Car Racing shoots.

[Ferdinand]

Hello, I have seen a lot of great car racing photos being shot here. And I am totally new at shooting car races. I just bought my 10D a couple of days ago, after selling my Digital Rebel, the only lens I have now is just a cheap standard 28-80mm f3.5-5.6, 50mm f1.8 and 75-300mm f4-5.6

So it looks like I will probably have to maybe rent a good lens for races for now.

Could you recommend:

1) Good non L lens.

2) Good L lens.

And as far as tripod goes, would the Gitzo 2220 be alright or would you recommend a monopod?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Many thanks.

Regards,
Ferdinand

[Cadwell]

Good "L" lens... a lot of people like the Canon EF 4.5-5.6 100-400mm USM L IS for motorsport.

Good non-"L" lens... I like the Sigma AF 2.8 120-300mm EX HSM with 1.4x TC if extra reach is required. It allows me to keep a high shutter speed in low light.

Monopod - definately. A tripod is too restrictive, you can't react fast enough to the action.

[Ferdinand]

Cheers Cadwell,

By the way would my 50mm f1.8 be alright for pit actions if I am able to get right down there?

Any good beginner monopod what you might recommend? Ta.

Regards,
Ferdinand.

[Cadwell]

By the way would my 50mm f1.8 be alright for pit actions if I am able to get right down there?

Any good beginner monopod what you might recommend? Ta.

Regards,
Ferdinand.

You might want to consider something wider than a 50mm. Pit lane walkabouts can be a bit of a scrum and the only way to get a decent shot of a car sometimes is to get up close (otherwise people keep wandering in front of you). I use a 17-40mm F/4.0L in the pits and paddock.

Any reputable monopod will do... just make sure you get something that is capable of handling the weight of the camera plus a large-ish telephoto. There are some very flimsy monopods out there...

[Ferdinand]

Cadwell thanks for the quick response. So for pit condition would the Tamron 28-75mm DI XR work? I am a beginner on a budget :(

Regards,
Ferdinand

[Cadwell]

Cadwell thanks for the quick response. So for pit condition would the Tamron 28-75mm DI XR work? I am a beginner on a budget :(

Regards,
Ferdinand

Sure it'll work :) The only issue is that the further away from the car you have to stand, the more chance you have of some annoying little berk wandering in front of you just as you take the shot. The good thing about digital, of course, is that you can erase that picture and take another one... ;) It is still annoying though. :evil:

[Ferdinand]

Thanks Cadwell, photography is such a nice hobby, but for a beginner on a budget, every decision on lens and equipment is like a life and death decision arrgghh... I would love to stick with Canon lenses all the way but cost is just shifting me more and more towards 3rd party lenses. :(

Regards,
Ferdinand

[IndyJeff]

Ferdiand may I suggets unless you are using a "fruit can" lens forget about the monopod. The only thing it is good for in racing is leaning on and helping to hold a bigass lens about halfway thru the day.

As far as action shots, depending on how close you can get, anything that will fall in the 100-300 4.5/5.6 range should do. A 400 fixed might be way to tight. I have used a 400 fixed but the only time I use it is when a driver has crashed and is getting out of the car. Brings me a tad bit closer than the 75-300 I normally use. (Arie Luyendyke waving to the crowd 1999 Indy 500 AP wire)

You asked about pit action, what kind of race is this? If it is a major series you can forget pit shots unless your credentialed, and then you must have a HOT designated credential. If this is a series where they are doing pit stops, may I suggest you stay out of the pits during the race. Two reasons I say this,
1. It is dangerous as hell and if you haven't been around racing enough you could cause yourself or others great injury.
2. If your just out there shooting for fun, there are guys who will be working covering the pit action and they don't take kindly to "hobbists" trying to get in to capture a shot for the wall.
If you disregard my warnings then be advised...keep alert at what is going on around you at all times. If you see someone running, do so yourself. If you are standing there and someone knocks you flat on your ass and runs you over, catch up to him and thank him for possibly saving your life. If you get in someone's way say. like a pit crew member, be ready for a tongue lashing if he finds you later. It surely will come.

