How many of you charge by hour?

[Photolistic]

I was thinking of doing this type of pricing:

$300 per hour (for the first 4 hours)
$100 per hour after that

-unlimited locations
-$100 print credit
-website with all images


optional extras
DVD with slide show
DVD with all printable high rez photos ($500 maybe?)
custom designed storybook

Does this sound good? Anything I should take off? Add?

[liza]

I wouldn't do that. Instead, it would be better after you gain more experience and acquire adeqate equipment to price your packages for a flat price that includes the number of hours, print credit, album, slideshow, etc.

[newgenphoto]

I do it on an EXTREMELY rare case. More less only hook ups for friends and family and if my schedule is REALLY light around that time of the event.

[Photolistic]

I wouldn't do that. Instead, it would be better after you gain more experience and acquire adeqate equipment to price your packages for a flat price that includes the number of hours, print credit, album, slideshow, etc.


More equipment? What more would I need?

[liza]

About twice that amount of memory, since you need to shoot RAW for weddings, and another flash.

[Photolistic]

I do it on an EXTREMELY rare case. More less only hook ups for friends and family and if my schedule is REALLY light around that time of the event.

Why do you prefer packages?

[liza]

If a bride sees a $300 charge per hour, she's likely to move on quickly to someone else. Packages, while probably more expensive, give the illusion that they're getting more for their money.

[Photolistic]

If a bride sees a $300 charge per hour, she's likely to move on quickly to someone else. Packages, while probably more expensive, give the illusion that they're getting more for their money.

I see what your saying, but really its the pictures that should help decide... with the price in mind.

Seriously though. I don't think brides will go to a site looking for a wedding photographer and not look at the pictures just because of the price. (too high or too low)

[cwphoto]

I charge by the hour after they have exhausted the hours in their package.

Eg; $1,100 for the first two hours, plus $110 per hour thereafter etc.

[jessiper]

Packages, while probably more expensive, give the illusion that they're getting more for their money.

Bingo. ;)

[cwphoto]

I totally agree. If I was looking for a photographer and saw something that said 300 per hour, I would turn away no matter what the pics looked like, but this is just me.

Why is that?

I use a combination (packaging plus hourly rate), but I wouldn't be turned off by just a flat rate.

I used to just offer a day rate, but that was over ten years ago when you'll do anything for the work. Now Í discourage clients not to book for the whole reception by financially penalising them; it's the most un-necessary part of the wedding from a photography viewpoint and quite frankly after 1,000 weddings I have better things to do given the choice.

I'd look at the work first and if it's up to scratch the rest is just a financial negotiation.

[Photolistic]

If all someone charged was by the hour and had no package flat rate prices, I would be turned off by that and would start adding up the hours times the price in my head and would freak out and every hour, I would think.. there went 300 dollars! Also, I would worry about how many hours I could afford and might limit the hours and miss some shots because of it. I am fine with charging an hourly rate after the hours in the package are expired, just not flat hourly and that's it. But, like I said... that's just my preference if I was the bride.

Well really most wedding photographers will be charging $100 or more per additional hour after the hours in their package run out.

So its really like the same thing.

[Photolistic]

I'd look at the work first and if it's up to scratch the rest is just a financial negotiation.

I would do the same, and I think most brides would too.

[Photolistic]

Right, I'm not talking about the rate charged by the hour after your time runs out that's included in the package. I am just saying that personally I would not pay by the hour for my entire ceremony, reception, etc. The cost would bother me more if I looked at it by the hour instead of by the event. That's just the way my brain is wired. I think about it the same way in terms of how much I make an hour at my current job. I'd rather look at what I am getting at the end of the week. I dunno. Like I said, this is just me. The OP is free to charge by the hour if the OP wants to. I just wouldn't pay by the hour if I was the bride and I asked my friend who is over and she agrees. But, that will not be the way everyone thinks or feels. :-)

Thanks for your input.

[th3r0m]

I have to agree that there is a greater perception of value from the b&g standpoint if the package includes coverage + images in some medium. But it could also run both ways ie a bride looking for minimal coverage may be attracted by an hourly price rather than only more expensive overall coverage prices. Guess it depends on who you want to cater to.

[italianfemmy]

I deleted my posts since they were not of value here. I apologize.

[Rellik]

For me, I don't like the idea of charging hourly. All my packages have all day coverage in it. This is a personal thing, but I want to give the coverage that is most worry free for me and the couple. Firstly, the couple wouldn't have to worry about time running out and getting charged another hour. They have enough things to stress about that day so I don't want to be a factor in that. Secondly, I will be there the whole day, so people will get used to my presence and having a camera in front of them. This will give more relaxed and natural pictures. Thirdly, less stress for me (if that's possible ;) )

[Phil V]

For me, I don't like the idea of charging hourly. All my packages have all day coverage in it. This is a personal thing, but I want to give the coverage that is most worry free for me and the couple. Firstly, the couple wouldn't have to worry about time running out and getting charged another hour. They have enough things to stress about that day so I don't want to be a factor in that. Secondly, I will be there the whole day, so people will get used to my presence and having a camera in front of them. This will give more relaxed and natural pictures. Thirdly, less stress for me (if that's possible ;) )
Exactly my philosophy.

