getting that first job

[pete_cf]

is there any advice for "photography virgins" who have yet to find a job ... i'm reading a couple books on making cash in photography but they dont really advise how to get that job and get started ...... can i ask how ya'll got your first job and what it was and all that good stuff? aside from having a portfolio and whatnot, rather how did you actually come across it or find it ..... share your wisdom with the grunts living in the sewers ..... like me ;)

[liza]

Endless marketing and working 20 hour days is how one typically starts. Many photographers take a loss for the first few years until they can become established in a particular area. I make my money from people photography, specifically sports, events, portraits, and weddings. The field has become very, very crowded with all the...individuals who want to make a few extra bucks and undercut the rest of us in terms of price. My wedding packages range in price from 1.5K to 3K, and today one of the local yokels advertised his weddings for $899, which included a CD of all the images. It's tough to compete with jerks like that.

If you're going to do it, consider charging the prevailing rate in your community. You can do a search on Google in your area for photographer's websites.

[Lightchaser]

The field has become very, very crowded with all the...individuals who want to make a few extra bucks and undercut the rest of us in terms of price.

This season I've started having a couple of major problems with this. Competing on quality is one thing, but competing on 'FREE!' is another. I'm having to find other markets.

[Lightchaser]

Sorry - that's quite off track isn't it. To answer the Q, I'd suggest there are two ways you could approach it - either find a subject you enjoy shooting and then find out who'd want photos of it (like a sport for example), or find a gap in the market and then fill it e.g. is there a new business in your area who might need images for brochures etc? Either way, decide on what you're targetting and then go hammer and tongs - hand out cards, spread the word and most of all build positive relationships with the decision makers. And even the non-decision makers (cause you never know when they're in disguise heh heh).

[TeeJay]

This season I've started having a couple of major problems with this. Competing on quality is one thing, but competing on 'FREE!' is another. I'm having to find other markets.

Sorry - that's quite off track isn't it.

Doesn't stop it from being true though! :(

[Gary_Evans]

......... Competing on quality is one thing, but competing on 'FREE!' is another.

Why is it? Competing against "FREE" is easy, if you think about it.

Firstly offer something different to what the freebie merchants do, make your client understand the difference between what they get for free and what they get for a small payment - and then what they get when they pay a proper rate. And if you cant do that ask them to justify why they expect you to work for nothing. Most people cant, which puts you at an advantage.

If a client says that photographer X will do it, try calling their bluff and say to book him then. Works quite often - trust me.

Acting professionally makes a difference to, as does simple things like the quality of your stationary.

Someone who does something for free means they are cutting corners somewhere - print quality?, mounts?, frames? Find that weakness and exploit it.

Show me a plumber who works for free, or a doctor, or ................... Yet the photography world is full of people who think that the only way to market is to shout "FREE" all the time.

Also, Liza's comment is a bizarre one. How can you take a loss for the first few years? - unless of course you are shooting as a second job. And if you were competing against me for an event, that would be the first difference between you and me I would point out to the client :D :D

[canonboy]

whats the job in? Do you do advertising? Family Portraits? Weddings? Christenings? Porn?

[PhotosGuy]

whats the job in? Do you do advertising? Family Portraits? Weddings? Christenings? Porn? More detailed questions always are a help to us.
Without that, maybe do some work for your favorite charity so people get to meet you.
I was shooting a car last year & this bride-to-be asked, "Do you do weddings?"
Me: "Not unless the MOB holds a shotgun on me?" ;)

STARTING OUT... Business Startup Questions
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=192034

How did you become a pro (or semi-pro)?
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41194

Turning Pro by David Henderson
http://www.photo.net/learn/turningpro.html

Business aspects of pro
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=208873

[rhys]

This season I've started having a couple of major problems with this. Competing on quality is one thing, but competing on 'FREE!' is another. I'm having to find other markets.

A friend was trying to get his book published. The "vanity" publishers were all over him. I don't know whether he found a real publisher though. Everybody wants free and has to be forced to pay these days. It is almost getting to the point where you have to hold a gun to customer's heads!