If you are in a turn near an inside wall or fence and a car is crashing and coming at you, forget the picture, run up track parallel to the wall as fast as your feets will take you.

Not trying to be a wise guy here but it is a sore spot with me and I would not like to see you get a tongue lashing that I have seen bestowed upon other guys trying to further their hobby portfolio.

[Mark Kemp]

Pretty good advice, I would agree with all of it.

Just a couple of observations -

1)For a non L lens - you have the Canon 75 - 300 already - its not nearly as good as the 100 - 400, but you can still get a pretty fair picture with it and it will certainly do for a few races until you get a better feel for what you really need.

2)The 100 - 400 and similar lenses are very heavy. You will need a monopod or arms like Arnie. But my 100 400 was too heavy for my old Cobra monopod and I found myself bending lower and lower as the races progressed. Eventually I had to raise it up again or all I would get was the tyre wall! Forunately decent monopods such as Manfrotto etc. are not too expensive.

So my advice - hold off on the new lens for a while but buy a really good monopod in preparation for having better lenses.

Also echoing Jeff's advice work out where a car that is out of control will likely go and don't stand there!

[Ferdinand]

Hello Jeff,

Thanks for the sound advice. Its going to be one of the races at Laguna Seca.

So lens wise you reckon the 75-300mm I have would do for starters? Especially when the weather is good and I get plenty of light.

Now if a pit opportunity arises, what are the photo ethicate that one must follow? For example, do you take turn shooting? I mean there is no sense in everyone crowding in front of everyone else right? I mean is there some sort of photographer's rule when it comes to taking turn at getting a shot? Or is there a unspoken rule that you are only allow a certain amount of time getting the shot taken and then moving out of the way to give others a chance at it? Any more info on what to do and not to do at a race would be much appreciated.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your input, and I can definately see the point in just using my current 75-300mm for now until I get a few of what I need and what I don't need at a race.

From what I gather from Jeff, all a monopod does is act as a support, it doesn't really give you the option of going hands off and keeping the vibration to a minimum, so perhaps a tripod would be a better investment?

Regards,
Ferdinand.

[KennyG]

From what I gather from Jeff, all a monopod does is act as a support, it doesn't really give you the option of going hands off and keeping the vibration to a minimum, so perhaps a tripod would be a better investment?

Regards,
Ferdinand.

To be honest, unless you are using a big heavy lens, forget about supports altogether, they are too restrictive. I only use a monopod with my 300 or 500 primes. Even the 100-400L (favourite of motorsport photogs) can be easily hand-held all day, so you are only talking about the really heavy stuff needing a support.

Use your 75-300 hand-held for now, until you feel that it is limiting your shooting and then look for something with a longer reach. Avoid high shutter speeds, learn to pan, check earlier posts here on camera settings and don't expect miracles first time out.

Rule one - the officials are always right. You must follow all their instructions.

Rule two - in the pit lane think of yourself as an unwanted guest and keep out of everyone's way unless it is open to public access.

Rule three - no shot is worth putting anyone's life at risk. Safety must come way before the photography.

This shot was taken at 300mm, 1/350, hand-held, 10D, 100-400L, ISO400. No IS or any other aids. Keep it simple....

http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/btcc-100-web.jpg

[dn7elson]

Kenny,

Great photo and advice, as usual.

[defordphoto]

What series are you planning to shoot at Laguna, Ferdinand?

That used to be my home track. I know that place well, but haven't been there since '96.

Anyway, you have some good advice. If you have never shot motorsports before, don't expect to get killer shots from the stands. You really need credentials to hit the hot spots, and the hot pits. They don't just let anyone with a camera over the wall, though sometimes you wonder with some of the bozo's you meet out there that have the common sense of a hammer.

Best way to get into it is to have someone experienced take you under their wing, introduce you to the regulars, and then teach you how not to make a fool of yourself.

As cool as it may seem to be out there, it is very, very dangerous and if a photographer ever tells you they have never been scared before, they're lying.

As you see we have some very experienced folks here who shoot all kinds of different motorports on a regular basis. You'll get some pretty awesome advice here.

