Going to italy for the summer...

[august23]

I'm not buying a DSLR, and I think I made the best choice for not going SLR. This is what I'm taking with me to Italy. I'm buying the stuff in a couple weeks. Do you guys have any suggestions in terms of different equipment? I'll be taking mostly Italian nightlife pics. The pics during the day I'm not concerned about because day shots look the same to me DSLR or not. What do you guys think?

Camera:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091405_canon_g7.asp

Lenses:
http://www.amazon.com/Raynox-HD-7000-Definition-Wideangle-Camcorders/dp/B0002SKCLW

Tripods:
One for during the day/emergencys
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16830994009

One for the night shooting
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16830997415

Is there anything you guys would add or change? If so, why?

I'm looking to take the best shots of Italy that I can without a DSLR, in all sorts of conditions. Day, night, foggy, rainy, etc. Will this "kit" do the job?

[rammy]

I am also going to Italy in the summer, Ravello near the Amalfi coast and I will be spending early mornings and evenings getting good lighting shots.

I will be taking my kit along with a new L lens and body I am currently saving for. Why compact, why not SLR? Please explain further?

[Steiglitz]

It would be a big mistake to not bring a DSLR to Italy....too often people equate DSLR with a heavy bag of kit...this does not have to be the case. These are your memories....they should be treated with better then a Point & Shoot...I toured Italy for three weeks several months ago, and I'm glad I brought a DSLR...it would pain me if I hadn't...once in a life time images to waste with a BS camera :-(

Keep the tripod at home as it will be a big hassle....most museums forbid flash but bring an external anyways for portraits (fill flash)...you are severly limiting your shooting opportunities if you bring a P&S...I have shots with my DSLR that a P&S could never get with decent quality. Dark Cathedrals, dark museums cry out for a fast aperture, and/or high ISO low noise, two things your G7 is hopelessly bad at :-(

Why not get a Canon XTi for similar $$, the kit lens, and the $70 Canon 50mm F1.8? F1.8 often means flash is not required. This would be a much, much better kit and give much better image quality. You use the G7 you will be sorry at the piss poor image quality unless all your shots are in perfect bright light.

The kit your proposed will take great snapsnots, but not many pictures.

[august23]

believe me when i say i appriciate your input. but there are several factors.

1. im by no means professional, and even if i wanted to learn, i dont have the time to learn by the time i go.

2. i cannot afford it...simple. granted the xti is very close, id have to consider lenses, a bag, etc.

3. im not into photography enough to be worthy of a DSLR purchase. after italy, i want something ill still take around with me, not collect dust, and thatd be a sin to have laying around.

4. i want to take great pictures, but i dont need to take professional pictures that can be sold or something.

so within those guidelines, and as you said "snapshots" im looking pretty decent?

[august23]

and please dont take any offense. i appriciate all the help. why are you so against p&s cameras? i understand DSLRS take rediculously good photos, but your the first person ive met that completely shuns the idea of a p&s lol.

[ilovemycamera]

Well, august23, it's kinda like taking a fanny pack vs. a nice sized backpack on an over night hiking trip.... you'll be able to pack enough food and supplies to keep your stomach from growling the entire time, but you won't have enough food and/or gear if you needed it. You would be a lot more comfortable with the lighter sack, but you'd be lacking comfort when it came time to bed down and all you had was the clothes on your back to keep you warm and dry. And if you decided to have a snack, you couldn't, because you opted for a lighter load.

The dslr is THE way to go in terms of taking pictures that are worthy of looking at once you get home. I agree, it is overwhelming at first, but you can deal with it. Just keep coming here to the forum and reading info, and play around with it once you get it. You won't look back. The possibilities are endless, and if you decided the dslr was a little overwhelming, sell it. Although i doubt it will come to that.

Spend a few extra dollars and go for it. You get what you pay for.

If you are just wanting some snapshots of you in front of a cathedral or in a restaurant, buy yourself some disposable cameras and don't worry about investing in a point and shoot.

Just my opinion, but isn't that what you came here for?