[liza]

Also, Liza's comment is a bizarre one. How can you take a loss for the first few years? - unless of course you are shooting as a second job. And if you were competing against me for an event, that would be the first difference between you and me I would point out to the client :D :D

It's not at all bizarre, and I find the use of that word quite insulting. Many people begin working part time with another full time job due to the necessity for health benefits. I have to pay for health benefits privately since medical care isn't free here. And I still have a stronger work ethic than the local "professional." As I previously stated, I often work 20 hour days to provide quality services to my client base. Please don't imply that part time status means lesser quality. Because it doesn't. :evil:

[Gary_Evans]

It's not at all bizarre, and I find the use of that word quite insulting. Many people begin working part time with another full time job due to the necessity for health benefits. I have to pay for health benefits privately since medical care isn't free here. And I still have a stronger work ethic than the local "professional." As I previously stated, I often work 20 hour days to provide quality services to my client base. Please don't imply that part time status means lesser quality. Because it doesn't. :evil:


It wasnt meant as an insult - that is why I put the smileys.

Despite what you may have read/heard/believe - not much of the NHS is free. Just so you know I am currently paying the equivilent of $5500 for treatment to my daughters teeth and $800 a week for an elderly relatives care. Hardly free is it?

Working longer hours doenst necessarily imply stronger work ethics, it could mean a disorganised desk, the same as having made almost 7000 posts compared to 180 ish, does not make you right and me wrong. There are two sides to every story and I am providing you with another.

I will not get into a personal argument with you over this. I was merely stating how I would sell myself against you when pitching for the same job.

Except we wont compete as we are on two different continents. :lol: :lol: More Smileys :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ssim]

I think if alot of us went back and looked at our very first couple of jobs the majority of us would reply that they were for friends, relatives or friends of them. Trying to get a first job outside of this circle is going to take more effort.

I spent 2 years working part time for a studio owner. He had 2 studios in the city and in the beginning I was nothing more than a gopher that progressed to allowing me to shoot settings unsupervised. When I decided to start to freelance on my own I felt like I was prepared as did he. In fact he helped me out by selling me some of his lighting equipment that he wanted to replace along with some medium format gear. He did pass me a wedding or two when he couldn't handle them but I was on my own beyond that. Still most of the jobs came from people I worked with or someone they knew. That was over 20 years ago.

I got to do some commercial work for my employer which they paid very well for. This combined with the odd wedding and portraits was enough to keep me satisfied and allow me to support my photographic habit.

I took a break for a few years when my children were being raised. I only took the odd job here or there, things that interested me or for good friends. Raising my children was more important than being gone all day Saturday for a wedding. I had a very nice full time job so generating income wasn't the number one priority.

Fast forward many years and my wife passed away suddenly, the children were away at university so I decided to take it up again. I started to freelance mostly for friends. Then I decided to take early retirement from my full time job and do this full time. Now I was at a point where I could no longer survive on just family and friends for jobs.

I never was exceptionally good at selling myself. You have to recognize what your strengths and weaknesses are. You either try to fix those weaknesses and exploit your strengths or you fail.

I was more than amply equipped. I picked up a couple of jobs here and there but still wasn't getting what I liked. I even had a hard time stopping in at a bridal boutique and asking them to let me put up a business card or flyer. Once I could get a meeting with someone I was fine, it was trying to get that first meeting that I struggled with.I ended up hiring a small marketing company that would do some promotional work for me. This was probably the best decision that I could have made. They did the door knocking for me, something that I realized was a weakness of my own. They got me an interview with a local advertising agency. It was a small but a national firm that were not happy with the photographers that they had been using up to then. I shoot almost exclusively for them now. It is the kind of work that is not invaded by the weekend warriors so the pricing is where it should be.

Other things that I did to get those first few jobs once I went fulltime was that I did some volunteer photo work for a non profit organization which has returned many paid jobs. I calculate that I put in approx 30 hours worth of volunteer time which has returned close to two months worth of salary. I joined the local chamber of commerce and made sure that I went to the social events and passed out business cards (this was hard for me but I did it). I donated a large print to a charity auction that fetched 1100.00 and got noticed by a local art gallery which I now sell through.