[Tom W]

Good, informative thread.

It seems that things are a little different than they were in the older days. I'm itching to take a few shots at some racing as well, but I'm probably destined to find the local dirt oval and work with the minor leagues for a while first - from what I've read here and elsewhere, its just not possible for most people to get a good vantage point for any major racing action.

I already figured that major tracks like Indy and any NASCAR event were pretty-much closed to amateur photogs, but I'm kind-of hoping to get close enough to get some decent action.

Jim, thanks for the good advice. As one that used to attend street races regularly as a youth (and not a very bright one at times either), I know that things can happen real fast out there even in straight-line racing. Turns add to the "excitement".

[defordphoto]

You should be able to get decent access to the local tracks for local events. You just need to get hooked up with the right people. Once they see your equipment they'll know you're pretty serious and they (normally) love all the attention they can get.

[Ferdinand]

Hello Kenny, thanks for the input. I will definitely keep all your advice in mind when I go out there.

Jim, the Sports Car Invitation starts end of April. But I heard you can go shoot during training, so I might take that opportunity to get a few practice shots in. As for the main event, I will need to wait and see what a friend of mine can do as far as getting me in.

Getting someone who has experience to guide me along, well, all I have is your guys :) Don't really know anyone else in RL.

And as far as equipment giving the first impression goes, I am SOL. Hope my 75-300mm f4-5.6 will look scary enough :( That is why I ask about lenses earlier in my posts. But I do see the logic in using what I have now and get to know my own shooting style and what I need before going for the expensive lenses. So till then I hope I won't be the joke of the day at the track. There is certainly a lot of pressure for serious amatuer on a budget!

Until the races, keep em lessons coming, I really appreciate your help and your time here.

Regards,
Ferdinand.

[IndyJeff]

They don't just let anyone with a camera over the wall, though sometimes you wonder with some of the bozo's you meet out there that have the common sense of a hammer.

LMAO I think I met that guy once. Should have been dumber than a sack full of hammers tho.

Ferdinand if you want to show some shots around to someone who might hire you, shoot at 8.0 1/1000, if conditions will allow it. If you get a chance to shoot for AP at Indy that is the first thing they tell you. Clean background, clean foreground, stopped action on crashes some motion in tires is acceptable. All the panning shots are fine but, if you want to sell a shot to a news outlet, it has to be clean.
As far as a monopod goes, unless you are shooting a 500 4.0, 600 4.0 or 1200 5.6 you will not need a monopod. I am not sure if you can even take a monopod in the pits. If you can't lug your 75-300 around all day then forget about it right now. If you can't hack that, you will never make it thru the day just standing and doing the walking that comes with motorsports photography. A monopod isn't going to help with your feet. I can't remember a day at the track I wasn't damn near limping by the time I got home or back to the hotel. My feet felt like they had been beaten on the bottom with a flat board by a Turkish prison guard. And don't anyone tell me about Dr. Scholls, I personally paid for his golf clubs by now I am sure.


