1D question, please help

[J. Cobble]

I have an opportunity to purchase a factory refurbished origional 1D for $2700. It is not the 1Ds so I am assuming that it was the first model. Is this correct? Is this a good price? Will the MK II be better? I need some input from anyone who knows. Do they still make the plain 1D?

Thanks

[Belmondo]

The 1D and 1Ds are different cameras. The 1D is 4.15 megapixels unit with a smaller sensor (1.3X crop). The 1Ds is a 11.1 megapixel cameral with a full-frame sensor (no crop factor).

The 1D is a fantastic, professional quality camera that has few peers in the applications for which it was designed. If you can live with the 4-megapixels, you'll have a great camera.

The Mk II has many improvement, including resolution, but costs a lot more than what you're talking about for the refurb. 1D. Only you can determine if the higher price is cost-effective for you.

Good luck.

Tom

[justme_dc]

Ok, here's the skinny.

The EOS 1D was the first Pro level DSLR to take the field that wasn't a co-op between canon and kodak. It came out around november of 2001. All the specs are in the reviews that I have attached.
Here (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2001_reviews/canon_eos1d.html)
and
Here (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d/)
Is it a good price? For a refurb? No it isn't a good price at all. There are several very legit companies selling the camera brand new in the box for around $2800. These people for instance. (http://www.canogacamera.com) The problem you will come across is finding one in stock. Offically the 1D is no longer a production camera. Canon has removed it from their company site.

But Will the mkII be better? In several ways yes. In several very critical ways no it won't be better at all. They made some changes to that model that I find unacceptable so I'll be keeping my 1D for quite a while. I think we'll find that a lot of early adopters will regret selling their 1D bodies to get the new 1DmkII. I personally know several photographers that sold their 1D bodies to get the 1Ds when it came out and then promptly sold the 1Ds and bought 1D bodies again. The 1D is a magical camera. It doesn't have the biggest image size but it makes up for that in so many ways. It's an incredible piece of equiptment.

I'll let the hoardes clamor over the 1DmkII for a long while before I'll get one for myself and then only to replace my 10D not my 1D.

The critical questions you need to ask yourself are these:
Will a $4500. camera make you a better photographer than a $2800 camera or a $1500 camera for that matter. (Hint the answer is no.)

What do you want to do with the camera?
High end studio work=1Ds
Sports/ journalism/ Birding=1D
General do it all photography=10D or even a 300D (digi-rebel)
It remains to be seen where the 1DmkII will shine.

Pick the right tool for the job. As my father says, "you don't hunt squirrels with a bazooka".

Pick the camera you think will cover your needs and spend the bigger sum of your money on a couple really top notch lenses. I'd rather have a lesser camera with great glass than a 1Ds with an ashtray taped to the front.

I hope this has at least given you something to think about.

Good luck to you.

[Belmondo]

But Will the mkII be better? In several ways yes. In several very critical ways no it won't be better at all. They made some changes to that model that I find unacceptable so I'll be keeping my 1D for quite a while. I think we'll find that a lot of early adopters will regret selling their 1D bodies to get the new 1DmkII.

Justme_dc:

Please expand on this statement. I wasn't aware of any particular issues.

Thanks,

Tom

[J. Cobble]

Thanks, I knew there would be an answer!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

J.Cobble,

That is a great price..

If you DO NOT decide to go for the 1D please PM or E-mail me,.. If there is a way that I can take advantage of the deal.

Belmondo,..

The two disadvantages of the MkII Vs. The 1D are as follows.

Flash Sync. MkII only 1/250th 1D up to 1/500th

Shutter Speed MkII only 1/8000th Vs. 1D up to 1/16000th

[AlanL]

I just purchased a new 1d for $2,999 with new warranty. They have one more here in Raleigh

[justme_dc]

Belmondo,..

The two disadvantages of the MkII Vs. The 1D are as follows.
Flash Sync. MkII only 1/250th 1D up to 1/500th
Shutter Speed MkII only 1/8000th Vs. 1D up to 1/16000th

Those are two of the problems but not the only ones. The flash sync is no small issue. I have been able to successfully sync my 1D all the way up to 1/16000th. That is something that is physically impossible with a focal plane camera that is running a CMOS chip. Believe when I say this is really useful. High speed sync is vital for daylight fill flash. Try shooting a wedding in bright sun with fill flash at 1/250th that extra stop is pretty important In most cases I can sync far beyond that and gain several stops of breathing room. Or, try stopping action on a basketball court most of the time 1/250th just won't cut it. The drop in top shutter speed is bad too. I rarely need it but when I do, I want it there.

Further, they dropped the pattern sharpening fuction from the camera. If you are on a deadline, being able to preset that and know what you are getting can be the difference between selling the shot or not. It also shortens workflow in your day to day shooting. That is no small thing. Digital has increased the time I spend on any assignment by several hours. Now I have to do all the work I used to farm out to a lab.

Also, The change from a standard 6-pin firewire cable to a 4-pin to 6-pin means extra cables to have laying around. That doesn't serve the needs of the busy photographer. If you shoot teathered and already own a 1D or 1Ds you'll have extra the extra cost of owning two long FW cables that aren't compatable with each other. Way to serve your customers.

Personal feelings, I think the CCD images have a quality and character to them that is completely different than images produced by CMOS sensors. CCDs have some pretty big disadvantages, their miserable noise in long low light exposures being high on the list. I have a 10D and for the most part it sits on a shelf because the 1D images just looks so much better to me. I had really hoped that the 1DmkII would have been an updated CCD design.