[tim]

I changed from "all day" coverage to 8 hours after a 14 hour day once. Way too long. I do packages, because people seem to like them, with time, album, DVD, etc included. High res images is extra, though i'm pondering that, given what I charge and my position in the market.

[cwphoto]

For me, I don't like the idea of charging hourly. All my packages have all day coverage in it. This is a personal thing, but I want to give the coverage that is most worry free for me and the couple. Firstly, the couple wouldn't have to worry about time running out and getting charged another hour. They have enough things to stress about that day so I don't want to be a factor in that. Secondly, I will be there the whole day, so people will get used to my presence and having a camera in front of them. This will give more relaxed and natural pictures. Thirdly, less stress for me (if that's possible ;) )

Wait until you do your first fourteen hour or more gig, you'll change your tune.

I thought the same as you once, after a while you start to place a higher value on your time.

Give something away free and people exploit you for it/don't value it. Charge something and it soon sorts out how important those night shots really are to your clients.

[cwphoto]

I changed from "all day" coverage to 8 hours after a 14 hour day once. Way too long. I do packages, because people seem to like them, with time, album, DVD, etc included. High res images is extra, though i'm pondering that, given what I charge and my position in the market.

I'm with Tim ^^^.

[PIXI_666]

Standard packages seriously work better, that way you get your money BEFORE the wedding and if you work an hr over time then who cares u were paid right - rather than having to chase up that extra couple of hundred you know what i mean?

Del

[cwphoto]

Standard packages seriously work better, that way you get your money BEFORE the wedding and if you work an hr over time then who cares u were paid right - rather than having to chase up that extra couple of hundred you know what i mean?

Del

It's only the extra hour or two for which you get paid after the event, all of the package price is normally paid before. Never had a problem collecting the money, heck they normally spend another grand on extra pages anyway.

[Tiffany]

I agree with those that have changed from all day to 8 hours - a 14 hour day is NOT fun. Plus, I find it easier to estimate my costs per package if I go hourly. I estimate approximately 50 images per hour (I take more, but that's the final amount) so I can have a pretty good idea of what the proof book is going to cost me and how many images a couple is going to end up with. That helps me with pricing the packages accordingly.

I also would watch offering too few hours - I did a 4 hour package last year and found that it really stressed the amount of time people had and what I could get done. I've gone to a six hour minimum this year. I do have an "unlimited wedding day coverage" package but it is priced accordingly.

That said, I do have a rate for extra hours in my price list, so if we do go over their contracted hours or they want to add time but not bump up a package, they can. But really, 8 hours is more than enough to cover most of the events. The 10-12 hour packages really only work if you start out at the hair salon with the bride and go well into the reception!

[sapearl]

Some people are very successful at charging by hour and it works well for them. I do mostly weddings and social events like Bar Mitzvah's. I tried this out some years back and charging by the hour turned into one huge, "RENEGOTIATION" headache. I dropped the business model, although extra hours are still available for purchase on my contract.

I sell "day packages." In the long run it's simpler and less stressful for me. For the package's FLAT fee, everybody knows up front what they are getting, and how much it will go cost.

I look at it this way: Some jobs are long and the client makes out, for what I charged. Some days are shorter and I make out. At the end of the year it pretty much evens itself out, I feel good about the value I delivered, the customer is happy with what they received, and I'm pleased with the income earned. Keep it simple. ;) - Stu

[Photolistic]

for those of you that DO charge a flat package rate. How many hours do you usually include and what do you do if they want you to go over?

[Tiffany]

for those of you that DO charge a flat package rate. How many hours do you usually include and what do you do if they want you to go over?

My packages are set up with 6, 8, 10 or "unlimited" (typically 12) hours. They can add extra hours for $175 per hour.

[CyberPet]

I charge ala carte, which means that the first hour is always more expensive, and if we change locations I have "set up" fee's. I don't have a minimum hours as in Sweden it's not very common to cover a whole wedding day, so I charge for 1 hour portrait up to 4-5 hours normally. I've only shot one full day wedding so far, and that was a two day event! (Why not do it real, once I do it).

I only charge for the shoot - the creative time - and then the couple gets proofs online, nothing else. They pay for the prints, enlargements, etc beside that. This lets them choose how many images they want and they can pretty much be cheap, or go wild with the images.

As we don't do albums a lot, I just give them a pile of prints afterwards.