Let me give you an example of my Indy 500 race day schedule. Get your gear together about 7pm, socialize with out of town shooters until 10 or so. Grab a nap. Load up at 2:30. Go in the track 3am. Sit around and have a beer or two and chat with some other guys. Go to bed in the back of the van (get an air mattress, worth every dime) about 4am. Wake up when the cannon goes off at 5am. Go back to sleep, wake up about 8am. You have now had your 4 hours sleep, roughly. Get some breakfast after walking about 1/2 mile to the media tower. Hang around and talk some more with other guys and then have a 9am meeting. This is where they tell you, be in focus, 8.0 1/1000 at 400 if conditions allow it otherwise fastest shutter speed you can get at 8.0 nothing below 350, have your envelope filled out with your name etc before the race begins, make sure you know who the runner is for your turn, get your film to him ASAP THIS AIN"T NO WEEKLY, if you don't have to walk to talk to the AP guy closest to you you are to close together, clean shots, watch your backgrounds, be careful and keep your head up. Then you take a walk thru the garage, shoot a few frames or 30 then move to the pits. Now at about 10:15 they begin to clear the pits of all none HOT PIT passes. Walk back to the turn another 1/2 mile. Walk thru the restricted gate to your spot another 1/4 mile. Sit around and wait for the 11am start. Stand and watch, get spooked by a push here and there, see a crash shoot it, load new card pass old card off to runner. Race ends about 2:30, have a little something to eat and a lot to drink, usually water maybe a beer. Walk another 1/2 mile to AP office. Wait around to see who's shot they used of the crash in your turn and pick up your card. Now walk back to your vehicle another 1/2 mile. It is now about 5pm. Have another beer, still thirsty drink the rest of your water supply. You now have drank about 3-5 liters of water for the day. 6-6:15pm load up and leave the track head to the house 2 miles due west. Of course traffic is a bear so you can't go where you want to go, the 2 mile trip is now about a 8 mile trip and you get home about 7:30. Limp in the house, soak feet in massager my mom got me for Christmas (Thanks mom I love you). You want a beer but that just makes you thirstier so you have a extra large glass of sweettea and a sammich while you soak feet for 20 minutes. Watch the replay of the race, which is now on about lap 90, well at least about 20-25 laps of it. I think my record is somewhere in the 60's. Fall asleep in the chair, wake up around 3am and go to bed. Alarm goes off at 7:30. Get up grab gear and go back to the track for winner's pics. Get a spot and stand waiting. Driver should arrive at 9am, usually gets there about 15-20 minutes late. Driver puts on a hat, look left...right...center now with crew. New hat left...right....center now without crew, new hat etc etc etc. This goes on for 1-1 1/2 hours. Of course you have some clod with a PS that keeps moving in front of your view so he can get a shot of the winner and the car. And when he is done there is another one to try and squeeze thru to get his shot. I don't know where these guys come from but, they are with a sponsor or someone and not much you can do about it except grin and bear it.

So now you still want to shoot race cars? Hell why do I?...well I LOVE IT.


One last tip and then I will end this ebook....never I repeat NEVER sit down in a restricted area while the track is hot (the green light is on) and never turn your back on the track while cars are going by.

The END

Now you can clap or boo or throw stuff at the screen LOL

[Tom W]

Jeff, that sounds a lot like my Indy experiences, except we had more beer and no cameras. Indy is a fun race, and the whole weekend is a party if one cares to attend. I have in the past, though I've kind-of outgrown the all-night thing. :)

[5 Type]

IndyJeff, is there anywhere where we can see your work?

[Ferdinand]

Thanks for sharing Jeff, all I can say is WOW! That is some great insight there. How did you manage to get to shoot for AP? Also I assume it will be all in RAW and their guys would post process it once you are done? Just asking since most of the time I shoot in Adobe RGB and they are far from clear and crispy without post processing.

And so far from what I can tell I think I can put up with most of the things that is required of a photographer, except maybe the part where I will have to keep drinking beer hehehhee :wink:

Regards,
Ferdinand

[Andy_T]

And as far as equipment giving the first impression goes, I am SOL. Hope my 75-300mm f4-5.6 will look scary enough :( That is why I ask about lenses earlier in my posts.

Ey, ferdinand, no problem at all!

This is what you could upgrade to easily ... all you need is some red paint to put a ring on it :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=208272&is=REG

Best regards,
Andy

[Ferdinand]

Andy, if I did that I will probably be a bigger joke :P no thanks!

Just out of curiousity, is there any review on that lens? What is the quality of the optics like? :)

Regards,
Ferdinand

[CoolToolGuy]

I had credentials for a few years at the USGP at Watkins Glen. Thankfully, they were for Toyota (sponsor), who had a narrow focus of what they wanted. :wink:

I can easily imagine the grueling schedule that Jeff describes, and I can appreciate how that is hard work. Working at what you love can make the effort worthwhile. :D

There are several tracks that still provide opportunities to get decent pictures. Summit Point in West Virginia is one.
http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/
They have SCCA sports cars, motorcycles, vintage races, Karts, and a 12 hour endurance (sports car) race. The admission is not too far out of whack, and the vantage points are pretty good for spectators as well as photographers. This will be my first year shooting in digital and I am interested in finding out how much lens I will need when I am behind the fences - I don't want to spring for the 100-400 unless it will be enough. :?