You don't say what kind of photography that you want to work in. I will agree with Liza in that it takes alot of hard work. I don't recommend working for free or close to it. The only reason you are getting a job then is based purely on price point and not on creativity or quality. Anyone can stay very busy if they work for nothing.

Get yourself a commercial website that will showcase your stuff. In my case I haven't needed one as I have enough to keep me busy though I am considering it. Get out and knock on doors. This is not going to be direct to customers perse, but places that will give you referrals. Places like bridal boutiques, art galleries. There are many small independently run restaurants around here that will take in a photographers work and let them hang it for a few months.

I'd be interested to hear what you have done for yourself so far in this respect.

[delhi]

^^^ Much agreed. I started out and still am with people that I know. Slowly building from there. Since this is not my full time job, I am not pressured to grow it quickly or market incessantly. But I do have a goal that I set to achieve by year's end.
In terms of marketing, I am not the spray and pray kind.... rather to establish a working relationship with each client. Again it depends on what you shoot.

[floydianslip6]

Looks like you have some good starting points already covered. I think its important to mention that when you start to get out and look for jobs and everything it can get exciting. Always keep whatever goal you have in your head for being a pro-photographer in mind. It's very easy to accept the status quo and that's why so many people live in the undercutting area of a market. The money's fast, even though it's not what it could be. Always keep in mind "what can this job do for me..." when you're starting out.

I find there are lots of poeple looking to help "new photographers" get "portfolio building experience". That's garbage, the majority of those jobs are worthless. Anyways, not to rant, but just keep in mind your final goal and select jobs to make that climb easier, always work to the next level.

It seems like an easy thing to do now, but the input cost in photography can put you in debt quick and it's not hard to stay too long in limbo.

[PhotosGuy]

I find there are lots of poeple looking to help "new photographers" get "portfolio building experience". That's garbage, the majority of those jobs are worthless. That wasn't my experience, so I'd be interested to see some specific examples of what "the majority of those jobs" refers to?

[sirsloop]

...The field has become very, very crowded with all the...individuals who want to make a few extra bucks and undercut the rest of us in terms of price. My wedding packages range in price from 1.5K to 3K, and today one of the local yokels advertised his weddings for $899, which included a CD of all the images. It's tough to compete with jerks like that.

If you're going to do it, consider charging the prevailing rate in your community. You can do a search on Google in your area for photographer's websites.

Sorry but I find this reply pretty hilarious. If that "local yokel" can do it for $899 and make money then good for them!! Its not their job to scan the local market and set their price point within what you have decided to charge people. Heck, ~6 hours shooting and a couple nights proofing photos for a CD sounds WELL WORTH 900 bucks! As you probably know, book design time and costs of books is what jacks the price of wedding photography into the 3k+ range.

I've run into people in person that had the same opinion of me. How dare I only charge X for a print, or whatever. I'm sure there are TONS of people who do the same thing I do... shoot A LOT, put the photos on smugmug, and sell exclusively on the internet. Makes it much easier to turn profit when you dont have rent and utility bills monthly from your studio that you are only in to edit photos :) . All I need to do is make sure I buy a bunch of toys every year so uncle sam doesnt tax the hell out of me :)

[floydianslip6]

That wasn't my experience, so I'd be interested to see some specific examples of what "the majority of those jobs" refers to?

Well you slightly miss read. I mean the majority of those types of jobs aren't really worth it. Not that the majority of jobs out there are like that.

But, if you're looking to see what I'm talking about all you need to do is take a browse around your local online community forum like craigslist and look for some photography jobs.

I'm not only refering to strictly no pay jobs but also ridiculous low-ball offers:

$300 - $500 for 8 hour wedding:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/med/261043389.html

$8-$10/hour all day shooting:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/etc/264092962.html

Photography assistant as a shooter $0:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/crg/274468751.html

Alternative night life photographer $75/month:
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/crg/270297294.html

Casting Agency Needs Pro Photographers $0:
http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/crg/259923338.html

Shall I continue?

