I am way excited

[J. Cobble]

I was at the Daytona 200 shooting from the stands. Got some great shots (in my opinion) with my 100-400 l is. Anyway, I just happened to be in the corner where a high profile factory rider crashed with a backmarker. They got into a pretty heavy fight which is big news in the roadracing industry. I got four good shots of it and sent them to a national racing magazine that I read. My real goal is to get press passes for some national races. I wrote the editor and owner of the mag and told him that he could use the photos, that I really wasnt trying to sell them to him but that I would like to get press passes and cover some races that I go to anyway for him. He called me yesterday, said he was going to use the pics, going to pay me the standard rate and didnt see any problem with getting me press passes. (RFMSports, Jim I am the guy that was asking you how to get passes like that!). Whether it will happens or not who knows, but I am excited that he called. I really dont want or need the money, I just want to get close to the action so I can get some really good shots! I am stoked! :lol:

[ssim]

Congrats on getting published. How about sharing the images here.

[J. Cobble]

You know, as dumb as this sounds, I dont have a web site to link to yet. I just started shooting digital two months ago. In fact, I am not really sure how to post pics. Maybe someone could give me the "workflow" of how to set it up in the future.

[defordphoto]

Awsome! Congratulations. But, never EVER deny yourself money. These people pay big $$$ for photos and to deny yourself that just because you're not a professional is silly. You got the photo and all their pros missed it. THAT is what matters. Now you have your foot in the door. Enjoy it. Shoot your heart out.

Many times the "old-crew" that shoots and shoots for what seems like centuries becomes complacent and lazy. Get out there and kick some photo-butt!!!

Also, the proper terminology is media credentials and not press passes. You'll show you're a newb if you call them press passes. Also, one of THE most important things (other than all the safety stuff) to remember is to NEVER, EVER ask drivers/teams members for autographs when using your credentials. That is major taboo and I have seen people's crdentials pulled and physically escorted from the track because of it.

You'll be carrying professional media credentials. Be the professsional! At first it can be hard cause it's so freaking exciting, but just be very careful. I always worry about newbies at the track. The danger factor is so, so incredibly high.

Congratulations, Cobble.

[J. Cobble]

Thanks for the advice Jim. I have actually been on the track at Daytona twice on my bike at over 150 mph so I know about the danger. :lol: And thanks for the autograph advice. These guys do impress me! Too cool. I have to tell you, that shot you posted of the pit stop at the CART races was a real inspiration. And.....yeah, media credentials....that's the ticket!

[IndyJeff]

J. Cobble while I enjoy your enthusiasm, I must take exception with your statement

I wrote the editor and owner of the mag and told him that he could use the photos, that I really wasnt trying to sell them to him but that I would like to get press passes and cover some races that I go to anyway for him.

This is what is killing the freelance market, too many people getting a digital camera and getting a credential just for the opportunity to be "at the event". There are guys who make a living shooting racing and other sporting events. When guys come along who are willing to do it for free, well I guess you get the point. It is hard enough to compete with Getty, let alone freebie shooters.
Last year Speed Sport News wanted one of my images, I said ok $150 for one time usage. The guy then informed me that they are doing me a favor by getting my name out there and they don't pay for pics. I said well then use someone elses. Turns out that no one else had as good a shot as I did, so they never ran the shot.
I will try and post the shot from another source when I get it posted tomorrow.


I wasn't the only guy there but I was the only one who moved to get the shot without shooting thru the chain link fence.

As long as people give away their work, it will be harder and harder for people to make a living at it.

Big cheer for the publisher that insisted on paying you the standard rate. Now you have your foot in the door, make good of it and get some great shots. Beware of selling pics to the public tho. Most series frown on that. You will, I know and I have done it too, just as every other guy with a credential does. Just don't get caught or the party is over.


p.s Welcome to the media shooter club

[IndyJeff]

RFM I remember a few years back at the 500, I can't remember who all was involved but Kenny Brack was one of them. They had a crash involving 2 or 3 cars on the pace lap. ABC didn't get it, Telex didn't get it but some guy in the stands did and sold his video of the crash happening for get this....an ABC sports hat on the spot and a jacket to be delivered to his home later. What a fish.

I imagine he could have easily gotten $500 but, now he has that nice jacket and hat to sport when he goes out. LOL

[timmyquest]

awsome man!