The crowds are not overwhelming, so you can usually see pretty well, and access to the cars once they are off the track is very good. :D

I'm sure there are other regional circuits like this in the USA, so if you want to shoot race cars, look for an SCCA race in your area. You probably won't see the race on TV, but you can have a good time and get some good shots. 8)

And if you can get to Summit Point, PM me. I may be going, and perhaps we can hook up. 8)

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Mark Kemp]

Interesting - obviously it makes a big difference whether you are an amateur or a professional and also US or UK based.

As an amateur my schedule is not nearly so hard, and while I could handhold the 100 - 400 all day I am not used to it and will use a monopod at least part time, purely for the weight, it doesnt do much for the stability.

I have seen people trying to use a tripod at races, never sure why, I think they have old manual focus cameras, pre focus a spot on the track and try to hit the shutter as a car comes by!!! By the way it is poor ettiquette to laugh at these people :)

Pits in the UK are not worth it as an amateur -- you either can't get in at all or only when nothing is happening anyway and pit passes always cost.

A good idea for an amateur or aspiring pro (so I hear) is to go to lower formulas, motorcycle trials, rallies and scrambles and amateur events, where access is better. But you really do need to pay more attention to your safety as there a fewer barriers, marshalls etc.

If you are only interested in an amateur sense - stay in the public areas and look for the best places to shoot from but you may never get the really good shots the pros do. Just enjoy the race and the photography.

If you want to be a pro - some of the other guys here will give you better advice.

[IndyJeff]

Tom W, your not too old. Your body just finally made your brain realize that partying all day and night takes 2 days to recover and add one if you have more than an hours drive home. Mine did it about 7 years ago LOL.

Ferdi, I started with UPI as a stringer. Basically they were issued a certain number of credentials and if they weren't all used, they would get less the next time. I knew a guy who knew a guy who ran the show for UPI at Indy and I had a decent SLR. Spent 3 years with them, also covered the dedication of the USS Indianapolis Memorial for them. Then in the 4th year, 1997, the Indy 500 was rained out on Sunday and Monday. They ran the race on Tuesday and while at the AP office with some friends who shoot for AP, the AP photo chief asked who I was shooting for. I told him UPI but it is 1 hour before the green flag and their office is locked up tight. I asked if he needed help and he said yes if I would go from turn 1 to turn 3. Hell 3 was where all my buddies were anyway. Since then I have been with AP and plan on staying there for the 500 and Brickyard 400. The rest of the year I freelance. I have just started a website this year and hope it will bring in a few new clients. Ecept for Indy last year I went to 3 other tracks and shot for 3 different teams and one of the tracks. I haven't made up my mind whether to accept the track photographers position at Kentucky Speedway or not. They would want me down there for all four of their main events and I can't commit to that, at least one of them I can't. The pay isn't bad but by the time I figure in travel and food expense, it doesn't leave much on an hourly rate.
So far my website has helped me land one new client and I still have two teams I will be providing shots for. You can check out my site atRacing Photography (http://racing-action-images.com/4436.html)
All the images on the crash page are film scans except for the last one. That one is digital and the IRL used those images to study the crash and what happened to the car during the crash, for safety improvement research. Images 1 was a UPI wire photo, 6 & 7 were AP wire photos.
Be sure to check back around the month of May as I will be out there everyday and will be updating regularly. Right now I don't have many shots up. I took page 2 pictures down because the file sizes were too small and didn't look good enough to me. I may add more this week or next.
I have had 4 inquires about shooting USAC cars for teams from hits on the site. So far they can't afford me. They want it done for damn near nothing and my days of shooting for nothing are over. LOL One guy said if you shoot our team at IRP this year I will get you a pit pass. I told him I can drive over to IRP and get a full access pass any day I want one, besides I have been in the pits and once you have been there it's not such a big deal. This year I am treating it like a business, not a hobby.

