L designation on your glass!!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

Someone has some unresolved inferiority complexes to get over....


I'm pretty sure he got over it in 2005. :)

As noted by the dates on the original post, these are by no means new sentiments on either side of the debate.

I think a good solid part of the "whole truth" here is that no one class or brand of lenses is best for everything.

The 85L can not do what the lowly EF 85mm f/1.8 can (ie super fast focus for sports and action)
Some off brand products can do what no L or Canon lens Can (SIGMA 300-800mm zoom for example)
etc...

Therefore I feel any generalization is a bad idea, and the bottom line is base each purchase on the individual lens' applicability to your needs and budget.

To date, i still own a handful of lenses that are not "L" and use them often.

[Phoenixkh]

so, I have a G12...which L lens should I buy? I plan to keep it in my camera bag so I have bragging rights.

[AbPho]

so, I have a G12...which L lens should I buy? I plan to keep it in my camera bag so I have bragging rights.The 85L should suit nicely.