Costly mistake :(

[sblais]

Well, it's perhaps not all that costly, but I am still not happy.

Here's the story:

A few months after their wedding, a couple was still undecided with their selection of prints and were reviewing the online proofs from my web site. They contacted me to see if they could provide them with a larger version so that they can see their expression better and they would then order some prints for their thank you cards. All is fine and good.

But then I screw up.

I provide them with a larger version (1000 px X 667 px - not all that big, but barely enough to print a 4x6), but I forgot to add the "Copyright do not steal this picture or else" on my pics and I never noticed. Several months pass and I never hear back from the couple on this subject. Just recently, I touched base with them again to see how they were doing and to see whether they had made their selection for their thank you cards and for the pics included in their wedding package. Bottom line is, they avoided the topic and concentrated only on the prints included in their package, not the extra prints for the thank you cards. Funny... but hey! A bit later, I notice that I forgot the copyright sign........

Now, I'm jumping to the same conclusion as all of you and I am kicking myself in the behind. But I am also so frustrated with the couple, I just don't want to deal with them anymore. Plus the fact that I don't know where they got the pics printed for their cards, and I had no control over the quality, which can be bad as I had quite a few people at their wedding interested in my services.

Sorry, just venting out my frustration towards myself and that couple.

[Ross McT.]

Yeah that sucks.

A former work acquaintance did the same sort of thing, took his proofs to the local walmart and used the Kodak flatbed scanner and printed enlargements from the 4x6s the photographer provided.

Some People just don't get it!!

[lil_miss]

Perhaps in addition to the copyright is that future couples pay for the thankyou cards and prints prior so that they have already committed. Perhaps include the cards as part of the package.. that being that they have already paid and choosing to go somewhere else is not in their best interests.

Sorry to hear though.. although you can only learn - so onwards and upwards!

[sblais]

Perhaps in addition to the copyright is that future couples pay for the thankyou cards and prints prior so that they have already committed. Perhaps include the cards as part of the package.. that being that they have already paid and choosing to go somewhere else is not in their best interests.

Sorry to hear though.. although you can only learn - so onwards and upwards!

Yes, I was considering that option. Thanks for bringing it up though! What frustrated me most was probably the fact that I was actually considering removing that big copyright sign on my online proofs to give my clients a better looking proof from which to make their selection.

I've had bad experiences with other couples in the past (no payment, etc), but for a reason or another, this situation really got to me as I would not have expected that from this couple. They really enjoyed working with me and were quite pleased with my service and the pictures and they sincerely (I think) said so on several occasions. Now this is like a slap in the face.

[oldshooter]

Be Patient!!

Having a couple put off thier print order a few months is nothing.

On some of my packages I have an image or print credit, and this past Summer I had a couple from 2 years before call me and finally give me their print order. And like you it I made the mistake of giving them a unprotected CD with image that were 600*400 px. It was my 1st digital wedding and I did not know how to use an action to put a copyright on all their images.

They contacted me several times during that two years, and Like you I was convinced they copied the images themselves. When I finally did meet with them I realized that they were just really busy, and wound up ordering $600 more than their $900 image credit!

Keep your cool and give them the benefit of the doubt until you know for sure they copied your photos, because maybe like my order you might be pleasently surprised with the outcome. Weddings are expensive and really the largest print orders I have gotten, in the thousands, came months after the wedding.

Best of Luck,
Joe

[CyberPet]

I'm with Joe, don't put up a stink just yet, as they might surprise you later. I know the "thank you cards" images are a big sum that you might miss, but they might order some larger prints that will make up for it.

One couple that I shot 1.5 years ago placed a third order just a few weeks ago, so they ended up being a very good client as they wanted more and more images (now mostly in bw). Plus they wanted to buy a digital version of one image, which I sold to them for a sum.

[Lin-z]

I have some clients like this myself. I am wondering if they are EVER going to order prints, or if they just stole them from my website.

The main issue I have with people stealing the images is not that I am missing out on getting paid, but that I cannot control the quality. Thats what makes me get mad about it.

[sblais]

Thanks for all your comments! I guess I was just venting out more than anything else. Only time will tell what happens in the end! ;)

[jbstudios]

dont worry i did 7 weddings last year. Not one ordered. I found my mistakes were giving too many proofs and lower packages. i learned to raise my prices, include less proofs, Include prints. Now i should get everything upfront before the wedding and no worries afterwards like non payment. good luck! dont feel bad i know tons of brides that never order after getting proofs.

jb

[picturecrazy]

Don't worry about it. If people REALLY want to skip the print payment, they'll find a way. I've even seen someone use a camera to take a picture of a picture and get that printed. There's nothing you can do. Sorry for the loss but it'll hurt you more to raise a stink than to recover lost profit.

[motogeno]

I included print credits in my pricing so that they are basically guaranteed to buy prints from me. I only use online proofing that has the images as protected as they can get in html and are only 500 pixels max. I don't give any prints as proofs. I haven't been doing this long enough to tell you how effective this is, but I am basically doing what others in the industry are doing. They are paying more up front to guarantee that they will be buying prints from me, and not just trying to copy my proofs. Some actually just charge more and give images on a disk, but I'm not crazy about this as I can't guarantee the quality of print and it is my reputation at stake. In the end all you can do is minimize the damage.

[Jason Cole]

See what I do is the oppositte. I give them the HIGH RES DVD's upfront, but I charge more upfront for my packages too, to compensate for this. To me, reprints are a pain in the butt and I would much rather the couple to do this.

