A rumour with some substance - Annie Leibowitz

[radiohead]

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/01/latest-from-rumor-mill.html

A poster with the handle JTFOTO who claimed to have recently served as 5th assistant to Annie Leibovitz had this to say on the L-L forums on Friday:

"She has been shooting all her editorial work with Canon 1Ds MII bodies. These have been major jobs for Vanity Fair and various other mags and recently went on a major Ad job that will be worldwide. The TomKat cover was all Canon and the last two or three editorials were all Canon. The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design. It won't be out before Phot Show East."

So there you have it, the latest uber-kam rumor, from the horse's mouth to the next horse to the next horse and then on to your ear. "Phot Show East" refers to the PhotoPlus Expo 2007, slated to be held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in Manhattan on October 18–20, 2007. "The TomKat cover" refers to the recent, um, Leibovitz "homage" to Linda McCartney on the cover of Vanity Fair.

[EORI]

As others have stated in other threads, if going to a 22mp camera means rendering the current EF-L lenses obsolete (either because of a new mount or because the IQ suffers), then I can finally close my wallet to the endless upgrades. At that point, Canon will presumably break down their SLR lineup into 3 categories: EFS, EF, and EF? I still have FD-mount cameras and lenses in my closet, and I don't expect to switch again during the rest of my lifetime.

[ipacmm]

I hope they do not switch mounts, that would really make me reconsider buying a Mark III with the money I have invested into the EF lenses. If that were to happen, I think I would just pick up a 1Ds Mark II & 1D Mark II N.

[buddy4344]

If you have 22mb, all you need is a quality "kit lens" with that resolution, the shots you currently shoot with a 400mm are merely a digital post processing zoom and crop away. :)

[SunTsu]

Just my luck if they come out with a new lens mount. I wouldn't mind so much if they came out with a new 5D body because I was expecting that, but if they come out with a new lens mount, it makes my brand new $5,000 investment in body, lenses, etc, obsolete. That would make me cry.

[cdesperado]

Hmmmm. Interesting. Too bad the fifth assistant didn't think to take a picture of Annie with said camera. But assuming this is true....

If (and I mean, "if") Canon's newest generation of cameras are going to continue to go towards Full Frame and higher mp, then having a "special" lens line might make sense, but I don't know enough about lens mount engineering to understand why a new mount (EF-x?) would be required to improve the overall quality of the lens.

[JX]

I don’t know about this rumor. It just seems a bit strange. For the past three years, I have enjoyed the little guessing games we have twice a year trying to figure out Canon’s next move.

On the other hand, if Canon does want to get in the medium format area as other rumors have suggested, it makes you wonder.

[ipacmm]

Also, how would they be able to make the camera 50% smaller? It would seem really compact for a 1-series body...

[liza]

I don’t know about this rumor. It just seems a bit strange. For the past three years, I have enjoyed the little guessing games we have twice a year trying to figure out Canon’s next move.


I'm always disappointed by what Canon releases after reading all the great ideas in the rumor thread. :(

[cdesperado]

Everything is conjecture at this point, but I keep asking myself why Canon executives would feel the need to establish themselves in the medium format market.

I spent a little time tonight trying to find who Canon acquired and when, but haven't found anything yet. Does anyone have something specific about this?

[ScottE]

What changes would be necessary to an EOS EF lens mount to make it work better with a full frame digital sensor? The current lens appears to have all the electronic contacts that it needs. If that is the case, the only likely changes would be to either make the lens mount wider or to move the lens further from the sensor plane.

Either a longer or wider lens mount could enable a less acute angle of incidence of light at the corner of the frame. That would be like saying Nikon was right all along about the best digital sensor size for a 35 mm film based lens system and Canon has to move the lens further away to achieve the same results with full frame.

Please excuse me if I'm skeptical of this rumor.

[pcasciola]

At half the size of the 1Ds Mk II, it's likely a small sensor. Maybe even smaller than APS-C. That would require some high end optics to resolve 22MP.

[JX]

Liza wrote:

I'm always disappointed by what Canon releases after reading all the great ideas in the rumor thread. :sad:


me too

[atruesteelersfan]

Liza wrote:


me too

This thread just ruined my weekend. IT BETTER NOT BE TRUE!:mad:

[BradT0517]

It might be possible for them to go into MF and produce an entire new line of lens made just for it. Something like an EOS MF mount including items such as the 70-200 2.8 or a 300 f2.8. Just imagine the size of those since they would have a larger end, meaning a larger front, meaning more glass, meaning more weight.