If you were to ask me how can I get into this business, this is what I would tell you....first off the glory days of freelancing in motorsports is about gone, thanks to Getty and WireImage undercutting freelancers rates, because it will take you at least 3 years to get established and recognized. If you said you still want to my advice would be to go to a local track, buy a pit pass and walk around. Look for a team that is NOT well funded. Ask them if they have anyone doing pictures for them. Tell them that you are just starting out and would provide images in exchange for credentials. Then do some shots of them, make them tight, clean backgrounds no billboards or advertising. Make them a poster size shot and give it to them at the next race. They will no doubt show it around and you might pick up a few new clients that way. Try to find a speed filter and work with it (the lead pic at the bottom of my site is done with a speed filter). The reason I say this is, you go out and shoot a couple of cards full and go home edit and get good quality prints made. Next week you back to the track and find the drivers of the cars you shot. You present them with a really nice 8x10 that you are so proud of and you just know they will love it. They take one look and say "Good shot, that looks just like the other 150 pics that people have given me so far this season." He is not being a smart ass, it is just the fact that every guy with a camera shoots the same shot different location on the track and thinks the driver will buy his. Every week someone comes up to a driver and shows hima picture just like a guy did 20 minutes before you did. Crash shots being the exception. If it is his first season, you might be able to sell him an 8x10 for $10, if he has enough change in his car's ashtray. New guys are always an easier sell than the front runners, keep that in mind. Now if you go in with a shot using the speed filter, chances are they haven't seen that kind of shot before and will say "Wow, how did you do that? That is a cool shot. How much do you want for it?" $15 bucks would be a good price, remember you want to make money over time not all at once off one guy. He will no doubt show it off to other drivers so make sure you hand him a card and have your info stamped on the back of the print because he will lose your card. Also don't use some cheap do it at home card stock. Spend $20 and get some real cards printed up. Show professionalism and they will see it too. Nothing says amature like a homemade business card.

Well there's the bell, class is out for a while LOL I really hope I can be of help with anyone here who wants to pursue this profession a little more. If you have specific question feel free to email me at jeffb@ racing-action-images.com One thing you will find about this business, it can be cut throat as hell but, there are some nice guys out there who will help you out with advice every now and then.

[IndyJeff]

Ferdi we have a May 8th meeting at IMS AP office. This is the first year that it will be all digital so they want to go over with us the settings we use etc. I can't imagine they want us to shoot RAW tho, last year Large/Fine jpg was what we shot. There is a big push to get the shot out over the wire ASAP. I can't imagine they would want to have to deal with RAW conversion plus, RAW really eats up a card and it is a slower buffer. They want as many shots as possible.

About Summit Point, I think the WERA bikes still run there. Motorsports Photo, a member here is a rider as well as doing photos. You might check with him as to who to talk to. The last year we shot WERA we went thru the national office in Atlanta and I think the contacts name was Nan. Not 100% on that but they do have a website you cn check on.

[CoolToolGuy]

From what I gather from Jeff, all a monopod does is act as a support, it doesn't really give you the option of going hands off and keeping the vibration to a minimum, so perhaps a tripod would be a better investment?

Regards,
Ferdinand.

The tripod can (emphasize can) work if you want to set up in one place and stay there for a while. But moving it and setting it up again at an event with a lot of spectators can be challenging. Collapse the legs, fold the tripod, move to a new location, find a place to set it up, unfold, .... :?

I think a monopod is a better choice, but as Jeff suggests, it may be impractical or impossible to use in the pits. :(

Handheld is the most mobile solution, and you can get up and down to get the angles you want. If you need a way to steady the camera, but a monopod is not it, you may want to think about a chainpod.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25765

I have used one for over 20 years, and it is a great thing to have in your bag. I have taken it into the pits at Watkins Glen amidst huge crowds and used it without any problems or complaints. It traveled with me to the Nurburgring when I could not carry a lot of luggage. And, in any kind of crowd (like around the winner's circle) it enables you to put the camera above the crowd and keep it steady. :wink:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Ferdinand]

Rick, Mark and Jeff,

Thanks for the continuous input, its always fun to learn about something new everyday. This page is definitely worth getting bookmarked :)

I have a fulltime job working as an engineer and was thinking that some day I might be able to turn this money sucking hobby into something that will at least help me break even on getting new lenses or even make a little money. Even so I would like to let you guys know that I really appreciate knowledge that you guys are imparting to me and everyone here and that its not going to waste.