[sapearl]

for those of you that DO charge a flat package rate. How many hours do you usually include and what do you do if they want you to go over?

I only have one package that is a set time - 3 hours for a small wedding.

But in order to stay competitive with all the new people coming in with "Disk Only" pricing, "photo/video" packages, etc., I've had to include unlimited time and coverage with my other packages. It really is getting harder and harder to stay competitive with prices that keep dropping and clients who neither understand, appreciate or care about the skill and experience that goes into quality wedding coverage.

People want it NOW, they want it CHEAP, they are impressed by slick slideshows at the reception a couple of hours later that never enjoyed any sort of PP work.... just on a rant here... sorry, must be cabin fever setting in here.:rolleyes: - Stu

[jessiper]

I changed from "all day" coverage to 8 hours after a 14 hour day once. Way too long.

Yes, I say "All Day (up to 8 hours)" on one of my packages. It's exhausting!

[tim]

I have one base package, which includes 8 hours, the option comes from the final product - CD, prints, 12x12 album, 14x10 album, 24x12" album, etc. Actually I don't offer the 24x12" Queensberry album, it would have to be unreasonably large!

[lil_miss]

Having being on the other side of the argument as a bride myself - I passed photographers by who charged by the hour - regardless of how good they were. Purely because I didnt want to be restricted by time on "my" day. I didnt want to be worried that I'd only paid for a certain number of hours and didnt want to go over etc or I'd have to fork out more.. you shouldnt have to add that to your list for the day. You dont know how long a day it might be - things can happen beyond your control and it could take longer than expected.

Just my 2c :D

[Photolistic]

Hmm....

I was trying to convince myself that it was a good idea to charge by the hour. But I guess I was wrong. :(

[sapearl]

Having being on the other side of the argument as a bride myself - I passed photographers by who charged by the hour - regardless of how good they were. Purely because I didnt want to be restricted by time on "my" day. I didnt want to be worried that I'd only paid for a certain number of hours and didnt want to go over etc or I'd have to fork out more.. you shouldnt have to add that to your list for the day. You dont know how long a day it might be - things can happen beyond your control and it could take longer than expected.

Just my 2c :D

Another one of the MAJOR reasons I stopped charging by the hour years ago. ;) . The bride will always shop the competition if she sees better value elsewhere.

[CyberPet]

Funny how other people are the opposite. If you charge for a full day (8-10 hrs) and the day end early and you in fact only work 7, then you'll get yelled at for charging more than you were actually there shooting. I do have a package price for a full day, as the hourly price is not just 10 x my hourly rate.

[oldshooter]

I introduced some packages this year where I charge by the hour. But I am not sure if what others mean. They decide in advance how many hours they need me for coverage, with a starting base minimum of 4 hours. Coverage is usually 5-7 hours for most of the weddings I do any way. I make them pay for what they estimate they will need in advance of the wedding day. With the premium charge for hours above that on the wedding day. I get them to sign an amendment to to my contract should that occur and that sum is due at the end of the wedding.

Many years ago I had an unlimited package, and one time I had a bride that demanded I start when they arrived at the beauty salon at 7:30am. Her coverage ended at 12:00 am (16.5 hours!). She actually wanted me to stay longer, and I politely said the contract says, "all day coverage", and if I stayed any longer it would be TWO day coverage!

Mainly, I try to sell packages where they have a print credit, and could include extra services like albums, prints, parents albums. Some of my Happiest Customers were the ones that spent the most. Funny how that works?

[NickSimcheck]

I was trying to convince myself that it was a good idea to charge by the hour. But I guess I was wrong. :(

Do whatever you can sell. Which ever way you can convince the bride (and more importantly the person writing the checks) that she is getting more value with you by doing it this way, then that's the way you should do it.

If you can sell that it's cheaper because you're not paying for an entire day when the photographer might take off after 6 hours.

Or, you can sell that you don't have to worry about going over your hours and racking up a huge bill.

Do it whichever way you see fit.

Don't sell on price, don't sell on quality. Sell on value, the best quality for the price.

[Photolistic]

Don't sell on price, don't sell on quality. Sell on value, the best quality for the price.


I like that.

Another thing about not going hourly.... I have not heard of anyone complain about package pricing.

[NickSimcheck]

I like that.

Another thing about not going hourly.... I have not heard of anyone complain about package pricing.

It's been my family business motto for 36 years, and hasn't failed yet.

Another trick we have learned over the years, when a client says "Well so-and-so quoted me for $XXXX.XX" they are expecting you to either say you'll knock down your price, or they should hire so-and-so.

Tell'em that price is high for so-and-so and they should be able to get a better deal from them then that. Then they feel like so-and-so was taking advantage of them, or that he isn't worth what he's asking. Throws them into a complete tizzy!