[Juan Zas]

Still I have not clear the rumor about Canon has to make a new EF mount and lenses to resolve properly for the "new" 22 Mp cameras. May be we are mixing rumors and things. I can not imagine that going from 16 Mp to 22 Mp over a 24x36 mm sensor has to imply the redesign of the mount and create new lenses, specially when lenses are "analog" or discrete devices. A good glass should be enough to get good images, mainly if before where used over film, that many times are compared and said that still has "more definition" than digital ones, specially with larger print outs !!

I think the new mount and redesign of the EF mount it would have more sense if we are speaking about a new MF format camera, then is more clear.

[tiha]

Also, how would they be able to make the camera 50% smaller? It would seem really compact for a 1-series body...
Maybe detachable grip (like on film EOS 1)?

[shiato storm]

redesign the mount? they're joking right?
after canon's proud announcement of how many millions of lenses they've sold (was it 30 mil.?) and to go change the mount just over a year later...? smart thinking that man.

[AdamJL]

I rather doubt this rumour... replacing the lens mount? The tried and tested and well proven EF mount? Unlikely. Two mounts is enough for now I think.

EDIT: heh, just saw the post above me...
What he said.

[marlinspike]

There would be no reason to change the lens mount to be able to resolve at a higher resolution. They changed the mount once to add AF, but for extra resolving power of the glass nothing needs to change. In fact, there would be nothing "may" about making a new lens mount since it's one of those things where either you have to have a different mount or you don't (the only thing I could think of that would demand a new one would be if they changed the distance between the mount and the sensor, but even that I think would be correctable with a calibration to the lens).

Also, look at the Zeiss ZF 50 1.4. That resolves PLENTY and it is also built on a mount that can be adapted to fit on an EF mount.

[cdesperado]

Just to share this with everyone... the op that started this whole Annie thing has posted again. (This started with posts scraped from Luminous Landscape".) The op has basically been grilled then posted this message yesterday.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the original thread:
To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.

To the few that didn't mind my news. Thank you

I didn't get to hold the thing, I didn't get to shoot it either. They were showing it with a 85/1.2 and a 50/1.2 but they stated the lens couldn't resolve what their sensors were capable of. this is why they are also considering a bit of bigger mount. NOT MF! so don't start that crap.

Annie has been shooting Canon, Leaf, H1, Phase anything she wants. As one of the guys here said that he has the shot before the camera comes to his eye. EXACTLY!!

Is the viewfinder bigger in MF? SURE! But only in the 33+ MP backs. But a cropped MFDB on a MF and the image becomes darker and smaller. But they are also so much slower!

I doubt Annie signed a damn thing for Canon other than a print. No offense to some of the reps here. But the majority of reps are the biggest geeks in the world that get so excited to be on a set. I am sure they heard Annie was in town spoke to her rep and wanted to come by and show off a new piece. I was about ten feet away during a break and noticed the camera and then from speaking to the other people on set learned about it. Later in the day the rep befriended the Assistants and chatted us up as he could not go near the shooting or the set and Annie was busy with the celebrities and clients. So he was looking for somene to geek out with.

It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.

Unless Nikon throws some kind of Hail Marry and make it. They will still be second.

Annie likes the speed of the Canon and quality of the file.

As for her shows. I don't think any Print from the shows or her books are digital. This is all old film i.e. RZ, Mamiya 6, 7, Fuji 670 & 690.

And Yes, I do admire her work and the work of many other shooters for the ney sayers. That is why I got into this business. For anyone ragging on me and living outside of NYC. Come to NYC, LA, Paris, London, or Milan and try to make it and pay the bills. Ahh, there is a rude awakening. Enjoy the weddings, kid portraits, family portraits, pet portraits, Online dating portraits with your $1,000 rent for 3,000 sq ft.

Come try to compete in a major market. Then let's see what you do.

Yes, I assist to pay the bills and I have been trying to leave it and have done so and able to survive. I still get pick up work after the holidays and when i need cash.

Yes, it is an abbreviation name on my post. I am not sure if Annie would be happy or not. But I did this because of all the GEEKS out here and dreamers that want a bit of information on what to expect. EXECUSE THE F*&K out of me. YOUR WELCOME!

So I hope the IDIOTS who ragged on me go out and buy the New bestest greatest glass Canon has right now. Then come November Canon scews you all and announces their newest bestest glass WITH A NEW MOUNT. Take that.

So go spend your hard earned dollars and then take it in the @$$ when you have to sell it at a loss because it won't work with the new body that you want. (sorry Michael, one of the guys annoyed me)

I said I would give up my H1 because I don't like the speed or the lock of 100 asa. If I need to let her rip, I want that ability. If I want to comfortably shoot 400, I want that ability.