In your case though, I have seen this in modelling too. I sent some girls lores images, and even if they have just ONE image they dont ever buy photos. Give them NO images and they buy :-)

[cdifoto]

I included print credits in my pricing so that they are basically guaranteed to buy prints from me. I only use online proofing that has the images as protected as they can get in html and are only 500 pixels max. I don't give any prints as proofs. I haven't been doing this long enough to tell you how effective this is, but I am basically doing what others in the industry are doing. They are paying more up front to guarantee that they will be buying prints from me, and not just trying to copy my proofs. Some actually just charge more and give images on a disk, but I'm not crazy about this as I can't guarantee the quality of print and it is my reputation at stake. In the end all you can do is minimize the damage.

This is pretty much how I do it. Print credit via online ordering, web images 435px max width/length. My packages now include albums versus prints but I don't give away any kind of proof in printed form. I'm paid up front before I begin shooting...deposit to hold the date, balance day before/day of if not sooner. They've already handed me their money so it's in their best interest to use their print credit (in the form of a coupon code on my website) to get their prints. If they never order their prints, it makes no difference to me.

If they order all 4x6s via the print credit and scan them, there's really nothing I can do about that besides sue if I even find out about it. My contract does say that it's against the law and explains briefly the negative impact of doing so but I can't control others and I don't feel like it's something worth stressing over, let alone suing.

There really are more important things to worry about in life.

[_Jo_]

See what I do is the oppositte. I give them the HIGH RES DVD's upfront, but I charge more upfront for my packages too, to compensate for this. To me, reprints are a pain in the butt and I would much rather the couple to do this.

In your case though, I have seen this in modelling too. I sent some girls lores images, and even if they have just ONE image they dont ever buy photos. Give them NO images and they buy :-)

I do the same. I charge a set fee and that includes a high res CD/DVD. Re-prints are a pain in the rear for me as I am not "set up" as a business and work from home. A lot of brides like the freedom of paying a set fee and walking away with the images to print at their leisure.

[Jason Cole]

I even gett he B&G a 20% discount at a local photo lab too, so that gives them even more reason to print their own photos :-)

[italianfemmy]

And gives you more time to focus on your next wedding too Jason :-) .

[_Jo_]

I even gett he B&G a 20% discount at a local photo lab too, so that gives them even more reason to print their own photos :-)

When I give the B&G the CD/DVD I give them a price list of good labs I trust. I guarantee the images if printed at the companies recommended - otherwise print at your own risk.

[Banbert]

See what I do is the oppositte. I give them the HIGH RES DVD's upfront, but I charge more upfront for my packages too, to compensate for this. To me, reprints are a pain in the butt and I would much rather the couple to do this.



I am a newbie but this will always be my business model and I think making money from print orders will eventually be a thing of the past, I want people to be able to enjoy the images I shoot not be unable to afford them.

[sblais]

Thanks again for all your input on this matter. I am currently rethinking the way I do business in photography. Last year was my first and I intend to do things quite differently very soon. So far, my packages were cheap to allow me to build a portfolio, but I have raised my prices and intend to do so again soon to match the product and service I now offer.

[GingerT]

OK -- this is waaaay totally off-topic -- but Sebastien -- did you ever by chance live in Moncton?

[gateruner]

I like all the ideas on the actual business end of this. Here is a take on the original post. It is likely that the B & G ended up after everything was all said and done unable to afford any further purchases. This can be an embarrassing situation for a couple and could lead to them being a bit coy on a phone call. Best to let it go. I always say that what goes around comes around. You will find reward somewhere else by not letting it get you down.

[sblais]

I like all the ideas on the actual business end of this. Here is a take on the original post. It is likely that the B & G ended up after everything was all said and done unable to afford any further purchases. This can be an embarrassing situation for a couple and could lead to them being a bit coy on a phone call. Best to let it go. I always say that what goes around comes around. You will find reward somewhere else by not letting it get you down.

Oh, I'm not going to pursue anything about this. I see it as an opportunity to rethink my business practice in order to protect me and to fulfill my clients' demands. It frustrated me at first, but I'm now over it and will let it go, as you said.

[cwphotos]

I like _Jo_'s idea. Making it a guarantee if they print at certain labs. I may have to try that.

[thekid24]

I had a similar situation. I did a session at a local daycare to take pictures of the children for the parents. After days editing the photos I gave them to the babysitter to give to the parents once they paid. Well the babysitter ended up giving the photos to the parents before they paid, which I made obvious I was not happy with. And although all but one parent has paid me, there isnt much I can do and I didnt lose too much money. I had to pick and choose my battles, which in this case Im not going to make a huge deal over $20, after all it was my fault for not making it crystal clear with the babysitter. I now know never to assume:p
Sorry to hear about your situation. I know it sucks

[_Jo_]

I like _Jo_'s idea. Making it a guarantee if they print at certain labs. I may have to try that.

The reason I did this is that if they print off their budget home printer or go to a budget lab, even one of those ones at pharmacys where you pop in your CD and whoosh there is your pic! We spend time getting the lighting right and the colour etc - then fine tune on our PC - it looks great - then the client goes and uses one of the above...and what happens? I also make it clear that they will vary slightly depending on different PC monitors and Tv's.

I find that every client goes (at their own leisure) to my recommended labs and they get the result that I intend them.

It's bad for business if they get crap prints on crap paper!!! lol

(I also recommend they print Matt not Gloss).