HDD Storage - Simply the Best!

[billhercus]

I was blown out of the water last time I mentioned HDD storage as an acceptable storage medium. Apparently HDD's blow up with monotonous regularity unlike CDR's etc which never fail.

However, I find myself using a USB 2.0 HDD housing with 60GB capacity disk for a total cost of UK 75 pounds. (Cheaper elsewhere of course)

It backs up from scratch 13GB in 38 mins. Using Powerquest's Data Keeper 5.0 files are instantly backed up (up to 5 versions) as I work.
The housing disconnects from the computer in 3 seconds and can be carried to a safe spot easily.

I consider the chances of it blowing up simultaneously with my C drive unlikely so, as a fast and inexpensive solution to the storage problem, worth serious consideration.

(A spare D drive can provide the metaphorical belt, braces and a spare tie at once again little outlay for the ultra, ultra cautious.)

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm a big fan of "online" storage and back up as well.

I use a similar set up.. but with some extra redundancy.
I have a RAID1 setup (two mirrored 160GB drives) split into three partitions.

This gives me two copies of everything from OS, apps, and of course data.

The third drive is an IDE in a removable bay (as are the other two) it is used for back up of Data only.. and I use a program called "MirrorFolde" which is a software RAID and archival back up solution in one. Since I allready have real time RAID in hardware,. I have set the Software to back up incrementally every four days.. this gives me four days grace period if I accidentally delete something on the RAID1 array.

And.. when I gt around to It I try to remeber to burn CDs and DVDs...
...but I'm lazy.. thus the hard drives!

[theoldmoose]

I was blown out of the water last time I mentioned HDD storage as an acceptable storage medium. Apparently HDD's blow up with monotonous regularity unlike CDR's etc which never fail.


I believe you misunderstood (well, at least me :wink: ). I believe the discussion centered around dragging a battery-operated HDD thingy out in the wild with you as an 'image tank' to be able to backup and reuse your compact flash media.

Several folks have had bad experiences in the field, where drives can be subjected to a lot more abuse than in the typical home or office situation.

Hard drives are reasonable backups, as long as you don't spin them all the time. Hard drives almost never lose data from just sitting around. The failures all tend to occur when they are running.

On the other hand, if you keep all your images on one archive drive only, you may end up eventually getting what you deserve. :twisted:

I woudn't want to keep all my eggs in one basket for long term storage, if I could help it. I'd even be nervous about adding images to a drive that represented my only archive. That would strike me as an 'opportunity' for something untoward to happen, losing everything in the process. Kind of like buying a tape drive and only one tape, and repeatedly backing everything up on that one tape. Not safe hex, to be sure. :wink:

[billhercus]

That's a pretty comprehensive system CDS which I imagine would leave any professional sleeping soundly at night.

I wasn't thinking of mobile storage, just an inexpensive secure system for an amatuer's pics in his PC, who nevertheless wouldn't want a total picture loss. Like CDS, I'm a bit lazy and all the faffing about with CDR medias would soon drive me crazy.

I actually have 3 copies of my pictures at present on C,D and my USB HDD. If it all blows up together I'll just walk to the shore here, find a cliff, and jump off. But I'm not scared!!

[Rob Larsen]

I support the CDS strategy also. Last year I created a procedure using differential and incremental backups to DVD. Sound procedure at first, but I've quickly grown tired of frequently having to plug and chug DVDs and now I'm not backing up as much as I should.

This week I'm picking up a large external drive to use as transient storage mirroring my internal drive. It will be backed up at some interval using earlier procedure. But now I will not have the worries of potentially loosing a few weeks of data due to laziness. If one drive fails, that will also trigger an immediate backup to DVD of the other.

The next incarnation of my PC will be configured with some version of RAID and the external drive will be relegated to portable storage/backup.

[5 Type]

That's a pretty comprehensive system CDS which I imagine would leave any professional sleeping soundly at night.

I wasn't thinking of mobile storage, just an inexpensive secure system for an amatuer's pics in his PC, who nevertheless wouldn't want a total picture loss. Like CDS, I'm a bit lazy and all the faffing about with CDR medias would soon drive me crazy.

I actually have 3 copies of my pictures at present on C,D and my USB HDD. If it all blows up together I'll just walk to the shore here, find a cliff, and jump off. But I'm not scared!!

What if... let say... you get robbed (stolen) or if your house get in fire.

On my side, I burn DVD and store them else where (ie : at a frien place).

[sparktography]

I don't trust CD's further than I can throw them! Most CDR's (non-archival quality) go bad within 5 years. I don't trust non RAID'ed HDD's etheir... I'm currently using a 5 bay RAID5 Firewire enclosure to store all my raw files. Kind of expensive, but it's the only way that I can feel that my business is safe from data loss. I do incremental backups to DVD just in case, but RAID5 is fairly secure...

[chris.bailey]

I don't trust CD's further than I can throw them! Most CDR's (non-archival quality) go bad within 5 years. I don't trust non RAID'ed HDD's etheir... I'm currently using a 5 bay RAID5 Firewire enclosure to store all my raw files. Kind of expensive, but it's the only way that I can feel that my business is safe from data loss. I do incremental backups to DVD just in case, but RAID5 is fairly secure...