I would love the ability to have a small system to carry around that can do it all. Canon Speed and flexibility, MF & Leica quality. WHO DOESN'T? If you don't, then go get your self an 8x10 and be my guest.

I just want to shoot and have that the easiest way possible. That use to mean a 645, a few lenses with NPH or NPZ and drop it at the lab.

Now it is computers, hard drives, processing software, freezes, etc..., etc..., etc...

You're Welcome!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

[cdesperado]

Full Thread, from LL
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14440&hl=annie%20liebovitz&st=0

[radiohead]

Is he on crack?

[Longwatcher]

While I believe what was said in the rumor could be accurate, the reason I disbelieve are as follows:
1. Only 2 posts from the OP (on LL) (usually a sign of a troll)
2. Claims to be 5th assistant
3. If it were true story given Canon's current security practices a Canon Rep has just been fired. A rep in the US is probably not going to have the prototype handy in any account.
4. Unless Canon was starting a marketing campaign with Annie Leibowitz, I can't seem them caring what she thought of the camera if she is not going to be using their camera.
5. As mentioned on LL, there is no need to make a larger mount if the sensor is not increasing in physical size. While a larger mount might provide for better IQ, it would not be likely to be profitable because it would not make as much of a difference as going to MF. If I have to pay MF format prices for my lenses, might as well buy a MF camera.
6. He says they are planing on a different mount and yet it still used the same 85/1.2 and 50/1.2 lenses. Good lenses yes, but same old mount. If they had a prototype out they would most likely have the new lens prototypes out as well.
7. And lastly it is stated to be half size, I don't see the flagship camera with a larger mount and a FF sensor with all the desired features fitting into that small of a camera at this time. it is possible, but barely and I think it would be uncomfortable to hold.

Lastly if it is true, then I can save my money, because I couldn't afford the new glass much less the camera to change out the system, which is what I would be doing. I have a good set of glass based on the EF mount and don't see the need to change this out unless it was significant improvement and that will only occur by going to a Medium Format system, something I can't afford.

Just my opinion,

[JX]

marlinspike: wrote
There would be no reason to change the lens mount to be able to resolve at a higher resolution. They changed the mount once to add AF, but for extra resolving power of the glass nothing needs to change. In fact, there would be nothing "may" about making a new lens mount since it's one of those things where either you have to have a different mount or you don't (the only thing I could think of that would demand a new one would be if they changed the distance between the mount and the sensor, but even that I think would be correctable with a calibration to the lens).

Also, look at the Zeiss ZF 50 1.4. That resolves PLENTY and it is also built on a mount that can be adapted to fit on an EF mount.


marlinspike I think your right. But they would have to change the lens mount and lens if they redesigned the sensor to match a medium format sensor ( for example Hasablad). If you think about it, medium format cameras are open game for Canon. They have lead in the DSLR full sensor camera. Why not venture into medium format arena.

[cdesperado]

This is just my opinion, but the medium format market isn't really large enough (in terms of potential customers) to make such a venture really profitable.

Canon and Nikon basically dominate the much larger (and more profitable) DSLR market for amateurs, hobbyists, and professionals. However, Sony, Olympus, and others are gaining ground. Therefore, to maintain their position in the marketplace, it seems more reasonable (and logical) for Canon to focus its resources and finances on products for the market in which they already have a strong presence, rather than attempt to move into the medium format market.

I have searched in vain for information about the medium format company Canon supposedly "acquired." Events like this are typically well publicized and Canon would have to notify its stockholders about such an acquisition. Does anyone have any legitimate information about this?

As far as this Annie rumor.

1. I believe it is possible a Canon rep who wanted to impress a well established photographer would bring a prototype to her. There are many pros (and even some forum moderators) out there who test prototype equipment.

2. The "half-size comment" could have been a casual reference to the body without the grip, which would support other rumors that the camera body shape has been altered.

3. I don't believe the comments about a different mount being a necessity. Maybe (maybe) the new body has some "extra" contact points that would enable the camera to support EF lenses as well as this theoretical new "EF-x" - I don't know. What I do know is that I cannot see the Canon 1 series camera completely abandoning the EF line. (Since some models can support EF and EF-S, then I suppose a new camera could support EF and "EF-x.")

[Longwatcher]

the only rumor about a new lens mount which made both sense and I liked was the X2 format camera rumor that came out last summer.