[august23]

ur opinions are exactly what i came here for. and i greatly appriciate them. i just feel i wont do a DSLR justice, because im just not that into photography. ill see how it goes...ive got a couple months to think about it. i dont even know what the hell lenses are. all i see on these forums is ##-## mm f/## and i have NO IDEA what the hell those numbers mean... not to mention once i get back from italy, what do i do then? when those summer days come and we're just hanging around the pool or out at the bar for a night.....im going to lug a giant piece of glass around with me? i dont think so. :\

so you can kinda understand my dilemma

[ilovemycamera]

ur opinions are exactly what i came here for. and i greatly appriciate them. i just feel i wont do a DSLR justice, because im just not that into photography. ill see how it goes...ive got a couple months to think about it. i dont even know what the hell lenses are. all i see on these forums is ##-## mm f/## and i have NO IDEA what the hell those numbers mean... not to mention once i get back from italy, what do i do then? when those summer days come and we're just hanging around the pool or out at the bar for a night.....im going to lug a giant piece of glass around with me? i dont think so. :\

so you can kinda understand my dilemma


True. I do understand your point. If you are wanting to spend 150-200, you can get a decent point and shoot with 6-7 megapixels that will fit in your purse and be versatile, discreet, and portable. I hope you really put some thought into the whole dslr idea, though.

[august23]

grrrrr.....now im mad at you lol. because now im looking at the XTi thinking....i can get used to this. people say their biggest complaint is its small in size....which im perfectly ok with. i was told not to buy it with the standard kit lens....so i would need to buy at least two lenses to go with it. so i have two questions then....

1. what lens for everyday, partys, special events should i buy?
2. what lens for things like skylines, landscapes, ITALY ENVIORNMENTS should i buy?

if you could only buy two lenses is basically what im saying, and one was for travel/landscape, and the other was going to basically stay on the body otherwise, which two would u buy?

mind u this is ALL HYPOTHETICAL because im not sure yet if im going to do something like this. damn you for talking me into this...lol

[Steiglitz]

August23, the starndard kit lens for the XTi will give you better images then any P&S will....my GF has the XTi and I am often surprised at the quality out of her kit lens.

Bring the kit lens for all daytime outside shots, and the 28mm Prime or 50mm prime for inside shots of dark museums, cathedrals, reastuarants, and often no need for a flash because these wide/standard primes have very wide open apertures that flood the camera with light, often mitigating the need for a flash.

Just two lenses, both small, both decent in image quality, especially a wide/standard fast prime...this kit is very small and will fit in a small bag, and you can carry the 50mm prime in your pocket, sling the camera over your shoulder so really no bag required.

The XTi with kit lens is $700-$800, and the 50mm F1.8 prime is around $70....this kit will beat any and all P&S cameras for image quality all day long.

Also buy your kit on the internet out of state to save on sales tax, and you will get a better price too....this is a kit you can grow into and there are many here that will help you grow, if you just keep reading threads here and ask questions...we all want you to bring back wonderful images of Italy....

[august23]

Believe me I want nothing more than to bring back wonderful images. I do have a bunch of really quick answerable questions about the XTi if you guys wouldn't mind clearing my thoughts up.

1. I have to frame my shots through the viewfinder? I cannot use the LCD display to see what the camera is seeing? According to what I've seen, its used for only playback and showing the cameras current settings.

2. I would like to be in some of my own cameras pictures in Italy as well. Throwing it into auto mode, would a friend with no experience whatsoever be able to take a snap without messing it up terribly?

3. DSLRS obviously have no video mode. So is it not worth getting a 2gb, saving that and just getting 512mb? Truth is, I'll have my laptop to dump my pictures out on every night. So picture space isnt really a problem, and outside of this trip, I don't see a need for a storage capacity of 1000+ photos.

Thank you so much for your time.

[Steiglitz]

You'll need to use the view finder...the LCD only shows shots already taken.

Yes, a friend can take your snap if you put the camera in auto mode, but you must tell him/her to focus on your eyes....take 5 minutes to show them how, or you can just set it to F8 or F11 and let them fire away.

Canon DSLR's have no video mode....think about leaving the laptop home and use the many, many many internet cafe's to dump your images daily to a gmail 2gb account...it is cheap, and most of the cafes provide card readers or you could bring your own $20 USB reader....I would be afraid of theft of my laptop if I brought it...leave it home...one less expensive item not to worry about.

If you shoot in jpg mode, a 1gb card will suffice if you dump it daily or every other day to your laptop or internet mail account....2gb is better if you can swing it. Get a basic book on DSLR photography...it seems you'll have plenty of time to learn the basics before the flight leaves....you will do fine!

[Maureen Souza]

I went to Italy last June and can't wait to go back. I would never dream of using anything but my DSLR to try to capture all the beautiful parts of that country.
I am going back next spring....can't wait!

[august23]

thanks everyone i really appriciate it. this is a HUGE step for me IF i decide to take it. just know that IF i do take this step, u better recommend the best landscape lens around! ;)

ive been reading reviews on the xti and the kit is apparently garbage. id rather save the 100 bucks and put it towards a decent L lens. (listen to me, talking about L lenses like i have any clue what they are!)