Yes and no. Failing HDD's tend to work until they are powered off. I have lost a raid 5 array twice now when a power cut brought it down only for two drives to have failed when power was restored. I do use a RAID for my picture but use RAID 1 for speed. I then mirror this whole RAID to another one on start up and shutdown. I also backup to a portable HDD that I carry with me. That has a backup of my files at home and work. Finally all files are backed up to CD/DVD as a monthly archive i.e. I take a backup of all of Jan 04 pictures etc. I reckon on being pretty safe with that lot.

[sparktography]

Yes and no. Failing HDD's tend to work until they are powered off. I have lost a raid 5 array twice now when a power cut brought it down only for two drives to have failed when power was restored. I do use a RAID for my picture but use RAID 1 for speed. I then mirror this whole RAID to another one on start up and shutdown. I also backup to a portable HDD that I carry with me. That has a backup of my files at home and work. Finally all files are backed up to CD/DVD as a monthly archive i.e. I take a backup of all of Jan 04 pictures etc. I reckon on being pretty safe with that lot.

That's why I do the DVD backup like you on a weekly basis. RAID5 is fairly stable - and I do disk refresh and scandisk at least once a month. I'm fairly paranoid so I'm more likely to replace a drive with a couple of bad sectors than wait for it to fail. I have a weird thing about not throwing data away so it's starting to become a problem finding enough space for this all. I've got 1.2tb of data, and it grows by at least a couple of gigs a week these days... I'm getting to the point where I need to balance HDD's and L series lenses in my meager budget :)

[5 Type]

Does any of you know if DVD are better than CDR in term of longevity.

I know that CDR have different type of coating and lots of them have are short term longevity "5years".

Is it the same thing for DVD? I guess so.

In the new version of nero you can check you CDR quality :
In CD SPEED, go in DISK INFO....

I've got a surprise from my new batch of blanks....
Manifacturer : Lead Data
DIE TYPE 4, LONG TRATEGY, (CYANINE, AZO)

[sparktography]

Does any of you know if DVD are better than CDR in term of longevity.

I know that CDR have different type of coating and lots of them have are short term longevity "5years".

Is it the same thing for DVD? I guess so.

It depends on if you get archival quality DVD's or CD's. The standard ones last 5 years (or less!) but are cheap. A true archival quality DVD is going to set you back $5-10 depending on what quantity you buy them in. The archival quality CDR's that I buy are $180 a peice in 100pack spindles. Look for marking on the package that indicates a 25 year datalife or better - after all these are your data is important to you for more than 5 years!

[5 Type]

Take a look at my update....

I have also found a thread on another forum i'm going to.

Guys,

CD-R and DVD-R work on the same basic principle, sure.

BUT, 4.7 Gig (DVD-R) in the SAME AREA as 0.7 Gig (CD-R approx) means that track density and/or sector density (in general, recording density) has to be much higher: agreed?

This necessitates a change of materials/technique/dye/laser optics etc. etc (remember, we are not talking about pressed disks here).

Just because there is a number of years experience with CD-R manufacturing, we cannot assume that will translate to the new medium with immediate success (an analogy: western motorcycle manufacturers vs. japanese).

One thing for certain though, it WILL get better, we are still in the infancy of this technology (think manufacturing NOT computing - different timescales).

Big name brands will almost always be of higher quality, last longer & be more reliable (and COST MORE).

Cheapo no-name, me-too margin cutting manufacturers are turning out product based on PRICE, NOT QUALITY.

So hang in there, buy the good stuff for the burns you want to keep & use the cheap stuff for give-aways & short-term use.

Have Fun...

source : http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/62495

[theoldmoose]

cdsleeves has a good treatment on CD life. The short answer: use Mitsumi Gold or Kodak Ultima Gold only -- all others are crap. You might try Maxell Pro, though, they claim archival life, but I've not seen any independent testing done on them.

I have yet to find any industry verbage on lifetime of recordable DVDs. For the moment, I've been using Verbatim Datalifes, but only because they make a claim (someplace) for archival quality. I'd really like to see something more definitive, though.

[iwatkins]

I work from home (nowt to do with photography) so I have back up needs for my work stuff (code mainly).

We visit the missus's parents every Sunday for dinner (sunday roast, you can't stop me).

So, I bought a pair of USB2/Firewire external drives. One sits over at their house, one sits at home. I backup everything on to the one that is at home during the week. On Sundays, they get swapped over.

This way I always have an offsite copy that is never more than a week old. And I always have an onsite copy that is less than a day old, but is at risk of fire/theft/mega tsunami etc.

As the disks are big (250Gb each) I can also back up my latest home stuff, i.e. photos onto the system as well.

Works for me.

Cheers

Ian

[CyberDyneSystems]

What if... let say... you get robbed (stolen) or if your house get in fire.

On my side, I burn DVD and store them else where (ie : at a frien place).

Currently I have no "Off site" storage,. I agree it is a good idea in some sense,. but photography is not my livelihood,. so if my house burns down,. I am not convinced the loss of my images wil be my first concern..