It was the rumor that said Canon was going to basically put the equivilant of two 35mm sensors together (on the long side) to make a MF sensor. It would require a new lens mount. The design was such that you could switch between EF and the EFM lenses on the new camera (using a crop mode for the EF lenses and with a physical switch as well on the camera to change mounts) or with an adapter put the new lenses on the old EF mount cameras. With a 16.7 sensor this gives them a 33MP sensor or if the 22MP stories are correct a 44MP sensor (or close to it anyway).

If it were true in conjunction with the higher dynamic range rumors for the 22Mp sensor, then bye bye MF companies

Come to think of it the rumors might be compatable if you presume the dual release theory, which was a 22MP 35mm format camera and the new MF camera were to be released in the same year. Some of the 22MP rumors indicate a smaller size then the 1DsMkII size.

Note this is only a rumor,

[sapearl]

Just to share this with everyone... the op that started this whole Annie thing has posted again. (This started with posts scraped from Luminous Landscape".) The op has basically been grilled then posted this message yesterday.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the original thread:
To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.~~~~~~~~~`

Quite an interesting post - interesting - informative and enlightening in it's own way.

[sapearl]

marlinspike: wrote....... If you think about it, medium format cameras are open game for Canon. They have lead in the DSLR full sensor camera. Why not venture into medium format arena.

Hello JX - and fellow Clevelander :lol: - with no disrepect intended I don't see them "profitably" going into MF digital for the "mass" market.

I came from MF film (Hasselblad) and FF dSLR's just offer way too much quality, CONVENIENCE, portability, and affordability IMHO. I miss my MF to some degree, but I've fallen in love with the 5D because of its capabilities.

Sure Canon could do it, but it would be a very expensive niche business. I suspect that you and I don't know too many Cleveland area photogs who own digital Hassy's ;) - Stu

[TTLImaging]

haha! are you seriouus????? God I am so glad that I an not in NYC, Paris, LA or Milan. If the fifth assistants are that pompus there I am happy here w/ my $2k rent for 981 sq/ft and lots of assistants that don't think of themselves as so much better. As his talk of smaller size goes, think detachable grip. as for MP, 22 is pretty much assured, as for resolving power, canon already claims 250mm at the corners on all new lenses post '97 and I believe this is greater than the potential of fujichrome velvia if I remember correctly. so there goes some of the film vs digital. A new mount though? I'll be very suprised. This goes against everything canon has said recently, I.E. standardise the pro bodies with a common size sensor and crop factor. The EF mount was designed WITH the EOS system to maximise preformance. If this studio type of camera is coming, and I'll be glad it is for certain things they will probably introduce an entire new camera system. It truely would be nice to see wide lenses that did not produce barrel distortion like a hasselblad / zeiss set up.
read this post and a lot of things seem to go hand in hand
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=262990
As for the geeks comment, are grown ups really that insecure? do they have to make fun of others. I find it absolutely hilarious on Ugly Betty to see adults behaving that way, but for the love of god what does some ones parents have to do to a kid to make them feel that insecure as an adult? Without those tech geeks we would drawing those tomcat pictures on the side of a cave wall. Their tech rep is just a human and if I were him I to would be fairly excited to be holding the door to the future..... have fun, and I wouldn't worry to much about Canon leaving you high and dry with a new lens mount. If it does come It's not going to be something that 98% of people will need to change to.
Peace.

[JX]

Hi sapearl

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. If you think back to the 70’s and 80s how many wedding photographer did you see using a 35mm camera. I used a Bronica ETR and a Mamiya Twin Lens Reflex, and the undisputed king of the TLR was the Rollei. Would I go back to a medium format camera? Yes if the price was similar to 1DsMk II. Would I buy a digital Hasselblad right now, if I won the Mega Million lottery.

I agree with you that at the current price of a digital medium format are too costly. but so were the first Digital SLRs back in the late 90’s.

[JX]

I think “JTFOTO” who posted the rumor was trolling. If you look up his profile in the Luminous Landscape forum, he has only posted twice. I do not believe a word he is saying. I read the entire thread; I think he was just trying to cause an argument. His second post is too erratic to be true.

[sapearl]

Hi sapearl

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. If you think back to the 70’s and 80s how many wedding photographer did you see using a 35mm camera. I used a Bronica ETR and a Mamiya Twin Lens Reflex, and the undisputed king of the TLR was the Rollei. Would I go back to a medium format camera? Yes if the price was similar to 1DsMk II. Would I buy a digital Hasselblad right now, if I won the Mega Million lottery.

I agree with you that at the current price of a digital medium format are too costly. but so were the first Digital SLRs back in the late 90’s.