[defordphoto]

RFM I remember a few years back at the 500, I can't remember who all was involved but Kenny Brack was one of them. They had a crash involving 2 or 3 cars on the pace lap. ABC didn't get it, Telex didn't get it but some guy in the stands did and sold his video of the crash happening for get this....an ABC sports hat on the spot and a jacket to be delivered to his home later. What a fish.

I imagine he could have easily gotten $500 but, now he has that nice jacket and hat to sport when he goes out. LOL

Actually I remember that video. A jacket and a hat! Sheesh, bonus for ABC! He should have got 4-figures worth. What a twit!

That's why I say, never turn down the money. If they don't want to pay then I have no problem keeping that photo in my catalog AND posting it on the Net!

[IndyJeff]

When the race was over and we found out all he got was a hat and a jacket I told him he should have shopped that around to one of the local stations instead of ABC. One of the locals would have paid him at least $500 and then shopped it off to others and made their money back, no doubt.


I agree with you Jim, if you want it for free, it will look better on my wall for free as it will in your publication for free.

LOL Let one of those magazine/newspaper guys stand out in the heat and sun for hours upon end and see how much they want to give away for free.

[J. Cobble]

I get the picture. no pun intended. Anyway, there is no compitiion here. I really want the pics for my own use. I just like taking good pics. Unfortunately you have to do something to get in position to do it.

[CoolToolGuy]

I got my first credential unexpectedly by being in the right place at the right time and at that point, the bragging rights with the crowd that I attended races with were enough, much less getting paid for the photos. After the first one, the commercial element crept in. I knew I was not going to make photography my career (although I'm good enough at it :lol: ), but I did expect to be compensated at the going rate. It ran its course, and when the USGP left Watkins Glen, we parted ways.

I can understand how a working pro can get upset with a situation that is essentially a giveaway, but it is not likely that the tide will turn any time soon. The pros will always prevail, as they produce hundreds of high quality images in a weekend, and the giveaway guy probably got the best image (or video) of his life. Even if a career starts like that, it won't exist for long on freebies unless mortgages and groceries become free as well.

From the media or sponsor perspective, they want what they want, and they want to pay as little for it as possible. You can't really blame them for that, it's just good business (and probably gives them their bragging rights as well).

All of which is one man's opinion. :)

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[defordphoto]

LOL Let one of those magazine/newspaper guys stand out in the heat and sun for hours upon end and see how much they want to give away for free.

Ain't that the truth! I'm trying to educate these Jet Sprint folks that we work hard for these photos and they don't come cheap. If you want cheap photos then have Suzie shoot them with a P&S and knock yourself out. You want professional stuff, then we'll talk. But, I'm getting some Jet Sprint stuff published so that makes up for all of that in the long run.

[defordphoto]

CoolTool: We're not upset about people giving away stuff for free like that, just that they're stupid for doing it when they should be making a few bucks in addition to that proverbial hat and jacket. Personally, I could care less. What people do not realize is how willing these people (publications, etc.) are to pay for the photos/videos/images and they talk themselves out of a decent deal.

That being said, J. Cobble worked it perfectly, though almost talking himself out of some money, and now he's got his foot in the door and some media credentials in hand that are not easy to come by.

[CoolToolGuy]

CoolTool: We're not upset about people giving away stuff for free like that, just that they're stupid for doing it when they should be making a few bucks in addition to that proverbial hat and jacket. Personally, I could care less. What people do not realize is how willing these people (publications, etc.) are to pay for the photos/videos/images and they talk themselves out of a decent deal.

That being said, J. Cobble worked it perfectly, though almost talking himself out of some money, and now he's got his foot in the door and some media credentials in hand that are not easy to come by.

Jim,

I hear you - what I'm just suggesting is that many amateurs may think it is the coolest thing just to be published, and it may happen so fast that the thrill of that is enough. When reality hits, they may realize they missed an opportunity for getting paid for it.

I guess I was partly reacting to another recent thread related to wedding photographers and amateurs that dabble in that market. Sorry.