Now at least I have an idea on where to start and what to do on a race track and what to do with the photos I generated and such. Now a quick question on the Speed filter, what would you need besides the filter? From my searching around, there is also a holder that one might need? So for my 10D, my quess would be that I will need a holder and the speed filter, would that be all? B&H sells the Series A holder and the Super Speed filter, now would that be all that I need to get started?

With shooting in Large/Fine JPEG, are there any regrets at not being able to post process without any lost in quality? If the information learn in the May 8th meeting at IMS AP office is not confidential, perhaps you can setup a section on your page on shooting requirements for AP? Or perhaps a set of "industry standard" of some kind. And with the JPEG you shoot, what would be the optimum parameter setting on a 10D.

This is off topic, I don't seem to be able to find the 10D Finisher action for download any where on the net, it seems that the originating site is down, and has been down since last week. Does anyone know of an alternate mirror site?

Also I have never shoot racing before, hence I don't have any on my website (http://photos.thefongfamily.com), but I do have others that I have been working on since I got my first digital SLR back in November last year. Any comment would be much appreciated.

And Rick, a chainpod, now THAT is something new to me :) Fancy that it has been around for 20 years or more? Reading about it now.

>>>ok done, WOW, the Chain Pod, so simple its AMAZING!<<< Do you have any trouble taking it thru security at games, sports function and other events?

Regards,
Ferdinand

[KennyG]

Pits in the UK are not worth it as an amateur -- you either can't get in at all or only when nothing is happening anyway and pit passes always cost.

A good idea for an amateur or aspiring pro (so I hear) is to go to lower formulas,

Mark, I am one of the accredited lucky ones that can get into the pits, but there are opportunities for anyone at the right races. The UK is starting to catch up to the US with the concept that drivers should be accessible to their fans. The BTCC is one event where this is working well and access pre-race is free. Also, the grid girls will pose for you if you ask them nicely.

Forget the GP, if you are not one of the VIP's or a sponsor, you have little or no chance of getting anywhere interesting. I have been lucky enough on a couple of years recently to get sponsor's VIP treatment, including lunch with drivers and getting into the pit garage on qualifying day. I was told afterwards that this cost the sponsor in the region of £2,500 ($4,500), well beyond the reach of mere mortals. The teams are hyper-sensitive about what you photograph in the garages by the way, just in case any settings can be identified by the opposition.

Don't forget the paddock where you can freely walk around, talk to drivers, team members and take all the pictures you want before the cars are assembled for a race. A lot of the teams will go the extra mile and let you take team and driver portraits, as well as interesting shots of the cars. It is a good way of getting to know what goes on behind the scenes. I'll always give time to photogs, pro or amateur, when I am racing, but maybe I'm biased.

Club events run by the BRSCC or BARC are great photog hunting grounds. Series like the VW Cup, T Cars, JEC, Lotus, AMOC, etc. are large club events well worth following,. They provide as much entertainment and photo opportunities as the bigger headline series, sometimes more. It is a great place to learn your craft so you don't make rookie mistakes at main events.

A lot of the smaller teams will appreciate any good photographs you take of them, on and off track, and will pay you for them too. Make sure you have good notes of the teams, cars and drivers so you know where to send samples to. This will help you get established.

You have to get to know the staff at the circuits. Getting the cherished accreditation is often a case of personal contacts and you need to be seen by them as not just keen, but professional as well.

Don't be afraid to talk to the pros. Try not to ask what settings you should be using as it won't impress, but ask advice on things like the best place to stand without getting in their way, they like that. You need to earn their respect as chances are you will be working along side them at quite a few meetings. Remember, most of them are there to make a living and they don't appreciate tripping over rookies.