[Box Brownie]

thanks everyone i really appriciate it. this is a HUGE step for me IF i decide to take it. just know that IF i do take this step, u better recommend the best landscape lens around! ;)

ive been reading reviews on the xti and the kit is apparently garbage. id rather save the 100 bucks and put it towards a decent L lens. (listen to me, talking about L lenses like i have any clue what they are!)

Hi

Firstly, I came to digital from many years (too many to think about ;) ) of 35mm SLR usage and the move to digital has been great.

Secondly, photography in many ways is like getting a dog for Xmas ~ you know, it is for life not just for Xmas.

I have the XT (350D here in the UK), I bought this to replace my Konica Minolta A2 this is a prosumer (hi spec P&S) and that gave me very good service but when the 350D came out other than money angst I did not hesitate to buy it with the kit lens.

The kit lens for the money is a very creditable performer working best if it is stopped down to f8 but it is no slouch wide open. A lens that compliments it in build quality but is stellar in optical performance is the Canon 55-200mm.

As I think was mentioned by another poster all cameras & lenses have their limitations ~ get the camera and learn how to use and get the best from it IMHO you will not be disappointed but please bear in mind that to get the very best form a dSLR some post processing will be needed. Yes, you can set the camera to do the (in camera) processing but part of the emjoyment of dSLR ownership is seeing how much the images can be 'developed' to get every last bit of quality out of them.

Having said all that I also have a P&S for those situations when my dSLR is sidelined.

Whatever you decide to get will need you take the time to learn how to use it and get the best from it - once you have found the limits of "it" and your capabilities then will be the time to think about additionals lenses and/or upgrades.

HTH :)

PS Those that complain about kit lens issues are the most vocal, others like me just (?) post the results to show and share ;) All here http://www.villagevisits.co.uk/gallery.shtml?c=show_album;p=Barcelona%202005 were taken with the kit lens :D I think they show a good range of subject matter both in & outdoors.

PPS For some images with the 55-200mm check my posting in this thread http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=256063 Also this thread (beware 56k dialup users) http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82318&highlight=kit+lens if you look down the thread I have posted one image that was taken with the kit lens and PPed to get the 'best' from it!

[august23]

Thanks for all the help guys. I slept on it, and I think I made the right choice....

I'm gettin myself an XTi!! :)

But heres the plan, tell me if its a good one.

My birthday is in May. I wait til then to buy the XTi, given that ill have much more money to spend at that time. Waiting not only gives me time to learn about photography and review good lens purchases, but allows time for the XTi's price to drop a little bit, especially with the big line-up announcement in march. I leave for Italy mid-july, which gives me 2 full months with hands on training, not a lot, but itll give me a basic understanding. And I'll keep my SD700 for all those times that i WONT be bringing around a giant piece of glass.

Does this plan sound much better than the G7?

[Box Brownie]

I say go for it, I stick with what I said in my earlier post.

Getting it in May will give you good daylight hours and spring subjects to take & show off hereabouts.

All being well 2 months of learning & playing (do not forget to have fun with it!) should get you on the road.

But do keep an eye on the price at your prefered dealer and if possible buy soon as practical ~ YMMV but I do love to get my hands on new kit ;)

HTH :)

[ilovemycamera]

Thanks for all the help guys. I slept on it, and I think I made the right choice....

I'm gettin myself an XTi!! :)

But heres the plan, tell me if its a good one.

My birthday is in May. I wait til then to buy the XTi, given that ill have much more money to spend at that time. Waiting not only gives me time to learn about photography and review good lens purchases, but allows time for the XTi's price to drop a little bit, especially with the big line-up announcement in march. I leave for Italy mid-july, which gives me 2 full months with hands on training, not a lot, but itll give me a basic understanding. And I'll keep my SD700 for all those times that i WONT be bringing around a giant piece of glass.

Does this plan sound much better than the G7?


I don't think you'll be the least bit disappointed. I'm anxious to see what glass you'll be itching to buy now!

[august23]

yeah....about glass....lol. im going to be very very blunt about this.

when you guys talk about glass, WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU SAYING?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

my god its been driving me insane!!!! 17-55, 10-340, 5345345345-34534068068 ARGH!!!!!!

I DONT KNOW WHAT ANY OF THIS STUFF MEANS!!!! lol

[Hermeto]

Hah, what a beautiful thread! :D
Congratulations on your decision!

Take a look here, you may like it..

http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/enjoydslr/

http://images.photoworkshop.com/rebelxtlessons/interface.html

[Steiglitz]

Anada sole won fa jesus...praise da lord! Hallaluya!