Have Fun
Rick 8)

[IndyJeff]

Oh I remember my first time I had a shot go over the AP wire. I was on a natural high like I had never been on before. The next day when a cousin calls from Chicago, my uncles from N. Carolina and Colorado and my mom from Atlanta to ask me if the picture in the paper with my name is really mine, I was so proud to say HELL YES. Then I get to the track and 2 guys come up with different papers and there was my picture, with my photo credit, oh man what a feeling. There were at least 9 other AP guys in the turn when that crash happened, some of them had been there over twenty years and AP used my shot. Hell yeah, I was happy. Funny thing, so were all 9 of those guys. They were glad to see that after 2 years I finally had a transmission. One guy Tom Walsh laughed and said it took him 5 years. Now these were all guys I respected as photograhers.
That was the second time I had been published tho but this one was the AP wire. The first one was the Stan Fox crash of 95, my first Indy 500. UPI screwed up my film and while in the Kodak suite getting it printed in B&W a writer from Portugal asked if he could buy the pic for $100. Of course I said yeah. It only ran in Europe so I never got to see it.
The AP was world wide and I made $150 off of it.

http://racing-action-images.com/media/JohnPaulJr~5-21-99.jpg

When I first started, the inagural Brickyard 400, I was talking with an old timer. I still to this day remember what he said, "UPI ain't ****, they don't pay you diddly squat but, you have your foot in the door. The first chance you get to jump that ship and get on with AP, do it. Don't look back just go."

I still fight and preach to guys I have known for 10 years now about don't give pictures away, sell them. I always used to say that nobody gives you film to start the month or pays for printing. I have been just as guilty of giving away pictures as the next guy. Now I sell the pictures or I get compensated in other ways.

As for J. Cobble, I am VERY happy for him. He now has his foot in the door and with someone who will pay him. Nothing beats going out and doing something that well, makes you wake up after 3-4 hours sleep and endure a 14 hour day and love it.
When I found out AP was going all digital, I just about died. I decided that I couldn't afford not to join the revolution. Watching the Indy 500 from the stands is just not an option for me.

The thing that scares me the most about freelance photography, someday publishers may charge you for the credential and not pay for the usage. Trust me as soon as someone thinks of it, it will happen. And trust me when I say, there are clods out there that would pay $50 for the access you get with a Media Credentail.

[J. Cobble]

Here is a link to the website of the publication. Follow the links to the Yates story.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/

CoolToolGuy, let me restate my point. I have no desire to make photography a career although I too am good enough to do that. It is a hobby, plain and simple. When I told the guy I didnt want to be paid for the pics it was because I have raced in his classes before, have taken the magazine for 10 years and I like the guy. I own the largest architectural company on the west coast of Florida. I have been an architect for 20 years and have been doing architectural photography for longer than that. Accordingly, I really didnt care for your "best picture of his life" comment very much.

I want media credentials because I want to get closer to the action. Motorcycle racing is another one of my hobbies and I follow the pros closely. I dont give ANYTHING away in my business. I too would be upset if people gave away architectural services which by the way they almost do. I understand your point.

[CoolToolGuy]

J. Cobble,

Oh excrement, I truly apologize if I ticked you off, and I assure you that comment was not aimed at you, although I fully understand how you would think so.

This is one of the hazards of the forum style of communication. I started out to respond to your post in this one and I realized that someone else might take offense at what I was saying, so I killed that one.

Peyote is illegal, and I quit smoking a pipe years ago, but can we share the symbolic peace pipe and move on to bashing Nikon and Sony (should be a safe comment on this board)? And if we ever meet face-to-face I'll buy you a beer as we discuss true issues like how the Japanese motorcycle industry killed British bikes (shields up).

Have Fun
Rick :oops: EmbarrasedToolGuy

[J. Cobble]

absolutely! You really didnt offend me :lol: Its's all good!

[IndyJeff]

LOL Don't that just about give you a woody seeing the PHOTOS BY YOUR NAME...........

I still dig the hell out of it.

Good shots BTW


Jeff


edit: J Cobble check your private messages

[Bruce Hamilton]

... give you a woody seeing the PHOTOS BY YOUR NAME...........
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Who won the fight, Fania or Yates? Loved Fania's little flip off move... :lol:

[J. Cobble]

Actually, Yates collect him in the turn and took him out. Yates was running second in the 200 with about 4 laps to go. Because of the fight started by Yates, (pro rider for Suzuki), Susuki fined Yates $25000.00, the AMA fined him $5000.00 and suspended him for another race which means he is not in the championship.

[hogzilla]

I was hanging out reading your threads and got to thinking,when you sent the photos to the mag do you put a watermark on them if you don't what would stop them from just using them? I know you did'nt want to get payed but how about if you did.