UK photogs should also take note that UK circuits require you to have public liability insurance to work trackside. Most camera insurance companies, such as E&L or PhotoGuard will arrange this as part of your cover. You can be turned back at sign-on if you do not have your certificate with you (Brands is pretty tough in this respect).

An often overlooked point by people aspiring to become motorsport photogs, is what do you intend to do with the shots you take. Do you have an outlet for your work? Is it purely for your own enjoyment? If you intend to sell your work then think about the how and where now and don't leave it too late. This is a whole different subject area and may require another thread.

Oh, to lighten things up, did I mention grid girls at the start? For the UK boys, these are Rob's Angels (Rob Collard) who follow him around the BTCC (along with his wife :roll: ). Taken on a pit lane walkabout.

http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/collard-angels.jpg

[IndyJeff]

Ferdi I like your gallery. Nice shots in there. I noticed in the volley ball shot the focus is on the girl in the center. In the actual print is the background soft? If so that is what photo editors look for in sports action photograhy. Don't ask me why but in racing they want clean sharp backgrounds, now if it is basketball, the subject should be sharp and the background out of focus to bring emphasis on the main subject. Ever notice a baseball game shot of a batter? A lot of times if crowds can be seen in the background, they are soft and almost unidentifiable but still you know it is people.
When shooting sports be very aware of your backgrounds. At the track they want as liitle of the crowd as possible, if there is no crowd such as on a practice day try not to show empty stands. Notice the John Paul shot on my site's crash page, bottom of stands only. No way to tell if there is 2 people or 20,000 seeing the crash.

I don't think there is much post processing going on, if it needs work chances are they will pass it by and look for something better. Now if it is a little soft, they may mark it and look for a better shot and if that is the best of the bunch they will work on it.
As far as passing on info from the meeting, I doubt that I can get very specific but, I can give some general tips. I don't think they would want another agency finding out what setings they are asking us to use.
This year should be interesting to say the least. Last year we had 15 guys in 3 from AP alone. Of those 15 I think 4 others are going digital, which is fine because that means a greater chance of getting a transmission but, it puts more pressure on each of us not to miss anything.
The holder and SSpeed filter would be all you would need.
I think you or someone asked about ettiquette [sic] at the track. Mainly don't block anyone else's view. Stake a claim to your ground but be courteous of others claims too. Don't turn your back on the track when it is hot, don't sit down. Maybe the best thing to do is when you get there, sit in the stands and watch what the other photographers do for an hour or so. Oh one last tip, never, I repeat never ever walk in front of an ambulance or safety truck while the green light is out. Always walk behind and if that is not possible, don't go there, stay where you are. Saftey trucks pull out as soon as the "yellow, yellow, yellow" sounds in the headset. The driver looks at the crash to see where he wants to put his vehicle, the front passenger is watching the track for incoming traffic, the guys in the back won't see you until they feel your body bump under the rear wheels and see you laying in a heap behind their truck as it speeds off. Hopefully the ambulance will see you before it runs you over too, on it's way out LOL.

[CoolToolGuy]

Rick, Mark and Jeff,

Thanks for the continuous input, its always fun to learn about something new everyday. This page is definitely worth getting bookmarked :)

And Rick, a chainpod, now THAT is something new to me :) Fancy that it has been around for 20 years or more? Reading about it now.

>>>ok done, WOW, the Chain Pod, so simple its AMAZING!<<< Do you have any trouble taking it thru security at games, sports function and other events?

Regards,
Ferdinand

I got the idea from one of the photo magazines at the time. I use a lighter chain than the one in the thread, and that lets me store it in a plastic prescription bottle (which is quite beat up after all this time). I keep it in the gadget bag and it seems to be a non-issue when traveling. I brought it to work one day last month to show it to someone, and it went through the X-Ray machine (Government facilities, sheesh) without a problem. Even if they ask about it, you can pop it out of the bottle easily enough and show them what it is. :wink:

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[Ferdinand]

Many thanks all, gonna check back here when it gets closer to race time, which is end of 30 April to 2 May.

Regards,
Ferdinand