Calibration: video card issue?

[richardtallent]

I've been struggling just to get Windows apps, Photoshop, and Capture One to display JPEGs with sRGB-embedded profiles the same way (or even roughly similar). The ultimate goal is to make sure my digital photos will look decent on the average uncalibrated PC monitor (over the web, etc.). Print is not important to me, and, for the moment, *relative* calibration between managed and unmanaged apps is more important than absolute calibration.

Currently, colorspace-unmanaged Windows apps like IE and the XP picture viewer look ok (using the manufacturer's monitor profile), but Photoshop (set to sRGB working profile) and Capture One (set to the same monitor profile as XP) both look like dark horse doo (http://www.tallent.us/blogphotos/colorproblem.jpg). Photoshop looks fine when I turn off color management.

Any ideas? I tried using wysiWYG, but its RGB gamma control sliders have no effect on the display. Not that it would make much difference, the monitor profile I have now already seems right based on gamma and black level charts I've found on the web (e.g., http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html).

[Jesper]

Did you use a hardware device such as a Spyder (http://www.colorvision.com) to calibrate your monitor? Or at least Adobe Gamma?

Using a hardware calibration device will most likely give you MUCH better results than any software-only method, where you use your own eyes to estimate the accuracy of the display. Before I bought the Spyder, I thought my profile created with Adobe Gamma was quite OK, but the profile made with the Spyder was MUCH more accurate!

If you use a Spyder, make sure to disable Adobe Gamma (remove it from the Startup folder in Windows), otherwise Adobe Gamma and the software that came with the spyder will both try to correct the colours and it will look wrong. Maybe something similar is happening on your computer, if you have both Adobe Gamma and Wysiwyg installed.

Photoshop, CaptureOne and other, non color managed applications should look the same if you use sRGB as the working color space and you've set up everything correctly.

[richardtallent]

Followup: That's exactly what I ended up doing. Spending $200+ of hardware calibration is not an option, and near-identical viewing in managed *AND* unmanaged apps is important for me... I don't use Photoshop to browse family photos, nor does anyone I burn a CD for.

With sRGB set all around (C1, Photoshop, and Windows so C1 won't complain), everything looks great. My understanding is that hardware calibration (or Adobe gamma loader for that matter) won't help one iota except in managed apps that actually pay attention to the monitor profile.

[defordphoto]

For my curiosity: What brand/type monitor?

[gcogger]

The only way to get the same results in colour managed apps and unmanaged apps is to not use colour management in the managed ones! At which point it doesn't make sense to bother with a monitor profile.
The idea that sRGB is intended to make the apps look the same is a common misconception. sRGB is basically a working space that approximates to an average monitor's capabilities - if you put an sRGB-embedded image on a website then it will probably look 'OK' on most people's machines. It's quite possible (and it looks like this is true for your monitor) that the image will look wrong for some people. I've seen a tremendous variation between the monitors people are using at work, and my carefully created (sRGB) images look too dark on my work monitor. There is nothing 'magic' about sRGB that can solve this.
The monitor profile is something that apps like Photoshop will use to modify the data sent to the monitor. Most apps (e.g. IE), and Windows itself, will ignore the information in the profile - therefore there is nothing you can do to mke them look the same.
Unfortunately most people do not use colour management or have calibrated monitors. How your images will look to people browsing your website will therefore be largely a matter of luck. That's just the way it is, I'm afraid :-(

[richardtallent]

RFMSports: Samsung 191T. 19" LCD. Has great contrast and color. I have an ATI card with a built-in TV tuner and it also looks great.

gcogger: And therein lies the rub. If using color management guarantees that the photos will look like crap in anything but in Photoshop and on paper, it's not worth the pain. I also "publish" my photos to my ReplayTV, which plays them back on my TV during its screen saver mode, so there's one more output device I'd be stuck without if I use color-management.

I'm happy where I am for now... photos look the same and strangely enough look decent on every other monitor I can find as well. That's good enough for me.

[maderito]

I'll make a simple point:

Just because your images look good in PS while using sRGB as the PS working space may have little bearing on how the image will look outside of PS -- unless you've optimized all the variables.

When you are in PS with an sRGB image and sRGB working color space, the "on the fly" color management takes the sRGB image color number (say 200,0,0), finds its value in a reference color space (say 190,0,0) and then fires the guns on your monitor CRT according to how your monitor profile dictates (say 190,0,0 ref -> 170,0,0 on yr monitor). (This is a bit simplified!)

If your monitor's 170,0,0 is a good representation of sRGB 190,0,0 -- all goes well. If not, then you've got a problem. That's why getting your monitor calibrated and profiled is so important.

Do this: while in PS, goto the file menu: View | Proof Setup | Monitor RGB. Checking the "Monitor RGB" proof option shuts off PS color management and allows you to view the image in your computer's native, non color managed space while still in PS. If you don't like what you see, you either have a poorly calibrated monitor (most likely) or you would have to edit your images with color management disabled - which would be a shame.

Hope I'm not covering ground you already know --since you already seem quite knowledgeable on the subject.

BTW, I'm assuming that your PS working space has been set up properly, i.e., that there exists a monitor profile for your computer, that PS has located and loaded it, and you know what that profile is.