But remember, don't bad mouth so-and-so. Say so-and-so is good for this-and-that and leave it at that. Bad mouthing only makes yourself look bad and doesn't do anybody good.

[liza]

But in order to stay competitive with all the new people coming in with "Disk Only" pricing, "photo/video" packages, etc., I've had to include unlimited time and coverage with my other packages. It really is getting harder and harder to stay competitive with prices that keep dropping and clients who neither understand, appreciate or care about the skill and experience that goes into quality wedding coverage.

People want it NOW, they want it CHEAP, they are impressed by slick slideshows at the reception a couple of hours later that never enjoyed any sort of PP work.... just on a rant here... sorry, must be cabin fever setting in here.:rolleyes: - Stu

I feel your pain, Stu. I haven't booked any weddings at all. Everyone is price shopping for $800 weddings that include all prints and a freaking CD! Quality seems to mean nothing. I'm glad most of my business revolves around portraits and sports.

Funny how other people are the opposite. If you charge for a full day (8-10 hrs) and the day end early and you in fact only work 7, then you'll get yelled at for charging more than you were actually there shooting. I do have a package price for a full day, as the hourly price is not just 10 x my hourly rate.

To avoid this, I state the time as "up to X hours" and include more print credit/options as the packages increase in price.

It's been my family business motto for 36 years, and hasn't failed yet.

Another trick we have learned over the years, when a client says "Well so-and-so quoted me for $XXXX.XX" they are expecting you to either say you'll knock down your price, or they should hire so-and-so.

Tell'em that price is high for so-and-so and they should be able to get a better deal from them then that. Then they feel like so-and-so was taking advantage of them, or that he isn't worth what he's asking. Throws them into a complete tizzy!

But remember, don't bad mouth so-and-so. Say so-and-so is good for this-and-that and leave it at that. Bad mouthing only makes yourself look bad and doesn't do anybody good.

I like the way you think. :D

[sapearl]

I feel your pain, Stu. I haven't booked any weddings at all. Everyone is price shopping for $800 weddings that include all prints and a freaking CD! Quality seems to mean nothing. I'm glad most of my business revolves around portraits and sports.

Sorry to hear that Liza - we are good photographers here, learning new techniques and making efforts to constantly add to our skill set... and yet the public doesn't understand it, or care to pay for it. I'm happy you are more successful in your sports bookings.

And to add to the competition - another thing I'm running into is the "All Inclusive DJ Package." This is where you have a DJ who not only provides the music for the anniversary, reception, bar mitzvah party or other social event, but he also gives you "photos" of the festivities, usually online by the following morning. I know for a fact that I have lost business to some of these people because of the cut rate pricing for "multiple services".

Let me be clear, I have nothing against DJ's - I have done some wonderful reception shoots with DJ's who provided me with an agenda for the evening, tipped me off if he knew something was going to happen, etc. These are wonderful people to team with and often make the evening go very smoothly for you. But they should stick to what they do best, and that is music.

Typically they'll have some young lady running around the hall with a $200 P&S, "covering the entire event for you" all at "no extra charge." Well, you get what you pay for - I've seen some of these DJ picture galleries. And yet people buy them because of that one low price. And the sad thing is they really don't know how much better things could have been.... or likely they don't care. - Stu

[cwphoto]

You dont know how long a day it might be - things can happen beyond your control and it could take longer than expected.

Just my 2c :D

Those things are out of the photographer's control too, why should he/she wear the cost?

[jbstudios]

I do offer by the hour 4,6,8. I also tell the bride they have full control of telling me what hours to start and right before the end i will ask if any additional shots are needed. They then can have me stay for additional timer per hour. Brides usually love that they are in control of what time i start. I tell them i can help direct them in what works the best but i find brides like to be in control & this gives them that power. i do offer a cd but its only for 4 hours and wont do add ons of hours. it would just take from my other packages that i will make more. But i created it for that bride that has to have the cd. a 4 hour package i do find stressful trying to get in all the shots, but that is something i have to remind them 4 hours they arent going to get all the photojournalistic shots. As long as i remind them of this i feel i have covered my end and that day i just need to remind myself over and over they are only getting 4 hours. I find packages the way to go, atleast for my business. Getting the money upfront is a big deal since i had issues with getting it after the wedding. Also offering prints, credit, albums with the packages is somehting i am doing too. Again they have already paid before the wedding and i am not relying on the prints afterwards. Have had issues with not ordering afterwards so this hopefully will solve that too =) again each business is different. I thought i had it right my first year and only after doing it did i then realize things & now are making adjustments. good luck

mrs jb

[Mike Reynolds]

I've found the B&G have a set budget and it's easier to charge a flat fee for a certain package and include a timeline in that package with an overtime clause. I've also learned that when you put a price-per hour you will find yourself being judged and compaired to other trades like lawyers and auto mechanics. You may also find yourself making less money in the end.