Ixus 850 (SD800is) image quality

[Saudidave]

I keep reading reviews of this camera that claim 800 iso to be "unuseable" due to degradation of IQ. On the other hand, whilst it isn't a patch on my 400d, I think it looks OK and very useable, printed at 8x10, uncropped, at superfine/large. Does anyone else have an opinion?

[dave_bass5]

I keep reading reviews of this camera that claim 800 iso to be "unuseable" due to degradation of IQ. On the other hand, whilst it isn't a patch on my 400d, I think it looks OK and very useable, printed at 8x10, uncropped, at superfine/large. Does anyone else have an opinion?

No opinion but im looking to get one to back up my 30D and i am a bit worried about noise at the higher ISO settings. I dont mind using a NR program as i do anyway with the higher ISO settings one my 30D but i would like to see some shots from the 850IS

[sjprg]

http://www.pbase.com/sjprg/image/69160360

[dave_bass5]

Paul
Thanks for posting that shot but its the higher ISO settings and indoors without flash im interested in.
Nice shot though.

[MaxZoom]

One thing that surprises me about the digital photography area is the lack of any metrics on noise. In that vacuum we are down to subjective statements. So here's my subjective statement...

No P&S will be as good as a dSLR for noise due to the reduced sensor size. I have an S3 which has a 1/6th size sensor compared to full frame 35mm. Many dSLRs have smaller than "full size" sensors too. If all sensors were created equal then a 1/6th size sensor would have six times the noise of a "full size" sensor. That would mean ISO800 on a P&S would have the noise equivalent of a 1:1.6 crop dSLR at around ISO3200. The latest top of the line P&S offering from Olympus is boasting a ISO5000 setting which by my math would be the equivalent on a dSLR of ISO20000.
The in-camera processing on any camera reduces the visible noise but at a potential loss of image quality. A dSLR with a BIG sensor gives the best result and needs minimal processing. I find the results from an S3 at ISO800 very usable without additional processing, I have no experience of an 850 but I guess it must be about the same. I probably would not enter an ISO800 shot in for a competition without aditional NR because it is simply not as good as even an entry level dSLR.
I've been encouraging others not to be afraid of ISO800, it is more important to get an in-focus, correctly exposed image than any noise consideration which can be post-processed very sucessfully.
You are not crazy, ISO800 is not evil.

[dave_bass5]

Max
good reply. I for one don't have a problem with NR as i use it quite a bit on high ISO shots from my 30D. what worried me though is the NR seems to be quite heavy and you seem to loose some detail. i would rather apply the NR in PSCS2 myself so i can avoid loosing detail but i suppose its only a P&S and i guess i shouldn't be too critical.
I must admit ive not looked around much outside of Canon but the 850IS appeals to me as it has IS. If its as good as my old Ixus40 but with the IS making it even better then i guess ill get one.

[Saudidave]

Max
good reply. I for one don't have a problem with NR as i use it quite a bit on high ISO shots from my 30D. what worried me though is the NR seems to be quite heavy and you seem to loose some detail. i would rather apply the NR in PSCS2 myself so i can avoid loosing detail but i suppose its only a P&S and i guess i shouldn't be too critical.
I must admit ive not looked around much outside of Canon but the 850IS appeals to me as it has IS. If its as good as my old Ixus40 but with the IS making it even better then i guess ill get one.

The 850is is without doubt noisier than the ixus 40 (I have both). It's got a smaller sensor and nearly twice as many pixels so the reason is as plain as a pikestaff. I also have an S3IS and curiously that is noisier than the 850IS, straight out of the camers, despite a smaller pixel count. What we really need is an ixus 40 sensor in an 850 body/lens, so we get a smooth image, IS & 28 mm, but the marketing men wouldn't like that!

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Dave
I ended up getting a Canon 17-55IS for my 30D to take to Disney. Ill also take my Ixus40 but ill have a look around while im out in the states and might try and pick up a SD800. should only cost me a lot less than over here. if i have to pay VAT etc when i get back so be it but for now im sorted.