[delhi]

^^^ Ouch Ouch Ouch. Time to put down the camera and take up Shiatsu massage. :(

[PhotosGuy]

^^^ Ouch Ouch Ouch. Time to put down the camera and take up Shiatsu massage. :D Shall I continue? No, that will do! This wedding one, "Photography assistant as a shooter $0", may be the best one for someone who wants to learn.
You're right in the case of that list. Not a place to find reasonable jobs.

[liza]

You don't say what kind of photography that you want to work in. I will agree with Liza in that it takes alot of hard work. I don't recommend working for free or close to it. The only reason you are getting a job then is based purely on price point and not on creativity or quality. Anyone can stay very busy if they work for nothing.


Thank you, Sheldon. This is precisely the point. People can stay very busy working for nothing. They tend to forget that their time has value. And many of them don't pay taxes or business expenses, so they can afford to charge next to nothing.

Sorry but I find this reply pretty hilarious. If that "local yokel" can do it for $899 and make money then good for them!! Its not their job to scan the local market and set their price point within what you have decided to charge people. Heck, ~6 hours shooting and a couple nights proofing photos for a CD sounds WELL WORTH 900 bucks! As you probably know, book design time and costs of books is what jacks the price of wedding photography into the 3k+ range.

I've run into people in person that had the same opinion of me. How dare I only charge X for a print, or whatever. I'm sure there are TONS of people who do the same thing I do... shoot A LOT, put the photos on smugmug, and sell exclusively on the internet. Makes it much easier to turn profit when you dont have rent and utility bills monthly from your studio that you are only in to edit photos :) . All I need to do is make sure I buy a bunch of toys every year so uncle sam doesnt tax the hell out of me :)

They aren't making money if they're only charging $899. If you factor in your for shooting and postprocessing, business and equipment costs, and taxes, you make nothing. Some of the albums I offer cost nearly that much for me to purchase from the vendor. And as for buying "toys" to offset taxes, you had better reexamine that. You can't deduct the entire cost of equipment. It must be depreciated over time.

[floydianslip6]

:D No, that will do! This wedding one, "Photography assistant as a shooter $0", may be the best one for someone who wants to learn.
You're right in the case of that list. Not a place to find reasonable jobs.

Yeah maybe it's just my area of the country but there are always job postings like that. It can be pretty disheartening. Everyone wants "creative, qualified, professional" at "un-creative,-un-qualified,un-professional" prices.

But yeah there are lots of opportunities to be an assistant photog that are great just make sure that you hook up with someone you admire.

[chtgrubbs]

Also, Liza's comment is a bizarre one. How can you take a loss for the first few years? - unless of course you are shooting as a second job. And if you were competing against me for an event, that would be the first difference between you and me I would point out to the client :D :D

When you factor in start-up costs and fixed costs (equipment purchases, advertising costs, phone and utilities, studio rental, accountant and legal fees,etc) it is very easy to operate at a loss until your volume of business grows enough to cover your costs and provide you with some income. Which is why most starting photographers either switch over gradually from another job or have a working spouse or a trust fund!

Yes, it is very good business and marketing practice to point out to potential clients the higher level of product and service that you provide, but the bottom line is that if they have only $800 to spend for wedding photographs, and you charge $2000, then they are going to hire someone else. Also, American consumer culture is driven by a bargain hunting mentality, and if someone can get 80% of the quality for 50% of the money, they will do it. Lastly, it is simple economic principle that as more people try to break into the photo business, rates will come down due to competition.

[Lonnie]

I actually hooked up with a photographer through my job - poker dealer.

He's going to let me start out as a 3rd shooter, then let me move to 2nd shooter after a few weddings, provided my work is good.

I've been talking to the guy about photography for a few months now, and finally asked him the other day if they ever need second shooters.

Lucky!

[SoccerRef]

...Which is why most starting photographers either switch over gradually from another job or have a working spouse or a trust fund!

Where Can I get a "trust fund"???


lhoney - you weren't "Lucky". You were adventurous enough to step out on a limb and ask a question. Good for you!

A great man once said, "A foolish man waits for opportunity to come knocking. The smart man goes knocking, and keeps knocking 'till opportunity answers."