[Box Brownie]

Hi

Hermeto's links are good and will 'walk' you through many of the basics etc.

As for glass ;) let me put it as basically as possible. Get the kit lens go take all sorts of subjects e.g. landscapes, people, still life/close ups etc. Then when in your opinion and it can only be yours, you find that lens limiting such as not wide enough for landscapes or too short for isolating subjects like wildlife or not being able to fill the frame on a close up ~ only then will you need to think about other glass (lenses). Then (and you could have done the research in advance) look in the lens section and other review sites like http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/index.php?cat=45

In other words forget the numbers for now and let your eyes and the results you get tell you what you should be considering. Getting the two lens combo I suggested will serve you very well until you decide that new lenses will improve the end result.

HTH :)

[august23]

ok im slightly confused. ive been reading reviews, and everyone seems to be comparing the XTi to the D80, and apparently the nikon d80 is a better camera? is this true? and if it is, shouldnt i be going for it?

[dicktay]

Last year we had a 6 week vacation to USA/UK/Europe & Singapore. My wife took a Canon A700 P&S.
It it only took a week before she wanted to use my DSLR (350D (RebelXT) along with its walk around (travel) Lens: 17-85 IS.
Just set the ISO to 400 and put in program mode for daytime shots an ISO 1600 for night shots. The only stipulation was that I had to cary it most of the time. Only used the 75-300 (kit) lens for wildlife in Colorado & Wyoming. Did not use it at all once we left the USA.
You may find the 50mm F1.8 may come in handy. We didn't use it at all. Did not take a tripod. At times I wished I had a wide angle lens.
I now have a Tokina 12-24 and will be taking it next time we travel.
Vacation Pics are here: Night scenes are mainly London, & Goslar (Germany) & a few in Salzburg & Brusells.
The Singapore shots were taken with the A700.

http://www.poseruniverse.net/Holiday2006/Top2006.htm

Hope this helps.
Richard
(Sydney, Australia)

[dicktay]

Re: D80 ,
This is imortant - Go into a camera store to try both cameras so you can feel how they are to use, then make your decision. Both are very capable cameras, however if one doesn't feel good in your hands and to use then you will not use it. Also check the total $ cost of the sytem you may be buying into. When I purchased the 350D last year I compared it to a Nikon D50 and Olympus E300. I had trouble seeing through the Olympus (I wear glasses) viewfinder so that was out. I liked both the Nikon and the Canon. The deciding factors were (1) I all ready had a lot of compact flash cards (from a Fuji "bridge" camera) and the Canon was cheaper. I don't regret buying the twins lens Canon package for $AU1350 however I have now spent at least 3 times that amount on lenses. Canon 17-85 IS, Tokina 100mm F2.8 Macro, Tokina 12-24 Zoom, Canon 70-200 F4L (that came last monday & I love it)and finally a 18-200 Tamron Zoom for when I have to really travel light (overnight hiking trips etc). I can see a Canon 100-400 L Zoom on the horizon. I am now using my camera for a lot more than holiday snaps.
<smile>
Richard

[Rob612]

Ok everything has been said about the equipment and you made the right choice, a DSLR is the way to go and the XTi is an excellent machine. But very little about the country from a photo point of view. Since I live here, maybe a few words may help a little ;)

First, try to get the faster lens you can fit into your budget, when you get into a cathedral, church, some museums and other historical sites light can be a problem (it surely will be with a P&S unless you use a flash, and that's forbidden in a lot of places). So, the maximum aperture the higher, the better. I would say that a minimum of f/2.8 is required, better if you can have something arount 1,4/1,8.

Usually you will need more a wide that a tele, unless you want to go with details. Of course a mid telephoto can be really useful but I do believe that a shorter focal lenght wll be more useful. Probably on the XTi the 17-55 2.8 is your best choice, but I'm afraid is out of budget.

The rest depends mainly upond wich part of the country you are going to visit. If I can help, just ask, here or via PM (but probably going public can help someone else also) and I will do my best to help your way in this country.

[august23]

well rob let me just say im incredibly jealous of you. Rome is probably my favorite city in the world, and while most would disagree because they feel its a tourist town, I'm absolutely in love with it. I'll be in Rome most of the time, shooting nightlife such as the Coliseum, The monument of vittorio emanuele II, the basilica of course, amongst other sites. We'll also be traveling to Florence, Capri (not naples though, heard bad things about that city), and Venice is probably our last stop. I hope this helps you help me better know what lenses I should be looking for. And who knows, maybe we could even meet up!

oh and dicktay, great series at ur website. if those were taken with an XT, i have no question in my mind that all it really comes down to for choice is which one feels better in my hands. i think when it comes to the xti and the d80, its not what the camera does, its what the glass does, and canon has a much wider selection of glass.