I see where you're coming from JX. You and I were shooting with similar gear back in the 70's & 80's; I was king of the Mamiya TLR, but you had the better Bronica ETR :lol: . Nice little machine - but all I could afford was the Mamiya until I made a little more money in the 90's and switched to Hassy.

I'd love to own a digital Hassy now, but you'd have to share your lotto winnings with me ;) . Perhaps at some point there will be an affordable dMF. But it better happen soon before I hit retirement age.

[chevysales]

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/01/latest-from-rumor-mill.html

A poster with the handle JTFOTO who claimed to have recently served as 5th assistant to Annie Leibovitz had this to say on the L-L forums on Friday:

"She has been shooting all her editorial work with Canon 1Ds MII bodies. These have been major jobs for Vanity Fair and various other mags and recently went on a major Ad job that will be worldwide. The TomKat cover was all Canon and the last two or three editorials were all Canon. The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design. It won't be out before Phot Show East."

So there you have it, the latest uber-kam rumor, from the horse's mouth to the next horse to the next horse and then on to your ear. "Phot Show East" refers to the PhotoPlus Expo 2007, slated to be held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center in Manhattan on October 18–20, 2007. "The TomKat cover" refers to the recent, um, Leibovitz "homage" to Linda McCartney on the cover of Vanity Fair.


annie was one of the best photogs for rolling stone mag in late 60's and early 70's catching many bands on the rise with a style all her own.

[sapearl]

annie was one of the best photogs for rolling stone mag in late 60's and early 70's catching many bands on the rise with a style all her own.

Absolutely - don't know how many of you saw it, but a couple of weeks ago PBS's "American Masters" presented a fantastic 90 minute program on her life and accomplishments. Here's the PBS link:

http://www.pbs.org/previews/am-leibovitz/

And here is a quote from the PBS site:

"I wasn't one of those photographers that started when I was 12 and always wanted to be a photographer," says Leibovitz, who now ranks alongside Richard Avedon, Margaret Bourke-White and Irving Penn. "It really was a much slower awareness. It all came from the same place of wanting to do art, wanting to do - something - to express yourself."

I'd give credit for this quote, but I can't see an author for the article. You can also see the trailer for this special:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/

Certainly would love to sit down and have a cup of coffee with that lady...;) superb artist.

[NickSimcheck]

Thanks for the links Pearl, I can't wait to see the special.

[sapearl]

Thanks for the links Pearl, I can't wait to see the special.

Sure thing Nick ;) . I thought it was quite good .... 'course the PBS stuff is usually top notch.

She is quite a woman, and was really immersed in the Rolling Stone shoots. Many times she wouldn't just go to an event and do the shoot. Instead it was an "immersion" process - I'd almost consider it anthropological in nature. That is, she'd go and live with, or at least spend a considerable amount of time with the person or group of people she'd be photographing.

She'd really get to KNOW them first, as best one could, BEFORE photographing them. This gave her a keen insight into the individual, which is always an advantage when trying to do any sort of meaningful portrait study.

[chevysales]

Sure thing Nick ;) . I thought it was quite good .... 'course the PBS stuff is usually top notch.

She is quite a woman, and was really immersed in the Rolling Stone shoots. Many times she wouldn't just go to an event and do the shoot. Instead it was an "immersion" process - I'd almost consider it anthropological in nature. That is, she'd go and live with, or at least spend a considerable amount of time with the person or group of people she'd be photographing.

She'd really get to KNOW them first, as best one could, BEFORE photographing them. This gave her a keen insight into the individual, which is always an advantage when trying to do any sort of meaningful portrait study.


her shoot of fleetwood mac in 75 was awesome along with her linda ronstadt cover... but nothing IMO compares to her rollling stones shots 75 tour... some backstage stuff that captures time in a bottle so to speak.

i definetly need to catch those pbs specials

[sapearl]

her shoot of fleetwood mac in 75 was awesome along with her linda ronstadt cover... but nothing IMO compares to her rollling stones shots 75 tour... some backstage stuff that captures time in a bottle so to speak.

i definetly need to catch those pbs specials

Yes, she lived the "lifestyle" as she did those shoots, and it did take a certain toll on her.

There is always a price to pay for producing great works. It takes courage, energy and a different way of looking at things..... not to mention a certain amount of sacrifice. I admire her for that. She's only a couple of years older than me, but was far braver and inventive than I was at that time in my life; hat's off to her...:cool:

[delhi]

Oh come on.... her best gotta be Baby Suri. ;)

[CyberDyneSystems]

22MP will be just fine with my good lenses.