[Saudidave]

Ill also take my Ixus40 but ill have a look around while im out in the states and might try and pick up a SD800. .

With retrospect, had I realised the shortcomings of the 800/850 I'd have probably got something else for 28mm rather than the ixus 850. Unless you need 28 wide, stick with the ixus 40 for holiday snaps!

[dave_bass5]

Im not too bothered about the WA end, i would like more on the long end but i do want IS as well. Might see if i can pick up a SD700 instead.
Just out of interest i went in to Curry's digital (Dixons) to have a look at a Ixus850 and they knew nothing about this camera, it wasnt even on the system.

[august23]

Dave, as an SD700 owner I might be biased, but this is an amazing camera. I LOVE my SD700. Super fast, razor sharp images at all optical lengths. Once you hit up the digital zoom you notice a lot of crappy noise and stuff. The lowlight AF hunts forever, but just take the picture and it's guarenteed a sharp one. It's super fast startup, small as hell, and has taken some of the best pictures I've seen in a P&S. A true gem in the SD700, I'd highly recommend it.

[dave_bass5]

Dave, as an SD700 owner I might be biased, but this is an amazing camera. I LOVE my SD700. Super fast, razor sharp images at all optical lengths. Once you hit up the digital zoom you notice a lot of crappy noise and stuff. The lowlight AF hunts forever, but just take the picture and it's guarenteed a sharp one. It's super fast startup, small as hell, and has taken some of the best pictures I've seen in a P&S. A true gem in the SD700, I'd highly recommend it.

So you like it eh?
As its only a back up for my 30D i wouldnt need it to do all things but it does sound like its ideal. and the longer reach would be more usful to me

Thanks

[august23]

No problem. Don't get me wrong, wide angle on the SD800 is great, but thats what you have a 30D for. Trust me, I haven't taken a "bad" picture with the SD700. And for at least $100 less, it's extremely worth the price. I'm afraid of my 400D, because thinking about all the money I spent going SLR, I know this P&S will still get a ridiculous amount of use.

[dave_bass5]

I have just ordered a Fuji F31 after reading a few reviews. it seems like its aimed more that indoor shooting and this is what ill be doing with it.
Thanks for the help

[Nightscape]

I have just ordered a Fuji F31 after reading a few reviews. it seems like its aimed more that indoor shooting and this is what ill be doing with it.
Thanks for the help

I am thinking about getting the F31fd. How is ISO 1600 and 3200 on it?

[oth]

I picked up a SD850IS this past week and I think it's a great compact point and shoot for the price. I've been using A40 or A80 for most of my hand carry shooting and reserve a10D only for planned events. I prefer the 10D for many reasons but the 850 is going to win out over my A series which both take excellent everyday family type shooting. I can live with the ISO noise levels with the smaller sensor size considering the trade offs. I am not sure why they are pushing these high ISO speeds in these P&S anyway? MAX pretty much calls it as it is. Probably why I myself wasn't aware of the sensor size issue myself till recently.

As for low light situations require more technique in my option, to get optimal results. There are a few short cuts, but not many, rests, mono pod, IS, etc. I found the same was true shooting high speed film in the old days using available light..

oth

[Marsellus_Wallace]

I keep reading reviews of this camera that claim 800 iso to be "unuseable" due to degradation of IQ. On the other hand, whilst it isn't a patch on my 400d, I think it looks OK and very useable, printed at 8x10, uncropped, at superfine/large. Does anyone else have an opinion?
Same here, I love it and I am still amazed at how good it is. I expected to be a little disappointed after reading some reviews, but it's way better than I ever expected, and the image quality, battery life, screen, lens and IS are all great.

Besides the point: I am amazed at the Auto white balance on the SD800. I've never seen anything like it: it's always dead-on, every single time. I never had to override it manually, not even in really crappy lighting. Believe me or not, AWB on the SD800 is way better than on the 5D and 30D DSLRs!