[Box Brownie]

Best of luck, enjoy the camera and kit & of course the trip.

I look forward to seeing some of the images whe you post some here after the trip ;)

Oh this picture
http://www.1stdesignit.co.uk/a2tests/italy/web0515sml.jpg

Was taken with my since sold (to fund my 350D) Konica Minolta A2 - it was taken in the Duomo in Florence. Very slow shutter speed and the A2 has very good image stabilisation but even for this shot I was bracing myself against a pillar. :D

[dicktay]

August. Thanks for the compliment. Except for the ones where I am in them (Yellowstone/Grand Tetons mainly) and any you see of me with the Camera around my neck (my wife took those with her Canon A700 P&S) they were all with the 350D(Rebel XT).
Richard

[Rob612]

well rob let me just say im incredibly jealous of you. Rome is probably my favorite city in the world, and while most would disagree because they feel its a tourist town, I'm absolutely in love with it. I'll be in Rome most of the time, shooting nightlife such as the Coliseum, The monument of vittorio emanuele II, the basilica of course, amongst other sites. We'll also be traveling to Florence, Capri (not naples though, heard bad things about that city), and Venice is probably our last stop. I hope this helps you help me better know what lenses I should be looking for. And who knows, maybe we could even meet up!

As every big city, we do have our fair share of tourist traps, as well as NYC, Paris, London, Wien and every other big city I've ever visited, but basically Rome is NOT a tourist town. I mean, we do have a lot of tourism but AFAIK the tourism income on average is arount 10-15% of the whole. You don't really see it because we have no manufacturing companies, but there is a lot of tertiary (i.e. services) business in town.

Now, back to photography. If you plan to stay in rome, and do nightshots, be prepared to be around very late at night, because in those areas there is always a lot of crowd, cars etc, especially in the summer and you don't want that stuff in your pics :) The best time for nightshots is between 3 and 5 AM, but at that point - again as well as in any other big city - you should be careful hanging around with your equipment. The areas you are planning to shoot at night are very safe, but still that timing is vampire time :)

Regarding Naples: not really true. It is surely at a higher risk level compared to Rome, but if you avoid the bad areas (and you can be really sure that you will SEE them, its not difficult) and shooting at night it is a wonderful city and the people is very nice.

Lenses - I'll stand by what I'e already said. Stay on the wideangle side because that is what you will need the most. A mid tele can be nice for details. If you plan to do nightshots, bring a tripod, even a light one will be priceless.

I am always available for fellow POTNers that come to visit, so make sure to contact me when coming over, If I am in town, a cold one is on me ;) My email is on my website, as well as my mobile phone, please jot them down down somewhere before leaving and contact me, even if you need any assistance. This is of course valid for all the fellows around here.

oh and dicktay, great series at ur website. if those were taken with an XT, i have no question in my mind that all it really comes down to for choice is which one feels better in my hands. i think when it comes to the xti and the d80, its not what the camera does, its what the glass does, and canon has a much wider selection of glass.

Thanks. Yes, part of those pics were taken with the "old" XT, some with the 20D, and part with my actual equipment. Some of the nightshots were even taken with the crappy kit lens :)

[timmytimmytimmy]

Thanks for all the help guys. I slept on it, and I think I made the right choice....

I'm gettin myself an XTi!! :)


I was just thinking.. you were saying you are not into the whole photography thing - but the XTi might just change that!!!:)

[august23]

thanks for all the help rob! im looking forward to hopefully meeting up with you.

timmy, im not too sure, but you just might be right....i havent even BOUGHT the xti yet and im already reviewing a bunch of L glass. i finally understand all the numbers...theyre the range of focus.....i feel stupid now =p

[Rob612]

thanks for all the help rob! im looking forward to hopefully meeting up with you.


You're welcome.

[slappy sam]

august, a lot of people on this site bash the kit lens and the cheap lenses (and a large amount praise them as well) but don't start thinking you need L lenses. For right now, I urge you not to start seriously considering buying L glass. Wait until you get familiar with the camera and can make a smart decision on what focal length and aperture you need and whether or not you need other features like IS. I think you will probably want something like the Canon 10-22mm for landscapes (thats what I want for landscapes :D) but you should wait until you know.

[august23]

oh no no no i know! i wouldnt even consider buying a $1400 piece of L glass without any previous training. i heard from some guy in another forum an ultra wide angle like the 10-22mm wouldnt work on my xti due to the 1.6 crop factor. is this true?