On to things I just think they dropped the ball on.

1.) SD slot is pointless why bother? We all own CF cards we don't need another media to drop or lose or break . We don't need smaller media either. I have small hands and sometimes I find CF cards to be a little on the small side. the first time you're in a hurry and you accidentally jab an SD card into the CF slot and bend the pins at the bottom with convince you.
2.)if you are changing the connectors why not replace the NiMH bateries with the less tempermental L-ion batteries. It would save weight and improve performance.

To be balanced Here's the things I think are great.

1.) E-TTL II Hopefully canon flashes will be back to being as good as they were 10 years ago with A-TTL.
2.) the zoom in preview feature.
3.) better rear display
4.)Color histograms

[CyberDyneSystems]

Hmm,. good points.

I must say though,. that on some of your issues,. I disagree.. and on others.. we just don't know yet.

Your CCD Vs. CMOS... we don't know yet how the MkII's improved and as yet untested CMOS will compare in quality to the 1D. It may blow it away.
Personally I like the CMOS "look" better,. but that's neither here nor there. Again,. we don't know yet how this particular CMOS will perform.

The In camera pattern sharpening was something I was totally unaware of. But again,. we do not know that the MkII images will have the typical "10D softness"???
Perhaps the jpegs will be as sharp as though coming out of the 1D? Perhaps sharper? we don't know yet.

The fire wire cable thing I can't imagine getting worked up about. I understand it is a minor annoyance,. but the issue is the FW standard,. not the Camera that uses it. The cable is $5.00 and the smaller connector is an industry standard on portable devices and laptops. Most of the Firewire cables I own have the small connector on one side. The sad part is that there ARE two types of Firewire connector. There should have just been one,. but there are two. Why blame a manufacturere for using the more common size? (common on portable devices that is) They probably get complaints about having the large size from all the people that had the other type of connector. USB was idiotic enough to force two connectors as well,. an A side and a B side? Why? Why not have all cables use male on both ends and all devices female like networking? (or firwire) Yes it's annoying but it's not Canon's fault when they adopt to use one of those "B" connectors on there USB products.

FLASH SYNC: YES as you say,. it is NO small issue. You are certainly not alone on this! A lot of sports photogs are VERY concerned about this.

Does the MkII really do away with high speed sync as well???
Wow! I did not realize that. I was under the impression that the 1D had 1/500 "standard" and then the High speed sync mode. I was also under the impression that the MkII still had the high speed sync mode.

SD Memory:
I thought it was odd too,. but it turns out there are some advantages.
1. Just having a second memory slot,,. if you have a second card in place,., you do not have to worry about missing a shot if you fumble your CF during a card change,. just keep shooting untill a break comes if need be.

2. Also,. the "Secure" in "Secure Digital" will enable technology that will allow "secure digital" images that can be used in a Court room/legal system for eveidence. No other manufacturer offers this forcing courts to rely on film only.

Totally agree on Battery! Why oh why didn't they go LI???

[justme_dc]

Hmm,. good points.
Thanks.

The fire wire cable thing I can't imagine getting worked up about.
The issue is only when shooting teathered. Which I do a lot. A quality 6 to 6 FW cable that is 15 feet is $50. Now you'll need a 4-6 as well that's another $50. Now say you pack the wrong one. Or you have a failure. Now having two of a like item is good insurance. Having two very similar but non-interchangable items is confusing.
FLASH SYNC: No,. it is NO small issue. A lot of sports photogs are VERY concerned about this.
Yes they are.
Does the MkII really do away with high speed sync as well??? I was also under the impression that the MkII still had the high speed sync mode.

It has the FP highspeed Sync. But it doesn't truly sync above 1/250th. The FP sync is not true highspeed sync. It is a workaround that uses lower powered flash pulses hence the "FP".
I was under the impression that the 1D had 1/500 "standard" and then the High speed sync mode.
Yes, BUT it will also sync from the PC socket with ordinary strobes all the way up to 1/16000th TRUE sync as long as the strobe is fast enough.

You raise good points on the SD cards but I am still not sold.

[KennyG]

But Will the mkII be better? In several ways yes. In several very critical ways no it won't be better at all. They made some changes to that model that I find unacceptable so I'll be keeping my 1D for quite a while.

Like you I will be keeping my 1D until it dies, but if the MK-II lives up to expectations then I will be adding one to my armoury and maybe bidding farewell to my 10D (or give it to to my wife). Way faster and more accurate AF plus the extra to play with at cropping time alone are worth the price to me, never mind the other goodies. The only backward step I can see is the flash sync speed, which doesn't bother me at all for my work.

Batteries I can live with, especially as they last twice as long with the MK-II. At least my 2 spares can get full use.

[justme_dc]

Don't get me wrong Kenny, I'll likely end up with a 1DmkII eventually. As I said above it will be to replace my 10D though. Not to suplant my wonderful 1D. My main gripe is the flash sync which is the only reason I haven't purchased a 1Ds yet. I was hoping the MkII would have the bigger sensor and the great sync speed.

[CyberDyneSystems]

The Sync speed is just really messed up that Canon took that step backwards..

Personaly,. it won't effect me as I rarely use any flash at all.. but seeing as how the 1D was, and the MkII is targeted for the sportshooters of the world, it makes no sense that they dropped the ball on this.